The simple brilliance of Darwin's revelation

[Anomalism]

You are referring to the special case: gnostic atheism. Really, atheism in general is just not accepting a belief in gods. In that case, no, there is no claim that needs to be supported by evidence or argument. Just lack of a belief.

Look man. I have danced this pedantic dance with atheists before. Be honest and humble enough to see reality or don't; it makes no difference to me. Have a nice day.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Look man. I have danced this pedantic dance with atheists before.

Apparently you did not pay much attention. The vast majority of atheists you will ever meet are of the agnostic variety. They could not and would not say with absolute certainty that no gods or fairies or unicorns or leprechauns exist. But they simply do not accept belief in them. Try to keep that in mind, the next time you try your dusty old parlor trick.

 

[ding]

If that is your opinion, you are entitled to it. I would not agree on theism. But I can see some ways adopting magical belief in anthropomorphic gods may have been an advantage to early humans living a subsistence existence.

No. It's not my opinion. That's what natural selection says. Unless of course you think natural selection does not favor functional advantages and instead favors blind random luck.

 

[Anomalism]

They could not and would not say with absolute certainty that no gods or fairies or unicorns or leprechauns exist.

Are you asserting that you are true neutral when it comes to belief in god? If you are I think you're either in denial or you're being dishonest.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

That's what natural selection says.

False. I can look all over the world and see people who are not monotheists that are thriving.

 

[ding]

False. I can look all over the world and see people who are not monotheists that are thriving.

Through out history every society has overwhelming believed in the existence of a higher power. It's not even close. Why has this continued to exist?

You said it yourself:

the more successful models propagated

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Are you asserting that you are true neutral when it comes to the existence of god?

One does not have to be ?true neutral" to be an agnostic theist. One only has to not accept the belief with 100% certainty that "there are no gods". I think there are likely no gods. or fairies, or unicorns, or leprechauns, either.

Do I KNOW gods do not exist? Nope. I would not pretend to know such a thing. But that is one of the pratfalls of magic: there cannot ever be evidence for or against.

 

[Anomalism]

Through out history every society has overwhelming believed in the existence of a higher power. It's not even close. Why has this continued to exist?

There are certainly qualities that lean more toward neutral for survival, but I would definitely entertain the idea that in some aspects religion has helped humans get to where they are.

 

[Anomalism]

Do I KNOW gods do not exist? Nope

Right. You just believe they don't, without evidence. A faith-based belief.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Through out history every society has overwhelming believed in the existence of a higher power. It's not even close. Why has this continued to exist?

You said it yourself:

And deists, polytheists, and atheists have also propagated. Look around.., they are everywhere.

And if you mean to speak to all magical beliefs of higher powers, then say that. You said theism. Use the correct words, so people don't have to spend all day trying to puzzle out what you mean.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You just believe they don't, without evidence.

No, I believe they likely don't, based not only on there not being a shred of evidence, but also seeing no reason or need for them in order to explain anything, ever. But maybe they do exist. That is not faith. You can give it up now. You are not going to succeed at this weak attempt.

 

[ding]

There are certainly qualities that lean more toward neutral for survival, but I would definitely entertain the idea that in some aspects religion has helped humans get to where they are.

It's not about survival per se. Any functional advantage will be retained and passed down. Here is the best explanation of the functional advantage of religion that I have seen.

"When all is said and done, we are in the end absolutely dependent on the universe; and into sacrifices and surrenders of some sort, deliberately looked at and accepted, we are drawn and pressed as into our only permanent positions of repose. Now in those states of mind which fall short of religion, the surrender is submitted to as an imposition of necessity, and the sacrifice is undergone at the very best without complaint. In the religious life, on the contrary, surrender and sacrifice are positively espoused: even unnecessary givings-up are added in order that the happiness may increase. Religion thus makes easy and felicitous what in any case is necessary; and if it be the only agency that can accomplish this result, its vital importance as a human faculty stands vindicated beyond dispute. It becomes an essential organ of our life, performing a function which no other portion of our nature can so successfully fulfill." William James

 

[Anomalism]

No, I believe they likely don't

Without evidence you lean toward one side. The logical thing is to lean toward neither side in the complete absence of evidence.

not being a shred of evidenc

In either direction. Lack of evidence is not evidence to the contrary, not even close.

That is not faith.

You have faith in your own assumption, which is that god doesn't exist, or "probably" doesn't exist. Excuse me while I roll my eyes again.

You are not going to succeed

Oh, I know. I don't aim to win or succeed in these conversations. I have accepted that I am here simply for catharsis.

 

[ding]

And deists, polytheists, and atheists have also propagated. Look around.., they are everywhere.

And if you mean to speak to all magical beliefs of higher powers, then say that. You said theism. Use the correct words, so people don't have to spend all day trying to puzzle out what you mean.

The functional advantage of faith in a higher power is not shared by atheists. As such the best they can hope for is to suffer without complaint. Whereas people of faith see meaning in suffering. That's the functional advantage of religion.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Without evidence you lean toward one side.

Which is not faith. I lean towards unicorns not existing because of the utter lack of evidence. That is evidence based determination, not faith.

Give it up. You are not going to out your evidence free faith on the same shelf as evidence based determinations. Ever. You will not succeed.

 

[Anomalism]

people of faith see meaning in suffering.

Atheists can see meaning in suffering too. Suffering and adversity are how we grow. Any atheist worth their salt would see meaning in suffering.

 

[Anomalism]

Give it up. You are not going to out your evidence free faith on the same shelf as evidence based determinations. Ever. You will not succeed.

I'm a true agnostic, unlike yourself. I actually used to be a militant atheist back when I was more immature and arrogant.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The functional advantage of faith in a higher power is not shared by atheists

Oh well. I cant throw a spear very well either. I will be fine.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I'm a true agnostic, unlike yourself.

Sorry, that's gibberish. Being agnostic only means you do not know if there are gods or not. That is true of both of us.

 

[Anomalism]

Sorry, that's gibberish. Being agnostic only means you do not know if there are gods or not. That is true of both of us.

Our views are not even close to the same.