teddyearp
Gold Member
But independent, the Arabs never invaded the country of Israel back then.
This is how we end it! (solution)
- Thread starter abi
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Indeependent
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They never got the chance.
P F Tinmore
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The Palestinians should have never gone to Europe and attack the Zionists.
Indeependent
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We already know you're psychotic...please continue to disagree with all 57 Arab nations in the UN.
P F Tinmore
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Nice deflection.
Indeependent
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Fact is deflection?
Are you completely retarded?
Name me one Arab nation in the UN that doesn't give credence to that fact that Israel kicked invading Arab ass in 1948.
But you can't, so you post your usual, and boring, "Nice deflection." bullshit.
How about bringing up that multi hundred page Treaty of Lunacy?
We all know you lost this one so I'll only reply to your occasional lunacy.
P F Tinmore
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What did Lebanon lose?
What did Syria lose?
What did Jordan lose?
What did Egypt lose?
RoccoR
Gold Member
RE: This is how we end it! (solution)
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
This certainly is a good example of the confusion on the matter of decolonization. General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV) (Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples) of 14 December 1960)
Please pay attention.
√ Committee of 24 (Special Committee on Decolonization) √
• Now, if you look at the table produced by Committee 24, you will find that Israel IS NOT listed as a Administering Power for a Non-Self-Governing Territory (NSGT); nor is there any NSGT anywhere near the Middle East, let alone within the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine.
• This Table is the one approved for 2016. The JUNE 2017 Agenda is not going to consider any territory in the confines of the former Mandate of Palestine (or any other place in the Middle East).
•• Agenda for JUNE 2017.
Most Respectfully,
R
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,
This certainly is a good example of the confusion on the matter of decolonization. General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV) (Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples) of 14 December 1960)
Please pay attention.
√ Committee of 24 (Special Committee on Decolonization) √
(COMMENT)
• Now, if you look at the table produced by Committee 24, you will find that Israel IS NOT listed as a Administering Power for a Non-Self-Governing Territory (NSGT); nor is there any NSGT anywhere near the Middle East, let alone within the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine.
• This Table is the one approved for 2016. The JUNE 2017 Agenda is not going to consider any territory in the confines of the former Mandate of Palestine (or any other place in the Middle East).
•• Agenda for JUNE 2017.
- Special Committee on Decolonization Approves Draft Resolution Calling for Argentina, United Kingdom to Resume Talks Over Falkland Islands (Malvinas) Dispute (23 June 2017)
- Special Committee on Decolonization Approves 9 Draft Resolutions, Including Text Calling for Fair Self-Determination Process in French Polynesia (22 June 2017)
- Special Commitee Approves Text Calling on United States to Expedite Puerto Rico’s Self-Determination Process, Welcomes Release of Long-Time Independence Activist (19 June 2017)
- Note to Correspondents: Statement of the Special Committee on Decolonization on the demise of H. E. Miguel D’Escoto Brockmann (16 June 2017)
- Special Committee on Decolonization Adopts 2 Information-Related Draft Resolutions as It Opens 2017 Substantive Session (12 June 2017)
- Special Committee on Decolonization to Hold Caribbean Regional Seminar in Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, 16-18 May (6 April 2017)
- Secretary-General Hails Efforts by Special Committee on Decolonization, while Recalling End of Portugal's Colonial Policies in Africa, Asia (22 February 2017)
- Secretary-General Recounts Portugal’s ‘Totally Absurd’ Colonial Past, while Commending Efforts of Special Committee on Decolonization (22 February 2017)
Most Respectfully,
R
RoccoR
Gold Member
(COMMENT)
You can look up those figures just as well as anyone else. The Table is a little bit too big for here.
• Palestinian Casualties of War •
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
• Or the Synopsis from From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia •
Casualties
Main articles: Israeli casualties of war and Palestinian casualties of war
See also: Killings and massacres during the 1948 Palestine war
Israel lost 6,373 of its people, about 1% of its population at the time, in the war. About 4,000 were soldiers and the rest were civilians.[10] Around 2,000 were Holocaust survivors.[218]
The exact number of Arab casualties is unknown. One estimate places the Arab death toll at 7,000, including 3,000 Palestinians, 2,000 Egyptians, 1,000 Jordanians, and 1,000 Syrians.[103] In 1958, Palestinian historian Aref al-Aref calculated that the Arab armies' combined losses amounted to 3,700, with Egypt losing 961 regular and 200 irregular soldiers and Jordan losing 362 regulars and 200 irregulars. According to Henry Laurens, the Palestinians suffered double the Jewish losses, with 13,000 dead, 1,953 of whom are known to have died in combat situations. Of the remainder, 4,004 remain nameless but the place, tally and date of their death is known, and a further 7,043, for whom only the place of death is known, not their identities nor the date of their death. According to Laurens, the largest part of Palestinian casualties consisted of non-combatants and corresponds to the successful operations of the Israelis.
Most Respectfully,
R
P F Tinmore
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Considering that the denial of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian
people to self-determination, sovereignty, independence and return to
Palestine and the repeated acts of aggression by Israel against the peoples of
the region constitute a serious threat to international peace and security,
3. Reaffirms the inalienable right of the Namibian people, the
Palestinian people and all peoples under foreign and colonial domination to
self-determination, national independence, territorial integrity, national
unity and sovereignty without outside interference;
12. Strongly condemns the continued violations of the human rights of
the peoples still under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation,
the continuation of the illegal occupation of Namibia, and South Africa's
attempts to dismember its Territory, the perpetuation of the racist minority
regime in southern Africa and the denial to the Palestinian people of their
inalienable national rights;
18. Strongly condemns those Governments that do not recognize the right
to self-determination and independence of all peoples still under colonial and
foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably the peoples of Africa and
the Palestinian people;
A/RES/37/43. Importance of the universal realization of the right of peoples to self-determination and of the speedy granting of independence to colonial countries and peoples for the effective guarantee and observance of human rights
P F Tinmore
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Palestine did not have an army. who were those Palestinians who were killed. Not to mention those who were displaced. Why were they attacked?
RoccoR
Gold Member
RE: This is how we end it! (solution)
※→ abi, et al,
I just have to laugh.
In most cases, like ths one, I don't have to d anything but read. Worldwide, everyone knows that the 1514 (XV) claims are baseless.
More importantly, Americans know from experience, that in protracted conflicts, as the number of engagements increases over time, the greater the probability the numbers for potential IHL Violations and Blue-on-Blue incidents will increase. There is no country, that actually engages an armed enemy (as opposed to those that intentionally target innocent civilian, like the Palestinians have since 1967), that can be perfect all the time. There are those that have been around the block a couple of times, that know the difference between Palestinian propaganda coupled with Arab Palestinian incitement to violence - and that of - rational discussions about the real world environment of the hostile terrain.
But I've seen a lot of anti-Israeli tongue waggers that misuse and abuse the intent of charges they call war crimes. So I'm not surprised that your response would be without content.
Most Respectfully,
R
※→ abi, et al,
I just have to laugh.
(COMMENT)
In most cases, like ths one, I don't have to d anything but read. Worldwide, everyone knows that the 1514 (XV) claims are baseless.
More importantly, Americans know from experience, that in protracted conflicts, as the number of engagements increases over time, the greater the probability the numbers for potential IHL Violations and Blue-on-Blue incidents will increase. There is no country, that actually engages an armed enemy (as opposed to those that intentionally target innocent civilian, like the Palestinians have since 1967), that can be perfect all the time. There are those that have been around the block a couple of times, that know the difference between Palestinian propaganda coupled with Arab Palestinian incitement to violence - and that of - rational discussions about the real world environment of the hostile terrain.
But I've seen a lot of anti-Israeli tongue waggers that misuse and abuse the intent of charges they call war crimes. So I'm not surprised that your response would be without content.
Most Respectfully,
R
RoccoR
Gold Member
RE: This is how we end it! (solution)
※→ P F Tinmore, et al
This material is what we call boilerplate.
No one, least of all the Israelis, have denied that Arab Palestinians:
• Inalienable rights
Redundant. Israel does not care what the impact of this is on:
• Namibian people
• Palestinian people
• All peoples under foreign and colonial domination
The effective control (Hague Regulation) over the territories is as directed.
Ambiguous at best, redundant in any case. Just what "denial to the Palestinian people of their inalienable national rights have been denied?
• The Arab Palestinians of the West Bank voted fr annexation. Israel did not deny it.
• The Palestine Liberation Organization, the sole legitimate representative, declared independence in 1988. Israel did not deny it.
All of the preceding snip-its come from the A/RES/37/43 3 December 1982 and published as non-binding 15 years after the fact. And in 1988, after the Jordanians abandon the West Bank into the hands of the Occupying Power (Israel), most of what was said herein, was overtaken by events.
In the Palestinian Declaration of Independence, it said:
I think the PLO said it all, that they had it all. If they don't have it now, where did it go?
Most Respectfully,
R
※→ P F Tinmore, et al
This material is what we call boilerplate.
(COMMENT)
No one, least of all the Israelis, have denied that Arab Palestinians:
• Inalienable rights
√ Just what are (names specifically, not the definition) the inalienable rights that were denied by the Israelis.
• self-determination√ That was never denied. The Israelis don't really care what the Arab Palestinians want to be or where they go, as long as they do not interfere with Israell.
• sovereignty, √ Israel does not care what the supreme powers the Arab Palestinians have. But nothing is going to be handed to them on a silver platter.
• independence √ The Arab Palestinians have declared Independence twice (Sept/48 and Nov/88).
• Return to Palestine√ No denial here. The Arab Palestinians are free to transit the borders of any adjacent country that will permit such travel. Each country, including Israel, has the right to control its borders.
(COMMENT)
Redundant. Israel does not care what the impact of this is on:
• Namibian people
• Palestinian people
• All peoples under foreign and colonial domination
The effective control (Hague Regulation) over the territories is as directed.
(COMMENT)
Ambiguous at best, redundant in any case. Just what "denial to the Palestinian people of their inalienable national rights have been denied?
(COMMENT)
• The Arab Palestinians of the West Bank voted fr annexation. Israel did not deny it.
• The Palestine Liberation Organization, the sole legitimate representative, declared independence in 1988. Israel did not deny it.
(COMMENT)
All of the preceding snip-its come from the A/RES/37/43 3 December 1982 and published as non-binding 15 years after the fact. And in 1988, after the Jordanians abandon the West Bank into the hands of the Occupying Power (Israel), most of what was said herein, was overtaken by events.
In the Palestinian Declaration of Independence, it said:
By virtue of the natural, historical and legal right of the Palestinian Arab people to its homeland, Palestine, and of the sacrifices of its succeeding generations in defence of the freedom and independence of that homeland,
Pursuant to the resolutions of the Arab Summit Conferences and on the basis of the international legitimacy embodied in the resolutions of the United Nations since 1947, and
Through the exercise by the Palestinian Arab people of its right to self-determination, political independence and sovereignty over its territory:
The Palestine National Council hereby declares, in the Name of God and on behalf of the Palestinian Arab people, the establishment of the State of Palestine in the land of Palestine with its capital at Jerusalem.
Pursuant to the resolutions of the Arab Summit Conferences and on the basis of the international legitimacy embodied in the resolutions of the United Nations since 1947, and
Through the exercise by the Palestinian Arab people of its right to self-determination, political independence and sovereignty over its territory:
The Palestine National Council hereby declares, in the Name of God and on behalf of the Palestinian Arab people, the establishment of the State of Palestine in the land of Palestine with its capital at Jerusalem.
I think the PLO said it all, that they had it all. If they don't have it now, where did it go?
Most Respectfully,
R
Humanity
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"boundaries" MUST still be on the table...
That's a nice, simple solution for Israel, maintain the 'status quo' or worse, expand further into 'Greater Israel'.
But to pass the Palestinian 'issue' onto countries OTHER than Israel is ignoring the Palestinian "exodus" and their right of return?
I'm not completely against city states and "trade routes". The issue I would have is that, well, you mention Gaza as a sea port, it is hardly a 'free trade port' is it and these "avenues for commerce and trade" would be very easily 'controlled' by Israel.
It's a rather off-the-wall idea, I like off-the-wall ideas, I just cannot see this one running.
Humanity
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Can you clarify this please?
You have been making this point in a few threads recently and I would like to understand what you mean exactly by "mutual recognition and acceptance".
Humanity
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Where do I sign up?
Humanity
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I think you missed the point that flacaltenn was making...
There is no unified 'Palestinian Authority' looking at finding a peace solution.
Oh, and I don't always see eye to eye with Mr flacaltenn but, on that point he has a very valid point. You cannot have an organisation like Hamas acting as a 'government' for the people when it has nothing much more in it's head other than the destruction of Israel and cares not for it's people. That is NOT a government in my eyes!
Imagine, a unified 'Palestinian Authority' who wants the best for it's people and not for it's charter! Now we would be looking at an opportunity for peace!
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