The Ugly Truth about Officer Success(?)

[DGS49]

https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2023/04/15/our_rotten_military_promotion_system_893993.html

One of my jobs when I was a REMF in Vietnam was coordinating Officer Efficiency Reports. Although I was only 20 and had little life experience, it was stunning to me. These officers, some of whom were so bad that they were an embarrassment to the uniform, were getting stunning performance reviews. On every trait, they were rated, "Outstanding," which, according to the instructions, meant that this officer was the best example of that trait that the reviewer had ever known. Every officer got that rating on every trait. It was worse than meaningless.

But it was also obvious that the key to success wasn't being intelligent, dynamic, and showing initiative, it was making your CO look good. In fact, the very traits that civilians think of when they conceptualize the ideal military commander are traits that will result in a failed career, usually retiring at O-5 or so, very frustrated.

And the result of this cult of mediocrity is that the Top Brass is a collection of boot-lapping bureaucrats. This is why there was virtually no push-back when gays were invited to serve openly in the Service, or when "we" foolishly started preparing wimmin for combat arms MOS's. Who would push back? Nobody over the rank of Major, certainly.

Now we have a similar problem at the feeder end of the pipeline. The very same white red-necks who have for the past 80 years been the backbone of the Army and Marine Corps, are so disgusted with what they see that they now have no interest in signing up. We wonder why "we" are not meeting our recruitment goals.

Actually, no we don't. We know exactly why. The Leftists must be purged from the Federal Government, especially DoD. And I don't see that happening in my lifetime. Pray for peace.

 

[Auld Phart]

I remember laughing when they brought up John Kerrys performance records.

 

[shockedcanadian]

https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2023/04/15/our_rotten_military_promotion_system_893993.html

One of my jobs when I was a REMF in Vietnam was coordinating Officer Efficiency Reports. Although I was only 20 and had little life experience, it was stunning to me. These officers, some of whom were so bad that they were an embarrassment to the uniform, were getting stunning performance reviews. On every trait, they were rated, "Outstanding," which, according to the instructions, meant that this officer was the best example of that trait that the reviewer had ever known. Every officer got that rating on every trait. It was worse than meaningless.

But it was also obvious that the key to success wasn't being intelligent, dynamic, and showing initiative, it was making your CO look good. In fact, the very traits that civilians think of when they conceptualize the ideal military commander are traits that will result in a failed career, usually retiring at O-5 or so, very frustrated.

And the result of this cult of mediocrity is that the Top Brass is a collection of boot-lapping bureaucrats. This is why there was virtually no push-back when gays were invited to serve openly in the Service, or when "we" foolishly started preparing wimmin for combat arms MOS's. Who would push back? Nobody over the rank of Major, certainly.

Now we have a similar problem at the feeder end of the pipeline. The very same white red-necks who have for the past 80 years been the backbone of the Army and Marine Corps, are so disgusted with what they see that they now have no interest in signing up. We wonder why "we" are not meeting our recruitment goals.

Actually, no we don't. We know exactly why. The Leftists must be purged from the Federal Government, especially DoD. And I don't see that happening in my lifetime. Pray for peace.

I don't know about the full content of the rest of your post but I do know that Yes Men destroy whatever activity they are involved with.

 

[DGS49]

I don't know about the full content of the rest of your post but I do know that Yes Men destroy whatever activity they are involved with.

Yeah. Like building the Sistine Chapel.

You moron.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Yeah. Like building the Sistine Chapel.

You moron.

Or the pyramids?

How noble....

 

[Mushroom]

Do you think it any better in the NCOER system?

 

[whitehall]

I don't get the point. From what I can gather the KIA statistics in Vietnam for O-2 (1st Lt) was 69% Army and 65% Marines. That's pretty high.

 

[Mushroom]

I don't get the point. From what I can gather the KIA statistics in Vietnam for O-2 (1st Lt) was 69% Army and 65% Marines. That's pretty high.

I imagine at least part of that was the habit of them being targeted out in combat. Not unlike Japan in WWII targeting Corpsmen.

In most Communist armies, the Officer was largely the only leader, as they had little to no "NCO Corps" to fall back on if they fell. The Germans even knew that and targeted Soviet officers for that reason. Kill the Officer, and most Soviet units tended to fall apart. The problem was that generally left the NCO in charge, who likely was much more experienced than the officer was in the first place, and that would not stop US organizations.

In Vietnam they likely targeted officers, not realizing that the US military was not arranged and led in the same manner as they were. Likely expecting to take out the Lieutenant or even Captain and the unit cohesion would dissolve, not realizing the Sergeant or First Sergeant that took over was likely even more experienced.

 

[Augustine_]

But it was also obvious that the key to success wasn't being intelligent, dynamic, and showing initiative, it was making your CO look good.

So it's the same as almost every single job in America then

 

[whitehall]

In basic OCS, candidates are taught to lead and that's what they did in every freaking war since the Revolution. O1 and O2 casualties were high because they were doing their jobs.

 

[DudleySmith]

In the U.S, military it is usually the Company NCOs who trained the 2nd Louies and XO's, after they get their commissions and assigned to their first unit. In WW II there were a lot of battlefield promotions.

Battlefield promotion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It used to be a built in feature of our military; don't know about now, haven't found any stats on Iraq and how many made officer ranks in the field yet, a lot of promotions up one NCO grade seems the norm.

 

[whitehall]

In the U.S, military it is usually the Company NCOs who trained the 2nd Louies and XO's, after they get their commissions and assigned to their first unit. In WW II there were a lot of battlefield promotions.

Battlefield promotion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It used to be a built in feature of our military; don't know about now, haven't found any stats on Iraq and how many made officer ranks in the field yet, a lot of promotions up one NCO grade seems the norm.

The cliche is that combat hardened NCO's taught O1 and O2 Lieutenants how to do their jobs but in reality it was O1 and O2 Lieutenants who taught NCO's to get off their butts and lead small units.

 

[Mushroom]

It used to be a built in feature of our military; don't know about now, haven't found any stats on Iraq and how many made officer ranks in the field yet

None, that ended in the late 1960's with the advent of the current promotion system.

That last I could confirm was Major (retired) Michael Wagers, who was commissioned from First Sergeant to Lieutenant in Vietnam.

 

[Mushroom]

It used to be a built in feature of our military; don't know about now, haven't found any stats on Iraq and how many made officer ranks in the field yet, a lot of promotions up one NCO grade seems the norm.

I wanted to circle back to this, as most really do not understand how that all worked.

Yes, "Battlefield Promotions" or "Brevet" promotions were once a common thing in the US during wartime. But it also is not quite what it sounds like.

Most know of them from WWII, where attrition of officers often saw NCOs promoted into the officer ranks to replace them. However, they were not really "officers", as only the President can promote somebody to an officer rank and position. Even if the individual was a Regular Army soldier, they were entered into holding the officer rank in the Army Reserve. This is because the requirements for an officer in there (as well as the National Guard) are very different than in the Army itself (or any other branch of service). And at the end of the conflict, that individual then has a choice to make.

Of course most after the war simply got out. But if they wanted to remain in the military, they had to either obtain all the requirements of their new rank (generally education), or accept being reduced to their prior rank (adjusted for promotions they might have gotten if they had not been given a battlefield commission). So a Sergeant with a High School diploma might find himself a 1st Lieutenant after a year and a half of fighting. But when the war was done, they would be given a choice of either being "reduced" to Staff Sergeant, keeping their commission in the National Guard, or having to go back to college so they can get a degree and keep their rank.

Most know of Audie Murphy, who in Europe was given a battlefield promotion from Staff Sergeant to 1st Lieutenant. And as a recipient of the Medal of Honor he was entitled to go to West Point. However, his injury also saw him retired from the military so he could not continue his career.

I have one uncle that served in the Army in WWII, and was given a battlefield promotion and rose to Captain during the war. When the war ended he decided to stay in the Army and was administratively reduced to Sergeant First Class. Where he eventually retired as a Sergeant Major, but with the ID card and pay of a Captain as that was the highest rank he held. And it is not unheard of for people who are enlisted in the military now to have been officers in the past. I served with a 58 year old Sergeant in 2010, who had been a Chief Warrant Officer 4. But his warrant was in the Army Reserve, and he had recently retired from being a teacher and decided to spend his last years until 60 getting more retirement points in active duty.

And he pretty much did what he wanted, because they knew he could put in his paperwork and retire at any time, and with the pay of a Major. Even a retired Major made more than an active duty Sergeant. Of course he was also one of the last on Active Duty that could wear the ribbons for service in Vietnam, so everybody knew he was largely to be left alone. The Brigade Commander showed up for his retirement, and stated he was the last Soldier from Fort Bliss that had served in Vietnam. And I want to say at that time one of about a dozen left in the military at that time. I am pretty sure they are all gone now, due to mandatory retirement.

 

[DudleySmith]

I wanted to circle back to this, as most really do not understand how that all worked.

Yes, "Battlefield Promotions" or "Brevet" promotions were once a common thing in the US during wartime. But it also is not quite what it sounds like.

Most know of them from WWII, where attrition of officers often saw NCOs promoted into the officer ranks to replace them. However, they were not really "officers", as only the President can promote somebody to an officer rank and position. Even if the individual was a Regular Army soldier, they were entered into holding the officer rank in the Army Reserve. This is because the requirements for an officer in there (as well as the National Guard) are very different than in the Army itself (or any other branch of service). And at the end of the conflict, that individual then has a choice to make.

Of course most after the war simply got out. But if they wanted to remain in the military, they had to either obtain all the requirements of their new rank (generally education), or accept being reduced to their prior rank (adjusted for promotions they might have gotten if they had not been given a battlefield commission). So a Sergeant with a High School diploma might find himself a 1st Lieutenant after a year and a half of fighting. But when the war was done, they would be given a choice of either being "reduced" to Staff Sergeant, keeping their commission in the National Guard, or having to go back to college so they can get a degree and keep their rank.

Most know of Audie Murphy, who in Europe was given a battlefield promotion from Staff Sergeant to 1st Lieutenant. And as a recipient of the Medal of Honor he was entitled to go to West Point. However, his injury also saw him retired from the military so he could not continue his career.

I have one uncle that served in the Army in WWII, and was given a battlefield promotion and rose to Captain during the war. When the war ended he decided to stay in the Army and was administratively reduced to Sergeant First Class. Where he eventually retired as a Sergeant Major, but with the ID card and pay of a Captain as that was the highest rank he held. And it is not unheard of for people who are enlisted in the military now to have been officers in the past. I served with a 58 year old Sergeant in 2010, who had been a Chief Warrant Officer 4. But his warrant was in the Army Reserve, and he had recently retired from being a teacher and decided to spend his last years until 60 getting more retirement points in active duty.

And he pretty much did what he wanted, because they knew he could put in his paperwork and retire at any time, and with the pay of a Major. Even a retired Major made more than an active duty Sergeant. Of course he was also one of the last on Active Duty that could wear the ribbons for service in Vietnam, so everybody knew he was largely to be left alone. The Brigade Commander showed up for his retirement, and stated he was the last Soldier from Fort Bliss that had served in Vietnam. And I want to say at that time one of about a dozen left in the military at that time. I am pretty sure they are all gone now, due to mandatory retirement.

Another point is that battlefield promotions also include battlefield commissions, which are promotions, but of a different kind; getting an officer's commission is a bit different than just gaining another stripe. In any case, you're right that they seem to have quit handing out battlefield commissions by Viet Nam, and most field promotions since are NCO promotions. I knew this guy, for one example:

https://www.army.mil/article/212410/fort_carson_soldier_earns_battlefield_promotion_in_southern_afghanistan

Reserve and Guard officers can make Bird Colonel on active duty, but when their 28 rolls around they will retire as Master Sergeants. I'm not sure what happens with the few who get to stay in past 28 years, maybe they keep their highest rank, I don't know.