The Stuff of scientism - SCIENCE vs God: The OBJECTION that is getting old...

[Hollie]

So basically FAITH isn't enough. Doubling down on FAITH isn't enough either. No. To get through them Pearly Gates you're going to have to keep swallowing nonsense until you're fairly bursting your entire life while tonguing things like "HE in fact honestly has presented to us in HIS word what HE feels we can handle and hasn't lied to us".. then.. only then will you be judged worthy to get through..

Nah, I'll pass. In fact, I wish He would just punch me straight down to Hell this instant!.. Nope, nothin' again, darn it!..

You call it nonsense. You who believes the entire UNIVERSE came into being by itself, that man came about by pure accident, that life spontaneously erupted on its own, that the meaning of life is just in one's imagination...

I believe that you must accept that JESUS is the MESSIAH and died for your sins. That through faith in HIM alone you are saved. However, all that is found in the Bible. Yes, there are facts that one can examine. Other ancient documents, places on a map, artifacts that archaeologists have found; however, even with all that, if you will not accept CHRIST/MESSIAH you are lost and nothing else will make for a hill of beans.

You paint a picture of a bleak and hopeless existence.

"if you will not accept CHRIST/MESSIAH you are lost and nothing else will make for a hill of beans.''

Really? I'm lost and nothing I do or accomplish will make for a hill of beans unless I submit to Christianity? Beside being coercive, it is unreasonable. It suggests that doing unselfish acts for others means nothing. It suggests that living with honor and integrity means nothing, Such a worldview requires you to abdicate reason in the face of fear. Any gods who reward fear and submission over reason is not worthy of worship.

Ok, your testimony is that not accepting your gods means that our lives will not amount to a hill of beans. lets examine that philosophy and understand where it comes from. There is a single fatal problem with the NT. That is, that Jesus does not explain why his doctrines are good for mankind, he commands obedience for them and levies a system of rewards or punishments based on adherence and conformity. Jesus doesn't say, "Be good to one another because you are each precious," Jesus states, "Believe and obey and you will see heaven-- doubt and disobey and you will earn eternal damnation". The worth of Jesus' philosophy is emptied of meaning because he ultimately attempts to scare people into accepting his word. The character of Jesus was drawn very cleverly, which is actually why I find the Bible to be an interesting book. Despite the occasional overt threat, Jesus' character focuses on the implied threat: A) There is a heaven. B) There is a hell. C) Do as I command and you'll go to heaven. Then Jesus stops speaking. But we all know exactly what D would be: D) Don't do as I command and you'll go to hell.

The idea that "we die and all rot in the ground" somehow translates into "we shouldn't strive for excellence and happiness in life" is somewhat puzzling to me. I don't see the need to postulate an eternal afterlife or any gods in order to give life meaning. Life, in and of itself, **is** meaning. What if Atheism is a life-view that requires one to accept reality as it is, for what it is, and take responsibility for enjoying life and helping to make life better.

Why not? Because if we live in a world that we purposely make miserable, we each share in that misery. If we have children, and we love them, we want a better world so maybe they have less of a burden of pain to experience, and more pleasure and happiness.

I paint the reality of what will happen to lost and indifferent people when they expire. You must repent of your transgressions and come to a realization that JESUS paid your entire sin debt. There is a choice. Either one seeks forgiveness from GOD or one rejects GOD. GOD doesn't force anyone; however, the truth is that there will be consequences for the choice we select.

I think we need to understand that your reality has no basis in fact. I would also point out that when the result of not adhering to the proscription of the ideology is eternal damnation, that puts me in a position where I cannot logically resolve vengeful, vicious gods. “Their” message comes with an underlying threat that is repulsive: conform or suffer eternal damnation. That is not the message of benevolent gods, that is the message of humans who have formulated an ideology intended to coerce behavior.

The precept of gods who are "infinitely merciful" is stripped of credibility when those gods are infinitely vindictive and cruel. “Infinite love and mercy” should be what the words mean. Eternal damnation is a contradiction to those attributes, and there is no way to reconcile gods who establish amorality as morality.

I have no reason to accept that there are really angry gods who would actually behave as you describe. If such a thing is the reality (and of course there's no evidence for such) then I'll have to "account for my actions". But my worst "crime" in this realm is being imperfect and not believing that which I find is not supported. I can do nothing about such gods who would condemn me for such a trivial issue. I do see the fear and hopelessness that terrifies and haunts so many religious people. If such gods exist, there is no sense in morality, no true justice, and basically we are nothing but minions created to worship an infinite Ego or be consigned to everlasting torment. I think living in such fear is a prescription for a maladjusted personality.

So, you never did anything that you were truly sorry for --- you never "sinned"? You have never experienced an event that you couldn't explain where you might have been seriously inured if not killed and yet the seeming "miraculous" occurred? You never noticed a difference between someone you knew who apparently was/is a Christian and those who ridicule that belief? You've never noticed how regularly a chain of events seem to follow a peculiar pattern where logically there should be none in a random world? So, you have a matter of fact explanation for everything? My----my!

Of course I've done things I regretted. Everyone makes mistakes. However, any injustice I, or anyone else, commits against another in this material world has material consequences. It's far easier to believe in a loving father figure who will reward us (or p u n i s h us) based upon our understanding of a bunch of ancient rules written in the desert somewhere. It's not pleasant to think there's no "ultimate justice" out there. A dead Hitler is pretty much beyond suffering for his cruelties. But it's the truth. And we need the truth to function properly, to explore, and learn.

I've never experienced a ''miracle'', but I read a story of one. Years ago during a winter storm a sight seeing bus ran off the road and was involved in a terrible crash. Many were killed but one woman who lived described her survival as a miracle. Yeah, screw those other losers who died, she won gods' lottery. Truly a miracle.

Tell us about the miracle of the gods' blueprint for the cancer cell. A miracle of design. Even Christians get cancer. I wonder why that is? Won't prayer and 'belief' provide a cure?

 

[Grumblenuts]

Maybe they (your friends) like/love you very much and wish to engage in conversation that might just might motivate you to reevaluate your position, and or encourage them to reevaluate their own... Such wouldn't be the case if they excluded you.

Actually, we simply and very deliberately avoid the subject. Been acquainted longer, but good friends for more than thirty years. No interest lingers in going there. We all know doing so could only be hurtful.

Hurtful? How? If you don't wish to believe that there is a GOD, and Billions of people at the very least visualized that there must be something greater then themselves, that doesn't seem to be hurtful --- unless you may feel excluded and alone. That would be your own choice, as I'm sure that you must have been invited on occasion to "church". I've seen some people get very upset when discussing things that they claim not to care anything about. Perhaps they care more than they are willing to let on.

All discussed until it was well established that further discussion would be pointless.. long, long ago. Think, McFly. Our friends. We don't deliberately piss off our friends. Do you?

Actually, we've had more pressing concerns like helping each other raise the kids and so forth..

 

[LittleNipper]

So basically FAITH isn't enough. Doubling down on FAITH isn't enough either. No. To get through them Pearly Gates you're going to have to keep swallowing nonsense until you're fairly bursting your entire life while tonguing things like "HE in fact honestly has presented to us in HIS word what HE feels we can handle and hasn't lied to us".. then.. only then will you be judged worthy to get through..

Nah, I'll pass. In fact, I wish He would just punch me straight down to Hell this instant!.. Nope, nothin' again, darn it!..

You call it nonsense. You who believes the entire UNIVERSE came into being by itself, that man came about by pure accident, that life spontaneously erupted on its own, that the meaning of life is just in one's imagination...

I believe that you must accept that JESUS is the MESSIAH and died for your sins. That through faith in HIM alone you are saved. However, all that is found in the Bible. Yes, there are facts that one can examine. Other ancient documents, places on a map, artifacts that archaeologists have found; however, even with all that, if you will not accept CHRIST/MESSIAH you are lost and nothing else will make for a hill of beans.

You paint a picture of a bleak and hopeless existence.

"if you will not accept CHRIST/MESSIAH you are lost and nothing else will make for a hill of beans.''

Really? I'm lost and nothing I do or accomplish will make for a hill of beans unless I submit to Christianity? Beside being coercive, it is unreasonable. It suggests that doing unselfish acts for others means nothing. It suggests that living with honor and integrity means nothing, Such a worldview requires you to abdicate reason in the face of fear. Any gods who reward fear and submission over reason is not worthy of worship.

Ok, your testimony is that not accepting your gods means that our lives will not amount to a hill of beans. lets examine that philosophy and understand where it comes from. There is a single fatal problem with the NT. That is, that Jesus does not explain why his doctrines are good for mankind, he commands obedience for them and levies a system of rewards or punishments based on adherence and conformity. Jesus doesn't say, "Be good to one another because you are each precious," Jesus states, "Believe and obey and you will see heaven-- doubt and disobey and you will earn eternal damnation". The worth of Jesus' philosophy is emptied of meaning because he ultimately attempts to scare people into accepting his word. The character of Jesus was drawn very cleverly, which is actually why I find the Bible to be an interesting book. Despite the occasional overt threat, Jesus' character focuses on the implied threat: A) There is a heaven. B) There is a hell. C) Do as I command and you'll go to heaven. Then Jesus stops speaking. But we all know exactly what D would be: D) Don't do as I command and you'll go to hell.

The idea that "we die and all rot in the ground" somehow translates into "we shouldn't strive for excellence and happiness in life" is somewhat puzzling to me. I don't see the need to postulate an eternal afterlife or any gods in order to give life meaning. Life, in and of itself, **is** meaning. What if Atheism is a life-view that requires one to accept reality as it is, for what it is, and take responsibility for enjoying life and helping to make life better.

Why not? Because if we live in a world that we purposely make miserable, we each share in that misery. If we have children, and we love them, we want a better world so maybe they have less of a burden of pain to experience, and more pleasure and happiness.

I paint the reality of what will happen to lost and indifferent people when they expire. You must repent of your transgressions and come to a realization that JESUS paid your entire sin debt. There is a choice. Either one seeks forgiveness from GOD or one rejects GOD. GOD doesn't force anyone; however, the truth is that there will be consequences for the choice we select.

I think we need to understand that your reality has no basis in fact. I would also point out that when the result of not adhering to the proscription of the ideology is eternal damnation, that puts me in a position where I cannot logically resolve vengeful, vicious gods. “Their” message comes with an underlying threat that is repulsive: conform or suffer eternal damnation. That is not the message of benevolent gods, that is the message of humans who have formulated an ideology intended to coerce behavior.

The precept of gods who are "infinitely merciful" is stripped of credibility when those gods are infinitely vindictive and cruel. “Infinite love and mercy” should be what the words mean. Eternal damnation is a contradiction to those attributes, and there is no way to reconcile gods who establish amorality as morality.

I have no reason to accept that there are really angry gods who would actually behave as you describe. If such a thing is the reality (and of course there's no evidence for such) then I'll have to "account for my actions". But my worst "crime" in this realm is being imperfect and not believing that which I find is not supported. I can do nothing about such gods who would condemn me for such a trivial issue. I do see the fear and hopelessness that terrifies and haunts so many religious people. If such gods exist, there is no sense in morality, no true justice, and basically we are nothing but minions created to worship an infinite Ego or be consigned to everlasting torment. I think living in such fear is a prescription for a maladjusted personality.

So, you never did anything that you were truly sorry for --- you never "sinned"? You have never experienced an event that you couldn't explain where you might have been seriously inured if not killed and yet the seeming "miraculous" occurred? You never noticed a difference between someone you knew who apparently was/is a Christian and those who ridicule that belief? You've never noticed how regularly a chain of events seem to follow a peculiar pattern where logically there should be none in a random world? So, you have a matter of fact explanation for everything? My----my!

Of course I've done things I regretted. Everyone makes mistakes. However, any injustice I, or anyone else, commits against another in this material world has material consequences. It's far easier to believe in a loving father figure who will reward us (or p u n i s h us) based upon our understanding of a bunch of ancient rules written in the desert somewhere. It's not pleasant to think there's no "ultimate justice" out there. A dead Hitler is pretty much beyond suffering for his cruelties. But it's the truth. And we need the truth to function properly, to explore, and learn.

I've never experienced a ''miracle'', but I read a story of one. Years ago during a winter storm a sight seeing bus ran off the road and was involved in a terrible crash. Many were killed but one woman who lived described her survival as a miracle. Yeah, screw those other losers who died, she won gods' lottery. Truly a miracle.

Tell us about the miracle of the gods' blueprint for the cancer cell. A miracle of design. Even Christians get cancer. I wonder why that is? Won't prayer and 'belief' provide a cure?

I'm sorry, that you blame GOD for cancer. So, all those that end up with lung cancer after years smoking coffin nails didn't contribute to their own problem? People who have engaged in all sorts of sex with all sorts of people and end up with cancer causing viruses haven't contributed either, I suppose? I realize that everyone who experiences cancer may not have done anything to bring on such a disease, but don't lose sight of the fact that societies' sins may have contributed. The use of pesticides, the atomic bombs, asbestos, and a slew of other so called scientific breakthroughs didn't perhaps cause more problems than they solved, because GOD wasn't considered, and man knows it all... Don't you get up every morning? Isn't that a miracle. Have you never almost been hit by a car, or fallen, or had an operation? No one has ever said anything to you that caused you to stop and think and perhaps change your mind concerning something? I believe there are miracles that we forget and others we don't even realize came our way and saved us much anguish. People tend to only remember the bad things. That is what is called human nature...

 

[Grumblenuts]

Caveman 1: Careful there, buddy. That saber tooth tiger might be hiding in them bushes yonder.
Caveman 2: Ehh, look on the bright side, Davey Downer. We got out of bed this morning, no? See, God's watching over ..
{smack, crunch, crunch, gulp, burp}

 

[Hollie]

So basically FAITH isn't enough. Doubling down on FAITH isn't enough either. No. To get through them Pearly Gates you're going to have to keep swallowing nonsense until you're fairly bursting your entire life while tonguing things like "HE in fact honestly has presented to us in HIS word what HE feels we can handle and hasn't lied to us".. then.. only then will you be judged worthy to get through..

Nah, I'll pass. In fact, I wish He would just punch me straight down to Hell this instant!.. Nope, nothin' again, darn it!..

You call it nonsense. You who believes the entire UNIVERSE came into being by itself, that man came about by pure accident, that life spontaneously erupted on its own, that the meaning of life is just in one's imagination...

I believe that you must accept that JESUS is the MESSIAH and died for your sins. That through faith in HIM alone you are saved. However, all that is found in the Bible. Yes, there are facts that one can examine. Other ancient documents, places on a map, artifacts that archaeologists have found; however, even with all that, if you will not accept CHRIST/MESSIAH you are lost and nothing else will make for a hill of beans.

You paint a picture of a bleak and hopeless existence.

"if you will not accept CHRIST/MESSIAH you are lost and nothing else will make for a hill of beans.''

Really? I'm lost and nothing I do or accomplish will make for a hill of beans unless I submit to Christianity? Beside being coercive, it is unreasonable. It suggests that doing unselfish acts for others means nothing. It suggests that living with honor and integrity means nothing, Such a worldview requires you to abdicate reason in the face of fear. Any gods who reward fear and submission over reason is not worthy of worship.

Ok, your testimony is that not accepting your gods means that our lives will not amount to a hill of beans. lets examine that philosophy and understand where it comes from. There is a single fatal problem with the NT. That is, that Jesus does not explain why his doctrines are good for mankind, he commands obedience for them and levies a system of rewards or punishments based on adherence and conformity. Jesus doesn't say, "Be good to one another because you are each precious," Jesus states, "Believe and obey and you will see heaven-- doubt and disobey and you will earn eternal damnation". The worth of Jesus' philosophy is emptied of meaning because he ultimately attempts to scare people into accepting his word. The character of Jesus was drawn very cleverly, which is actually why I find the Bible to be an interesting book. Despite the occasional overt threat, Jesus' character focuses on the implied threat: A) There is a heaven. B) There is a hell. C) Do as I command and you'll go to heaven. Then Jesus stops speaking. But we all know exactly what D would be: D) Don't do as I command and you'll go to hell.

The idea that "we die and all rot in the ground" somehow translates into "we shouldn't strive for excellence and happiness in life" is somewhat puzzling to me. I don't see the need to postulate an eternal afterlife or any gods in order to give life meaning. Life, in and of itself, **is** meaning. What if Atheism is a life-view that requires one to accept reality as it is, for what it is, and take responsibility for enjoying life and helping to make life better.

Why not? Because if we live in a world that we purposely make miserable, we each share in that misery. If we have children, and we love them, we want a better world so maybe they have less of a burden of pain to experience, and more pleasure and happiness.

I paint the reality of what will happen to lost and indifferent people when they expire. You must repent of your transgressions and come to a realization that JESUS paid your entire sin debt. There is a choice. Either one seeks forgiveness from GOD or one rejects GOD. GOD doesn't force anyone; however, the truth is that there will be consequences for the choice we select.

I think we need to understand that your reality has no basis in fact. I would also point out that when the result of not adhering to the proscription of the ideology is eternal damnation, that puts me in a position where I cannot logically resolve vengeful, vicious gods. “Their” message comes with an underlying threat that is repulsive: conform or suffer eternal damnation. That is not the message of benevolent gods, that is the message of humans who have formulated an ideology intended to coerce behavior.

The precept of gods who are "infinitely merciful" is stripped of credibility when those gods are infinitely vindictive and cruel. “Infinite love and mercy” should be what the words mean. Eternal damnation is a contradiction to those attributes, and there is no way to reconcile gods who establish amorality as morality.

I have no reason to accept that there are really angry gods who would actually behave as you describe. If such a thing is the reality (and of course there's no evidence for such) then I'll have to "account for my actions". But my worst "crime" in this realm is being imperfect and not believing that which I find is not supported. I can do nothing about such gods who would condemn me for such a trivial issue. I do see the fear and hopelessness that terrifies and haunts so many religious people. If such gods exist, there is no sense in morality, no true justice, and basically we are nothing but minions created to worship an infinite Ego or be consigned to everlasting torment. I think living in such fear is a prescription for a maladjusted personality.

So, you never did anything that you were truly sorry for --- you never "sinned"? You have never experienced an event that you couldn't explain where you might have been seriously inured if not killed and yet the seeming "miraculous" occurred? You never noticed a difference between someone you knew who apparently was/is a Christian and those who ridicule that belief? You've never noticed how regularly a chain of events seem to follow a peculiar pattern where logically there should be none in a random world? So, you have a matter of fact explanation for everything? My----my!

Of course I've done things I regretted. Everyone makes mistakes. However, any injustice I, or anyone else, commits against another in this material world has material consequences. It's far easier to believe in a loving father figure who will reward us (or p u n i s h us) based upon our understanding of a bunch of ancient rules written in the desert somewhere. It's not pleasant to think there's no "ultimate justice" out there. A dead Hitler is pretty much beyond suffering for his cruelties. But it's the truth. And we need the truth to function properly, to explore, and learn.

I've never experienced a ''miracle'', but I read a story of one. Years ago during a winter storm a sight seeing bus ran off the road and was involved in a terrible crash. Many were killed but one woman who lived described her survival as a miracle. Yeah, screw those other losers who died, she won gods' lottery. Truly a miracle.

Tell us about the miracle of the gods' blueprint for the cancer cell. A miracle of design. Even Christians get cancer. I wonder why that is? Won't prayer and 'belief' provide a cure?

I'm sorry, that you blame GOD for cancer. So, all those that end up with lung cancer after years smoking coffin nails didn't contribute to their own problem? People who have engaged in all sorts of sex with all sorts of people and end up with cancer causing viruses haven't contributed either, I suppose? I realize that everyone who experiences cancer may not have done anything to bring on such a disease, but don't lose sight of the fact that societies' sins may have contributed. The use of pesticides, the atomic bombs, asbestos, and a slew of other so called scientific breakthroughs didn't perhaps cause more problems than they solved, because GOD wasn't considered, and man knows it all... Don't you get up every morning? Isn't that a miracle. Have you never almost been hit by a car, or fallen, or had an operation? No one has ever said anything to you that caused you to stop and think and perhaps change your mind concerning something? I believe there are miracles that we forget and others we don't even realize came our way and saved us much anguish. People tend to only remember the bad things. That is what is called human nature...

You may have misread my comments or perhaps I didn't express myself well. As a nonbeliever, I don't blame any of the gods for choices we make. The believers have a more difficult circumstance. If you believe that the gods created all, then they are responsible for all. I'm not aware that Christians die from cancer or floods, tornadoes or other ''acts of god'' that are otherwise natural occurrences any less often than non-Christians so apparently being a believer won't buy you any godly favors in this world. I have no reason to believe that any rewards in heaven are waiting so even if I live a good life, the gods (or natural disasters) can kill me. I do agree that risky behavior has its own consequences but that doesn't address the deaths of people every day who committed no sin thus deserving no heavenly striking down.

What we are left with is this: if ''good'' is of the gods then evil is of the gods-- no way around that -- hence, God is all good and all evil at the same time and is completely self-contradictory.

Hence, things are the way they are because the gods wants them precisely this way and this includes a nasty and capricious nature which will kill people via floods and tornadoes and fires and earthquakes etc., none of which are essential to a world created by gods. They could have just as easily made it otherwise, they just didn't.

 

[BreezeWood]

The Stuff of scientism - SCIENCE vs God: The OBJECTION that is getting old...
.
there has never been - science vs God. - - science vs christianity (desert religions) is the correct topic and has been old since the madeup religion came into being. and not including the primary character of the 1st century.
.
.

I'm sorry, that you blame GOD for cancer.

.
no, howabout christianity (messiah) does not exist and has nothing to do with metaphysical life ... such as, evolution -

however the religion from antiquity is the very root for survival vs extinction a blueprint that is required, wittingly or not. found in your book - the triumph of good vs evil. evolution is the metaphysical triumph required for physical change. and ultimately a means to the end cancer if there is one.
.
.

What we are left with is this: if ''good'' is of the gods then evil is of the gods--

.
the contrast is not "of" anything, the gods are only one. to become evil is to perish - forever. message from antiquity.

there is no corollary as the dual existence good/evil exists of their own accord with or without "any" beings involvement and its outcome is such that to expire one over the other does not erase the other but for only the individual that accomplishes the feat as the claim from antiquity whether immortal or mortal and is the threat that all religions are meant to resolve. and is the product in life's progression from the beginning to the present day.

 

[Grumblenuts]

"the claim from antiquity"

This theory of the intentional brewing of intoxicants, whether beer, wine, or other drink, is supported by the historical record which strongly suggests that human beings, after taking care of their immediate needs of food, shelter, and rudimentary laws, will then pursue the creation of some type of intoxicant. Although beer as it is recognized in the modern day was developed in Europe (specifically in Germany), the brew was first enjoyed in ancient Mesopotamia.

Oops, left out religion, hold on..

Original: "whether beer, wine, or other drink"
Correction: "whether beer, wine, other drink, or opiate"

Or, as my favorite ex-grandmother-in-law used to shout when asked to choose among donuts,
"Just mix 'em!"
"Just mix 'em!"
"Just mix 'em!!"

 

[Ringtone]

Substitute 'resurrected Jesus' for 'resurrection'.

From what source does Ehrman get this notion that only three people (human beings) witnessed the resurrected Christ?

 

[alang1216]

Substitute 'resurrected Jesus' for 'resurrection'.

From what source does Ehrman get this notion that only three people (human beings) witnessed the resurrected Christ?

Ehrman IS the source. It is found in his book "How Jesus Became God".

 

[Ringtone]

Substitute 'resurrected Jesus' for 'resurrection'.

From what source does Ehrman get this notion that only three people (human beings) witnessed the resurrected Christ?

Ehrman IS the source. It is found in his book "How Jesus Became God".

Yes, I understand that Ehrman is your source for this belief, apparently. What is his source for this belief, i.e., what does he base it on exactly?

 

[Grumblenuts]

Godammit, it was God Himself, by god!

Happy now? Better be.

 

[BreezeWood]

"the claim from antiquity"

This theory of the intentional brewing of intoxicants, whether beer, wine, or other drink, is supported by the historical record which strongly suggests that human beings, after taking care of their immediate needs of food, shelter, and rudimentary laws, will then pursue the creation of some type of intoxicant. Although beer as it is recognized in the modern day was developed in Europe (specifically in Germany), the brew was first enjoyed in ancient Mesopotamia.

Oops, left out religion, hold on..

Original: "whether beer, wine, or other drink"
Correction: "whether beer, wine, other drink, or opiate"

Or, as my favorite ex-grandmother-in-law used to shout when asked to choose among donuts,
"Just mix 'em!"
"Just mix 'em!"
"Just mix 'em!!"

.

"the claim from antiquity"

Oops, left out religion, hold on..

Original: "whether beer, wine, or other drink"
Correction: "whether beer, wine, other drink, or opiate"

.
claims arising from the very beginning of creation ...

not all religions are a leap from reality - the use of the scientific method is one of them.

physiology is not native to planet Earth and disappears without its spiritual content. both are supernatural.

 

[BreezeWood]

Substitute 'resurrected Jesus' for 'resurrection'.

From what source does Ehrman get this notion that only three people (human beings) witnessed the resurrected Christ?

Ehrman IS the source. It is found in his book "How Jesus Became God".

Yes, I understand that Ehrman is your source for this belief, apparently. What is his source for this belief, i.e., what does he base it on exactly?

.

Ehrman IS the source. It is found in his book "How Jesus Became God".

Yes, I understand that Ehrman is your source for this belief, apparently. What is his source for this belief, i.e., what does he base it on exactly?

.
does ehrman mention the sleeping soldiers - funny ringtone fails to mention them with the 10 million angels.

just how does one resurrect, must be quiet to not disturb the natives.

 

[Hollie]

Substitute 'resurrected Jesus' for 'resurrection'.

From what source does Ehrman get this notion that only three people (human beings) witnessed the resurrected Christ?

Ehrman IS the source. It is found in his book "How Jesus Became God".

Yes, I understand that Ehrman is your source for this belief, apparently. What is his source for this belief, i.e., what does he base it on exactly?

.

Ehrman IS the source. It is found in his book "How Jesus Became God".

Yes, I understand that Ehrman is your source for this belief, apparently. What is his source for this belief, i.e., what does he base it on exactly?

.
does ehrman mention the sleeping soldiers - funny ringtone fails to mention them with the 10 million angels.

just how does one resurrect, must be quiet to not disturb the natives.

It seems that Christianity has several “gotta haves” that are essential to the religion: the Genesis fable, of course, god Sr. boinking of Mary, the Ark fable, god Jr. on the cross and later the ‘resurrection’,. The resurrection of god Jr. is quite essential to Christendom as the trifecta is then complete.