The simple brilliance of Darwin's revelation

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Oh well. I cant throw a spear very well either. I will be fine.

So we are in agreement then. Belief in a higher power (spirituality) offers a functional advantage over atheism (materialism) and that's why religion exists and continues to exist.

As you said before...

Fort Fun Indiana said:
the more successful models propagated

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Our views are not even close to the same.

Unfortunately for your parlor trick, they are effectively equal, when it comes to the definition of the word agnostic. In fact, we are both agnostic atheists.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

we are in agreement then. Belief in a higher power (spirituality) offers a functional advantage over atheism (materialism) and that's why religion exists and continues to exist.

No, sorry. I don't believe every single trait of an organism or model must always confer advantage. A successful model means the sum of its parts is successful. It does not mean every trait of the model has an advantage over every other possible trait. That was your error, in assuming otherwise.

 

[ding]

No, sorry. I don't believe every single trait of an organism or model must always confer advantage. A successful model means the sum of its parts is successful. It does not mean every trait of the model has an advantage over every other possible trait. That was your error, in assuming otherwise.

Way to argue against natural selection.

There are two components to natural selection; functional advantage and transfer of functional advantage to the next generation. So natural selection confirms that spirituality is a behavior which leads to success. Otherwise, according to natural selection, it would have been abandoned long ago. As mankind has gained more and more knowledge of his natural surroundings his desire for spirituality has not diminished.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Way to argue against natural selection.

I didn't. Natural selection does not create perfect models. And successful models are successful on the whole by coming to dominate a population. This does mot mean every trait is advantageous over every other possible trait.

But your entire argument relies on this rather elementary error, so i know you are going to proudly commit it for... Ever.

You would lend yourself and your arguments a bit more credibility to specifically argue why such beliefs are -- or were at one point -- advantageous. The fact that they still exist does not cut it, given the fact that the other cases also still exist.

 

[ding]

Natural selection does not create perfect models.

There you have it. You don't believe in natural selection at all.

But putting that aside the continuous and overwhelming belief in a higher power over the history of mankind proves religion offers functional advantages over atheism. The length of time and numbers are your proof. It's not an accident. It's not a one off. It is a persistent condition which has never ceased.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

But putting that aside the continuous and overwhelming belief in a higher power over the history of mankind proves religion offers functional advantages over atheism.

Which, of course, you now have to do, having utterly failed at presenting any good argument for the truth of this.

The length of time and numbers are your proof.

No, that's also wrong. That only shows us that it doesn't create such a disadvantage that it was extinguished from our lineage (Yet. Maybe religion is going in the same direction as wisdom teeth: no longer needed, waste of valuable time and resources)..

You still need to provide an argument for the functional advantage. If you are having a hard time, you can look up the attempts of others. Its not a wild claim. It may very well be true. But you have not presented any good arguments for it. You should brush up before making this attempt again.

 

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Which, of course, you now have to do, having utterly failed at presenting any good argument for the truth of this.





No, that's also wrong. That only shows us that it doesn't create such a disadvantage that it was extinguished from our lineage.

You still need to provide an argument for the functional advantage. If you are having a hard time, you can look up the attempts of others. Its not a wild claim. It may very well be true. But you have not presented any good arguments for it. You should brush up before making this attempt again.

Sure I did. I explained natural selection is about passing down functional advantages and I explained what functional advantage religion has over atheism.

You on the other hand argued that natural selection is perfect and that it's possible that natural selection could make a mistake that has lasted 6,000 years in overwhelming numbers.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I explained what functional advantage religion has over atheism.

Post # please. I must have missed it.

 

[ding]

Post # please. I must have missed it.

Can't you go back and look for yourself? Isn't that what you always tell me to do when I ask for a post number from you?

So when you said in the OP that "the more successful models propagated" that wasn't true?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Can't you go back and look for yourself?

I did. No luck. Post #?

 

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Apparently religion - according to Fort Fun Indiana - has proven natural selection to be false.

 

[ding]

I did. No luck. Post #?

So when you said in the OP that "the more successful models propagated" that wasn't true?

 

[ding]

I did. No luck. Post #?

True or false: There are two components to natural selection; functional advantage and transfer of functional advantage to the next generation.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

True or false: There are two components to natural selection; functional advantage and transfer of functional advantage to the next generation.

Irrelevant. There are 5 mechanism to evolution. Obviously natural selection does not work alone and does not produce and has not produced perfect models, in which every trait is advantageous over every other possible trait.

So it is up to you to argue what functional advantage(s) religion may have provided. Scientists have no problem forming these hypotheses, when they make this claim. But you seem to be having a very hard time.

 

[ding]

Irrelevant. There are 5 mechanism to evolution. Obviously natural selection does not work alone and does not produce and has not produced perfect models, in which every trait is advantageous over every other possible trait.

So it is up to you to argue what functional advantage(s) religion may have provided. Scientists have no problem forming these hypotheses, when they make this claim. But you seem to be having a very hard time.

It's not irrelevant. It's extremely relevant and it's the basis of Darwinism. So answer the question.

Is it true or false that functional advantage and transfer of functional advantage to the next generation is what natural selection is based upon?

 

[ding]

Did you or did you not say:

Darwin's revelation of natural selection owes itself to the same turn of thought. The other models that are not observed? They died off, and the more successful models propagated instead. That being the case, selection bias would greatly influence what we observe today.

And isn't this saying that selection bias is based upon functional advantage?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

It's not irrelevant. It's extremely relevant and it's the basis of Darwinism.

False. By no stretch of the imagination or by any desperate attempt of any faither is the basis of Darwinism the idea that every single trait of every organism that has ever existed confers an advantage.

So, what is your argument that religion (or belief in a special sky daddy in every single puddle and blade of grass) provided a functional advantage to early humans? You can do it. Just put in a little effort.

 

[ding]

False. By no stretch of the imagination or by any desperate attempt of any faither is the basis of Darwinism the idea that every single trait of every organism that has ever existed confers an advantage.

So, what is your argument that religion (or belief in a special sky daddy in every single puddle and blade of grass) provided a functional advantage to early humans? You can do it. Just put in a little effort.

I love how I made you shit all over natural selection.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

See, watch how easy:

Possibly, believing in magical gods as being responsible for observed events conferred an advantage upon early humans in that they could then better apply reason and engage in planning. For example, perhaps the tribe shaman looking up and deciding the sky gods were starting to get angry conferred advantage on the tribe, as they would find shelter before the storm started, instead of being caught in the open.

Perhaps believing that the sabre tooth tiger WAS a god conferred an advantage to early humans, who, by attributing agency, were better able to live alongside these animals and even hunt them.