The Upside Down World of Labor Unions

[DGS49]

Amazon Workers Strike at Third Largest Air Hub in US, File Labor Complaint | KQED

This is the second strike by workers at the company's air freight fulfillment center in San Bernardino seeking better pay and protections from job conditions they say are unsafe.

www.kqed.org

I've had many jobs in my life, both crappy and fine, both private sector and public. So I speak with considerable experience.

When you apply for a job, you have some idea of what it is, what it pays, and so on. If you are hired, they explain to you the details of your compensation, benefits, and working conditions. Usually there are some surprises, pleasant and otherwise, but at the latest, within a month you understand what you have gotten yourself into.

If you really don't like it, or if you have a chance to do better someplace else, YOU QUIT and go someplace else.

But not in the dream world of American labor unions. In that dream world you can get the information, take the job, then YEARS later say to the employer, "This is unacceptable!" and demand more money, better benefits, better working conditions, or whatever you like.

How does this work? You have accepted the job knowing all of those things. If it wasn't acceptable, then you shouldn't have taken the job. If you later find out that you can do better someplace else, then GO THERE! What moral, ethical, or legal right do you have to attempt to destroy the business because you changed your mind?

This phenomenon even goes beyond unions. What about the thousands of people who signed up to be Uber drivers? The paperwork emphasizes that YOU ARE NOT AN EMPLOYEE! You are a contractor. You are responsible for your own taxes, benefits, and working conditions. I went through all of that several years ago, and those things are emphasized over and over again in the paperwork.

Then they go to the State and demand that their status be changed to EMPLOYEE because they don't think this is fair. This is bullshit. If you don't want to be an independent contractor, don't sign the paperwork and don't drive for Uber. If you think you can get a better deal someplace else, then GO THERE!

And the Media, of course, reports these things a "evil employers trying to beat down their employees."

This is also bullshit.

I won't get into people who take out thousands and thousands of dollars in loans to go to school, then...

Well, you know all about it.

Also bullshit.

 

[1srelluc]

Odd....Since I retired I could give two shits about the goings-on in the working world.

 

[Baron Von Murderpaws]

I've also had many jobs, which two of them were union procured jobs.

I can tell you from experience that unions are more corrupt than the Democrats, Libs, Nazis, the legal system, and all CEO's combined!
They give you platitudes to seduce you into their web of lies and lethargy. Then they lie to you about everything they do for you. And if you have a problem with your job or company you work for, it's ALL a fucking puppet show for YOUR benefit......where NOTHING gets done and NOTHING is solved.

They lie, cheat, steal, and manipulate right in your face, and there's NOTHING you can do about it, because the government has given unions in this country Carte Blanche to do as they please. The ONLY time they "do" anything at all, is when their free money flow is questioned or can possibly be halted or stopped.

And the ONLY thing they DO do, is take your money, call it "dues", and sit on their fat, corrupt asses, laughing at all those people who they are supposed to protect and work for..............because also like the goverment, police, and CEOs, they just sit on their fat asses doing as they please, because they have SO many fuktards handing their money over to them every month.

What nice, cushy "job" unions have. If you ever think a union is working on YOUR behalf, I laugh!

 

[pknopp]

We should still be happy working 12 hour days for $2.00 a day.

 

[Flash]

I've also had many jobs, which two of them were union procured jobs.

I can tell you from experience that unions are more corrupt than the Democrats, Libs, Nazis, the legal system, and all CEO's combined!
They give you platitudes to seduce you into their web of lies and lethargy. Then they lie to you about everything they do for you. And if you have a problem with your job or company you work for, it's ALL a fucking puppet show for YOUR benefit......where NOTHING gets done and NOTHING is solved.

They lie, cheat, steal, and manipulate right in your face, and there's NOTHING you can do about it, because the government has given unions in this country Carte Blanche to do as they please. The ONLY time they "do" anything at all, is when their free money flow is questioned or can possibly be halted or stopped.

And the ONLY thing they DO do, is take your money, call it "dues", and sit on their fat, corrupt asses, laughing at all those people who they are supposed to protect and work for..............because also like the goverment, police, and CEOs, they just sit on their fat asses doing as they please, because they have SO many fuktards handing their money over to them every month.

What nice, cushy "job" unions have. If you ever think a union is working on YOUR behalf, I laugh!

I managed Union workers in a filthy Non Right To Work state. I had 200 workers in my division and half of them were Union hourly and half salaried.

I could tell you many stores about how corrupt the greedy the Union and Union workers were. How the Union employees took unfair advantage of the Union rules to be lazy and greedy. How the Union protected the shitheads.

To me Unions are scum. No wonder they are one of the main scumbag special interest groups of the despicable Democrat Party.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Amazon Workers Strike at Third Largest Air Hub in US, File Labor Complaint | KQED

This is the second strike by workers at the company's air freight fulfillment center in San Bernardino seeking better pay and protections from job conditions they say are unsafe.

www.kqed.org

I've had many jobs in my life, both crappy and fine, both private sector and public. So I speak with considerable experience.

When you apply for a job, you have some idea of what it is, what it pays, and so on. If you are hired, they explain to you the details of your compensation, benefits, and working conditions. Usually there are some surprises, pleasant and otherwise, but at the latest, within a month you understand what you have gotten yourself into.

If you really don't like it, or if you have a chance to do better someplace else, YOU QUIT and go someplace else.

But not in the dream world of American labor unions. In that dream world you can get the information, take the job, then YEARS later say to the employer, "This is unacceptable!" and demand more money, better benefits, better working conditions, or whatever you like.

How does this work? You have accepted the job knowing all of those things. If it wasn't acceptable, then you shouldn't have taken the job. If you later find out that you can do better someplace else, then GO THERE! What moral, ethical, or legal right do you have to attempt to destroy the business because you changed your mind?

This phenomenon even goes beyond unions. What about the thousands of people who signed up to be Uber drivers? The paperwork emphasizes that YOU ARE NOT AN EMPLOYEE! You are a contractor. You are responsible for your own taxes, benefits, and working conditions. I went through all of that several years ago, and those things are emphasized over and over again in the paperwork.

Then they go to the State and demand that their status be changed to EMPLOYEE because they don't think this is fair. This is bullshit. If you don't want to be an independent contractor, don't sign the paperwork and don't drive for Uber. If you think you can get a better deal someplace else, then GO THERE!

And the Media, of course, reports these things a "evil employers trying to beat down their employees."

This is also bullshit.

I won't get into people who take out thousands and thousands of dollars in loans to go to school, then...

Well, you know all about it.

Also bullshit.

Decline in the influence of unions has led directly to worse conditions for working people. Without a union the workers generally get shafted.

 

[Baron Von Murderpaws]

Decline in the influence of unions has led directly to worse conditions for working people. Without a union the workers generally get shafted.

Here we go................with people in other countries thinking they know more than those who actually live here!!!!

If you think union workers get paid more than anybody else, you are a FUCKING MORON!!!

 

[Manonthestreet]

Teamsters are about $6 an hr behind me in MN

 

[Moonglow]

Amazon Workers Strike at Third Largest Air Hub in US, File Labor Complaint | KQED

This is the second strike by workers at the company's air freight fulfillment center in San Bernardino seeking better pay and protections from job conditions they say are unsafe.

www.kqed.org

I've had many jobs in my life, both crappy and fine, both private sector and public. So I speak with considerable experience.

When you apply for a job, you have some idea of what it is, what it pays, and so on. If you are hired, they explain to you the details of your compensation, benefits, and working conditions. Usually there are some surprises, pleasant and otherwise, but at the latest, within a month you understand what you have gotten yourself into.

If you really don't like it, or if you have a chance to do better someplace else, YOU QUIT and go someplace else.

But not in the dream world of American labor unions. In that dream world you can get the information, take the job, then YEARS later say to the employer, "This is unacceptable!" and demand more money, better benefits, better working conditions, or whatever you like.

How does this work? You have accepted the job knowing all of those things. If it wasn't acceptable, then you shouldn't have taken the job. If you later find out that you can do better someplace else, then GO THERE! What moral, ethical, or legal right do you have to attempt to destroy the business because you changed your mind?

This phenomenon even goes beyond unions. What about the thousands of people who signed up to be Uber drivers? The paperwork emphasizes that YOU ARE NOT AN EMPLOYEE! You are a contractor. You are responsible for your own taxes, benefits, and working conditions. I went through all of that several years ago, and those things are emphasized over and over again in the paperwork.

Then they go to the State and demand that their status be changed to EMPLOYEE because they don't think this is fair. This is bullshit. If you don't want to be an independent contractor, don't sign the paperwork and don't drive for Uber. If you think you can get a better deal someplace else, then GO THERE!

And the Media, of course, reports these things a "evil employers trying to beat down their employees."

This is also bullshit.

I won't get into people who take out thousands and thousands of dollars in loans to go to school, then...

Well, you know all about it.

Also bullshit.

I see zero problems with negotiating working conditions with the owners or bosses. I do see problems with bosses or leaaders who refuse to negotiate.

 

[Moonglow]

Decline in the influence of unions has led directly to worse conditions for working people. Without a union the workers generally get shafted.

True, but not always. Companies are trying to get out of labor laws and have ever since I have worked for a living. Usually pay is not greater it is just the ability to extend benefits not provided by the employer.

 

[DGS49]

Fewer than ten percent of American private-sector workers are union members. The companies that had "strong unions" are mostly out of business or have gone offshore, because they simply could not compete.

Although this is a tangential issue to the thread, it is instructive to look at two large industries in the U.S. that live in "tandem" worlds. I'm speaking of the steel industry and the auto industry. Each of these two industries has a Unionized component, and a non-union component. The UAW-controlled American car industry has been brought under control by a level of automation that, when it works properly, PREVENTS workers from fucking up the product. QC is done electronically, so the workers cannot cheat - which they would do if them could. The non-union American auto industry - all foreign-owned - does fine. No strikes, good wages and benefits, good products. And every time there is an election to see if the workers want a union, the union loses.

The steel industry is broken down into the "mini-mills," none of which has a union, and the "Integrated Steel" industry, led by U.S. Steel in Pittsburgh. For information, the mini-mills take scrap, melt it down and convert it to usable product, while the Integrated steel mills take iron ore, coke, and limestone to make IRON, then convert it to steel, which is generally a higher-quality, and more expensive product than what comes out of the mini-mills.

The mini-mills do fine without unions. The integrated steel mills have only brought the unions under control by technological advances that have reduced the labor component for a ton of steel to a tiny fraction of what it was 30 years ago. Some mills have barely any labor component to making steel. The only labor is equipment maintenance and a few operators who see that the mill continues doing what it was designed to do.

If you said that no company in a competitive industry can survive with a union workforce, you wouldn't be far from completely correct.

 

[Catsnmeters]

I've also had many jobs, which two of them were union procured jobs.

I can tell you from experience that unions are more corrupt than the Democrats, Libs, Nazis, the legal system, and all CEO's combined!
They give you platitudes to seduce you into their web of lies and lethargy. Then they lie to you about everything they do for you. And if you have a problem with your job or company you work for, it's ALL a fucking puppet show for YOUR benefit......where NOTHING gets done and NOTHING is solved.

They lie, cheat, steal, and manipulate right in your face, and there's NOTHING you can do about it, because the government has given unions in this country Carte Blanche to do as they please. The ONLY time they "do" anything at all, is when their free money flow is questioned or can possibly be halted or stopped.

And the ONLY thing they DO do, is take your money, call it "dues", and sit on their fat, corrupt asses, laughing at all those people who they are supposed to protect and work for..............because also like the goverment, police, and CEOs, they just sit on their fat asses doing as they please, because they have SO many fuktards handing their money over to them every month.

What nice, cushy "job" unions have. If you ever think a union is working on YOUR behalf, I laugh!

Interesting. Most Republicans are pretty lockstep in their beliefs but this union thing is an exception.

I would pay good money to see you go up to the Trump loving union linemen that I work with and say that to them. Just make sure you have good medical.

Oh, I would pay good money indeed.

 

[22lcidw]

True, but not always. Companies are trying to get out of labor laws and have ever since I have worked for a living. Usually pay is not greater it is just the ability to extend benefits not provided by the employer.

There are a percentage of unions that protect bums and with contracts from monopolies and government stretch out projects that could be done much quicker without mistreating the employee. There is a need for unions in fields of employment of course. There is a disconnect in living because of this. The trade deals we made has hurt.

 

[busybee01]

Amazon Workers Strike at Third Largest Air Hub in US, File Labor Complaint | KQED

This is the second strike by workers at the company's air freight fulfillment center in San Bernardino seeking better pay and protections from job conditions they say are unsafe.

www.kqed.org

I've had many jobs in my life, both crappy and fine, both private sector and public. So I speak with considerable experience.

When you apply for a job, you have some idea of what it is, what it pays, and so on. If you are hired, they explain to you the details of your compensation, benefits, and working conditions. Usually there are some surprises, pleasant and otherwise, but at the latest, within a month you understand what you have gotten yourself into.

If you really don't like it, or if you have a chance to do better someplace else, YOU QUIT and go someplace else.

But not in the dream world of American labor unions. In that dream world you can get the information, take the job, then YEARS later say to the employer, "This is unacceptable!" and demand more money, better benefits, better working conditions, or whatever you like.

How does this work? You have accepted the job knowing all of those things. If it wasn't acceptable, then you shouldn't have taken the job. If you later find out that you can do better someplace else, then GO THERE! What moral, ethical, or legal right do you have to attempt to destroy the business because you changed your mind?

This phenomenon even goes beyond unions. What about the thousands of people who signed up to be Uber drivers? The paperwork emphasizes that YOU ARE NOT AN EMPLOYEE! You are a contractor. You are responsible for your own taxes, benefits, and working conditions. I went through all of that several years ago, and those things are emphasized over and over again in the paperwork.

Then they go to the State and demand that their status be changed to EMPLOYEE because they don't think this is fair. This is bullshit. If you don't want to be an independent contractor, don't sign the paperwork and don't drive for Uber. If you think you can get a better deal someplace else, then GO THERE!

And the Media, of course, reports these things a "evil employers trying to beat down their employees."

This is also bullshit.

I won't get into people who take out thousands and thousands of dollars in loans to go to school, then...

Well, you know all about it.

Also bullshit.

You are the only bullshit around here. There is absolutely nothing wrong with workers standing up for their rights. Labor unions are the great equalizers and the lack of unions is why the rich are getting richer and everyone else is getting poorer.

We know about student loan companies. They cheated their customers by placing people into deferments instead of income-based repayment plans. Some Democrat AGs sued these companies. Republicans could care less. Biden was right to say that student loans should be dischargeable in bankruptcy court. This evens things out.

 

[Catsnmeters]

Here we go................with people in other countries thinking they know more than those who actually live here!!!!

If you think union workers get paid more than anybody else, you are a FUCKING MORON!!!

I think union workers generally get more when considering pay, benefits and working conditions combined...but if it helps, I think your ultimatum is cute.

 

[busybee01]

Here we go................with people in other countries thinking they know more than those who actually live here!!!!

If you think union workers get paid more than anybody else, you are a FUCKING MORON!!!

Unions do even the playing field. Union workers generally are paid better than non-union workers in the same job.

 

[Andrew_Jackson_FTW]

Amazon Workers Strike at Third Largest Air Hub in US, File Labor Complaint | KQED

This is the second strike by workers at the company's air freight fulfillment center in San Bernardino seeking better pay and protections from job conditions they say are unsafe.

www.kqed.org

I've had many jobs in my life, both crappy and fine, both private sector and public. So I speak with considerable experience.

When you apply for a job, you have some idea of what it is, what it pays, and so on. If you are hired, they explain to you the details of your compensation, benefits, and working conditions. Usually there are some surprises, pleasant and otherwise, but at the latest, within a month you understand what you have gotten yourself into.

If you really don't like it, or if you have a chance to do better someplace else, YOU QUIT and go someplace else.

But not in the dream world of American labor unions. In that dream world you can get the information, take the job, then YEARS later say to the employer, "This is unacceptable!" and demand more money, better benefits, better working conditions, or whatever you like.

How does this work? You have accepted the job knowing all of those things. If it wasn't acceptable, then you shouldn't have taken the job. If you later find out that you can do better someplace else, then GO THERE! What moral, ethical, or legal right do you have to attempt to destroy the business because you changed your mind?

This phenomenon even goes beyond unions. What about the thousands of people who signed up to be Uber drivers? The paperwork emphasizes that YOU ARE NOT AN EMPLOYEE! You are a contractor. You are responsible for your own taxes, benefits, and working conditions. I went through all of that several years ago, and those things are emphasized over and over again in the paperwork.

Then they go to the State and demand that their status be changed to EMPLOYEE because they don't think this is fair. This is bullshit. If you don't want to be an independent contractor, don't sign the paperwork and don't drive for Uber. If you think you can get a better deal someplace else, then GO THERE!

And the Media, of course, reports these things a "evil employers trying to beat down their employees."

This is also bullshit.

I won't get into people who take out thousands and thousands of dollars in loans to go to school, then...

Well, you know all about it.

Also bullshit.

hi brother unions could have their problems but historically speaking unions were pro American and pro Christian.

It was the patriotic thing and it was the big business people back in the day who were the problem. Now the big business people I’m not talking about great Americans like Henry Ford or Harvey fire stone even John Rockefeller. Those men were actually wealth creators the problem in America today is we have a number of extremely wealthy people who are wealth takers not wealth makers. They don’t create good jobs like we used to see from Ford motor company General Motors, Bethlehem Steel, republic steel. After six months to a year on the job you were making $30-$35 an hour adjusted for inflation. And that was the American way. Now you have bad people in this country in politics and big business trying to tell you no Americans don’t deserve that money out the high school. …. well that’s not traditional America, that type of view is against traditional American values. If conservatives and Republicans want to see bigger families, stronger families well we need to have strong unions and a strong middle-class.

Millions of steel and auto jobs that paid $30-$40 an hour adjust for inflation have been replaced by nonunion jobs like Tesla and Amazon paying under $20 an hour with no union no pension. No that’s not the American way , if we excepted low wage nonunion jobs that in the 20th century we would not have the strongest military in the world we would not have the strongest economy.

If we did not have unions if we did not have traditional Americans who are proud Christians, union members steel workers than our military would be not number one in the world. Part of the problem though is the American population is not as strong and willing to take to the streets to protest like we did in the 20th century for workers rights. So that is actually giving credit to the Americans of the past who I believe we’re better generation and today’s generation who are lazy and not willing to get things done. We got work to do today’s generation that is

the American way is when we used to have millions of people who got a job at the age of 18 then after six months on the job they got equal pay for equal work and they’re able to buy a house and raise a family of six. People who are against traditional American families and Christianity are the ones against unions so I would say that there’s bad people in the world trying to brainwash you ….you’re a good person you can see how big business can be a problem

In addition why a union might be needed for something like Uber eats because there’s been many examples of customers on Uber making a false complaint against the driver and then the driver gets fired. That is the worst feeling somebody could imagine just imagine being an Uber driver 45 or 55 years old you finally found a job making decent money $20 an hour which of course isn’t really a middle-class wage because our country is not what it used to be….. but yeah so now you’re making $20 an hour you’ve done 20,000 ride all of a sudden you turn on your driver application and you see a message saying you’ve been banned permanently from Uber and you have no idea what’s going on. That is what has happened to so many fellow Americans who drive for Uber. Because of the recklessness in the total lack of care Uber has for its drivers. There’s also been so much violence against Uber drivers including against female Uber drivers who have been murdered by gang members.

 

[Catsnmeters]

Here we go................with people in other countries thinking they know more than those who actually live here!!!!

If you think union workers get paid more than anybody else, you are a FUCKING MORON!!!

Here you go.

The Union Advantage | U.S. Department of Labor

www.dol.gov

 

[Manonthestreet]

Shortage of lineman,,,,,,wonder if it has anything to do with the way they treat newbies, Knew a guy who was an apprentice lineman. Had to drive from north metro to Iowa and back everyday while they fucked with his schedule and head, finally told em to shove it and became a truck driver.

 

[Markle]

We should still be happy working 12 hour days for $2.00 a day.

Unions are not unlike the horse-drawn wagon. They were a great improvement over walking. Today they are less than worthless.