Zone1 The word Catholic is not in the Bible. Once Saved Always Saved is not there either

[forkintheroad7]

Yeh, Protestants are not terribly self-aware much of the time. I've met some open minded ones, and they were a joy to behold. Too bad I didn't get contact info from this one I'm thinking of, which was something like 6 years ago.

But anyhow, they do the following (anti-Catholic protesters, that is):

1) accuse Catholics of following the pope and not Jesus. Then they quote their pastor's talking points ad nauseum instead of thinking for themselves/interpreting scripture for themselves...

2) bring up the Inquisition incessantly (which they never seem to fully understand) and act like Catholics did horrible things to people (most of which stories are false), but conveniently forget (or don't bother to learn in the first place) that Protestants in history murdered Catholics just for celebrating Mass..

3) claim to go by the Bible but believe things that are (surprise, surprise) not in the Bible

As to that last, I mostly speak of Once Saved Always Saved, which if one believes and lives by that false doctrine, one will end up in Hell. That's because all through the Bible, which I have actually read, it says we will be judged by our actions. Read the Book of Revelation. Luther was the idiot who came up with this "sin all you want, you can't lose your salvation" garbage...

So they follow a man and not Jesus, which is what they accuse Catholics of...

 

[Manonthestreet]

Bible Gateway passage: John 10:27-28 - King James Version

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Mack The Finger]

So they follow a man and not Jesus, which is what they accuse Catholics of...

When first used the word Catholic meant anyone who believed in J.C.

BTW: Jesus is never used in the Bible either.

 

[Quantrill]

Yeh, Protestants are not terribly self-aware much of the time. I've met some open minded ones, and they were a joy to behold. Too bad I didn't get contact info from this one I'm thinking of, which was something like 6 years ago.

But anyhow, they do the following (anti-Catholic protesters, that is):

1) accuse Catholics of following the pope and not Jesus. Then they quote their pastor's talking points ad nauseum instead of thinking for themselves/interpreting scripture for themselves...

2) bring up the Inquisition incessantly (which they never seem to fully understand) and act like Catholics did horrible things to people (most of which stories are false), but conveniently forget (or don't bother to learn in the first place) that Protestants in history murdered Catholics just for celebrating Mass..

3) claim to go by the Bible but believe things that are (surprise, surprise) not in the Bible

As to that last, I mostly speak of Once Saved Always Saved, which if one believes and lives by that false doctrine, one will end up in Hell. That's because all through the Bible, which I have actually read, it says we will be judged by our actions. Read the Book of Revelation. Luther was the idiot who came up with this "sin all you want, you can't lose your salvation" garbage...

So they follow a man and not Jesus, which is what they accuse Catholics of...

You appear to be looking for the exact word or phrase in the Bible, such as 'catholic' or 'once saved always saved'. You can say the same for the 'Trinity' or the 'Rapture'.

Point being, though the exact English word is not there, the teaching is there in the Bible. Catholic means 'universal'. And the Bible teaches of the universal church of Jesus Christ as opposed to just a local church. The entire body of born-again-believers.

'Once saved always saved', speaks to the security of ones salvation in Christ once he believes and is born-again. The phrase probably came about due to teachings that one could lose their salvation. There are verses in the Bible that can support either way. I believe the overall understanding of Scripture shows that one who has believed on Christ as their Lord and Saviour, has 'eternal life'. If they can lose it, it is not eternal.

My opinion.

Quantrill

 

[TNHarley]

Yeh, Protestants are not terribly self-aware much of the time. I've met some open minded ones, and they were a joy to behold. Too bad I didn't get contact info from this one I'm thinking of, which was something like 6 years ago.

But anyhow, they do the following (anti-Catholic protesters, that is):

1) accuse Catholics of following the pope and not Jesus. Then they quote their pastor's talking points ad nauseum instead of thinking for themselves/interpreting scripture for themselves...

2) bring up the Inquisition incessantly (which they never seem to fully understand) and act like Catholics did horrible things to people (most of which stories are false), but conveniently forget (or don't bother to learn in the first place) that Protestants in history murdered Catholics just for celebrating Mass..

3) claim to go by the Bible but believe things that are (surprise, surprise) not in the Bible

As to that last, I mostly speak of Once Saved Always Saved, which if one believes and lives by that false doctrine, one will end up in Hell. That's because all through the Bible, which I have actually read, it says we will be judged by our actions. Read the Book of Revelation. Luther was the idiot who came up with this "sin all you want, you can't lose your salvation" garbage...

So they follow a man and not Jesus, which is what they accuse Catholics of...

Have you ever made a thread without trash talking protestants?
And yet, all you do is claim you are a victim. Its hilarious.

 

[forkintheroad7]

Have you ever made a thread without trash talking protestants?
And yet, all you do is claim you are a victim. Its hilarious.

Another one who despises truth and lives to insult people

time for Ignore

 

[hadit]

You appear to be looking for the exact word or phrase in the Bible, such as 'catholic' or 'once saved always saved'. You can say the same for the 'Trinity' or the 'Rapture'.

Point being, though the exact English word is not there, the teaching is there in the Bible. Catholic means 'universal'. And the Bible teaches of the universal church of Jesus Christ as opposed to just a local church. The entire body of born-again-believers.

'Once saved always saved', speaks to the security of ones salvation in Christ once he believes and is born-again. The phrase probably came about due to teachings that one could lose their salvation. There are verses in the Bible that can support either way. I believe the overall understanding of Scripture shows that one who has believed on Christ as their Lord and Saviour, has 'eternal life'. If they can lose it, it is not eternal.

My opinion.

Quantrill

It also goes along with the idea that once salvation is truly experienced, it becomes literally impossible to imagine life without Christ. If all you have is an emotional experience it can fade away but being transformed does not fade. It can be temporarily obscured by the cares of life, but it always blazes up again.

 

[Quantrill]

It also goes along with the idea that once salvation is truly experienced, it becomes literally impossible to imagine life without Christ. If all you have is an emotional experience it can fade away but being transformed does not fade. It can be temporarily obscured by the cares of life, but it always blazes up again.

I guess the point you are making is that our salvation is secured by our faith, at a point in time, in Jesus Christ. At which time we are born-again. To which, can never change. Our slavation is secure from that time on forever.

Quantrill

 

[hadit]

Yeh, Protestants are not terribly self-aware much of the time. I've met some open minded ones, and they were a joy to behold. Too bad I didn't get contact info from this one I'm thinking of, which was something like 6 years ago.

But anyhow, they do the following (anti-Catholic protesters, that is):

1) accuse Catholics of following the pope and not Jesus. Then they quote their pastor's talking points ad nauseum instead of thinking for themselves/interpreting scripture for themselves...

Ironic, considering that a LOT of Catholics choose to accept the pope's interpretation of Scriptures instead of thinking for themselves. Anyone who does not read the Word prayerfully is easily led astray by man.

2) bring up the Inquisition incessantly (which they never seem to fully understand) and act like Catholics did horrible things to people (most of which stories are false),

And how do you know they are false? Are you not just taking the word of those with an incentive to proclaim them false? Face reality, the Catholic Church of that day was deeply entwined with the secular power structure and did not tolerate dissent.

but conveniently forget (or don't bother to learn in the first place) that Protestants in history murdered Catholics just for celebrating Mass..

And where did they do that? Was it in places where they were in the minority of the power structure and the Catholic Church in the majority, or was it where they had achieved power themselves? IOW, it wasn't right for either group to murder each other but you really need to stop pretending Catholics did not do it.

3) claim to go by the Bible but believe things that are (surprise, surprise) not in the Bible

As to that last, I mostly speak of Once Saved Always Saved, which if one believes and lives by that false doctrine, one will end up in Hell. That's because all through the Bible, which I have actually read, it says we will be judged by our actions.

Then you have paid no attention to the Apostle Paul's writings, where he laid out in clear detail that faith alone saves us and our actions will be the proof of that salvation. IOW, don't expect to stand before God and claim salvation if your life has not been transformed. Having an emotional experience isn't salvation, nor is praying the Rosary twice a day or confessing to a priest. Trying to earn your salvation does you no better than trying to swim from California to Hawaii. Some will make it further than others, but no one staggers out of the surf on the beach at Hawaii. Meanwhile, Jesus is standing by with a cruise ship, asking everyone to just get on board and sail to Hawaii with Him.

Read the Book of Revelation. Luther was the idiot who came up with this "sin all you want, you can't lose your salvation" garbage...

That's a straw man. No one believes that, because once you are transformed by the Holy Spirit, you actively fight sin, you do not continue in it. You really need to better understand what you are whining about.

So they follow a man and not Jesus, which is what they accuse Catholics of...

You seem to glorify in attacking Protestants, even though, should you be in that great cloud of people that John saw before God's throne, you will be rubbing elbows with a whole bunch of them. Better be prepared, I hear God doesn't take too kindly to anyone who would reject those He has forgiven.

Seems there was a parable Jesus told us about something like that.

 

[hadit]

I guess the point you are making is that our salvation is secured by our faith, at a point in time, in Jesus Christ. At which time we are born-again. To which, can never change. Our slavation is secure from that time on forever.

Quantrill

Yes, and faith is not a one-time thing. We demonstrate it daily through our actions. Actions and faith go hand in hand, but faith saves us so that no one can boast about their accomplishments. Actions are the evidence of our faith.

The mere fact that we are even concerned about it is evidence of the Spirit within us. Scripture tells us to examine ourselves to be sure we are in the faith, so it's not something to be taken lightly. Far too often we look at experiences or actions and say, "that's when I was saved so I don't need to worry about it anymore" and don't continue to deeply seek that face-to-face relationship with Christ.

I often compare it to being in love. You don't have to tell anyone that you're in love, you don't have to carry signs or perform certain actions, they just know it by the way you look, talk, and act, especially when you're around your loved one. You can't help yourself.

 

[Quantrill]

Yes, and faith is not a one-time thing. We demonstrate it daily through our actions. Actions and faith go hand in hand, but faith saves us so that no one can boast about their accomplishments. Actions are the evidence of our faith.

The mere fact that we are even concerned about it is evidence of the Spirit within us. Scripture tells us to examine ourselves to be sure we are in the faith, so it's not something to be taken lightly. Far too often we look at experiences or actions and say, "that's when I was saved so I don't need to worry about it anymore" and don't continue to deeply seek that face-to-face relationship with Christ.

I often compare it to being in love. You don't have to tell anyone that you're in love, you don't have to carry signs or perform certain actions, they just know it by the way you look, talk, and act, especially when you're around your loved one. You can't help yourself.

But is our security in our salvation based upon a one time event? That event being when I believed on Christ as Lord and Saviour and was born-again?

Quantrill

 

[hadit]

But is our security in our salvation based upon a one time event? That event being when I believed on Christ as Lord and Saviour and was born-again?

Quantrill

That event is the start of the relationship. I do believe that someone can deliberately walk away from God, but I am not going to pick a point where God says, "Enough, you're no longer one of mine", if He ever does. I do know that Jesus gave us a beautiful parable about a shepherd that left his flock in safety to go after one lamb that was lost. He didn't worry about the flock He left because He knew they were safe. Personally, I don't worry about "losing" my salvation, as if one day I wake up and find that I accidentally left it at a friend's house last night and somebody threw it out. I believe that God continuously speaks to us and if our salvation could be stripped away, it would have to be a deliberate choice on our part.

The ones I really feel sorry for are those who think they have earned salvation, telling God all the things they did in His name, only to hear Him say He never knew them, and they are sent away.

The bottom line is, if we worry about any of these things, it's because the Holy Spirit is working in us, purifying us and convincing us of sin.

 

[Quantrill]

That event is the start of the relationship. I do believe that someone can deliberately walk away from God, but I am not going to pick a point where God says, "Enough, you're no longer one of mine", if He ever does. I do know that Jesus gave us a beautiful parable about a shepherd that left his flock in safety to go after one lamb that was lost. He didn't worry about the flock He left because He knew they were safe. Personally, I don't worry about "losing" my salvation, as if one day I wake up and find that I accidentally left it at a friend's house last night and somebody threw it out. I believe that God continuously speaks to us and if our salvation could be stripped away, it would have to be a deliberate choice on our part.

The ones I really feel sorry for are those who think they have earned salvation, telling God all the things they did in His name, only to hear Him say He never knew them, and they are sent away.

The bottom line is, if we worry about any of these things, it's because the Holy Spirit is working in us, purifying us and convincing us of sin.

You don't want to answer the question. I understand.

Quantrill

 

[hadit]

You don't want to answer the question. I understand.

Quantrill

I don't have an absolute answer and answered accordingly. I do not agree with Catholics who insist we have to earn salvation through works, and I do not agree with those who want to claim they are saved because of a childhood experience walking the sawdust trail but want to live in sin with no effort to overcome it. Where do you stand, as it seems that you want a concrete answer?

 

[Quantrill]

I don't have an absolute answer and answered accordingly. I do not agree with Catholics who insist we have to earn salvation through works, and I do not agree with those who want to claim they are saved because of a childhood experience walking the sawdust trail but want to live in sin with no effort to overcome it. Where do you stand, as it seems that you want a concrete answer?

I have said where I stand. See last sentence in my post #(4).

Quantrill

 

[Zebra]

BTW: Jesus is never used in the Bible either.

can you explain? What name is used then?

 

[forkintheroad7]

You appear to be looking for the exact word or phrase in the Bible, such as 'catholic' or 'once saved always saved'. You can say the same for the 'Trinity' or the 'Rapture'. . 'Once saved always saved', speaks to the security of ones salvation in Christ once he believes and is born-again. The phrase probably came about due to teachings that one could lose their salvation. There are verses in the Bible that can support either way. I believe the overall understanding of Scripture shows that one who has believed on Christ as their Lord and Saviour, has 'eternal life'. If they can lose it, it is not eternal.

My opinion.

Quantrill

Well, I appreciate that you handle the topic at hand in an intelligent and seemingly honest way. I say "seemingly" because I've been interacting w/ Protestants, many who are virulently anti-Catholic, for many years now and as a result of those encounters... I do not trust them as far as I can throw.. Michael Moore.

1st thing is I wasn't looking for anything in the Bible to justify the use of the word Catholic. I don't need that kind of "justification" because Catholics rightly do not hold that everything God would have us know can be found, even if only implicitly, in the Bible.

Books (words) are finite. God is not.

2nd: No, there are NO scriptures in the Bible that could support OnceSavedAlwaysSaved. That's because OSAS is a heresy and in my pov, the worst one ever. For one thing, have you ever known anyone who actually lives by this doctrine of demons? If someone really, really believed that, he would have sex with any woman who was 1/2-willing... drink every day, get drunk... beat his wife and kids just because he has to get rid of frustrations... force his wife to have an abortion because he hates kids, who suck up a lot of money and time and energy...

Do you know anyone who does all that? Well, there may be a few but I find it laughable that any professed Christian would live like that and then go to "church" on Sunday and act like he's following Jesus. It's just total BS (that anyone really believes in osas). And defending OSAS means you are defending a very sinful human being who rebelled against the Church... the ONE and only Church founded by Jesus Christ himself.. LUTHER, the "Father of Protestantism," instead of Jesus Christ, who is God.

(and there is a 3rd and 4th thing but I'll leave it at that for now)

 

[hadit]

Well, I appreciate that you handle the topic at hand in an intelligent and seemingly honest way. I say "seemingly" because I've been interacting w/ Protestants, many who are virulently anti-Catholic, for many years now and as a result of those encounters... I do not trust them as far as I can throw.. Michael Moore.

1st thing is I wasn't looking for anything in the Bible to justify the use of the word Catholic. I don't need that kind of "justification" because Catholics rightly do not hold that everything God would have us know can be found, even if only implicitly, in the Bible.

Books (words) are finite. God is not.

2nd: No, there are NO scriptures in the Bible that could support OnceSavedAlwaysSaved. That's because OSAS is a heresy and in my pov, the worst one ever. For one thing, have you ever known anyone who actually lives by this doctrine of demons? If someone really, really believed that, he would have sex with any woman who was 1/2-willing... drink every day, get drunk... beat his wife and kids just because he has to get rid of frustrations... force his wife to have an abortion because he hates kids, who suck up a lot of money and time and energy...

Do you know anyone who does all that? Well, there may be a few but I find it laughable that any professed Christian would live like that and then go to "church" on Sunday and act like he's following Jesus. It's just total BS (that anyone really believes in osas). And defending OSAS means you are defending a very sinful human being who rebelled against the Church... the ONE and only Church founded by Jesus Christ himself.. LUTHER, the "Father of Protestantism," instead of Jesus Christ, who is God.

(and there is a 3rd and 4th thing but I'll leave it at that for now)

That's nonsense, as anyone claiming to be saved and deliberately living in rebellion against God has not been transformed and has no love for Christ. IOW, they were never saved to begin with. Salvation is not found in walking through a door with a particular name on it, it's not found in being baptized as an infant, it's not found in praying over a string of beads, it's not found in doing good things, hoping to be good enough, it's not found in repeating the right Latin words at the right time or kneeling in a service, NONE of those things.

It's only found in placing your faith in Jesus Christ and allowing Him to make you holy, and yes, that means your life will change. Faith and works are like an acrobat who walks across a tightrope suspended over Niagara Falls, then does it again pushing a wheelbarrow in front of him. He asks the crowd, "how many of you think I can do it again with you in the wheelbarrow"? Simple belief is someone raising their hand. Faith is that person getting in the wheelbarrow.

As I've repeatedly said, faith saves you, and your life will show it. Just trying to do good things won't do you any good at all. You'll be in the crowd that Jesus rejects because He never knew them, even with all the good deeds they protest they did.

 

[Zebra]

That's nonsense, as anyone claiming to be saved and deliberately living in rebellion against God has not been transformed and has no love for Christ. IOW, they were never saved to begin with. Salvation is not found in walking through a door with a particular name on it, it's not found in being baptized as an infant, it's not found in praying over a string of beads, it's not found in doing good things, hoping to be good enough, it's not found in repeating the right Latin words at the right time or kneeling in a service, NONE of those things.

It's only found in placing your faith in Jesus Christ and allowing Him to make you holy, and yes, that means your life will change. Faith and works are like an acrobat who walks across a tightrope suspended over Niagara Falls, then does it again pushing a wheelbarrow in front of him. He asks the crowd, "how many of you think I can do it again with you in the wheelbarrow"? Simple belief is someone raising their hand. Faith is that person getting in the wheelbarrow.

As I've repeatedly said, faith saves you, and your life will show it. Just trying to do good things won't do you any good at all. You'll be in the crowd that Jesus rejects because He never knew them, even with all the good deeds they protest they did.

what happens to good people that are not Christian?

 

[Mack The Finger]

can you explain? What name is used then?

Son of God.