the terms "conservative" and "liberal" are abused and misused by most Americans

[Harry Dresden]

Wow. Charlie's so astute, he worked out all by himself what lots of us have been saying for years. Welcome to reality, Charlie.

Whatever you partisan hack, you Democrats and Republitards are nothing more than left and right leaning libertarians.

which way do you lean Bass?.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Conservatives = deliberately independant people who strive to allow people to pursue their own happiness.

unless you happen to be a Right Wing Conservative Christian....then its happiness as long as its Ok'd by them.....

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Liberal = nosey and intrusive butinskies who are trying to save the world for people to live in a manner that they promote.

Conservatives = deliberately independant people who strive to allow people to pursue their own happiness.

You can do it like this and it still works:

Conservatives = nosey and intrusive butinskies who are trying to save the world for people to live in a manner that they promote.

Whoa, that really describes conservatives well, with regard to abortion, school prayer, and gay and lesbian issues.

Liberal = deliberately independant people who strive to allow people to pursue their own happiness.

Indeed: the right to choice in the context of privacy with regard to abortion, wanting schools to obey the Constitution, and allowing gays and lesbians to pursue their own happiness, unrestricted by legal restrictions.

 

[California Girl]

Wow. Charlie's so astute, he worked out all by himself what lots of us have been saying for years. Welcome to reality, Charlie.

Whatever you partisan hack, you Democrats and Republitards are nothing more than left and right leaning libertarians.

Which one am I? Because, to the best of my knowledge (and I am rather an expert on all things CG) I am a member of neither the Dems or the GOP. Unlike you, I am very clear on both parties. They are both corrupt to the core, they are both institutionally stupid and I wouldn't join either if they got down on bended knee and begged. I don't vote for fools.... admittedly, this leaves me very limited choices during an election.

 

[California Girl]

Conservatives = deliberately independant people who strive to allow people to pursue their own happiness.

unless you happen to be a Right Wing Conservative Christian....then its happiness as long as its Ok'd by them.....

I'm one of those Right Wing Conservative Christians... and I accept that other people are free to choose not to live according to my principles. Damn, we Christians can be tricky.... we don't all think alike.

Boxes.... best not to use them for people.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

So called "conservative" Republitards are just far right and have a combination of social conservatism mixed with predominant classical liberalism, after all, wanting corporate America and the private sector to have laissez-fair is not very "conservative at all, they want a more freer and "liberal" approach thus they are called "classical liberals" or libertarian, specifically the latter.


Most of what so called self proclaimed "liberals" profess to be liberal and progressive is not very liberal or progressive at all, being pro-choice, pro gay marriage and gay adoptions, is not progressive nor liberal, to be progressive IMO is to bring progress and improve and move beyond something.

"....move beyond something."

Gee.....how eloquent....for a Teabagger.

Progressive

b : making use of or interested in new ideas, findings, or opportunities

*

Synonyms: developed, evolved, forward, high, higher, improved, late, advanced, refined

Antonyms: backward, low, lower, nonprogressive, primitive, retarded, rude, rudimentary, undeveloped

​

 

[Bass v 2.0]

So called "conservative" Republitards are just far right and have a combination of social conservatism mixed with predominant classical liberalism, after all, wanting corporate America and the private sector to have laissez-fair is not very "conservative at all, they want a more freer and "liberal" approach thus they are called "classical liberals" or libertarian, specifically the latter.


Most of what so called self proclaimed "liberals" profess to be liberal and progressive is not very liberal or progressive at all, being pro-choice, pro gay marriage and gay adoptions, is not progressive nor liberal, to be progressive IMO is to bring progress and improve and move beyond something.

"....move beyond something."

Gee.....how eloquent....for a Teabagger.

Progressive

b : making use of or interested in new ideas, findings, or opportunities

*

Synonyms: developed, evolved, forward, high, higher, improved, late, advanced, refined

Antonyms: backward, low, lower, nonprogressive, primitive, retarded, rude, rudimentary, undeveloped

​

So supporting homosexuality is progressive? Please explain that one. Supporting abortion[with the exception for those for whom it poses a medical risk], even for those who are too ignorant to protect themselves in the bedroom is progressive? No, hell, no, teaching them to do better for themselves and to do for self is progressive, as long as people are taught that others have to and or will do for them what they should be doing for themselves you have no progress.

You pro-choice retards want to make things better? How about starting off with educating these women and men to protect themselves and use contraception so that they don't put themselves in a position to seek an abortion, if those ignorant jackasses want to be careless and care free to engage in sexual behavior thats going to conceive life its their biz, but my tax dollars should not be use to correct and rectify their repeated screw ups, I know women who have received multiple abortions and still engage in the same behavior, you self proclaimed "liberals" cannot continue to unconditionally support abortions for people like that. Thats is not progressive.

 

[Bass v 2.0]

Wow. Charlie's so astute, he worked out all by himself what lots of us have been saying for years. Welcome to reality, Charlie.

Whatever you partisan hack, you Democrats and Republitards are nothing more than left and right leaning libertarians.

which way do you lean Bass?.....

I am a centrist libertarian who leans slightly to the right. I do believe in helping the poor and disadvantaged with social programs, but only with the intent of lifting them out of their lowly positions and status, not as a tool to keep people poor and disadvantaged. I believe in all basic freedoms for all people regardless of color or race, however, if the playing field isn't equal I certainly agree with measures to level the playing field by any means necessary. I do believe in and value family and community and high moral standards.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Conservatives = deliberately independant people who strive to allow people to pursue their own happiness.

unless you happen to be a Right Wing Conservative Christian....then its happiness as long as its Ok'd by them.....

I'm one of those Right Wing Conservative Christians... and I accept that other people are free to choose not to live according to my principles. Damn, we Christians can be tricky.... we don't all think alike.

Boxes.... best not to use them for people.

sorry Cali.....but i have known to many in that Box that are against the more,lets say "Liberal" lifestyles......and are not shy about saying so.....perhaps your not as far Right as they are.....let me go a step further....the ones im talking about are the ones Dean usually quotes and attributes it to all Republicans.....just by your views here,even though you might be on the religious Conservative side.....i would not consider you in that Box....same with a few others here who seem to be in that Spectrum so to speak.....maybe i should have said "FAR Right Conservative Christians"......

 

[daveman]

Wow. Charlie's so astute, he worked out all by himself what lots of us have been saying for years. Welcome to reality, Charlie.

Whatever you partisan hack, you Democrats and Republitards are nothing more than left and right leaning libertarians.

There is no such thing as a left-leaning libertarian. The left supports greater government control over individual lives.

 

[Flaylo]

Wow. Charlie's so astute, he worked out all by himself what lots of us have been saying for years. Welcome to reality, Charlie.

Whatever you partisan hack, you Democrats and Republitards are nothing more than left and right leaning libertarians.

There is no such thing as a left-leaning libertarian. The left supports greater government control over individual lives.

There s a such thing as left libertarianism

Left-libertarianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Bass v 2.0]

So called "conservative" Republitards are just far right and have a combination of social conservatism mixed with predominant classical liberalism, after all, wanting corporate America and the private sector to have laissez-fair is not very "conservative at all, they want a more freer and "liberal" approach thus they are called "classical liberals" or libertarian, specifically the latter.

I disagree with your premise.

Most of what so called self proclaimed "liberals" profess to be liberal and progressive is not very liberal or progressive at all, being pro-choice, pro gay marriage and gay adoptions, is not progressive nor liberal, to be progressive IMO is to bring progress and improve and move beyond something. wanting more government control or oversight is not very "liberal" at all either when one thinks about it, thus a lot of what Democrats advocate is not liberalism or liberal.

I could agree.

I stand by my statement, wanting free markets with little to no government involvement is "liberal" not conservative and falls along the lines of classical liberalism, the more free and less regulated the markets the more liberal, stop confusing "liberal" with post New Dealism and social welfare.

 

[daveman]

Whatever you partisan hack, you Democrats and Republitards are nothing more than left and right leaning libertarians.

There is no such thing as a left-leaning libertarian. The left supports greater government control over individual lives.

There s a such thing as left libertarianism

Left-libertarianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Libertarian socialism is the anti-state version of socialism; some also call versions of it "left libertarianism." In a broad sense, people who may share with "traditional socialism a distrust of the market, of private investment, and of the achievement ethic, and a commitment to expansion of the welfare state" might sometimes be described as “left-libertarians.”[2] More narrowly, some social anarchists and libertarian socialists, including Murray Bookchin,[3] are sometimes characterized as “left-libertarian.”,[4] and Noam Chomsky, who identifies as a “libertarian socialist,” applies the “left-libertarian” label to himself.[5]
Most left-libertarians in this sense are anarchists, and frequently claim to reject self-ownership, at least when it is understood to underwrite capitalism,[6] along with property rights, in favor of alternate rights of possession and stewardship which are understood as protecting personal autonomy while rejecting putative rights which they see as permitting the economic elite to control the lives of others. They support rights to individual possessions and the rights of occupancy over one’s dwelling, but reject commercial propertarianism and do not consider the re-appropriation of such wealth to be an act of theft but rather an act of liberation (see individual reclamation). Many reject arrangements that allow for hierarchy or begrudgingly consensual subordination. Similarly, many reject the non-aggression principle to the extent that it treats assaults on private property as assaults on individual liberty.​

I stand corrected. Apparently, they are vastly confused people.

 

[Bass v 2.0]

There is no such thing as a left-leaning libertarian. The left supports greater government control over individual lives.

There s a such thing as left libertarianism

Left-libertarianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Libertarian socialism is the anti-state version of socialism; some also call versions of it "left libertarianism." In a broad sense, people who may share with "traditional socialism a distrust of the market, of private investment, and of the achievement ethic, and a commitment to expansion of the welfare state" might sometimes be described as “left-libertarians.”[2] More narrowly, some social anarchists and libertarian socialists, including Murray Bookchin,[3] are sometimes characterized as “left-libertarian.”,[4] and Noam Chomsky, who identifies as a “libertarian socialist,” applies the “left-libertarian” label to himself.[5]
Most left-libertarians in this sense are anarchists, and frequently claim to reject self-ownership, at least when it is understood to underwrite capitalism,[6] along with property rights, in favor of alternate rights of possession and stewardship which are understood as protecting personal autonomy while rejecting putative rights which they see as permitting the economic elite to control the lives of others. They support rights to individual possessions and the rights of occupancy over one’s dwelling, but reject commercial propertarianism and do not consider the re-appropriation of such wealth to be an act of theft but rather an act of liberation (see individual reclamation). Many reject arrangements that allow for hierarchy or begrudgingly consensual subordination. Similarly, many reject the non-aggression principle to the extent that it treats assaults on private property as assaults on individual liberty.​

I stand corrected. Apparently, they are vastly confused people.

You're such a partisan hack that it isn't even funny any more.

 

[Bass v 2.0]

Conservatives = deliberately independant people who strive to allow people to pursue their own happiness.

unless you happen to be a Right Wing Conservative Christian....then its happiness as long as its Ok'd by them.....

I'm one of those Right Wing Conservative Christians... and I accept that other people are free to choose not to live according to my principles. Damn, we Christians can be tricky.... we don't all think alike.

Boxes.... best not to use them for people.

I'm sorry but your type has hijacked the Republican Party by trying to force their religious fundamentalism into politics.

 

[daveman]

There s a such thing as left libertarianism

Left-libertarianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Libertarian socialism is the anti-state version of socialism; some also call versions of it "left libertarianism." In a broad sense, people who may share with "traditional socialism a distrust of the market, of private investment, and of the achievement ethic, and a commitment to expansion of the welfare state" might sometimes be described as “left-libertarians.”[2] More narrowly, some social anarchists and libertarian socialists, including Murray Bookchin,[3] are sometimes characterized as “left-libertarian.”,[4] and Noam Chomsky, who identifies as a “libertarian socialist,” applies the “left-libertarian” label to himself.[5]
Most left-libertarians in this sense are anarchists, and frequently claim to reject self-ownership, at least when it is understood to underwrite capitalism,[6] along with property rights, in favor of alternate rights of possession and stewardship which are understood as protecting personal autonomy while rejecting putative rights which they see as permitting the economic elite to control the lives of others. They support rights to individual possessions and the rights of occupancy over one’s dwelling, but reject commercial propertarianism and do not consider the re-appropriation of such wealth to be an act of theft but rather an act of liberation (see individual reclamation). Many reject arrangements that allow for hierarchy or begrudgingly consensual subordination. Similarly, many reject the non-aggression principle to the extent that it treats assaults on private property as assaults on individual liberty.​

I stand corrected. Apparently, they are vastly confused people.

You're such a partisan hack that it isn't even funny any more.

Considering your hackery and lack of a sense of humor, your judgement in this area is doubly worthless.

Run along, angry little man.

 

[MaggieMae]

The left hijack whatever they can to get the agenda done, most people that claim to be liberal in politics changed from being liberal to being Progressive as soon as the masses figured out exactly what "Liberal" meant in todays politics, and once the masses figure out what the term "Progressive" means the left will change their names again, and they will do this over and over until the agenda is met.
Remember when hillary used to be just a Liberal? we figured her and the rest of them out now she is a......
YouTube - ‪Communist, Progressive, Socialist, Marxist - Hillary Clinton Admits She's A Progressive‬‏

Republicans/conservatives behave no better when they hold all the power. "Our way or the highway" isn't a new mantra, ya know. By 2002, the neocons had hijacked the GOP to the point veteran Republicans didn't even recognize the party anymore. Now they're trying to hijack the social agenda, which of course they COULD have done in the 8 years they were in power, because Mr. Bush was never a heavy user of his veto power, although he threatened plenty in order to advance HIS agenda. In fact, he never vetoed a spending bill. Not once.

Before neocons, and the even newer movement of pro-business/anti-middle class conservatives, managed to turn "liberalism" into a synonym for welfare abuse, it was a noble political philosophy based on the idea that citizens should be called upon to look beyond their own self-interests and work for a common interest. The American way. Imagine that.

Absolutely, the motivating factor behind the passion of the Tea Party is politicans not being held accountable, and folding up their principals once taking federal office.

And that is why I believe the Tea Party is a positive influence, they aren't going to allow someone to be two-faced and get away with it.

We will see because in 2012 at the very least I see the Republicans, with Tea Party support, retaking the Senate. A Republican majority in both houses, with Tea Party libertarian conservatives, I believe is what is needed to reign in this federal power grab.

I actually have little problem with the goals of the Tea Party movement. But I don't think the majority of them understand that the government can't simply start dismantling existing programs and literally throwing people on the streets or kick kids out of heavily subsidized schools that are the only place they can get an education, for example. To do everything the TP hails (and rails) must take a gradual approach, and in many cases (such as education), alternative policies put in place so that people don't start rapidly falling through the cracks. The results would be MORE people needing government (welfare) assistance, so there would be little to gain using drastic tactics.

 

[MaggieMae]

The problem with claiming either political party is that both of them have been hijacked by lunatic fringe groups. I personally don't care if anyone has an abortion. They can abort themselves if that's what they want.

All I ask is that they don't ask me to pay for their abortion.

Likewise, I don't care if they are gay, straight white, black, yellow, Indian or native American. All I ask is that they do what they want and pay for it themselves and don't hurt anyone else while they are pursuing their own happiness.

I'll thank them to afford me the same courtesy.

I am a Conservative and, to me, that's what a Conservative is.

To me, a Liberal is someone who believes in their heart that they are smarter than I am and that it is their duty to dominate my actions for my own good.

Liberal = nosey and intrusive butinskies who are trying to save the world for people to live in a manner that they promote.

Conservatives = deliberately independant people who strive to allow people to pursue their own happiness.

And one implies action while the other implies wishful thinking.

Could you expand on that?

Conservatives espouse "pursuit of happiness" but are usually all talk and no action. Liberals set about making sure the opportunities exist.

 

[code1211]

Conservatives = deliberately independant people who strive to allow people to pursue their own happiness.

unless you happen to be a Right Wing Conservative Christian....then its happiness as long as its Ok'd by them.....

I have a couple friends who are Christians and they are cinvinced that the only freedom that is not protected by the groups that protect frredoms is the freedom to be Christian.

That said, though, Christians who assert their beliefs in a Crusade-like fashion (fascion?), are guilty of intruding into others lives and are therefore not Conservatives by my definition.

This is just one of the lunatic fringe groups assembled into the coalition to try to build a majority.

My opinion of government is that it has one job and one job only: To spend our money wisely. Our government has been AWOL in this job for about 200 years. Any other pursuit of government is only a distraction from the real job and those distractions are the main function of our current government.

 

[code1211]

Liberal = nosey and intrusive butinskies who are trying to save the world for people to live in a manner that they promote.

Conservatives = deliberately independant people who strive to allow people to pursue their own happiness.

You can do it like this and it still works:

Conservatives = nosey and intrusive butinskies who are trying to save the world for people to live in a manner that they promote.

Whoa, that really describes conservatives well, with regard to abortion, school prayer, and gay and lesbian issues.

Liberal = deliberately independant people who strive to allow people to pursue their own happiness.

Indeed: the right to choice in the context of privacy with regard to abortion, wanting schools to obey the Constitution, and allowing gays and lesbians to pursue their own happiness, unrestricted by legal restrictions.

Sorry. It's my definition and, therefore, I get to define it. Whatever your pet goal for me may be, if your goal is to impose it on me due to the fact that you are smarter than me and I, in your world view, need your guidance, then you are a Liberal.

If you are a nosey buttinski you are a Liberal. I don't care if you are trying to save my soul or reform my sexual preferance or have me abort a baby or make me stop wearing Birkenstocks.

Republicans can be Liberals and Democrats can be Conservatives. Simply by being a member of a poitical party, a person has become a Liberal. If you are trying to convert another to your way of thinking, you are a Liberal. Isn't this the purpose of a Political Party?

As it happens, most political causes are Liberal because they seek to impose behaviors on those who don't particualrly care about them. By definition, Conservatives just want all of you to leave those Conservatives in your number the hell alone.

This includes demanding that I pay for things that others do that I don't support. Why is it a Federal prioity that Indiana give Planned Parenthood money in violation of Indiana Law? Things like this are not a part of the Enumerated Powers and yet they are legal due to the fact that we are no longer a nation of Laws but are now a nation of political parties.

We have slept through the quiet expansion of the Federal Government into our homes undoing the long history of our legal system all the way back to the Magna Carta.

We are frogs in boiling water.