Thinking Ahead.....tuition Free Higher Education

[flacaltenn]

Germany has returned to a policy of tuition free universities.

Germany Free college education for everyone Tuition unjust -- Society s Child -- Sott.net

Smart. This is an investment with great returns for the citizenry.

We ought to be doing the same thing.

Sounds like Socialism

Higher education should be reserved for those who can afford it....it is the American way

No excuses.. You can get a 1/2 tuition waiver with Lottery funds even in a "backwards" Red State like my Tennessee if you can keep a B average. In California, you can get a 2 year degree for the cost of owning cable and cell phone. No WAY I would want to do more than that for people who insist on wasting their parent's money. It's a proposal that ALL those bitter Liberal Arts students amongst us just love..

I know...because American students are just like their parents. dumb and lazy and looking for a handout

It is a cornerstone of the Republican platform

Always nice to hear from the Partisan Rabble.

Thanks

Not only are American College students lazy, but they take majors that nobody wants to hire.....French literature, basket weaving and "liberal arts"

Rush Limbaugh told me so

They sure as hell are not opting for the hard stuff. I can hardly find an American kid in a graduate engineering program. I know this for a fact. They all wanna be MBAs because you got to be the boss who doesnt have a clue as to how the product actually works...

 

[Rikurzhen]

Sounds like Socialism

Higher education should be reserved for those who can afford it....it is the American way

No excuses.. You can get a 1/2 tuition waiver with Lottery funds even in a "backwards" Red State like my Tennessee if you can keep a B average. In California, you can get a 2 year degree for the cost of owning cable and cell phone. No WAY I would want to do more than that for people who insist on wasting their parent's money. It's a proposal that ALL those bitter Liberal Arts students amongst us just love..

I know...because American students are just like their parents. dumb and lazy and looking for a handout

It is a cornerstone of the Republican platform

Always nice to hear from the Partisan Rabble.

Thanks

Not only are American College students lazy, but they take majors that nobody wants to hire.....French literature, basket weaving and "liberal arts"

Rush Limbaugh told me so

They sure as hell are not opting for the hard stuff. I can hardly find an American kid in a graduate engineering program. I know this for a fact. They all wanna be MBAs because you got to be the boss who doesnt have a clue as to how the product actually works...

Smart adults look at the data available to them. STEM talent is being imported and this cuts off career progression as well as inhibiting salary growth, meanwhile careers anchored in cultural literacy, such as marketing and PR are doing well.

I'm not disagreeing with you but I understand why this is happening. A typical career needs upwards progression - an engineer can start and then when he progresses and earns more he becomes too expensive to keep on and is let go when replaced by a Chinese engineer or an Iranian engineer hired for less.

Short term gain for the employer equals long term disruption in the labor pipeline.

 

[Carla_Danger]

Germany has returned to a policy of tuition free universities.

Germany Free college education for everyone Tuition unjust -- Society s Child -- Sott.net

Smart. This is an investment with great returns for the citizenry.

We ought to be doing the same thing.

 

[Carla_Danger]

Yes

Let's teach our children that nothing is really worth working for.

Actually, it would level the playing field somewhat. We need a healthy, educated, country to succeed. It would give youngsters a chance to start out without being in debt, and would help our economy.

 

[flacaltenn]

They sure as hell are not opting for the hard stuff. I can hardly find an American kid in a graduate engineering program. I know this for a fact. They all wanna be MBAs because you got to be the boss who doesnt have a clue as to how the product actually works...

Smart adults look at the data available to them. STEM talent is being imported and this cuts off career progression as well as inhibiting salary growth, meanwhile careers anchored in cultural literacy, such as marketing and PR are doing well.

I'm not disagreeing with you but I understand why this is happening. A typical career needs upwards progression - an engineer can start and then when he progresses and earns more he becomes too expensive to keep on and is let go when replaced by a Chinese engineer or an Iranian engineer hired for less.

Short term gain for the employer equals long term disruption in the labor pipeline.

Depends on your conviction. If you hang out on the edge where business and academia meet -- you'll not have to worry about being replaced by "cheaper" labor. Used to be that in places like Silicon Valley, the start-up rate was high enough to where MOST engineers could eventually move up. Our rate of start-ups and REAL IPOs has tanked.

No one wants to take on the overhead and baggage required to build their dream products anymore.

And companies dont' have the attention span that they used to. Where they knew what business they were in and fought to RETAIN expertise in science and engineering. If we don't revive the tech sector -- this country is gonna rapidly become IRRELEVENT in the Global marketplace.

 

[Rikurzhen]

They sure as hell are not opting for the hard stuff. I can hardly find an American kid in a graduate engineering program. I know this for a fact. They all wanna be MBAs because you got to be the boss who doesnt have a clue as to how the product actually works...

Smart adults look at the data available to them. STEM talent is being imported and this cuts off career progression as well as inhibiting salary growth, meanwhile careers anchored in cultural literacy, such as marketing and PR are doing well.

I'm not disagreeing with you but I understand why this is happening. A typical career needs upwards progression - an engineer can start and then when he progresses and earns more he becomes too expensive to keep on and is let go when replaced by a Chinese engineer or an Iranian engineer hired for less.

Short term gain for the employer equals long term disruption in the labor pipeline.

Depends on your conviction. If you hang out on the edge where business and academia meet -- you'll not have to worry about being replaced by "cheaper" labor.

I know from experience that this is a good place to be situated, but I also recognize that where I sit is very unique and my concern isn't for myself but for society because I saw programming and other talent have thier career ladders being cut. High demand for top level people and then outsourcing to code monkeys which did a lot of damage to entry level and then intermediate level career positions on the ladder. How do you develop people ready for the high levels when you shut the valve on the pipeline?

Used to be that in places like Silicon Valley, the start-up rate was high enough to where MOST engineers could eventually move up. Our rate of start-ups and REAL IPOs has tanked.

Why do you think all the tech players are so keen on H1-B visas and immigration reform? Cheaper to import talent than to develop talent. To lure Americans into the field the prospective employees need to see a future for advancement, instead they see mid-career talent having to train their imported replacements before being sent to pasture and they finding new work at age 50+ is near impossible and so the work that it taken up means a slide down the ladder instead of continuing upwards or laterally.

No one wants to take on the overhead and baggage required to build their dream products anymore.

Exactly.

And companies dont' have the attention span that they used to. Where they knew what business they were in and fought to RETAIN expertise in science and engineering. If we don't revive the tech sector -- this country is gonna rapidly become IRRELEVENT in the Global marketplace.

I think we're on the same page.

 

[Bush92]

Germany has returned to a policy of tuition free universities.

Germany Free college education for everyone Tuition unjust -- Society s Child -- Sott.net

Smart. This is an investment with great returns for the citizenry.

We ought to be doing the same thing.

Sounds like Socialism

Higher education should be reserved for those who can afford it....it is the American way

No excuses.. You can get a 1/2 tuition waiver with Lottery funds even in a "backwards" Red State like my Tennessee if you can keep a B average. In California, you can get a 2 year degree for the cost of owning cable and cell phone. No WAY I would want to do more than that for people who insist on wasting their parent's money. It's a proposal that ALL those bitter Liberal Arts students amongst us just love..

I know...because American students are just like their parents. dumb and lazy and looking for a handout

It is a cornerstone of the Republican platform

Always nice to hear from the Partisan Rabble.

Thanks

Not only are American College students lazy, but they take majors that nobody wants to hire.....French literature, basket weaving and "liberal arts"

Rush Limbaugh told me so

You mean like "communications" or "leisure activities" majors? Yeah, it's true. People have these useless majors.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Germany has returned to a policy of tuition free universities.

Germany Free college education for everyone Tuition unjust -- Society s Child -- Sott.net

Smart. This is an investment with great returns for the citizenry.

We ought to be doing the same thing.

If brainless lefties love the Nordic countries so much then why don't they concoct some plans for ethnically cleansing the US so that we can duplicate the racial homogeneity of the Nordic countries?

We can kill two birds with that same stone, that smarmy silhouette man can show us how well the Nordic countries fare when we send them all of our black and Hispanic citizens.

And for the brainless lefties just stop comparing 98% white Finland with the multicultural United States and instead compare the multicultural US to other great multicultural nations, like the (former) Soviet Union and Yugoslavia and to historical predecessors like the Ottoman Empire and the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

Comparing the Nordic region of 26,000,000 citizens (the population of Texas) to the giant population of the US makes you guys look freaking clueless.

Look morons, you chose, you actively fought to bring about multiculturalism by lying to the public about your plans. You've succeeded in imposing this hell on us. By choosing multiculturalism you have forever closed the door on the prospect of transforming us into a high-sharing society like the Nordic countries. You made your choice, you inflicted this on us, now shut the fuck up about wanting what is impossible to deliver.

 

[Samson]

Yes

Let's teach our children that nothing is really worth working for.

Actually, it would level the playing field somewhat. We need a healthy, educated, country to succeed. It would give youngsters a chance to start out without being in debt, and would help our economy.

Just curious.

How economically successful has Finland become?

 

[Samson]

Sounds like Socialism

Higher education should be reserved for those who can afford it....it is the American way

No excuses.. You can get a 1/2 tuition waiver with Lottery funds even in a "backwards" Red State like my Tennessee if you can keep a B average. In California, you can get a 2 year degree for the cost of owning cable and cell phone. No WAY I would want to do more than that for people who insist on wasting their parent's money. It's a proposal that ALL those bitter Liberal Arts students amongst us just love..

I know...because American students are just like their parents. dumb and lazy and looking for a handout

It is a cornerstone of the Republican platform

Always nice to hear from the Partisan Rabble.

Thanks

Not only are American College students lazy, but they take majors that nobody wants to hire.....French literature, basket weaving and "liberal arts"

Rush Limbaugh told me so

They sure as hell are not opting for the hard stuff. I can hardly find an American kid in a graduate engineering program. I know this for a fact. They all wanna be MBAs because you got to be the boss who doesnt have a clue as to how the product actually works...

On the other hand, I've met plenty of unemployed engineers. Oil prices drop, car manufacturer has a bad year, NASA cuts their budget, and these very highly trained specialists find themselves on the streets.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Germany has returned to a policy of tuition free universities.

Germany Free college education for everyone Tuition unjust -- Society s Child -- Sott.net

Smart. This is an investment with great returns for the citizenry.

We ought to be doing the same thing.

You can already learn nearly everything taught in universities for free

 

[Samson]

Germany has returned to a policy of tuition free universities.

Germany Free college education for everyone Tuition unjust -- Society s Child -- Sott.net

Smart. This is an investment with great returns for the citizenry.

We ought to be doing the same thing.

You can already learn nearly everything taught in universities for free

But you cannot prove it. Or better put, unless someone tests whether or not you know something, then you cannot prove it is something that has been learned.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Germany has returned to a policy of tuition free universities.

Germany Free college education for everyone Tuition unjust -- Society s Child -- Sott.net

Smart. This is an investment with great returns for the citizenry.

We ought to be doing the same thing.

You can already learn nearly everything taught in universities for free

But you cannot prove it. Or better put, unless someone tests whether or not you know something, then you cannot prove it is something that has been learned.

A degree is not proof either.

You have no idea if a person skated by being graded on a curve or if they actually learned the material.

People aren't allowed to flunk out anymore as long as they pay their tuition

 

[Samson]

Germany has returned to a policy of tuition free universities.

Germany Free college education for everyone Tuition unjust -- Society s Child -- Sott.net

Smart. This is an investment with great returns for the citizenry.

We ought to be doing the same thing.

You can already learn nearly everything taught in universities for free

But you cannot prove it. Or better put, unless someone tests whether or not you know something, then you cannot prove it is something that has been learned.

A degree is not proof either.

You have no idea if a person skated by being graded on a curve or if they actually learned the material.

People aren't allowed to flunk out anymore as long as they pay their tuition

Agreed. But the degree is better than nothing.

Disagree that people "aren't allowed to flunk out." The graduation rate for HS is about 80% max. The graduation rates for universities is often less.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Germany has returned to a policy of tuition free universities.

Germany Free college education for everyone Tuition unjust -- Society s Child -- Sott.net

Smart. This is an investment with great returns for the citizenry.

We ought to be doing the same thing.

You can already learn nearly everything taught in universities for free

But you cannot prove it. Or better put, unless someone tests whether or not you know something, then you cannot prove it is something that has been learned.

A degree is not proof either.

You have no idea if a person skated by being graded on a curve or if they actually learned the material.

People aren't allowed to flunk out anymore as long as they pay their tuition

Agreed. But the degree is better than nothing.

Disagree that people "aren't allowed to flunk out." The graduation rate for HS is about 80% max. The graduation rates for universities is often less.

Graduation rate and people who are told they can't come back because of poor grades are 2 completely different stats.

There will always be a lower graduation rate than enrollment rate. Most if not all of that difference is due to the choice to discontinue school not that a school refused to continue enrollment because of poor performance.

 

[Samson]

Germany has returned to a policy of tuition free universities.

Germany Free college education for everyone Tuition unjust -- Society s Child -- Sott.net

Smart. This is an investment with great returns for the citizenry.

We ought to be doing the same thing.

You can already learn nearly everything taught in universities for free

But you cannot prove it. Or better put, unless someone tests whether or not you know something, then you cannot prove it is something that has been learned.

A degree is not proof either.

You have no idea if a person skated by being graded on a curve or if they actually learned the material.

People aren't allowed to flunk out anymore as long as they pay their tuition

Agreed. But the degree is better than nothing.

Disagree that people "aren't allowed to flunk out." The graduation rate for HS is about 80% max. The graduation rates for universities is often less.

Graduation rate and people who are told they can't come back because of poor grades are 2 completely different stats.

There will always be a lower graduation rate than enrollment rate. Most if not all of that difference is due to the choice to discontinue school not that a school refused to continue enrollment because of poor performance.

Yes there are people that leave school for reasons that have nothing to do with their grades, but that doesn't mean no one is "allowed to flunk out" or that the vast majority that do not graduate left because of extenuating circumstances having nothing to do with failing grades.

Many fail.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Germany has returned to a policy of tuition free universities.

Germany Free college education for everyone Tuition unjust -- Society s Child -- Sott.net

Smart. This is an investment with great returns for the citizenry.

We ought to be doing the same thing.

Because more people with degrees that don't get them well paying jobs is a good idea????

More people with education is always a good idea. Well paying jobs isnt their fault now is it...Sounds like an argument to raise wages oooorrrrrr complain about low wages and be PRO keeping those wages low

Why do we need plumbers and IT guys with degrees in basketweaving?

Nice fucking strawman there.

There is literally no down side to a more educated public.

Apply some critical thinking to that last statement and get back to Me when you come up with a better answer.

Get back to me when you can address it directly

 

[Unkotare]

Germany has returned to a policy of tuition free universities.

Germany Free college education for everyone Tuition unjust -- Society s Child -- Sott.net

Smart. This is an investment with great returns for the citizenry.

We ought to be doing the same thing.

Absolutely not.

 

[Carla_Danger]

Yes

Let's teach our children that nothing is really worth working for.

Actually, it would level the playing field somewhat. We need a healthy, educated, country to succeed. It would give youngsters a chance to start out without being in debt, and would help our economy.

Just curious.

How economically successful has Finland become?

Why don't you fucking read something? Actually Finland is doing quite well.

How are we doing, is the better question. Right now we rank somewhere are #35 in mathematics, but we're number 1 in incarceration.

Where's my flag? I want to wave it.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Germany has returned to a policy of tuition free universities.

Germany Free college education for everyone Tuition unjust -- Society s Child -- Sott.net

Smart. This is an investment with great returns for the citizenry.

We ought to be doing the same thing.

Because more people with degrees that don't get them well paying jobs is a good idea????

More people with education is always a good idea. Well paying jobs isnt their fault now is it...Sounds like an argument to raise wages oooorrrrrr complain about low wages and be PRO keeping those wages low

Why do we need plumbers and IT guys with degrees in basketweaving?

Nice fucking strawman there.

There is literally no down side to a more educated public.

Yes there is. If you cannot find them employment up to the level of their education, its a waste, they feel underutilized, underpaid, and you end up with conflict.

Unlike the conflict now right? I mean heres the two sides:

1. Take out student loans and everyone who wants a better education is crushed with debt but they are educated. Those will be the job creators if they can get free from debt.
or
2. Students go for free, not crushed by loans and even if they dont find something in their field they still wont be ass raped by loans. Additionally, those will be the future job creators

If the education was only directed towards knowledge society needs it would be one thing, but we can only have so many marketing, womyn's studies, and communications majors.

I notice you keep skipping over all the other majors as if every major is a waste. What we are talking about here is not WHAT IS A SMART MAJOR. We're talking about the benefit of having a better educated public.

I swear this is a fucking silly ass topic. "Whats so good about a better educated citizenry?"