The value of slavery?

[gallantwarrior]

From what I've seen, the posters on this site that support reparations do so for more than just slavery.

There is case for that as well but we are only discussing slavery. We know that laws and policies were implemented to cheat and hold Blacks back like share cropping, vagrancy laws, Black codes, red lining, loan denial etc etc etc but those are not part of the discussion now.

The article you cited does address many of those issues, too.

 

[Asclepias]

Here is a piece I found.
How America Should Pay Reparations

Thank you. There are good points there, but leaves it up to individuals to determine their qualification, and to determine the amount acceptable to each. At least once (that I know of), such a program of reparation has been implemented and paid for: Black Farmers to Receive Payouts in $1.2 Billion from Federal Lawsuit. It was fraught with fraud and abuse and left too many legitimate claimants unrewarded.
I'm actually looking for your calculations and how you determine them. Do you not consider the myriad of other programs, like Affirmative Action, that addressed past discrimination, to have been at least partially helpful?

The Black Farmers payout didnt have anything to do with slavery. That was a seperate issue.

"This is the second round of funding for black farmers. Thousands received payments in 1999 as part of a settlement in a class-action suit over allegations of widespread discrimination by federal officials who denied loans and other assistance to black farmers because of their race."

I havent made any calculations simply because I think its futile to waste time on something whites will fight to their dying breath. As long as whites control the system its not going to happen.

Why would I consider AA when AA has not been a Black only benefit? Matter of fact white women are the largest beneficiaries of AA which has increased the economic gap between whites and Blacks. There simply has never ever been a payout for the lost wages Blacks were denied during slavery.

I think that more people would be more receptive if provided some definite numbers. A vague claim of "some" money for "some" perceived hurt is probably much less helpful than someone actually posting a calculation of benefits denied. If someone (maybe you) could make a concrete estimate of lost wages blacks were denied, plus interest, you might find a better reception for you claims.

I dont think whites would ever be receptive to any figure. Its easily in the trillions. Also its not a perceived hurt. Its a real theft of wages which have never been paid. I am not looking for better reception. I dont care how whites feel about it. My argument is that its owed. Whites are unethical so I expect them to never want this country to pay its debts to Blacks because it would erase their white only AA that went on for centuries and one of the primary reasons the economic gap exists today. Hell congress cant even pass a bill to research the issue. Congress is controlled by whites.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Here is a piece I found.
How America Should Pay Reparations

Thank you. There are good points there, but leaves it up to individuals to determine their qualification, and to determine the amount acceptable to each. At least once (that I know of), such a program of reparation has been implemented and paid for: Black Farmers to Receive Payouts in $1.2 Billion from Federal Lawsuit. It was fraught with fraud and abuse and left too many legitimate claimants unrewarded.
I'm actually looking for your calculations and how you determine them. Do you not consider the myriad of other programs, like Affirmative Action, that addressed past discrimination, to have been at least partially helpful?

The Black Farmers payout didnt have anything to do with slavery. That was a seperate issue.

"This is the second round of funding for black farmers. Thousands received payments in 1999 as part of a settlement in a class-action suit over allegations of widespread discrimination by federal officials who denied loans and other assistance to black farmers because of their race."

I havent made any calculations simply because I think its futile to waste time on something whites will fight to their dying breath. As long as whites control the system its not going to happen.

Why would I consider AA when AA has not been a Black only benefit? Matter of fact white women are the largest beneficiaries of AA which has increased the economic gap between whites and Blacks. There simply has never ever been a payout for the lost wages Blacks were denied during slavery.

I think that more people would be more receptive if provided some definite numbers. A vague claim of "some" money for "some" perceived hurt is probably much less helpful than someone actually posting a calculation of benefits denied. If someone (maybe you) could make a concrete estimate of lost wages blacks were denied, plus interest, you might find a better reception for you claims.

I dont think whites would ever be receptive to any figure. Its easily in the trillions. Also its not a perceived hurt. Its a real theft of wages which have never been paid. I am not looking for better reception. I dont care how whites feel about it. My argument is that its owed. Whites are unethical so I expect them to never want this country to pay its debts to Blacks because it would erase their white only AA that went on for centuries and one of the primary reasons the economic gap exists today.

As a native american, I know you will be disappointed, Or maybe not. You agree that you expect no better reception they you receive. Oh, and given limited Federal funding, who do you think is owed the first round of retributions, blacks or native americans?

 

[Asclepias]

Here is another interesting link for the curious.

We Absolutely Could Give Reparations To Black People. Here's How. | HuffPost

 

[Meathead]

What would you estimate the value of slavery in the US to have been?
Specifically, if reparations were to be made for slavery, how much would you estimate the value of lost wages plus interest to be? Please be specific. What pay scale would you propose be used, and what amount of interest?
Who would you propose be paid reparations for slavery in the US?
And, who would you propose pay into the fund to be dispersed to those deemed recipients of said reparations?

The value of the lives of slaves was far higher than the lives of their descendants today.

 

[Asclepias]

Here is a piece I found.
How America Should Pay Reparations

Thank you. There are good points there, but leaves it up to individuals to determine their qualification, and to determine the amount acceptable to each. At least once (that I know of), such a program of reparation has been implemented and paid for: Black Farmers to Receive Payouts in $1.2 Billion from Federal Lawsuit. It was fraught with fraud and abuse and left too many legitimate claimants unrewarded.
I'm actually looking for your calculations and how you determine them. Do you not consider the myriad of other programs, like Affirmative Action, that addressed past discrimination, to have been at least partially helpful?

The Black Farmers payout didnt have anything to do with slavery. That was a seperate issue.

"This is the second round of funding for black farmers. Thousands received payments in 1999 as part of a settlement in a class-action suit over allegations of widespread discrimination by federal officials who denied loans and other assistance to black farmers because of their race."

I havent made any calculations simply because I think its futile to waste time on something whites will fight to their dying breath. As long as whites control the system its not going to happen.

Why would I consider AA when AA has not been a Black only benefit? Matter of fact white women are the largest beneficiaries of AA which has increased the economic gap between whites and Blacks. There simply has never ever been a payout for the lost wages Blacks were denied during slavery.

I think that more people would be more receptive if provided some definite numbers. A vague claim of "some" money for "some" perceived hurt is probably much less helpful than someone actually posting a calculation of benefits denied. If someone (maybe you) could make a concrete estimate of lost wages blacks were denied, plus interest, you might find a better reception for you claims.

I dont think whites would ever be receptive to any figure. Its easily in the trillions. Also its not a perceived hurt. Its a real theft of wages which have never been paid. I am not looking for better reception. I dont care how whites feel about it. My argument is that its owed. Whites are unethical so I expect them to never want this country to pay its debts to Blacks because it would erase their white only AA that went on for centuries and one of the primary reasons the economic gap exists today.

As a native american, I know you will be disappointed, Or maybe not. You agree that you expect no better reception they you receive. Oh, and given limited Federal funding, who do you think is owed the first round of retributions, blacks or native americans?

I would say Blacks and only because native americans have already received payouts directly related to their issues with the US.. Federal funding isnt limited until the US disappears. Each year the US takes in taxes. Also not having it all isnt an excuse to not begin payment. Thats called being a bum and not addressing your debt..

 

[Rambunctious]

What would you estimate the value of slavery in the US to have been?
Specifically, if reparations were to be made for slavery, how much would you estimate the value of lost wages plus interest to be? Please be specific. What pay scale would you propose be used, and what amount of interest?
Who would you propose be paid reparations for slavery in the US?
And, who would you propose pay into the fund to be dispersed to those deemed recipients of said reparations?

Minus their room and board and medical care......

 

[Rambunctious]

If any of you could find a living former slave...let me know...I'll give whatever he or she needs....

 

[Asclepias]

What would you estimate the value of slavery in the US to have been?
Specifically, if reparations were to be made for slavery, how much would you estimate the value of lost wages plus interest to be? Please be specific. What pay scale would you propose be used, and what amount of interest?
Who would you propose be paid reparations for slavery in the US?
And, who would you propose pay into the fund to be dispersed to those deemed recipients of said reparations?

Minus their room and board and medical care......

Expenses incurred as a result of depriving people of their wages is not applicable to the equation.

 

[Asclepias]

If any of you could find a living former slave...let me know...I'll give whatever he or she needs....

You cant afford it. Youre on welfare as it is and the obligation is the US governments to rectify.

 

[Rambunctious]

Expenses incurred as a result of depriving people of their wages is not applicable to the equation

The fact that they are all dead is applicable....

 

[Asclepias]

Expenses incurred as a result of depriving people of their wages is not applicable to the equation

The fact that they are all dead is applicable....

Only if you dont understand what an estate is. Obviously you lack the knowledge but thats not something everyone didnt already know about you.

 

[Rambunctious]

Only if you dont understand what an estate is. Obviously you lack the knowledge but thats not something everyone didnt already know about you

I have an ancestor that was killed on his farm in New Hampshire by British Red coats....do I qualify for reparations?

 

[Asclepias]

Only if you dont understand what an estate is. Obviously you lack the knowledge but thats not something everyone didnt already know about you

I have an ancestor that was killed on his farm in New Hampshire by British Red coats....do I qualify for reparations?

Ask the British courts or better yet your attorney. What does that have to do with my point?

 

[TNHarley]

The value of lost wages to a dead person is $0 USD

Completely untrue. Wages owed at the time of death are still owed to the decedant's estate or benficiary.

Oh ok lol. I didnt know slave holders were still alive! My bad.
Someone call guiness book of world records!

 

[Rambunctious]

Ask the British courts or better yet your attorney. What does that have to do with my point?

There is no one alive today that needs reparations for some poor soul that was held in slavery 200 years ago.....the entire notion is ridiculous...thank God Trump is placing common sense back onto the courts.....

 

[Asclepias]

Ask the British courts or better yet your attorney. What does that have to do with my point?

There is no one alive today that needs reparations for some poor soul that was held in slavery 200 years ago.....the entire notion is ridiculous...thank God Trump is placing common sense back onto the courts.....

No one asked for your opinion on if anyone was entitled to reparations. This discussion concerns the amount.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Governed by current wage laws of the time referred to, what where those amounts minimum wage, overtime, off-the-clock, etc, at the time when such wages were earned? Do you want to go into a state-by-state analysis of the time period?

As I indicated I just posted the information about wage theft to illustrate the point, that not only is it unethical to get people to work for you and then not pay them, but that it's unlawful as well and a significant current day problem.

I didn't have time to properly research this but did a quick perusal of a couple of these pages which you might find useful:

Google search on "what was the average salary in 1776?"
https://eml.berkeley.edu/~webfac/cromer/e211_f12/LindertWilliamson.pdf
Statistics of the United States, (including mortality, property, &c.,) in 1860 : comp. from the original returns and being the final exhibit of the eighth ...
Laborers' Average Hourly Rate of Wages, Weighted for United States

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

There is no one alive today that needs reparations for some poor soul that was held in slavery 200 years ago.....the entire notion is ridiculous...thank God Trump is placing common sense back onto the courts.....

I have a cousin who was born in 1888 and passed away in 1987. The adults in her life, including her own parents were born into a time when black people were still being held as slaves. I met her before she passed away so even though I've never met anyone who was actually a slave, I have met with individuals who had family members who were held in slavery therefore for me this does not seem like "ancient" history.

My cousin along with one of her daughters wrote a book entitled "Lemon Swamp and Other Places". The following was written about the author (Mamie Garvin Fields) and the photograph following the text is the plantation from which my famility descended which is mentioned in the book.

Overview
Lemon Swamp and Other Places: A Carolina Memoir by Mamie Garvin Fields, Karen E. Fields

Mamie Garvin Fields was born in Charleston, South Carolina in 1888. Though black, her family was gifted and she grew up not among house servants or sharecroppers but among artisans and professionals.

In LEMON SWAMP, she looks back on this all-but-forgotten community of friends and family, and on the wider social landscape of the segregationist South of her youth.

"LEMON SWAMP is wonderful. I think anyone interested in Southern history, black history, Charleston, or the struggles of women in society will find it thoroughly engaging." --Ernest Hollings, U.S. Senator

Middleton Place National Historic Landmark House Museum, Restaurant, Stable Yards & Gardens

 

[there4eyeM]

All the soldiers who died in the American Civil War.
The error of slavery cost America dear.
Debt paid.