The simple brilliance of Darwin's revelation

[abu afak]

If that's the case then your observation is meaningless. You would still hurt a lot of people and destroy a lot of lives if you could successfully convince people that their religion is nonsense. It doesn't matter that some of them would be alright. That's just a deflection from the point.

Surely these people already know there are Different religions.
In fact, at least 75% are wrong IF one is right.
This must have occurred to anyone with a 95 IQ or better.

Surely they've gotten over the Tooth fairy nonsense and grown out of the idea there is a Santa Claus who comes by on Haysoos' birthday.

How exactly are you going to prevent people from learning a religion that's passed down from parents to children, or even prevent them from starting a new religion in the absence of others? Do you not think more religions/spiritual outlets would arise if Christianity disappeared overnight?

That's just it.
There is no major religion without Major Indoctrination.
No desert Island tribes are going to he getting Visions of a fair-haired anglo JC and the Bible.

Some people may be 'hurt' by learning many facts, doesn't mean it's not good to inform of them.
NOT that anyone can prove a negative.
So they are free to keep their fairy tail, even knowing it is a fairy tale.
Secular/cultural Christians.

I am an atheist but still culturally somewhat Jewish.
They can hold on to that as many already do.. UN"hurt."

`

 

[zaangalewa]

Well, maybe that's a comment on YOUR morality and ethics.

You seem not to know what moral is good for and what moral is not good for.

Even in the "pathetic" human race (as you apparently see it), we have figured out how to care about, sympathize with,

About what? About moral? Human ideologists? You are a joker.

and even empathize with other animals (apes, horses, dogs).

I am an animal - everyone is. Other animals are my sisters and broters - this says the theory of evolution. And god's rainbow is in the sky to make clear that his sympathy and empathy is with all human beings and all animals. His sun shines for everyone.

You seem so certain that an advanced race

Advanced what? Why do yo think ET's - if they exist at all - have a biological substance and races?

would view us the way we view insects.

Insects are also our sisters and brothers. And by the way: Our insects need help.

But this race would recognize a degree of sentience and empathy in our species, just as we recognize it in apes and horses and dogs (but less so in insects).

What a strange theory. You have not any plausible idea about - except the size of the universe - whether it is possible that a comparable biology of aliens is able to exist - but you know how they are psychologically. And even in case of our own species you are wrong. Two teenagers in Australia murdered for example a short time ago more than a dozen big kangaroos. Only one child of them survived heavily hurted. Sure care other human beings - but because they are encultured and civilized human beings with a good feeling for life, beauty, truth and responsibilty.

Why would such an advanced race automatically be cruel?

When and where did I say anyting in such a direction?

Maybe this is a projection of your own view of the human race and how YOU would act, if you had dominion over humans.

Maybe you should not use any drugs and try to see in everyone an anti-"Fort Fun Indiana" who shares not your wrong opinions, enemy yours.

Maybe this even reflects your beliefs in a cruel and vain god,

You should really try to listen what Christians say in this context - for example that god is love.

whom you see as having dominion over humans.

Whom I see as my very best find - ... ah sorry "friend" ... - but "find" sounds also not wrong.

So naturally you would assume the same cruelty and vanity of any "higher being".

That's absurde nonsense.

 

[james bond]

Everyone needs some religion and some science because they are looking for the truth. Except one group is right and the rest are wrong.

 

[zaangalewa]

Apparently you did not pay much attention. The vast majority of atheists you will ever meet are of the agnostic variety. They could not and would not say with absolute certainty that no gods or fairies or unicorns or leprechauns exist.

The philosophy agnosticisms speaks not about gods, fairies, unicorns or leprechauns (=creations). In profan words we may perhaps say the philosophy agnosticims tries to find out whether god is real creator or god is "only" a creation of human beings. Agnosticism finds out this problem is philosophically not solveable. One of the main reasons why this is not solveable is it that we are not able to make a difference between intersubjective truth and objective truth in this context. ("Is really true for itself what looks like to be true for us?") and the other main reason is what we are able to say at all. For example in a question like this: "Was god existing or not existing when he created existence?"

But they simply do not accept belief in them.

To say so is only nonsense. Who believes not in unicorns believes not in unicorns. I believe in unicorns and you will not be able to understand what I think about in this context because I will not tell you.

Try to keep that in mind, the next time you try your dusty old parlor trick.

 

[zaangalewa]

You mean like religion has survived for thousands of years in overwhelming numbers across all cultures? A preponderance of evidence like that?

Not only this: Religion created all cultures and civilisations. The hypothese human beings "evolved" and became farmers so they got a lot of free time to makes gods "just for fun" is a wrong hypothese. Not civilization bore religion - religion bore civilization. It were hunter and gatherers who made the first buildings (temples or churches) in Göbekli Tepe. We are able to imagine agriculture was made because more and more people liked to live in the near of such temples.

 

[zaangalewa]

When you started with "as far as I know" ,
I stopped there. I know what you don't know.

ooooox

"o": time without [nearly any] multi-cellular life on our planet
"x": time with [growing wide spread] multi-cellular life on our planet

Here again what I wrote:

As far as I know not any multi-cellular organism was existing a billion years ago. But something was existing what leaded to this what we are now. So we were existing for sure as a concrete possibility of the future of our universe a billion years ago. Now we know which possibility became real - but we don't know anything about any other possibility which not became real. History knows not experiments - what on the other side also means the methods of natural science are not fully compatible with history.

 

[zaangalewa]

This is the science section. Your magical incantations have no use here.

I have not any idea why you decided to be intentionally an extremist idiot and to call this "science". Bye bye, Sir idiot.

(bye = "god be with you")

 

[zaangalewa]

abu afak

Are you sure you know what "funny" means?

 

[Colin norris]

ooooox

"o": time without [nearly any] multi-cellular life on our planet
"x": time with [growing wide spread] multi-cellular life on our planet

Here again what I wrote:

As far as I know not any multi-cellular organism was existing a billion years ago. But something was existing what leaded to this what we are now. So we were existing for sure as a concrete possibility of the future of our universe a billion years ago. Now we know which possibility became real - but we don't know anything about any other possibility which not became real. History knows not experiments - what on the other side also means the methods of natural science are not fully compatible with history.

You keep repeating that.
Knock yourself out son.

 

[ding]

Maybe it is dying out. humans have not been around for very long. Keep that in mind.

So when do you expect humans to stop hallucinating and having false memories? Are these artifacts also going to be extinguished, or can they persist in perpetuity?

Your attacks against religion and people of faith says otherwise.

 

[Anomalism]

Are you saying you believe there is a god?

I'm saying that when it comes to the universe I am painfully, hopelessly ignorant, so I do my best to stay truly neutral in conversations like this. I used to call myself an atheist. I can't speak for others, but for me, atheism and my desire to argue on behalf of it came from a place of anger and resentment. I didn't like that so I changed the way I look at the world.

 

[james bond]

When you started with "as far as I know" ,
I stopped there. I know what you don't know.

Bw.. bw.. bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

You don't even know how to separate your replies nor how to work this forum. This is before we get to what you wish to state.

 

[Anomalism]

Surely these people already know there are Different religions.
In fact, at least 75% are wrong IF one is right.
This must have occurred to anyone with a 95 IQ or better.

I don't understand how a person can be sure of their particular god in light of what you just said. Their faith can be quite powerful and difficult to grapple with. It's pretty annoying sometimes as I'm sure you're aware.

Surely they've gotten over the Tooth fairy nonsense and grown out of the idea there is a Santa Claus who comes by on Haysoos' birthday.

Yeah. None of that was central to the order of their universe though. We're talking about a whole different ball game here.

That's just it.
There is no major religion without Major Indoctrination.

Very likely to be true.

No desert Island tribes are going to he getting Visions of a fair-haired anglo JC and the Bible.

Lol. You're funny when you get on a roll.

Some people may be 'hurt' by learning many facts, doesn't mean it's not good to inform of them.

You're right. It doesn't mean it wouldn't ultimately be a good thing. It very well may be in the end. I just wanted to see if atheists would be willing to acknowledge and take responsibility for what it might mean in the short-term if you could actually win these debates and get through to these people. You'd be ruining the lives of individuals. What do you think would happen to james bond's universe if you convinced him his god isn't real?

NOT that anyone can prove a negative.

Fair enough.

I am an atheist but still culturally somewhat Jewish.

You likely have a more sophisticated mind than your average faither.

They can hold on to that as many already do.. UN"hurt."

Maybe many will, and particularly after a few more generations water down religious extremism. I think many of the heavy believers today would be completely fucked if you could get through to them, though. That's why they'll never let you get through.

 

[zaangalewa]

You keep repeating that.
Knock yourself out son.

Interesting schnapsshot from your try to stay forever in wrongness under all circumstances.




PS: The correct solution seems by the way not to be "ooooox" - it seems to be "ooooooooooooo|ooxx". ( "|" = ~1 billion years). The very most time of the "life" (=duration) of our planet existed not [or nearly not] any multi-cellular life. Asides from science is "multi-cellular life" this what we call normally just simple "life". And this means under very best conditions our planet had not been able to create a biology which had been able to produce a species which is able to use an abstract language and mathematics - what we call somehow an "intelligent species" - although human beings are often the worst idiots so even animals are sometimes more human than human beings on their own. And how many other species on our planet made this step after about 4.5 billion years of existence (or evolution) of life on our planet?

 

[rupol2000]

in fact, natural selection and evolution are not related concepts. Evolution is a trend towards complication, and selection is rejection of those who are not adapted to the current ecology.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I think many of the heavy believers today would be completely fucked if you could get through to them, though.

But why do you think this? The choice to leave behind their faith and outgrow it would still be THEIR choice. When i hear and see people talk about this in their own lives, i don't see them desperate and failing and distraught. I see happy people who seem relieved and feel they made the right choice.

 

[james bond]

What do you think would happen to james bond's universe if you convinced him his god isn't real?

Another Bw... bw... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I can't change my position. The Bible and its prophecies cannot change since God wrote his auto-biography. OTOH, atheism and their atheist science can change as much as they want. Thus, I AM POSITIVE THAT I AM RIGHT ABOUT CREATION and the atheists, atheist scientists, and sinners believe in THE fairy tale.

Life is short. The absolute proof is in one's death.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

in fact, natural selection and evolution are not related concepts. Evolution is a trend towards complication, and selection is rejection of those who are not adapted to the current ecology.

Well that made no sense on any level.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Your attacks against religion and people of faith says otherwise.

Maybe you are confused again. Maybe re-read the questions you quoted.

 

[rupol2000]

Well that made no sense on any level.

What didn't make sense?