There HAS to be life on other planets..

[scruffy]

Are you sure we aren't "trapped" in a universe created by God?
He revealed the purpose of the stars in heaven. If you reject that ONE purpose that's up to you. But it is something to consider

The word "only" appears almost never in the Bible. Just in key places. Its omission is just as important as its inclusion.

 

[ding]

Sure, but there are also an infinite number of ways matter and energy could be structured to allow another planet to create life as well.

Can you list one? Because I don't think there is.

 

[ding]

Well. I don’t know if I agree with that. The conditions required that we had to adapt to may not be the same conditions that another planet had to adapt to. Remember, we only survived because of adaption (if you believe in evolution). But even if that weren’t the case, why is it so difficult to imagine it didn’t happen elsewhere? Remember, the universe had trillions of chances, maybe even more.

I know it and I already explained why to you.

 

[ding]

I’m no scientist, but, wasn’t the Big Bang nothing but radiation, atoms, elements..etc. that created the “soup” that when it cooled, is how matter formed?

No. It was a quantum tunneling event of paired particle production.

The Early Universe

pages.uoregon.edu

 

[Libby von H]

I’m not talking about little green men, and I’ve never been a believer in aliens, I’ve never seen any evidence to prove to me that there are. However…there are hundreds of billions of galaxies, some say even trillions of galaxies. The odds that when the universe formed, that our planet is the ONLY one that ended up being able to sustain intelligent life would have to be astronomically high. It would almost seem impossible that what happened on on earth didn’t also happen somewhere else, or in many different places.

My thought on this is that if earth is the only place where humans ended up, you’d almost have to believe in creation to believe that.

Thoughts?

THat makes the Creator acting udern compulsion.
There didn't have to be life anywhere.

 

[ding]

Your scenario, however, still doesn’t prove God exists, it just calls into question the story of evolution, but that doesn’t automatically point to God.

How about this…if this is a created universe…and we are the only ones here, then why would God create the universe so big? I mean, what was the need for trillions and trillions of galaxies if it was only ever going to be us?

Maybe not to you but for me it does. The universe existing with matter in it and being hardwired for intelligence is so improbable that it couldn't be happenstance.

Who said it's just us?

 

[ding]

it’s improbable that there isn’t.

Ah.... the ole improbability argument. What's more improbable? Existence coming from existence or existence coming from non-existence? Intelligence coming from intelligence or intelligence coming from happenstance?

 

[ThisIsMe]

Now where did I ever say that?

Do not try and make claims to things I never said, that is a guaranteed fail. I said what I said, and I meant exactly what I said.

However, I do believe that life even evolving to the point we have is almost impossible. It has only happened for us through extreme luck and good fortune, and can literally be wiped out tomorrow. One simply has to look back in the geological record of our own planet to see that. Or that of Mars, which we now know for a fact once had large oceans, but is now a barren wasteland. But also, realize that "almost impossible" is still a freaking huge number. If only a single planet is able to evolve to even the level of homo sapiens in a each galaxy, that is still over 2 trillion planets.

There are after all an estimated 1 septillion stars in the universe.

That is 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars. So is there intelligent life somewhere else out there? By the odds, more than likely there is. Not that it matters, because if there was such a planet with a lifeform in the Andromeda Galaxy, we would never be able to talk to them. Because for us to get a message now, they would have had to have sent it when humans had evolved as far as homo habilis, and had finally discovered how to make a crude stone tool.

And if they sent one then and we got it now, odds are they no longer exist. And they sure as hell would not exist by the time a response got back to them.

Now where did I ever say that?

However, I do believe that life even evolving to the point we have is almost impossible.

If only a single planet is able to evolve to even the level of homo sapiens in a each galaxy, that is still over 2 trillion planets.

Yes but you are talking about trillions of planets but that’s all we speculate in our observable universe. We don’t really KNOW how many planets there are, and we cannot even fathom how big the entire universe is. There could be a trillion to the 10,000th power number of galaxies out there, with 10,000 times as many planets. We really just don’t know.

But, again, everyone can have their own ideas about this and that’s fine. I just wanted to see what other people thought. Seems most believe in a single planet in the entire universe has intelligent life, and that’s fine. I simply find it hard to believe is all.

There are after all an estimated 1 septillion stars in the universe.

See, I just don’t see how they could even come up with that number. Our observable universe may be barely a pin hole on postage stamp on a sheet of paper in a 500 ream package in a box full other other reams, compared to the entirety of the actual universe. I just don’t see how they can even arrive at a number. Again, all we can tally is what we think we know about the observable universe.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Maybe not to you but for me it does. The universe existing with matter in it and being hardwired for intelligence is so improbable that it couldn't be happenstance.

Who said it's just us?

Who said it's just us?

Huh?? You did…like, that’s what you’ve been arguing all this time.

Read the paragraph just above that sentence you wrote….

 

[ding]

Huh?? You did…like, that’s what you’ve been arguing all this time.

I never said it was just us. Only that the universe is fine tuned to produce intelligence and that that can't be happenstance.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Ah.... the ole improbability argument. What's more improbable? Existence coming from existence or existence coming from non-existence? Intelligence coming from intelligence or intelligence coming from happenstance?

well, that still doesn’t prove God exists though. It’s certainly and argument to be made, but evolution has done a huge job of explaining all of that, in the Big Bang side of things.

 

[ThisIsMe]

I never said it was just us. Only that the universe is fine tuned to produce intelligence and that that can't be happenstance.

Ok, so you believe there could be intelligent life out there, but was also created?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I never said it was just us. Only that the universe is fine tuned to produce intelligence and that that can't be happenstance.

Which is a fallacy.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Can you list one? Because I don't think there is.

I have no idea…I’m just speculating. Everyone seems convinced that the conditions that happened here are the only ones that could have ever produced life, I’m saying, how do we know? Why couldn’t there have been other planets that underwent other conditions that life had to adapt to, in their own way? Again, WE only came to be because we adapted to our own conditions, and it took (according to evolution), only 2 million years?

The universe is a really old place, why couldn’t there have been evolution happening on other planets across the universe?

 

[ding]

well, that still doesn’t prove God exists though. It’s certainly and argument to be made, but evolution has done a huge job of explaining all of that, in the Big Bang side of things.

My argument is that it is so improbable the universe has matter in it instead of radiation, that the structure of matter is improbably fine tuned to produce intelligence, that the laws of nature are improbably fine tuned to produce intelligence, that the laws of nature existed before the universe, that it is much more likely that intelligence produced intelligence than happenstance produced intelligence, that it is much more likely that existence produced existence than non-existence produced existence, that the physical, biological and moral laws of nature scream reason and purpose and intelligence and that almost every argument made proves people believe in a universal truth of right and wrong... all which point to mind as the source or matrix of the physical world.

 

[ding]

evolution has done a huge job of explaining all of that, in the Big Bang side of things.

Ok, let's talk evolution.

There have been 5 stages of evolution of space and time; cosmic evolution, stellar evolution, chemical evolution, biological evolution and evolution of consciousness.

In his book, "The Phenomenon of Man" Pierre Teilhard de Chardin describes evolution as a process that leads to increasing complexity, culminating in a Christ consciousness. He limited his observations to biological evolution but the same observation can be made about all stages of the evolution of space and time. The complexification of matter increased until it naturally and logically made the leap to the next stage. The last and final stage of evolution of space and time is consciousness. So it seems logical that consciousness would also increase in complexity until it to made the leap to the next stage which Chardin describes as Christ consciousness.

1. The universe began as a soup of subatomic particles and radiation and naturally and logically complexified into hydrogen and helium. This is what is called the cosmic stage of the evolution of space and time.
2. Hydrogen and helium then naturally and logically complexified into structures like stars and galaxies. This is what is called the stellar stage of the evolution of space and time.
3. From the life cycle of galaxies and stars all of the other elements and compounds were naturally and logically formed. This is what is called the chemical stage of the evolution of space and time.
4. As chemical evolution naturally and logically complexified the leap to biological life was made. This is what is called the biological stage of the evolution of space and time.
5. As life logically and naturally evolved and complexified the leap to consciousness was made. This is what is called the conscious stage of of the evolution of space and time.

So we can see that each successive stage of the evolution of space and time complexified until it made the leap to the next stage. And it did so naturally and logically. So Chardin's assumption that consciousness will make the leap to a Christ consciousness is logical because it presumes that consciousness will evolve and complexify and make the leap to the next level because every other stage of the evolution of space and time did so too before it.

 

[ding]

Ok, so you believe there could be intelligent life out there, but was also created?

Why not? Think of the universe as an intelligence creating machine. You think SETI is looking for intelligence on a lark? They expect to find it because the universe is hardwired to produce intelligence.

 

[progressive hunter]

Why not? Think of the universe as an intelligence creating machine. You think SETI is looking for intelligence on a lark? They expect to find it because the universe is hardwired to produce intelligence.

I must have missed that in the owners manual,,

 

[ding]

I must have missed that in the owners manual,,

You have an owners manual?

 

[progressive hunter]

You have an owners manual?

not so much a manual as just dirt,,

where did you read that??