Quasar44
Diamond Member
The Palestinians have a population in EJ but it appears that Jews actually bought this land several decades ago and now It’s going to the Israeli SC ??
Am I getting this correct ??
Am I getting this correct ??
Things getting crazy in East Jerusalem??
- Thread starter Quasar44
- Start date
ReinyDays
Gold Member
What is the basis for this entitlement? ... the International agreement was to split the city into Jewish and Arab sections ... Israel only occupies the entire city today ... too many terrorist attacks coming from East Jerusalem ...
It's a bad situation and it's been a bad situation for a very long time ... I'm afraid the solution will come after someone nukes the place ...
ReinyDays
Gold Member
No idea what a "nuclear tripod" is ... will it stop Iranian nukes from landing? ...
Sunni Man
Diamond Member
ReinyDays
Gold Member
It’s worsened since Biden became potus.
Worst than 79 AD under the Romans? ... a few rocket attacks compared to diaspora ... trust me, this affair goes back a very long time ...
georgephillip
Diamond Member
Doesn't that depend on the legality of Israel's occupation of East Jerusalem?
East Jerusalem - Wikipedia
"David Ben-Gurion presented his party's assertion that 'Jewish Jerusalem is an organic, inseparable part of the State of Israel' in December 1949,[5] and Jordan annexed East Jerusalem the following year.[6][7]
"These decisions were confirmed respectively in the Israeli Knesset in January 1950 and the Jordanian Parliament in April 1950.[8]
"When occupied by Israel after the 1967 Six-Day War, East Jerusalem, with expanded borders, came under direct Israeli rule, though, according to Ian Lustick, never formally annexed.[d]
"In a unanimous General Assembly resolution, the United Nations declared the measures changing the status of the city to be invalid.[11]"
more than correct. Jews had an established THRIVING community in East Jerusalem. The muzzies did the MUZZIE thing-----they isolated that part of the city and imposed a STARVATION SIEGE.
Historically ----starvation siege of civilian populations is a very prevalent muzzie tool of
CONQUEST FOR THE GLORY OF ALLAH---and the pleasure of sharmootahs. Remember the Biafran Christians? The Hindus of East Pakistan? In fact the KURDS are Berbers UP IN THE HILLS
who long ago ------ran to the hills to escape Muzzie barbarity (berbers is north african and parts
of Asia native peoples.
RoccoR
Gold Member
RE: Things Getting Crazy in East Jerusalem??
SUBTOPIC: Legality of Israel's Occupation of East Jerusalem?
⁜→ georgephillip, Quasar 44, et al,
(NOT TO BE A WISE-ASS) I need to know what defines:
PREFACE:
Is there a universally accepted regime as to what defines or makes these distinctions?
Teach me.
Article 42 Hague Regulation: Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army.
The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.
Article 43 Hague Regulation: The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter shall take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety, while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country.
PART 3.
GENERAL PRINCIPLES OF CRIMINAL LAW
Article 22 Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court
Nullum crimen sine lege
I often hear this terminology/phraseology "illegal occupation" or the "legality of the occupation." But I don't know what it actually means? Many talk about the extension of "effective control." Others talk about the "the legal obligations that the status of an occupying
power entails." (If you comply with these obligations then the occupation is somehow "illegal.")
Now there might be some competing adjacent ideas that impact your consideration.
When we say "Palestinian Territories" what exactly do we mean. If we say Occupied Germany we are talking about one sovereign power occupying the territory of another sovereign power. This is the application of Article 42 when - a territory is placed under the authority of the hostile army. So, in 1967, who was the sovereign power over these territories and when did they assume sovereign authority?
Only "States" can enter into treaties (international agreement concluded between States • Article 2 Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties). So up and until December 2012, "Palestine was NOT identified as a state or a country NOR could its authority be identified as a government." (UN Under-Secretary-General for Legal Affairs). So when did the presence of the IDF in the West Bank or Jerusalem become a foreign Army occupying a foreign state?
Does the Peace Treaty between Israel and Jordan (1994) that establishes the permanent, secure and recognized international boundary between Jordan and Israel (Article 3 - International Boundary) have an impact on the status of the undefined occupations?
These are just a few of my questions on my confusion with these issues ("illegal occupation" - vs - "legality of the occupation") on the Question of Palestine.
(The BIG Question)
Who has the right to determine the correct answers?
Most Respectfully,
R
SUBTOPIC: Legality of Israel's Occupation of East Jerusalem?
⁜→ georgephillip, Quasar 44, et al,
(NOT TO BE A WISE-ASS) I need to know what defines:
• A legal Occupation?
• As distinguished from a defined "Illegal" Occupation?
PREFACE:
Is there a universally accepted regime as to what defines or makes these distinctions?
Teach me.
(REFERENCES)
Article 42 Hague Regulation: Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army.
The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.
Article 43 Hague Regulation: The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter shall take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety, while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country.
PART 3.
GENERAL PRINCIPLES OF CRIMINAL LAW
Article 22 Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court
Nullum crimen sine lege
- A person shall not be criminally responsible under this Statute unless the conduct in question constitutes, at the time it takes place, a crime within the jurisdiction of the Court.
- The definition of a crime shall be strictly construed and shall not be extended by analogy. In case of ambiguity, the definition shall be interpreted in favour of the person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted.
- This article shall not affect the characterization of any conduct as criminal under international law independently of this Statute.
I often hear this terminology/phraseology "illegal occupation" or the "legality of the occupation." But I don't know what it actually means? Many talk about the extension of "effective control." Others talk about the "the legal obligations that the status of an occupying
power entails." (If you comply with these obligations then the occupation is somehow "illegal.")
Now there might be some competing adjacent ideas that impact your consideration.
When we say "Palestinian Territories" what exactly do we mean. If we say Occupied Germany we are talking about one sovereign power occupying the territory of another sovereign power. This is the application of Article 42 when - a territory is placed under the authority of the hostile army. So, in 1967, who was the sovereign power over these territories and when did they assume sovereign authority?
Only "States" can enter into treaties (international agreement concluded between States • Article 2 Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties). So up and until December 2012, "Palestine was NOT identified as a state or a country NOR could its authority be identified as a government." (UN Under-Secretary-General for Legal Affairs). So when did the presence of the IDF in the West Bank or Jerusalem become a foreign Army occupying a foreign state?
Does the Peace Treaty between Israel and Jordan (1994) that establishes the permanent, secure and recognized international boundary between Jordan and Israel (Article 3 - International Boundary) have an impact on the status of the undefined occupations?
• The treaty boundary encompasses the West Bank and Jerusalem, within the sovereignty of Israel.
• The international boundary was established without prejudice to the status of any territories that came under Israeli military government control in 1967.
• The boundary was established with no variance from the 1988 severance of all Jordan's administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank.
These are just a few of my questions on my confusion with these issues ("illegal occupation" - vs - "legality of the occupation") on the Question of Palestine.
(The BIG Question)
Who has the right to determine the correct answers?
Most Respectfully,
R
TDontTouchMyCigars
Gold Member
- Jan 27, 2020
- 280
- 183
- 178
Why would it even be legit? My ancestors had land at JERUSALEM [ no east, no west ] long before 48'.
Why would I even care about what the EU or the UN say? they have no legitimacy to rule here
RoccoR
Gold Member
RE: Things Getting Crazy in East Jerusalem??
SUBTOPIC: Legitimacy in Jerusalem?
⁜→ TDontTouchMyCigar, et al,
[qoute="TDontTouchMyCigar"]
Why would it even be legit? My ancestors had land at JERUSALEM [ no east, no west ] long before 48'.
[/quote]
(COMMENT)
Yes, that could quite possibly be true. BUT, land ownership (Civil Law Personal Property) has nothing to do with Sovereignty over Territorial Integrity (Supreme authority within a State).
Prior to May 1948 Palestine, the territory formerly administered under the Mandate, was a "legal entity" but it is NOT a sovereign state. Palestine was a territory administered under the mandate by the United Kingdom (UK). The UK was entirely responsible both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs. This had nothing to do with personal property and types of ownership. (See: A/AC.21/UK/42. 25 February 1948)
Furthermore (See Excerpt of UN Legal Affairs Memo DEC 2012):
KEY POINT: Before 2012, Palestine was NOT a "State" or "Country."
[qoute="TDontTouchMyCigar"]
Why would I even care about what the EU or the UN say? they have no legitimacy to rule here.
[/quote]
(COMMENT)
Well, the EU is a post-1993 entity (Successor to the European Community) and is a geo-political entity and not a State in itself. It cannot govern any territory. The EU is stitched together by treaties and other international agreements for which only "states" may enter into.
The UN is also a near-global • geo-political entity stitched together by treaties and other international agreements. In 1945, on the creation of the UN, Chapter XII: International Trusteeship System • Article 77, territories held under mandate were placed under by means of trusteeship agreements. When the Arab Higher Committee rejected participation in the establishment of self-governing institutions, in preparation for independence, that was a key turn in the political path for the Arab Palestinians. Needless to say, that rejection set the conditions for the Arab League to occupy and take control over those territories. The Gaza Strip fell under the Egyptian Military Governorship and the West Bank was annexed by the Hashemite Kingdom.
Nowhere, in the political timeline of the territories, did the actual control of government for its internal administration or foreign affairs come into the hands of Arab Palestinian sovereignty.
(∑)
Israel is, wherever it exercises its sovereign authority. Israel did not take sovereign territory from the Arab Palestinians. The Jordanians politically abandon the West Bank and Jerusalem in July 1988; leaving it in the hands of the Israelis. This is not so dissimilar to the pattern which has been exhibited by China in the South China Sea where they constructed an Island to establish their presence (2017); and (much more recently) in the Kingdom of Bhutan (2020), where the Chinese constructed a town where there was none before. Similarly, the Russian Federation just took Crimea (annexed Feb 2014).
Most Respectfully,
R
.
SUBTOPIC: Legitimacy in Jerusalem?
⁜→ TDontTouchMyCigar, et al,
[qoute="TDontTouchMyCigar"]
Why would it even be legit? My ancestors had land at JERUSALEM [ no east, no west ] long before 48'.
[/quote]
(COMMENT)
Yes, that could quite possibly be true. BUT, land ownership (Civil Law Personal Property) has nothing to do with Sovereignty over Territorial Integrity (Supreme authority within a State).
Prior to May 1948 Palestine, the territory formerly administered under the Mandate, was a "legal entity" but it is NOT a sovereign state. Palestine was a territory administered under the mandate by the United Kingdom (UK). The UK was entirely responsible both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs. This had nothing to do with personal property and types of ownership. (See: A/AC.21/UK/42. 25 February 1948)
Furthermore (See Excerpt of UN Legal Affairs Memo DEC 2012):
KEY POINT: Before 2012, Palestine was NOT a "State" or "Country."
[qoute="TDontTouchMyCigar"]
Why would I even care about what the EU or the UN say? they have no legitimacy to rule here.
[/quote]
(COMMENT)
Well, the EU is a post-1993 entity (Successor to the European Community) and is a geo-political entity and not a State in itself. It cannot govern any territory. The EU is stitched together by treaties and other international agreements for which only "states" may enter into.
The UN is also a near-global • geo-political entity stitched together by treaties and other international agreements. In 1945, on the creation of the UN, Chapter XII: International Trusteeship System • Article 77, territories held under mandate were placed under by means of trusteeship agreements. When the Arab Higher Committee rejected participation in the establishment of self-governing institutions, in preparation for independence, that was a key turn in the political path for the Arab Palestinians. Needless to say, that rejection set the conditions for the Arab League to occupy and take control over those territories. The Gaza Strip fell under the Egyptian Military Governorship and the West Bank was annexed by the Hashemite Kingdom.
Nowhere, in the political timeline of the territories, did the actual control of government for its internal administration or foreign affairs come into the hands of Arab Palestinian sovereignty.
(∑)
Israel is, wherever it exercises its sovereign authority. Israel did not take sovereign territory from the Arab Palestinians. The Jordanians politically abandon the West Bank and Jerusalem in July 1988; leaving it in the hands of the Israelis. This is not so dissimilar to the pattern which has been exhibited by China in the South China Sea where they constructed an Island to establish their presence (2017); and (much more recently) in the Kingdom of Bhutan (2020), where the Chinese constructed a town where there was none before. Similarly, the Russian Federation just took Crimea (annexed Feb 2014).
Most Respectfully,
R
.
Quas----sorry ---but you don't understand DA HOLEY KORAN and the glorious
Shariah law which is derived therefrom. JOOOOS don't own anything in the
glorious world of muzzie. On the most basic level----it is the LOCAL IMAM
PIG that owns everything. But there is a "contract" which is known as
DHIMMIA. usually translated as "PROTECTED STATUS"---it is INDEED
such a status------just like the "PROTECTED STATUS" by which payoff to the
"GODFATHER" is established. I am telling you the actual very basic issue for
the situation for NON-MUSLIMS in the entire world of which muslims are
VERY PROUD. Be aware--- "IMAM" is an honorific title which does not apply
only to the jerk who screams ----ailallalal ---on the minaret-----it is applied
to HONORABLE godfather type figures. In the shit-hole country in which
my hubby was born even the KING was called the "IMAM" The contract
afford a "right" for non muslims to live if they follow all the rules. The
Jizya payment is the least of it. What it really means is that the IMAM representing
ALLAH and his rapist pal MO, OWNS IT ALL and can claim it for any contrived
reason-----including your wife and kids. In the muzzie world the concept of JOOOS
gaining ownership of land by PURCHASE has no validity at all-----the land is, was and
will always be MUZZIE LAND. The system WORKS ----it is very logical ----
in an internal kinda way
DudleySmith
Diamond Member
- Dec 21, 2020
- 22,369
- 15,932
- 2,288
Biden isn't weak, like Obama he just loves Iranian Mullahs and Arab terrorists, is all; they have a lot on common with Democrats.
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