The Tax Cut Myth

[JeffWartman]

The day the Bush tax cuts passed, the left were saying how the tax cuts would ruin the economy and drain government resurces

please take take off the blinkers you wear

You've said this throughout the thread, however, the original article agrees that tax cuts will help the economy -- but that's not the issue of the thread...can you respond to the substance of the original article?

 

[Bern80]

Guess what? I went back and actually read the article. A few things of note.

It's written by John Stossel whom I believe to be one of the last true objective investigative reporters left. That in of itself gives plenty of credibility to the piece, for me anyway. there isn't much there to argue over.

I guess the issue I have is how you presented it Jeff. "the tax cut myth" that's a little misleading unless we were all suppossed to assume you meant only the Bush tax cuts. Tax cuts in of themselves do work, they're not a myth as Stossel pointed out in the article. What Stossel said is that tax cuts aren't as helpful as we would like to think if the government doesn't reduce spendigng to reflect the reduced revenue. But you needed to spin it inta an anti-republican thing. How many democrats do you think voted against any of the spending bills under teh republican majority? We certainly didn't here a peep out of them saying what you're saying. I don't recall them at any time saying look at the hypocrit republicans and all of the money they spent.
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[actsnoblemartin]

john stossel.

without government cutting spending, its simple accounting.

you cant take in 50 cents and spend a dollar. Eventually, it will catch up to you.

Good work Wartman

im all for smart, effecient, accountable, honest government. Regardless of party affiliation.

 

[red states rule]

You've said this throughout the thread, however, the original article agrees that tax cuts will help the economy -- but that's not the issue of the thread...can you respond to the substance of the original article?

I have already said I agree spending needs to be cut

Republicans forgot how to cut spending and Dems never tired to cut spending

 

[actsnoblemartin]

I agree. Democrats have always spent to much, and republicans are turning into democrats on spending.

I see nothing hypocritical on your position.

I simply believe giving tax cuts during a time of war, and i could be wrong here, historically is not a good idea.

 

[red states rule]

I agree. Democrats have always spent to much, and republicans are turning into democrats on spending.

I see nothing hypocritical on your position.

I simply believe giving tax cuts during a time of war, and i could be wrong here, historically is not a good idea.

So people like Jeff, you can agree with them and they are still pissed off at you

Mostly because you like Pres Bush

 

[Toro]

I agree. Democrats have always spent to much, and republicans are turning into democrats on spending.

I see nothing hypocritical on your position.

I simply believe giving tax cuts during a time of war, and i could be wrong here, historically is not a good idea.

Well, it has the effect of pulling economic growth forward, as well as debasing the US currency and decreasing the US's wealth relative to the rest of the world.

However, in a time when we ask some people to make the ultimate sacrifice for us by giving their lives in a foreign land, the same people who send kids into battle to die will not make the small sacrifice of a slightly higher tax bill so that our children do not have to pay for our spending today.

 

[red states rule]

Well, it has the effect of pulling economic growth forward, as well as debasing the US currency and decreasing the US's wealth relative to the rest of the world.

However, in a time when we ask some people to make the ultimate sacrifice for us by giving their lives in a foreign land, the same people who send kids into battle to die will not make the small sacrifice of a slightly higher tax bill so that our children do not have to pay for our spending today.

Employers Add 157,000 Jobs in May; Unemployment Rate Steady at 4.5 Percent


and another record on Wall street today


Yea, the economy really stinks

 

[Toro]

Economy grows 0.6%.

http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/gdpnewsrelease.htm

But that's not the point.

You ask people to die for you but you won't pay for it.

Where is the shared burden? Where is the sacrifice?

Deficits are merely tax increases on your children.

 

[red states rule]

Economy grows 0.6%.

http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/gdpnewsrelease.htm

But that's not the point.

You ask people to die for you but you won't pay for it.

Where is the shared burden? Where is the sacrifice?

Deficits are merely tax increases on your children.

It is still positive growth - and the outlook is more better growth for the rest of the year

Shared burden - look at your paycheck and see the amount of taxes being taken. Look at the other taxes you pay - sales taxes, property taxes, excise taxes, and gas taxes

On average you probably pay at least 33% of your incomes in taxes

Upper income people pay around 50% of their income in taxes

How much more do you want us to pay?

 

[Toro]

It is still positive growth - and the outlook is more better growth for the rest of the year

Shared burden - look at your paycheck and see the amount of taxes being taken. Look at the other taxes you pay - sales taxes, property taxes, excise taxes, and gas taxes

On average you probably pay at least 33% of your incomes in taxes

Upper income people pay around 50% of their income in taxes

How much more do you want us to pay?

No, I pay 25%. I do the exercise every year. I approximate every tax I pay, and as a percentage of income, its 25%. And I earn six figures. I've also lived in Canada and England. Americans pay amongst the lowest tax burdens in the industrialized world.

And if my neighbor's teenage boy is going to die over in Iraq, I'm going to bitch and complain because I have to pay an extra grand or two in taxes?!

Where is the sacrifice? Where is the burden?

In WWII, the entire nation did what it had to do, including pay higher taxes. But a certain portion of the American political spectrum today thinks its just fine that others have to sacrifice with their lives while they should not only not sacrifice a thing, they're entitled to an increase of 2.5% in take home pay, or whatever it was, all the while the taxes on their children are going to rise.

You ask how much I expect you to pay? I expect you to pay for the war, at the very least. You are not doing that.

 

[red states rule]

No, I pay 25%. I do the exercise every year. I approximate every tax I pay, and as a percentage of income, its 25%. And I earn six figures. I've also lived in Canada and England. Americans pay amongst the lowest tax burdens in the industrialized world.

And if my neighbor's teenage boy is going to die over in Iraq, I'm going to bitch and complain because I have to pay an extra grand or two in taxes?!

Where is the sacrifice? Where is the burden?

In WWII, the entire nation did what it had to do, including pay higher taxes. But a certain portion of the American political spectrum today thinks its just fine that others have to sacrifice with their lives while they should not only not sacrifice a thing, they're entitled to an increase of 2.5% in take home pay, or whatever it was, all the while the taxes on their children are going to rise.

So you pay only 25% in taxes? Atre you including Federal income taxes, state income taxes, local income taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, SS taxes, Medicacre taxes, gas taxes, excise taxes, taxes on your utilities, taxes on your phone and cable bills

If you feel you are undertaxed send extra money in - leave the rest of us alone. We are paying enough in taxes

 

[Toro]

Everything. Sales tax. Property tax. Gas tax. Income tax. Etc., etc. But I live in Florida, and our tax burden is low.

However, if you don't want to pay higher taxes, don't invade other countries. If you don't pay for the war, your children will. How fair is that?

 

[red states rule]

Everything. Sales tax. Property tax. Gas tax. Income tax. Etc., etc. But I live in Florida, and our tax burden is low.

However, if you don't want to pay higher taxes, don't invade other countries. If you don't pay for the war, your children will. How fair is that?

Did you keep your tax cut or did you give it back?

Like I said, if you want to pay more do so

I pay enough in taxes and I fed up with the Dems wanting more of my money

 

[Toro]

Did you keep your tax cut or did you give it back?

Like I said, if you want to pay more do so

I pay enough in taxes and I fed up with the Dems wanting more of my money

I gave mine to charity.

Its not the Dems wanting more of your money that's the problem. Its the Republicans forcing an increase in your taxes in the future. If you increase spending - as Bush did - you are increasing taxes in the future. Period.

Not only that, but increases in government borrowing raises the cost of borrowing for everyone. Interest rates would be lower today if the government had not borrowed so much and imports would be cheaper if the government hadn't debased the dollar. You're upset about paying higher taxes but you don't seem to be all that upset that import prices are higher than they otherwise would be because of the falling dollar, which is an outcome of Bush's deficits. That is a tax. The only difference is that at least with a direct tax, Americans could spend it.

 

[red states rule]

I gave mine to charity.

Its not the Dems wanting more of your money that's the problem. Its the Republicans forcing an increase in your taxes in the future. If you increase spending - as Bush did - you are increasing taxes in the future. Period.

Not only that, but increases in government borrowing raises the cost of borrowing for everyone. Interest rates would be lower today if the government had not borrowed so much and imports would be cheaper if the government hadn't debased the dollar. You're upset about paying higher taxes but you don't seem to be all that upset that import prices are higher than they otherwise would be because of the falling dollar, which is an outcome of Bush's deficits. That is a tax. The only difference is that at least with a direct tax, Americans could spend it.

How much lower can the low interst rates go?

The economy is rolling along, and so far, nothing has really hurt it

The annual defict has been shrinking for the last four years

Dems want to raise taxes by over $400 billion and keep the books open

 

[JeffWartman]

Guess what? I went back and actually read the article. A few things of note.

It's written by John Stossel whom I believe to be one of the last true objective investigative reporters left. That in of itself gives plenty of credibility to the piece, for me anyway. there isn't much there to argue over.

I guess the issue I have is how you presented it Jeff. "the tax cut myth" that's a little misleading unless we were all suppossed to assume you meant only the Bush tax cuts. Tax cuts in of themselves do work, they're not a myth as Stossel pointed out in the article. What Stossel said is that tax cuts aren't as helpful as we would like to think if the government doesn't reduce spendigng to reflect the reduced revenue. But you needed to spin it inta an anti-republican thing. How many democrats do you think voted against any of the spending bills under teh republican majority? We certainly didn't here a peep out of them saying what you're saying. I don't recall them at any time saying look at the hypocrit republicans and all of the money they spent.
.

I'm not necessarily trying to spin it into an anti-Republican thing. I'm just playing off the way that RSR replied in this thread early on in which he had shown he had no idea what the original article even said.

 

[JeffWartman]

I have already said I agree spending needs to be cut

Republicans forgot how to cut spending and Dems never tired to cut spending

I'm just confused why people can say that spending should be cut, and then turn around and support the Republicans, who have no real interest in cutting spending whatsoever. If they did, they wouldn't have to hide the Iraq spending off budget.

 

[JeffWartman]

It is still positive growth - and the outlook is more better growth for the rest of the year

It's the slowest growth in years, and no intelligent person can look at that and say you want 0.6% growth.

Shared burden - look at your paycheck and see the amount of taxes being taken. Look at the other taxes you pay - sales taxes, property taxes, excise taxes, and gas taxes

On average you probably pay at least 33% of your incomes in taxes

You want tax reform? End federal withholding and make people write a check in April. We'll have tax reform so fast it'll make your head spin.

 

[Toro]

I'm just confused why people can say that spending should be cut, and then turn around and support the Republicans, who have no real interest in cutting spending whatsoever. If they did, they wouldn't have to hide the Iraq spending off budget.

Right.

I'm not arguing against tax cuts. I'm arguing against chronic deficit spending. What is occurring in the economy is as much, if not more so a result of big government spending.

Bush is a bigger spender than Slick Willie ever was. Lord Keynes would be proud.