Zone1 The Truth

[Dogmaphobe]

Truly?

Who legitimately won the US presidential election in 2020?

I do not know who truly won the election.

That would require me to be more like you by believing based upon faith.

 

[Snozzberry Crush]

The TRUTH is what people LIE about.

The LIE is what people will go to their graves for, claiming it IS the truth.

 

[Dadoalex]

I do not know who truly won the election.

That would require me to be more like you by believing based upon faith.

If you claim you don't know, you're lying.
to yourself, to me, to everyone on this thread.

You don't need to realize you're lying. It's a defense against the pain of the truth.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

If you claim you don't know, you're lying.
to yourself, to me, to everyone on this thread.

You don't need to realize you're lying. It's a defense against the pain of the truth.

Saying I don't know is the only really honest position to take, here.

Anybody who would call that a lie is obviously quite mentally deficient.

 

[DudleySmith]

Truth is in the eye of the beholder.

lol rubbish. What that nonsense really means is you want your assorted fantasies and revisionism to be taken as just as valid as facts.

 

[Billo_Really]

Your truth is your truth.
The question becomes do you derive truth because
it's what you want to believe despite what you see
it's what you need to believe to justify your actions because we are all the heroes of our own story
or
are you capable of discerning between your truth and the reality around it?

Yes.

 

[playtime]

OK
Trump won in 2020
Inflation is not under control.
The 2020 election was stolen from Trump
CNN is biased but Fox News is "fair and balanced"

All I have to do to find lies, delusions, and misinformation is pick and MAGAT thread.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Dadoalex]

Saying I don't know is the only really honest position to take, here.

Anybody who would call that a lie is obviously quite mentally deficient.

Upon what, verifiable, information di you base your lack of opinion?

Especially since there's dozens of posts from you calling it stolen.

You lied, liar.

 

[Dadoalex]

lol rubbish. What that nonsense really means is you want your assorted fantasies and revisionism to be taken as just as valid as facts.

No.

You see a 2020 election that was stolen because that's what you want to believe.
I see a 2020 election that was,as the Trump administration said, the most secure in history because that's what the evidence tells me.

You can lie to you but you can't lie to me.

 

[otto105]

A truth does not mind being questioned. A lie does not like being challenged. - Brian Weiner

People have challenged the absurd lie on 2020 election fraud. Have the BIG Lie people liked being asked to provide the "truth" in it?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Upon what, verifiable, information di you base your lack of opinion?

Especially since there's dozens of posts from you calling it stolen.
View attachment 810567
You lied, liar.

I am not lying, little boylet who has now called me a liar twice.

It is my opinion that the election was stolen, and this is related to my innate understanding of probability.

When I went to sleep on election night, Trump was leading. When I woke up, I found that he was behind. During the night, no fewer than six states had stopped vote counting and when they resumed, the vote was the opposite of what it was before closure. The mere action of stopping even one state from counting is strange enough. Stopping six states with ALL of them being hotly contested is beyond the pale. In addition, some of these states had more votes cast than there are voters in several democrat strongholds and among populations that NEVER vote in high percentages.

Added together, this is all so improbable as to be nearly a mathematical impossibility.

I do not actually KNOW exactly what happened, so my opinion is still merely opinion, as is yours that everything in the world is exactly what the mainstream media tells you it is. The difference between us is that I am intelligent enough to differentiate between irrefutable fact and opinion and you are not.

 

[otto105]

I am not lying, little boylet who has now called me a liar twice.

It is my opinion that the election was stolen, and this is related to my innate understanding of probability.

When I went to sleep on election night, Trump was leading. When I woke up, I found that he was behind. During the night, no fewer than six states had stopped vote counting and when they resumed, the vote was the opposite of what it was before closure. The mere action of stopping even one state from counting is strange enough. Stopping six states with ALL of them being hotly contested is beyond the pale. In addition, some of these states had more votes cast than there are voters in several democrat strongholds and among populations that NEVER vote in high percentages.

Added together, this is all so improbable as to be nearly a mathematical impossibility.

I do not actually KNOW exactly what happened, so my opinion is still merely opinion, as is yours that everything in the world is exactly what the mainstream media tells you it is. The difference between us is that I am intelligent enough to differentiate between irrefutable fact and opinion and you are not.

Which 6 states are you referring to?

 

[otto105]

I am not lying, little boylet who has now called me a liar twice.

It is my opinion that the election was stolen, and this is related to my innate understanding of probability.

When I went to sleep on election night, Trump was leading. When I woke up, I found that he was behind. During the night, no fewer than six states had stopped vote counting and when they resumed, the vote was the opposite of what it was before closure. The mere action of stopping even one state from counting is strange enough. Stopping six states with ALL of them being hotly contested is beyond the pale. In addition, some of these states had more votes cast than there are voters in several democrat strongholds and among populations that NEVER vote in high percentages.

Added together, this is all so improbable as to be nearly a mathematical impossibility.

I do not actually KNOW exactly what happened, so my opinion is still merely opinion, as is yours that everything in the world is exactly what the mainstream media tells you it is. The difference between us is that I am intelligent enough to differentiate between irrefutable fact and opinion and you are not.

Also, what innate understanding of probability informs you that counting less than all the legally cast votes is a good thing.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Which 6 states are you referring to?

The six swing states that shut down their vote counting.


I hope that helps.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Also, what innate understanding of probability informs you that counting less than all the legally cast votes is a good thing.

Are you really this dense?

There were MORE votes counted than there were legal voters.

 

[otto105]

The six swing states that shut down their vote counting.


I hope that helps.

Which were

 

[otto105]

Are you really this dense?

There were MORE votes counted than there were legal voters.

Where?

 

[Grumblenuts]

A fact is something that's indisputable, based on empirical research and quantifiable measures. Facts go beyond theories. They're proven through calculation and experience, or they're something that definitively occurred in the past.

Truth is entirely different; it may include fact, but it can also include belief.

The above presumes all parties are (or even wish to be) reasonable which is nuts. People want others to see them as talented and part of the team, yet novel, interesting, quirky, and funny. Self-identity often Trumps all these days. Facts smacts. In many places those who win by cheating are deemed the true winners. To them go the spoils including the recording of things "that definitely occurred in the past."

All is relative. That's why I go with what makes sense. I'm not wasting a precious second of this short life worrying about seemingly pointless things that make zero sense to me. Not where so many lifetime's worth of things exist that do make some sense. Not where so many important things still need a lot of sorting out.

eta: Then again, one needs to just breathe now and then, take a nap, enjoy a fresh cup of coffee, stretch, walk, read, be silly and self-deprecating..

 

[Dadoalex]

I am not lying, little boylet who has now called me a liar twice.

It is my opinion that the election was stolen, and this is related to my innate understanding of probability.

...

but...But...BUT

You claimed you didn't know.

So were you lying when you said it was stolen or are you lying now?

 

[forkup]

Truth is in the eye of the beholder.
For many "Truth" is based on religion, watching TV, or discussions in back alley forums.

What is the basis of your "Truth?"

Good question. Not easily answered. Good thing is I already did in a few other OP's. The conversation I'm having is also interesting in those I believe.

This is about sourcing

Where do you get your information? Going by your previous posts, Fox news, Gateway pundit and the like sound about right.

If you want to make the claim that Democrats watch biased information sources you wont get an argument from me. Trying to imply its something only Democrats are guilty of is laughable.

I watch biased information sources. But I'm perfectly aware these sources are biased. So I've set up some rules for myself in how much importance I attach to any source in forming my opinion.

Best possible source is a primary source. Meaning if I form an opinion about something legal I read legal briefs. If I form an opinion about how previous presidents handled presidential records, I read the press statements form the national archives. Since they are in charge of the presidential records, (something you should try). If I want to know what someone has said I watch them actually saying it, in its entirety so I won't be duped by selective quoting. Etc, etc.

Next best thing is a source that has the opposite bias that I have. If Breitbart has the same opinion as me, its safe to assume it is true. If a Trump appointed judge makes a ruling that I agree with, chances are the ruling is correct. Etc, etc.

Third best is a neutral source. Pure news sources that avoid any commentary. Reuter, AP and the like.

Fourth, and one I try to avoid is those sources that are ideologically aligned with me. Doesn't mean they are wrong, but I tend to be wary simply because like any other person I'm susceptible to conformation bias.

This is all time consuming, but it does give a person a better chance to form a correct opinion.

This one I can't quote for some reason but it directly answers your question.

My main motivation to be here is to get as close to the "truth" as I can. What I mean by that is testing myself to see how close my opinions are to reality. To learn, and hopefully become a better person. Realizing full well that I am a narcissist and as such by definition think I'm perfect.

To do this I question myself first and foremost, and when I talk to someone I follow some very basic rules for how I do it.
-I try to avoid fallacious arguments. There are many, some of them are hard to spot, and I'm not always successful, but a fallacy by definition is a bad argument. Using them doesn't invalidate the premise, but it doesn't further it. They are things you use quite a lot of the time when you can't come up with a good argument.
-I don't avoid direct questions when asked. I'm not saying I never miss one but dodging something you don't have a good reply to is cowardice in my opinion. It also gets me in trouble. Because it gives the person I talk to an easy way to derail a debate. Simply ask me questions, and pretty soon I'll be a dog chasing my tail. It's by the way also why I'm going on this tangent, and at the same time am trying to refocus the debate.
-I source what I say and check other people's sources. Something by the way I've learned over the years is an incredible way to educate yourself.
-I make an effort to look at an opponent's argument with an open mind. This is incredibly hard. Ego is a hard thing to overcome.
-I strive for intellectual honesty. Again, not always successful sometimes, again my ego gets in the way.