This Does Not Bode Well For Solar

[Shrimpbox]

Well I make no claims to being more than a layman on the financial front, but I am always interested in information. I receive the Stansberry investment letter and he skewers Elon musk, Tesla, and Solar City. The key points of his attack, and yes it is a financial standpoint, is that solar city and much of tesla is a house of cards. Solar city is not selling their panels outright they are leasing them to homeowners for 20 years.( when they do sell the panels outright they do so at a loss). By doing this solar gets all subsidies from the federal and state govt to support a cash flow which would not be there otherwise. The other lynchpin of solar strategy is that homeowners would help pay for their panels by saving money on their electric bills by selling power back to the utility at RETAIL RATES. Once the electric utilities realized they were buying electricity at exorbitant rates and having to maintain the power grid basically for free for,these customers they reduced the payments for solar panel power. This move caused solar city to close up shop and move out of Nevada altogether, one of the most promising states for sun power. Reducing the payback costs changs the solar panel equation drastically and makes a 30 to 50 thousand dollar investment look like a bad deal. Solar city has been hemorrhaging money with no end in sight, it has become such a Ponzi scheme that just today tesla and solar are fixing to merge. Many investors are blinded by Musks charm and charisma. According to this article even the new lithium batteries are not going to live up to the hype.

What is obvious from this article is that at least rooftop solar on private homes is not viable energy alternative when all is said and done, at,least if Solar City is doing it. The companies debt is in the billions and the finances of the company is being propped up by shady accounting. The company has been increasing revenues but at the same rate they are increasing losses. You cannot separate solar panel success from financial reality. I would love to live in an alternative energy universe, but I also want to live in a transparent universe. Right now home solar power doesn't cut it, and those are just the facts

PS: This is all your fault WW!

 

[IcebergSlim]

I receive the Stansberry investment letter


STOP RIGHT THERE!

Solar Power to Grow Sixfold as Sun Becoming Cheapest Resource

 

[ScienceRocks]

Solar is leading every other energy resource and growing by leaps ahead of everything else, but yet somehow it is fucked in your little mind. lol

 

[depotoo]

Elon Musk called the proposed marriage of Tesla Motors Inc. and SolarCity Corp. a “no brainer,” saying his $2.86 billion plan to combine the companies would benefit both.

Tesla investors didn’t seem so sure. While SolarCity shares rose 16 percent Wednesday in trading before U.S. exchanges opened, Tesla fell 10 percent.

Oppenheimer & Co. analysts including Colin Rusch downgraded Tesla to perform from outperform in a research note published late Tuesday, saying they expect “a robust shareholder fight over this acquisition centered on corporate governance.”

QuickTake Solar Energy

“We believe investors are likely to view this transaction as a bailout for SCTY and a distraction to Tesla’s own production hurdles,” said Rusch in the note.

Credit Suisse Group AG analysts including Patrick Jobin said in a separate note that they expect “resistance from Tesla shareholders” and warned of “many corporate governance challenges.”

Listen to Tesla’s Wednesday conference call on LIVE<GO>.


From bloomberg-
Tesla Takeover of SolarCity Not a ‘No-Brainer’ for All Investors

 

[depotoo]

Musk Buys Musk: Tesla’s SolarCity Deal by the NumbersHe loses half a billion dollars in the process. Is it a bailout or a master plan?



More from bloomberg-
Musk Buys Musk: Tesla’s SolarCity Deal by the Numbers

 

[HenryBHough]

I seem to recall some funmercials for an imaginary "Spatula City". Is "SolarCity" a subsidiary?

 

[GWV5903]

Solar City really? They backed out on deals we sold for them at a price they decided not to honor, we had it in writing from their corporate offices. We made it to the top and they refused to honor the price, bad reputation...

Lot's of Tesla's here in Austin, retail store in The Domain is nice, sales personnel?

I am fine with Solar Power, but it is not economical without huge GOV intensives, still has a long way to go before it will...

 

[Old Rocks]

So, you buy yourself a Tesla. Now you have a very fast luxury car. You also have an electrical storage system that can store 70 kw/hr to 90 kw/hr. Now if you work from home, or drive another car to work, that means that during the day a solar charging system could be charging the vehicle as well as supplying the house with power. And at night, the house can run off the car. Of course, if you are planning a trip, then you had best run off the grid at night, or have a backup battery system for the house. All available through Tesla. Not a bad system at all.

 

[william the wie]

Back in the 70s the L-5 Society was able to demonstrate that space based solar even using the shuttle would be cheaper than ground based solar..The implicit price has continued to go down but harvesting the solar wind for HE3 is an even cheaper energy source.

 

[Shrimpbox]

Slim, I read your article a couple of times. They are talking about commercial billion dollar solar arrays. That may be feasible. The article also cites second tier countries as the most likely places for solar. Many like Israel have no oil resources, although Russia and Mexico and Brazil certainly do. There was no mention of,China, the us, or Western Europe.

So it seems as if freedom from the grid and the individualism of power generation is not so close to reality. There are also reports in this country of giant solar farm fails. Maybe these are temporary, maybe not, but the idea that solar panels on everyone's house are going to be,the model t of the energy revolution is still a pipe dream.

Well rocks I guess if you can afford a 90 thousand dollar tesla and a 30 thousand dollar solar array and still be hooked up to the grid, I guess you can feel smug about your station in society. Of course after three years you can trade your tesla in for 50 grand and pay for the solar panels. Once again this only works for the very rich.

 

[waltky]

Mebbe Musk could merge the two technologies...

... an' come out with a solar-powered car...

... dat'll go 200mph.

 

[HenryBHough]

Let a smile be your umbrella on a rainy, rainy day.

Let a candle light your darkness on a dreary, cloudy day.

After the battery has died, of course.

Aren't those two first lines the way the song began?

 

[Old Rocks]

Slim, I read your article a couple of times. They are talking about commercial billion dollar solar arrays. That may be feasible. The article also cites second tier countries as the most likely places for solar. Many like Israel have no oil resources, although Russia and Mexico and Brazil certainly do. There was no mention of,China, the us, or Western Europe.

So it seems as if freedom from the grid and the individualism of power generation is not so close to reality. There are also reports in this country of giant solar farm fails. Maybe these are temporary, maybe not, but the idea that solar panels on everyone's house are going to be,the model t of the energy revolution is still a pipe dream.

Well rocks I guess if you can afford a 90 thousand dollar tesla and a 30 thousand dollar solar array and still be hooked up to the grid, I guess you can feel smug about your station in society. Of course after three years you can trade your tesla in for 50 grand and pay for the solar panels. Once again this only works for the very rich.

No, the system would not cost 30K. You can get a complete 10 kw system for about half that. And, by being grid tie, you can contribute to the grid when you are not using the power. Even at wholesale prices, that will knock quite a bit off your grid bill. In fact, as the prices of solar continue to come down, and the costs of utility electricity continues to increase, add in grid scale batteries, and homeowners solar grid tied could become a major source of generation on the gird.

 

[Old Rocks]

Mebbe Musk could merge the two technologies...

... an' come out with a solar-powered car...

... dat'll go 200mph.

Don't need a car that will go 200 mph. But it would be fun to have a luxury sedan that handled well, and could beat Ferrari's and Dodge Hellcats to the legal limit. Damned adolescent male hormones just don't go away! LOL

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Solar is leading every other energy resource and growing by leaps ahead of everything else, but yet somehow it is fucked in your little mind. lol

Why are German electricity costs rising?

 

[Old Rocks]

No storage.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

No storage.

I guess solar and wind aren't cheaper.

 

[Old Rocks]

They most definately will be with storage. And that storage is available right now, and being installed as we post.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

They most definately will be with storage. And that storage is available right now, and being installed as we post.

Yeah, it'll be yuuuuge.

 

[Old Rocks]

That it will.