The USA Of Hate

[007]

And I see everyone else has had enough sense to stay the hell out of this thread.

They see all they're doing in here is...

 

[Sky Dancer]

I won't respond to what you're saying if you don't respond to what I've said. This will never get anywhere... I quit.

You seem to have an already predisposed opinion about islam. You're in favor of it coming to America and you welcome it with open arms. I DON'T!

I guess I'll leave it at that on this issue with you.

You miss Madeline's point. Muslims are already living in America and free to practice their faith.

What is YOUR problem with that?

I'm not missing jack shit. I know exactly what she's saying.

However, she is missing MY point. You notice that? No. You're a liberal too and you don't turn on your kind....

I don't 'turn on my kind'? What is my kind? Is the world divided into 'your kind' and 'my kind'?

Not for me.

 

[Madeline]

Americans are free to practice the faith they wish, Pale. Are you prepared to deprive your fellow citizens of that right? Not all of us are christians....though doubtless there will always be a majority who are.

Why do you have so little faith in our constitution?

I won't respond to what you're saying if you don't respond to what I've said. This will never get anywhere... I quit.

You seem to have an already predisposed opinion about islam. You're in favor of it coming to America and you welcome it with open arms. I DON'T!

I guess I'll leave it at that on this issue with you.

You miss Madeline's point. Muslims are already living in America and free to practice their faith.

What is YOUR problem with that?

No, Pale I do not favor any change in our immigration laws that would make it easier for a citizen of the Middle East to move here. I support an immigration policy that would scrutinize every visa application from such a person in an extreme way, with few if any granted. I cannot imagine there would ever be a time that American Muslims would be more than a tiny minority -- but I do think that law abiding Muslims should enjoy the same constitutional rights as you, or I or any other American.

No more, but no less.

If you oppose freedom of religion for American Muslims, I'd be interested in hearing why -- and how you envision altering the constitution to accomplish this.

 

[Madeline]

I won't respond to what you're saying if you don't respond to what I've said. This will never get anywhere... I quit.

You seem to have an already predisposed opinion about islam. You're in favor of it coming to America and you welcome it with open arms. I DON'T!

I guess I'll leave it at that on this issue with you.

You miss Madeline's point. Muslims are already living in America and free to practice their faith.

What is YOUR problem with that?

I'm not missing jack shit. I know exactly what she's saying.

However, she is missing MY point. You notice that? No. You're a liberal too and you don't turn on your kind....

I am not a "liberal", Pale. I am merely a patriot...I have faith in my nation's ability to tolerate diversity.

 

[midcan5]

"Character is the result of a system of stereotyped principals." David Hume

OT but hopeful.

Naif Al-Mutawa: Superheroes inspired by Islam | Video on TED.com

 

[JakeStarkey]

No, Pale Rider, you are riding around on a merry go round with your thumb shoved up your ass.

Muslims have a right to practice their religion. So do you. You get no more of a pass than they do, or than I do, or than Madeline does.

You got that?

 

[William Joyce]

I suspect I won't recognize my country when y'all get done making these changes.

I don't recognize my country NOW, and it isn't because of "Islamophobes."

 

[Madeline]

I suspect I won't recognize my country when y'all get done making these changes.

I don't recognize my country NOW, and it isn't because of "Islamophobes."

Poor William Joyce. Lost, eh?

 

[Flopper]

I don't think those that hate Muslims want to change the 1st amendment. They just want to ignore it.

 

[Foxfyre]

This week there was a big bru ha ha on "The View" when two of the members walked out on Bill O'Reilly who committed the apparently unpardonable sin of pointing out that it was Muslim extremists who attacked us on 9/11 and that a mosque within the parameter of ground zero was inappropriate. His reasoning was the same as mine as been: most Muslims are not extremists and most are peaceful BUT. . .until they are willing to stand up and openly and publicly denounce things like 9/11 and other Islamic terrorist attacks, they are part of the problem.

A few do publcly denounce terrorism. Most don't, and poll after poll in Islamic countries find majorities standing with the terrorists. Even American Muslims are not widely vocal or critical of Islamic violence around the world. That should be of concern to everybody as the numbers increase.

We certainly would not be supportive nor would we shrug our shoulders and say 'Oh well' if a group like Westboro Baptist were recruiting large numbers and wanting to build churches near war cemetaries and memorials. We would all agree they had a perfectly legal right to do so, but public pressure and protest would be brought to bear just the same.

Amercan Muslims deserve every protection and right as any other citizen. They should not be immune to criticism and public disapproval any more than any other group however, and those who disapprove Muslim bad acts or bad attitudes should not be condemned for their point of view any more than if that point of view was directed at Westboro Baptists.

 

[Flopper]

This week there was a big bru ha ha on "The View" when two of the members walked out on Bill O'Reilly who committed the apparently unpardonable sin of pointing out that it was Muslim extremists who attacked us on 9/11 and that a mosque within the parameter of ground zero was inappropriate. His reasoning was the same as mine as been: most Muslims are not extremists and most are peaceful BUT. . .until they are willing to stand up and openly and publicly denounce things like 9/11 and other Islamic terrorist attacks, they are part of the problem.

A few do publcly denounce terrorism. Most don't, and poll after poll in Islamic countries find majorities standing with the terrorists. Even American Muslims are not widely vocal or critical of Islamic violence around the world. That should be of concern to everybody as the numbers increase.

We certainly would not be supportive nor would we shrug our shoulders and say 'Oh well' if a group like Westboro Baptist were recruiting large numbers and wanting to build churches near war cemetaries and memorials. We would all agree they had a perfectly legal right to do so, but public pressure and protest would be brought to bear just the same.

Amercan Muslims deserve every protection and right as any other citizen. They should not be immune to criticism and public disapproval any more than any other group however, and those who disapprove Muslim bad acts or bad attitudes should not be condemned for their point of view any more than if that point of view was directed at Westboro Baptists.

Nope
Those who think that Muslim countries and pro-terrorist attitudes go hand-in-hand might be shocked by new polling research: Americans are more approving of terrorist attacks against civilians than any major Muslim country except for Nigeria.

The survey, conducted in December 2006 by the University of Maryland's prestigious Program on International Public Attitudes, shows that only 46 percent of Americans think that "bombing and other attacks intentionally aimed at civilians" are "never justified," while 24 percent believe these attacks are "often or sometimes justified."

Contrast those numbers with 2006 polling results from the world's most-populous Muslim countries – Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Nigeria. Terror Free Tomorrow, the organization I lead, found that 74 percent of respondents in Indonesia agreed that terrorist attacks are "never justified"; in Pakistan, that figure was 86 percent; in Bangladesh, 81 percent.

The myth of Muslim support for terror / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com

 

[Foxfyre]

This week there was a big bru ha ha on "The View" when two of the members walked out on Bill O'Reilly who committed the apparently unpardonable sin of pointing out that it was Muslim extremists who attacked us on 9/11 and that a mosque within the parameter of ground zero was inappropriate. His reasoning was the same as mine as been: most Muslims are not extremists and most are peaceful BUT. . .until they are willing to stand up and openly and publicly denounce things like 9/11 and other Islamic terrorist attacks, they are part of the problem.

A few do publcly denounce terrorism. Most don't, and poll after poll in Islamic countries find majorities standing with the terrorists. Even American Muslims are not widely vocal or critical of Islamic violence around the world. That should be of concern to everybody as the numbers increase.

We certainly would not be supportive nor would we shrug our shoulders and say 'Oh well' if a group like Westboro Baptist were recruiting large numbers and wanting to build churches near war cemetaries and memorials. We would all agree they had a perfectly legal right to do so, but public pressure and protest would be brought to bear just the same.

Amercan Muslims deserve every protection and right as any other citizen. They should not be immune to criticism and public disapproval any more than any other group however, and those who disapprove Muslim bad acts or bad attitudes should not be condemned for their point of view any more than if that point of view was directed at Westboro Baptists.

Nope
Those who think that Muslim countries and pro-terrorist attitudes go hand-in-hand might be shocked by new polling research: Americans are more approving of terrorist attacks against civilians than any major Muslim country except for Nigeria.

The survey, conducted in December 2006 by the University of Maryland's prestigious Program on International Public Attitudes, shows that only 46 percent of Americans think that "bombing and other attacks intentionally aimed at civilians" are "never justified," while 24 percent believe these attacks are "often or sometimes justified."

Contrast those numbers with 2006 polling results from the world's most-populous Muslim countries – Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Nigeria. Terror Free Tomorrow, the organization I lead, found that 74 percent of respondents in Indonesia agreed that terrorist attacks are "never justified"; in Pakistan, that figure was 86 percent; in Bangladesh, 81 percent.

The myth of Muslim support for terror / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com

I'm not buying it. I don't believe the average American supports terrorism at all. I have simply talked in person to too many Muslims, chatted on line in this kind of forum and in chat rooms with too many Muslims, worked and played with too many Muslims, and watched too many prominent Muslim interviews on television to believe that Muslims widely condemn terrorist acts committed by Muslims. Lack of support for that is tepid and non committal and non forceful. Probably that is mostly due to the fact that they fear other Muslims if they speak out forcefully.

Again most Muslims are not openly pro-terrorism. But most Muslims also don't openly oppose it. Even our USMB Muslim members don't deny that the Qu'ran intends that the whole world will be subject to Allah. And they don't deny that the Qu'ran condones killing any infidels (i.e. non-believers) as necessary to accomplish that.

 

[Flopper]

This week there was a big bru ha ha on "The View" when two of the members walked out on Bill O'Reilly who committed the apparently unpardonable sin of pointing out that it was Muslim extremists who attacked us on 9/11 and that a mosque within the parameter of ground zero was inappropriate. His reasoning was the same as mine as been: most Muslims are not extremists and most are peaceful BUT. . .until they are willing to stand up and openly and publicly denounce things like 9/11 and other Islamic terrorist attacks, they are part of the problem.

A few do publcly denounce terrorism. Most don't, and poll after poll in Islamic countries find majorities standing with the terrorists. Even American Muslims are not widely vocal or critical of Islamic violence around the world. That should be of concern to everybody as the numbers increase.

We certainly would not be supportive nor would we shrug our shoulders and say 'Oh well' if a group like Westboro Baptist were recruiting large numbers and wanting to build churches near war cemetaries and memorials. We would all agree they had a perfectly legal right to do so, but public pressure and protest would be brought to bear just the same.

Amercan Muslims deserve every protection and right as any other citizen. They should not be immune to criticism and public disapproval any more than any other group however, and those who disapprove Muslim bad acts or bad attitudes should not be condemned for their point of view any more than if that point of view was directed at Westboro Baptists.

Nope
Those who think that Muslim countries and pro-terrorist attitudes go hand-in-hand might be shocked by new polling research: Americans are more approving of terrorist attacks against civilians than any major Muslim country except for Nigeria.

The survey, conducted in December 2006 by the University of Maryland's prestigious Program on International Public Attitudes, shows that only 46 percent of Americans think that "bombing and other attacks intentionally aimed at civilians" are "never justified," while 24 percent believe these attacks are "often or sometimes justified."

Contrast those numbers with 2006 polling results from the world's most-populous Muslim countries – Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Nigeria. Terror Free Tomorrow, the organization I lead, found that 74 percent of respondents in Indonesia agreed that terrorist attacks are "never justified"; in Pakistan, that figure was 86 percent; in Bangladesh, 81 percent.

The myth of Muslim support for terror / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com

I'm not buying it. I don't believe the average American supports terrorism at all. I have simply talked in person to too many Muslims, chatted on line in this kind of forum and in chat rooms with too many Muslims, worked and played with too many Muslims, and watched too many prominent Muslim interviews on television to believe that Muslims widely condemn terrorist acts committed by Muslims. Lack of support for that is tepid and non committal and non forceful. Probably that is mostly due to the fact that they fear other Muslims if they speak out forcefully.

Again most Muslims are not openly pro-terrorism. But most Muslims also don't openly oppose it. Even our USMB Muslim members don't deny that the Qu'ran intends that the whole world will be subject to Allah. And they don't deny that the Qu'ran condones killing any infidels (i.e. non-believers) as necessary to accomplish that.

I think you need to consider that there are about 1.5 billion Muslims in the world. So even though you might read of millions of Muslim's support for terrorism, that is a very small percentage.

There are plenty of Muslims that condemn terrorism. It's just their voices are drowned out by the growing anti-Muslim feeling.

A large segment of the Muslim world supports the Palestinians in their struggles against Israel. That support is often framed as a support for terrorism.

 

[Si modo]

Let's see: Palestine led by a terrorist organization, support for them is support for terrorism.

Yup, I'm OK with that.

 

[Flopper]

Let's see: Palestine led by a terrorist organization, support for them is support for terrorism.

Yup, I'm OK with that.

Support for terrorism is probably strongest among the Palestinians. Although I condemn their terrorist activities, I can certain understand why they feel the way they do. If we Americans were booted out our country and lived in refugee camps for years we might just feel the same as they do.

 

[JakeStarkey]

This week there was a big bru ha ha on "The View" when two of the members walked out on Bill O'Reilly who committed the apparently unpardonable sin of pointing out that it was Muslim extremists who attacked us on 9/11 and that a mosque within the parameter of ground zero was inappropriate. His reasoning was the same as mine as been: most Muslims are not extremists and most are peaceful BUT. . .until they are willing to stand up and openly and publicly denounce things like 9/11 and other Islamic terrorist attacks, they are part of the problem.

A few do publcly denounce terrorism. Most don't, and poll after poll in Islamic countries find majorities standing with the terrorists. Even American Muslims are not widely vocal or critical of Islamic violence around the world. That should be of concern to everybody as the numbers increase.

We certainly would not be supportive nor would we shrug our shoulders and say 'Oh well' if a group like Westboro Baptist were recruiting large numbers and wanting to build churches near war cemetaries and memorials. We would all agree they had a perfectly legal right to do so, but public pressure and protest would be brought to bear just the same.

Amercan Muslims deserve every protection and right as any other citizen. They should not be immune to criticism and public disapproval any more than any other group however, and those who disapprove Muslim bad acts or bad attitudes should not be condemned for their point of view any more than if that point of view was directed at Westboro Baptists.

BO is an entertainer and a very good one. So is Whoopi but sometimes a screw ball. She was this time. Yes, the Muslims have the right to build the mosque there, and, no, concerning the emotional pulse of the country, this is not the right time.

I know Sunni Muslims, and those who are born here are firmly American in terms of civil liberties. When asked generally why they won't condemn other Muslims' atrocities, they have told me flatly, "Because they are Muslim." They won't discuss it beyond that.

Such thinking reminds of the good old boys I met so long ago told me, when I asked why the were so against integrated schools, that "if you can't understand that, I can't explain it."

Maybe another generation or two of Muslims being born here may undo the mistakes of the current generation here concerning this issue.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Let's see: Palestine led by a terrorist organization, support for them is support for terrorism.

Yup, I'm OK with that.

Support for terrorism is probably strongest among the Palestinians. Although I condemn their terrorist activities, I can certain understand why they feel the way they do. If we Americans were booted out our country and lived in refugee camps for years we might just feel the same as they do.

"Booted out of our country"? They didn't HAVE a country. There's never been a country named "Palestine". And by the way, my understanding is that Israel has been MORE accommodating to them than any of the Muslim countries in the area.

 

[Si modo]

Let's see: Palestine led by a terrorist organization, support for them is support for terrorism.

Yup, I'm OK with that.

Support for terrorism is probably strongest among the Palestinians. Although I condemn their terrorist activities, I can certain understand why they feel the way they do. If we Americans were booted out our country and lived in refugee camps for years we might just feel the same as they do.

Feel free to speak to how YOU would feel. Just don't include me. At all.

 

[Madeline]

This week there was a big bru ha ha on "The View" when two of the members walked out on Bill O'Reilly who committed the apparently unpardonable sin of pointing out that it was Muslim extremists who attacked us on 9/11 and that a mosque within the parameter of ground zero was inappropriate. His reasoning was the same as mine as been: most Muslims are not extremists and most are peaceful BUT. . .until they are willing to stand up and openly and publicly denounce things like 9/11 and other Islamic terrorist attacks, they are part of the problem.

A few do publcly denounce terrorism. Most don't, and poll after poll in Islamic countries find majorities standing with the terrorists. Even American Muslims are not widely vocal or critical of Islamic violence around the world. That should be of concern to everybody as the numbers increase.

We certainly would not be supportive nor would we shrug our shoulders and say 'Oh well' if a group like Westboro Baptist were recruiting large numbers and wanting to build churches near war cemetaries and memorials. We would all agree they had a perfectly legal right to do so, but public pressure and protest would be brought to bear just the same.

Amercan Muslims deserve every protection and right as any other citizen. They should not be immune to criticism and public disapproval any more than any other group however, and those who disapprove Muslim bad acts or bad attitudes should not be condemned for their point of view any more than if that point of view was directed at Westboro Baptists.

BO is an entertainer and a very good one. So is Whoopi but sometimes a screw ball. She was this time. Yes, the Muslims have the right to build the mosque there, and, no, concerning the emotional pulse of the country, this is not the right time.

I know Sunni Muslims, and those who are born here are firmly American in terms of civil liberties. When asked generally why they won't condemn other Muslims' atrocities, they have told me flatly, "Because they are Muslim." They won't discuss it beyond that.

Such thinking reminds of the good old boys I met so long ago told me, when I asked why the were so against integrated schools, that "if you can't understand that, I can't explain it."

Maybe another generation or two of Muslims being born here may undo the mistakes of the current generation here concerning this issue.

Jake, hand to heart -- forty, fifty years ago I used to hear people say "yes, they have a right to [run for president][live in my neighborhood][vote][run their own companies][etc.] but NOW IS NOT THE RIGHT TIME."

Trust me....the time is never gonna be right. Muslims make most Americans uncomfy and nervous. They want special accommodations, like wearing odd clothes or taking off for holidays we have never heard of before. They remind us of terrorism, a fact of life we Americans never thought we would have to adjust to on US soil. No one LIKES being made to shove off to make room for the new folks, but this country has done so over and over again....and can do so one more time without loss.

 

[chanel]

And if they want to assimilate and accept our core AMERICAN values, welcome aboard. If they cannot or will not do that, and want America to conform to their rules and their values, fuck em. Move back to the fucking desert or be prepared to take the criticism.