They died to Free blacks from slavery

[katsteve2012]

How about we all agree that most of the people who fought in the civil war DID NOT JOIN UP BECAUSE OF SOME SORT OF NOBLE MOTIVATION TO FREE BLACK SLAVES. --------I am willing. Long ago----some idiot
southern Baptist told me that americans joined the military
during world war II----for the PURPOSE OF SAVING DA JOOOS. NOPE----same stupidity

Finally some sense. As one who attended elementary school many decades prior to the information age, when everything was taught from outdated history books that by design excluded the accomplishments of most minorities, one of the first lies that I remember being taught in the 3rd grade was that the "Great Emancipator" really cared about the condition of the poor slaves, and made it his mission to set them free. Therefore all black people owed a debt of gratitude for his heroic, humanitarian deed."

When I repeated that lie to my parents they promptly sat me down and told me the real truth.

That truth is simple, and supporting evidence regarding true beliefs is out there for anyone who possesses the mental acuity to read and comprehend actual facts as opposed urban legends.

The common, uneducated, gullible explanation is that the Civil War was fought over the moral issue of slavery, when in fact, it was the economics of slavery and political control of that system that was central to the conflict. It was primarily about business.

Had Lincoln lived, he would have relocated the slaves out of America, after they were supposedly "free", exactly as some of the retarded Stormfront groupies here say he should have.

Are you more pissed at the gadfly or the outcome of the end of slavery?

Actually I am.not pissed about anything. I just prefer accurate accounts of history.

 

[Taz]

If the Civil War wasn't partly about freeing the slaves then why were they freed?

 

[protectionist]

Until the 1830s, free blacks were barred from most abolitionist societies. But that has not stopped Davis from emphasizing their centrality to the abolition movement, beginning when it got off the ground in the 1780s. Free blacks combated claims of their inferiority when they became eloquent spokespeople for themselves, as in the case of Phillis Wheatley’s poetry from the revolutionary era. Davis goes against a recent emphasis on the humanity of slaves, however, when he stresses the dehumanization inherent in chattel slavery. Slaveholders took the same whips, chains, buying, selling and breeding techniques they developed for animals, and applied them to slaves. Slavery was as much a psychological form of torture as it was a physical one, with masters trying to make their slaves actually think they were beasts. Robert Burns, a slave freed after the Civil War, remembered his master telling him that “*******…couldn’t go to heaven any more than could a dog.”


Davis does not shy away from the negative consequences this animalization has had on black self-esteem, even to this day. We hear from Barack Obama, in a quote take from Dreams of Our Father, where he expresses surprise at the self-loathing that still persists within the black community: “What are you so surprised about,” a black man says to a young and confused Obama, “that black people still hate themselves?” Davis’s main point, however, is not that slavery destroyed blacks’ self-esteem; it’s that blacks managed to overcome it. To explain how they did so, he goes back to Haiti.

In 1804, enslaved Haitians succeeded in beating back the French, British, and Spanish empires to establish the world’s first black republic. Haiti’s existence represents “the turning point” for the antislavery movement, Davis writes, raising the previously unthinkable prospect of immediate emancipation into a full-fledged reality. Until Haiti, abolitionists focused on either gradual emancipation, or simply ending the slave trade, not slavery itself. Haiti changed that. In the short term, however, the Haitian Revolution actually slowed the official antislavery campaign. And slavery’s defenders quickly turned Haiti into an axe to bludgeon the abolitionist movement: give slaves even the slightest bit of hope, and they’ll insist on immediate freedom.

So white Americans came up with an alternative: colonization. Davis argues that the “bloodstained ghost” of Haiti—combined with a virulent racism comparatively absent in Britain—led America’s white abolitionists to favor returning slaves to Africa rather than setting them free and having them live as equals among whites. To make that idea a reality, the American Colonization Society, founded in 1816 by a coalition of white abolitionists and Southern slave-owners, created Liberia in 1822. Northern abolitionists and Southern slave-owners may have disagreed over the morality of slavery, but what united them, Davis argues, is racism.

The problem was that blacks did not want to go. The “militant reaction against colonization, initiated by blacks themselves,” Davis writes, “gave a distinctive stamp to American abolitionism.” Initially, however, some free blacks were open to the idea, in part because they thought another black republic might bring dignity to their race, and in part because they knew racism in America was only getting worse. But the scene Davis paints from a free black Philadelphia church in 1817 says it all. When James Forten, one of the city’s most prominent free blacks, put up a vote of “ayes” for those in favor of colonization, he was stunned when “there was not a soul in favor of going to Africa,” as Forten wrote.

By the 1830s, it became clear that colonization was not a viable solution. If slavery was going to end, free blacks insisted that whites accept them as equal citizens—and end slavery immediately. The white abolitionist editor William Lloyd Garrison is often remembered as the most vocal proponent of immediate emancipation, but Davis reorients readers to his black backers. It was Forten’s financial support that kept Garrison’s radical abolitionist paper, The Liberator, afloat, for instance. More significantly, slave rebellions both within and beyond America’s borders, coupled with slaves’ persistent attempts to runaway, hastened the calls for immediate emancipation.

But free black Americans like Frederick Douglass ultimately forced immediate emancipation to become the only real option. Britain set the precedent when, in 1838, they emancipated all its 800,000 Caribbean slaves. But Davis argues that Britain did so only when it realized it served its “national honor.” Free black Americans, he insists, played the crucial role of bringing British abolitionist pressure to bear on America. Throughout the 1840s, Douglass traveled to Britain giving lectures denouncing American slavery, winning over a comparatively less racist British public. Popular pressure then forced British leaders to take the lead in the international antislavery crusade.

Readers may not always feel that Davis’s account warrants his description of emancipation as the “greatest landmark of willed moral progress in human history.” He judiciously Davis explains all the amoral reasons for the abolitionist campaign’s success. In Britain, for instance, officials in part took up the cause as a way to deflect attention from miserable working conditions at home. And he perhaps too enthusiastically endorses the argument that promoting antislavery went against Britain’s economic self-interest. While it is true abolition destroyed Britain’s sugar and slave-trade industries, the illicit trade continued to flourish. Meanwhile, Britain’s manufacturing industry prospered from importing slave-grown American cotton. That explains why, as Davis notes, British leaders actually supported the Confederacy until it was all but certain they would lose.

How Blacks Freed Themselves from Slavery

Can you sum this up in 3 sentences or less ? We want to start off the day without getting sick.

 

[protectionist]

If the Civil War wasn't partly about freeing the slaves then why were they freed?

I seem to recall you asking this a few days ago. Still no answer ?

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

Please hear the commenter out. This is very interesting.

Why? He missed the entire point. I'm the OP here and this thread is about the lie of whites claiming how whites died to free us from slavery. As the video shows ad states, northern whites didn't fight to free the slaves and damn sure southern whites didn't. So then the claim that whites died to free us is a lie.

No it's not. Whites DID die to free blacks and you know this. You're using the Civil War to argue your point but the problem is, regardless of the reason whites fought the Civil War for, whites did fight and die to free slaves and secure civil rights for blacks.

Nope, that did not happen. And as we see by the legal decisions made after the civil war whites did not fight to secure the civil rights of blacks. THAT, is what I know. And it is what YOU need to learn.

So what are these people, black albinos?

Why is it that you want to give whites credit for things they did not lead? Things they were faces in the crowd for but not responsible for doing? How much more dishonest can you get? 1white person dies in a civil rights protest and you want to claim whites died for our civil rights like they organized and led the march. 300 blacks may have been beaten and killed, the organizers are black and have had their lives threatened but we must only recognize that one white so your white ass can feel good about yourself. I'm not going to do that. Whites had no real role in civil tights leadership or organization. Yes there were whites who showed up, but blacks were the organizers and creators of organizations and groups that made it happen.

If you were talking about who led the fight to end slavery and for civil rights then you should have said so in the OP. However, you never made any such distinctions in the OP or in any of your posts in this discussion, you only claimed that whites never fought.

If blacks had not done these things whites weren't going to.

Again, that wasn't the point of the OP. The point was only that whites never fought. But we both know this to be false, don't we?

 

[irosie91]

So, all those dead white guys that fought in the civil war, their lives are meaningless, according to IM2. Somehow, ignoring the past black African/Muslim Arab slave traders and centering on whites instead,
as the favorite whipping boy of any historical transgressions. But wait a minute! Hold on here, black American slaves just pulled themselves up out of slavery by their boot heels? IM2 says so, No Muss, no fuss. Um, I must have missed that delicate little side note in history class. When did this mysterious event happen?

You missed a lot of things in history class. Whites did not die to free blacks. There will be no talking about Arabs or Africans since they did not create the US constitution. Whites should not have done what they did.

\

I never learned in MY history classes that whites died to save blacks (except a few ----not a big deal) You are right---whites did not die to save blacks in the USA. ----and guess what------black servicemen in world war II did not die to save jews. ----It is a commonly held belief based on islamo Nazi propaganda that the US entered world war II----TO SAVE DA JEWS. I would not be surprised if there are some blacks OUT THERE who believe that BS

My father fought in the European theatre and took a bullet for a nation that did let him vote when he came back home. He did fight to stop Hitler. Had he been in the pacific theatre that would have been a different story So your comparison is stupid.

your idiotic post IM2------is not at all responsive to my post. My father was in
the North Atlantic-----also fighting "HITLER"------so?

 

[irosie91]

If the Civil War wasn't partly about freeing the slaves then why were they freed?

It was, for most of the involved parties,
an unintended consquence

 

[Taz]

If the Civil War wasn't partly about freeing the slaves then why were they freed?

I seem to recall you asking this a few days ago. Still no answer ?

Nope. The White Beaters have no answer for this one.

 

[Taz]

If the Civil War wasn't partly about freeing the slaves then why were they freed?

It was, for most of the involved parties,
an unintended consquence

Sorry, no it wasn't, here are a bunch of quotes from Southern diplomats... explaining that slavery was a central component to the war.

Selected Quotations

 

[irosie91]

We know all humans are one race.

We do?

Would we also say there are no sub-species in the primate order?

"sub-species" ???----that would more commonly be called a "strain". It has virtually no meaning in the species
Homo-sapien because of extensive interbreeding

 

[Unkotare]

We keep getting told how whites died fighting to end slavery ......

An awful lot of people did die fighting a war that ultimately ended slavery. Do you deny this?

 

[protectionist]

Nope. The White Beaters have no answer for this one.

Sure looks that way. I've been hearing crickets ever since you asked that question.

 

[irosie91]

If the Civil War wasn't partly about freeing the slaves then why were they freed?

It was, for most of the involved parties,
an unintended consquence

Sorry, no it wasn't, here are a bunch of quotes from Southern diplomats... explaining that slavery was a central component to the war.

Selected Quotations

a 35 year collection of comments by pro-slavery people. How about a nice 35 year collection of the comments of SOUTHERN anti-slavery people?

 

[protectionist]

An awful lot of people did die fighting a war that ultimately ended slavery. Do you deny this?

That's exactly what he's been doing for a few days now, while adding that whites get no credit - despite 300,000 Union deaths (many more severely wounded)

 

[protectionist]

a 35 year collection of comments by pro-slavery people. How about a nice 35 year collection of the comments of SOUTHERN anti-slavery people?

Most southern whites (especially in mountain areas) never even heard of slavery. Many lived their entire lives never having seen a black person, or even knew they existed.

 

[Taz]

If the Civil War wasn't partly about freeing the slaves then why were they freed?

It was, for most of the involved parties,
an unintended consquence

Sorry, no it wasn't, here are a bunch of quotes from Southern diplomats... explaining that slavery was a central component to the war.

Selected Quotations

a 35 year collection of comments by pro-slavery people. How about a nice 35 year collection of the comments of SOUTHERN anti-slavery people?

If you can find any...

 

[irosie91]

a 35 year collection of comments by pro-slavery people. How about a nice 35 year collection of the comments of SOUTHERN anti-slavery people?

Most southern whites (especially in mountain areas) never even heard of slavery. Many lived their entire lives never having seen a black person, or even knew they existed.

so true----another boring personal anecdote-----my mom followed my dad
to FLORIDA----when he was in the Navy
during world war II. She roomed in a private house of a local doc and his wife---
Sunday came around and the friendly lady
invited mom to church. Mom said---"oh--
I don't go--I am a jew" My mom told me that the lady was SHOCKED and kinda
denied it with "BUT YOU LOOK JUST LIKE US" People were very ---provincial
just 75 years ago------barely left their little
10 mile areas. One hundred and fifty years ago they were CLUELESS. I have more stories from my own childhood OUT
IN THE STICKS OF NEW JERSEY. HOWEVER there were very ardent anti-
slavery people back then---pre civil war.
The vast majority of people just clueless.
Out in the sticks of New Jersey----well--nevah mind

 

[irosie91]

If the Civil War wasn't partly about freeing the slaves then why were they freed?

It was, for most of the involved parties,
an unintended consquence

Sorry, no it wasn't, here are a bunch of quotes from Southern diplomats... explaining that slavery was a central component to the war.

Selected Quotations

a 35 year collection of comments by pro-slavery people. How about a nice 35 year collection of the comments of SOUTHERN anti-slavery people?

If you can find any...

Depends upon where you look. In general---such records are not stored in
the Library of the GRAND WIZARD OF
THE KLAN

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

 

[katsteve2012]

If the Civil War wasn't partly about freeing the slaves then why were they freed?

Seriously? The intent was to cripple the souths economic system, and force them back into the union.

Which is why the emancipation proclamation only freed the slaves who were in the confederate states.