There's only one way votes should be counted.

[saveliberty]

People oppose voter ID laws because it almost certainly prevents far more legitimate votes than illegitimate ones and would you look at who mostly gets wrongly turned away.

People also oppose voter ID laws because they know they're unwarranted and devoid of merit.

Making each vote reflect that person's intent and actual vote, without the specter of voting fraud is definitely merited. Again, Congress sees the merit too.

Far more cases of election tampering in America than voter fraud and yet for some reason you cannot get people who are so concerned about pushing the ID issue to even talk about it.

Wouldn't the ID system also help the tampering issue to a degree?

How would it?

Voter ID is an incredibly expensive solution to a problem that simply doesn't exist.

Denial, translation: I got nothing.

 

[saveliberty]

Democrats don't seem to answer the question how much fraud is okay?

How many innocent people in prison is "okay"?

How much collateral damage is "okay"?

We could play this game all day.

No you refuse to answer. Your game is avoidance.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Democrats don't seem to answer the question how much fraud is okay?

How many innocent people in prison is "okay"?

How much collateral damage is "okay"?

We could play this game all day.

No you refuse to answer. Your game is avoidance.

It's not that I "refuse" to answer, it's that your question is meaningless.

 

[saveliberty]

Good point, a single fraudulent vote in congress would be equal to hundreds of thousands of fraudulent votes, an almost ridiculous impossibility.

One person, one vote.

 

[saveliberty]

Democrats don't seem to answer the question how much fraud is okay?

How many innocent people in prison is "okay"?

How much collateral damage is "okay"?

We could play this game all day.

No you refuse to answer. Your game is avoidance.

It's not that I "refuse" to answer, it's that your question is meaningless.

No, your refusal to answer is approval of voter fraud.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

People also oppose voter ID laws because they know they're unwarranted and devoid of merit.

Making each vote reflect that person's intent and actual vote, without the specter of voting fraud is definitely merited. Again, Congress sees the merit too.

Far more cases of election tampering in America than voter fraud and yet for some reason you cannot get people who are so concerned about pushing the ID issue to even talk about it.

Wouldn't the ID system also help the tampering issue to a degree?

How would it?

Voter ID is an incredibly expensive solution to a problem that simply doesn't exist.

Denial, translation: I got nothing.

I'll repeat myself:

How would voter ID "help" with voter tampering, or any of the types of voter fraud that actually frequently occur in the real world?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Democrats don't seem to answer the question how much fraud is okay?

How many innocent people in prison is "okay"?

How much collateral damage is "okay"?

We could play this game all day.

No you refuse to answer. Your game is avoidance.

It's not that I "refuse" to answer, it's that your question is meaningless.

No, your refusal to answer is approval of voter fraud.

If it makes you feel better to believe that, go for it.

 

[saveliberty]

Making each vote reflect that person's intent and actual vote, without the specter of voting fraud is definitely merited. Again, Congress sees the merit too.

Far more cases of election tampering in America than voter fraud and yet for some reason you cannot get people who are so concerned about pushing the ID issue to even talk about it.

Wouldn't the ID system also help the tampering issue to a degree?

How would it?

Voter ID is an incredibly expensive solution to a problem that simply doesn't exist.

Denial, translation: I got nothing.

I'll repeat myself:

How would voter ID "help" with voter tampering, or any of the types of voter fraud that actually frequently occur in the real world?

Tampering method one: Create bogus voters. No card no vote.

Tampering method two: Remove votes from the count. IDs could not only record the votes on one onsite computer, but remotely to another that records a vote was made.

 

[saveliberty]

Democrats don't seem to answer the question how much fraud is okay?

How many innocent people in prison is "okay"?

How much collateral damage is "okay"?

We could play this game all day.

No you refuse to answer. Your game is avoidance.

It's not that I "refuse" to answer, it's that your question is meaningless.

No, your refusal to answer is approval of voter fraud.

If it makes you feel better to believe that, go for it.

You were given ample opportunity to just state it yourself.

 

[occupied]

Democrats don't seem to answer the question how much fraud is okay?

It's not OK, it's just not the problem that you people make it out to be. The figures are out there, each cycle maybe a few dozen people are caught trying to vote multiple times, so surrounding this issue with paranoia and hype suggests that there is an ulterior motive on the part of the mostly republican chicken-littles making this a major issue that is more important than the economy or anything else. No election that produces a democratic president will ever be legitimate to you people no matter how many hurdles you put between the people and their vote.

 

[occupied]

Far more cases of election tampering in America than voter fraud and yet for some reason you cannot get people who are so concerned about pushing the ID issue to even talk about it.

Wouldn't the ID system also help the tampering issue to a degree?

How would it?

Voter ID is an incredibly expensive solution to a problem that simply doesn't exist.

Denial, translation: I got nothing.

I'll repeat myself:

How would voter ID "help" with voter tampering, or any of the types of voter fraud that actually frequently occur in the real world?

Tampering method one: Create bogus voters. No card no vote.

Tampering method two: Remove votes from the count. IDs could not only record the votes on one onsite computer, but remotely to another that records a vote was made.

Tampering method three (the one that still gets used): Program the voting machine to flip votes, the reason republicans fought re-countable paper ballots (remember that?) and pushed for entirely computerized machines is that it makes tampering super easy and almost foolproof.

 

[saveliberty]

Democrats don't seem to answer the question how much fraud is okay?

It's not OK, it's just not the problem that you people make it out to be. The figures are out there, each cycle maybe a few dozen people are caught trying to vote multiple times, so surrounding this issue with paranoia and hype suggests that there is an ulterior motive on the part of the mostly republican chicken-littles making this a major issue that is more important than the economy or anything else. No election that produces a democratic president will ever be legitimate to you people no matter how many hurdles you put between the people and their vote.

Thank you for answering the question occupied. I sincerely want your vote to count exactly the same as mine. Further, by removing fraud, however small, maybe we can recognize the legitimacy of the vote more and end some of the division brought about by mistrust at the ballot box.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

You can see how much people like occupied are truly racist and think very little of blacks, since he thinks they would be too dumb to execute this simple voting process.

 

[saveliberty]

Wouldn't the ID system also help the tampering issue to a degree?

How would it?

Voter ID is an incredibly expensive solution to a problem that simply doesn't exist.

Denial, translation: I got nothing.

I'll repeat myself:

How would voter ID "help" with voter tampering, or any of the types of voter fraud that actually frequently occur in the real world?

Tampering method one: Create bogus voters. No card no vote.

Tampering method two: Remove votes from the count. IDs could not only record the votes on one onsite computer, but remotely to another that records a vote was made.

Tampering method three (the one that still gets used): Program the voting machine to flip votes, the reason republicans fought re-countable paper ballots (remember that?) and pushed for entirely computerized machines is that it makes tampering super easy and almost foolproof.

It doesn't seem like an improvement does it? Paper also takes longer to count. That is helpful in a way, because the West Coast voters aren't discouraged by all the East Coast and Midwest returns as quickly.

 

[saveliberty]

Gentlemen, it is late for me with my early morning schedule. Glad I could bring Congressional voter IDs to your attention and find some common ground with at least one member of the opposing view.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Congress uses voter ID, because it is important each vote be legitimate.

People oppose voter ID laws because it almost certainly prevents far more legitimate votes than illegitimate ones and would you look at who mostly gets wrongly turned away.

People also oppose voter ID laws because they know they're unwarranted and devoid of merit.

Making each vote reflect that person's intent and actual vote, without the specter of voting fraud is definitely merited. Again, Congress sees the merit too.

Voter ID laws are devoid of merit because there's no objective, documented evidence in support of such laws, where 'fraud' by identity does not manifest as a 'problem' that warrants the state's desire to needlessly burden the fundamental right to vote. Indeed, voter ID laws are a 'solution' in search of a problem.

Moreover, the responsibility rests solely with the state to justify the restriction of a fundamental right, it's not the citizen's responsibility to 'prove' he's not attempting to commit voter fraud; that the state 'feels' or 'believes' a voter 'might' commit voter fraud by identity is not justification to burden the right to vote with ID laws, just as the state cannot restrict free speech because a citizen 'might' say something obscene, or 'might' yell fire in a crowded theater.

 

[occupied]

How would it?

Voter ID is an incredibly expensive solution to a problem that simply doesn't exist.

Denial, translation: I got nothing.

I'll repeat myself:

How would voter ID "help" with voter tampering, or any of the types of voter fraud that actually frequently occur in the real world?

Tampering method one: Create bogus voters. No card no vote.

Tampering method two: Remove votes from the count. IDs could not only record the votes on one onsite computer, but remotely to another that records a vote was made.

Tampering method three (the one that still gets used): Program the voting machine to flip votes, the reason republicans fought re-countable paper ballots (remember that?) and pushed for entirely computerized machines is that it makes tampering super easy and almost foolproof.

It doesn't seem like an improvement does it? Paper also takes longer to count. That is helpful in a way, because the West Coast voters aren't discouraged by all the East Coast and Midwest returns as quickly.

Since the beginning of democracy the vote counters have been the election fixers, with voter fraud the wisdom is that there are enough people on both sides cheating to cancel each other out. Anything that makes it much harder to falsify counts is what makes me feel that the vote is legitimate and I wouldn't care if the count took days to accomplish with as many monitors as it takes. America will eventually absorb these ID laws and adjust but like it or not democrats will still win and republicans will still find some way to paint them as election thieves.

 

[hipeter924]

Make everyone sign an affidavit stating they are a citizen of the United States and to their knowledge are eligible to vote, when they submit their ballot.

Then match up the list of those who voted with those that are citizens eligible to vote (and sue the asses of non-citizens for perjury if necessary).

Also send voters a confirmation of their vote upon request, stating who they voted for.

Together those measures would create more paperwork, but would decrease the amount of voter fraud without requiring voter ID's (which can be forged).

 

[occupied]

Make everyone sign an affidavit stating they are a citizen of the United States and to their knowledge are eligible to vote, when they submit their ballot.

Then match up the list of those who voted with those that are citizens eligible to vote (and sue the asses of non-citizens for perjury if necessary).

Also send voters a confirmation of their vote upon request, stating who they voted for.

Together those measures would create more paperwork, but would decrease the amount of voter fraud without requiring voter ID's (which can be forged).

Any bright ideas on how the votes should be counted? No urge to bring more integrity and transparency to that process? Who gets to do the checking and rejecting and who is watching them? It is during that brief period when the ballots are in the hands of election officials when elections are stolen. A certain number of election workers are there to cheat if they can, it's human nature, I feel that these people have pulled off more coups in resent years than anyone would like to believe. If you are really concerned with election integrity then abandon the ID issue and look at the people who actually handle the ballot box.

 

[Siete]

what keeps dems from stealing republicans election cards in the mail and voting for a dem???


LMAO

In their minds there is no way America voted twice to elect a black man president, must have cheated, in the meantime not a one of them gives a shit about official vote tampering, the real way to steal an election.

the electoral college declared a winner before the votes were even tallied.

electoral college ID's MUST be the answer..

yeah that's it, that's the ticket.