The Sheer Incompetence of Progressives

[TruthNotBS]

Yes, stupidity, nonsense and goobely gook, as you state.

Where is that Marxist country you speak of that developed these advanced technologies?

They don't exist.

Mind you, the USSR through much of its history was dealing with foreign invaders (the U.S., UK, France, and 10 other countries invaded socialist Russia after WW1 in 1918), and was almost always with the exception of a few years in the 1930s, always at war with nations trying to destroy it. They came out of WW2, with 28 million dead and much of their national infrastructure in ruins. The socialists picked their self up by their bootstraps, without America's assistance or its "Marshal Plan" provided to Western Europe and Japan, and became a world superpower. Second in the world to the United States. Second largest economy in the world by 1970. These are just a few of the accomplishments of the United Soviet Socialist Republicans, i.e. U.S.S.R:

1. Space Exploration and Rocketry
   
   • Sputnik 1 (1957): The world’s first artificial satellite, marking the start of the Space Age.
   • Vostok 1 (1961): Carried Yuri Gagarin, the first human being in space.
   • Luna Programme (1959–1976): Achieved the first spacecraft to impact the Moon (Luna 2), first unmanned soft landing on the Moon (Luna 9), and first lunar rover (Lunokhod 1).
   • First Woman in Space (1963): Valentina Tereshkova, aboard Vostok 6.
   • Interplanetary Missions: The USSR’s Venera and Mars programs saw the first probes to transmit images from the surface of Venus (Venera series) and attempted early landers on Mars.
2. Nuclear Technology
   
   • Obninsk Nuclear Power Plant (1954): The world’s first grid-connected nuclear power plant.
   • Nuclear Icebreakers: Beginning with the Lenin (1959), the Soviet Union pioneered the use of nuclear-powered icebreakers in the Arctic.
3. Military and Defense Innovations
   
   • T-34 Tank (Introduced 1940): Frequently cited as one of the best tank designs of World War II due to its balance of firepower, armor, and mobility.
   • AK-47 (1947): While not a sole “USSR government lab” invention, it was designed by Mikhail Kalashnikov under a state-directed weapons program. It became the most widely produced assault rifle in history.
   • ICBM Technology: The USSR developed the R-7 Semyorka (1957), the world’s first intercontinental ballistic missile. That same R-7 rocket family also launched Sputnik and Vostok.
4. Medical and Biological Research
   
   • Virology and Vaccine Development: Soviet scientists conducted extensive research into poliovirus, influenza, and other pathogens. They produced vaccines (including advanced polio vaccines) that were distributed domestically and internationally.
   • Mobile Blood Transfusion Stations: Building on earlier Russian blood-transfusion research, the Soviets used large-scale mobile blood banks during WWII, which helped modernize blood-transfusion techniques.
   • Biological Pest Control: Significant early research in biocontrol, including the mass production of viral and bacterial agents to combat agricultural pests.
5. Computing and Cybernetics
   
   • Soviet Computers (BESM Series, MESM, Strela, etc.): Although not as famous as Western models, the USSR built large, powerful mainframes (for the time) used in scientific research, spaceflight control, and military applications.
   • OGAS Project (1960s–1970s): An ambitious plan to create a nationwide computer network—though never fully realized, it reflected Soviet attempts at large-scale information systems before the Western ARPANET blossomed.
6. Fusion Research and Tokamak Reactors
   
   • Tokamak Concept (1950s): Soviet physicists Igor Tamm and Andrei Sakharov proposed the tokamak design, which became one of the leading configurations for magnetic confinement fusion research. Even today, major fusion projects (like ITER) use tokamak-based designs.
7. Heavy Industry and Transportation
   
   • Antonov An-225 Mriya (1988): The largest cargo airplane ever built (Ukrainian SSR design team, but under the Soviet umbrella).
   • Nuclear-Powered Submarines: The Soviets developed advanced submarine propulsion systems and some of the fastest submarines of their era (e.g., the Papa-class, Alpha-class).
   • High-Speed Rail Experiments: While never fully comparable to modern bullet trains, the USSR experimented with turbojet and turbine-powered rail cars (e.g., the ER22 turbojet train) as part of high-speed rail research.
8. Material Science and Chemistry
   
   • Synthetic Diamonds: The Soviets developed processes for producing synthetic diamonds (BARS press technology), which were crucial for industrial use.
   • Titanium Submarine Hulls: Soviet engineers pioneered the large-scale use of titanium in submarines (e.g., the Alfa-class), demonstrating advanced metallurgy.
9. Other Scientific Contributions
   
   • Mathematics and Theoretical Physics: The USSR produced a host of leading mathematicians (Kolmogorov, Pontryagin, Gelfand, etc.) and physicists (Landau, Kapitsa). These contributions spanned everything from probability theory to superconductivity.
   • Dmitri Mendeleev’s Periodic Table predates the Soviet period (1869, Imperial Russia), but the strong emphasis on scientific education in the USSR continued and expanded Russia’s tradition in chemistry and physics.

 

[elektra]

Mind you, the USSR through much of its history was dealing with foreign invaders (the U.S.,

Mind you, the countries around Russia were invaded and occupied by Russia and the USA never invaded Russia.

Marxism can say they killed 100 million people.

BSNotTruth can't even begin his propaganda with truth, which makes the entire post bullsit

 

[elektra]

They came out of WW2, with 28 million dead and much of their national infrastructure in ruins. The socialists picked their self up by their bootstraps, without America's assistance or its "Marshal Plan" provided to Western Europe and Japan, and became a world superpower.

2 lies at the beginning of your crap, the second being the use of the term socialist to describe self-proclaimed Marxists.

 

[elektra]

You’re clinging to this fantasy that capitalism singlehandedly birthed the modern world and that we owe every .... Sorry, but the facts say otherwise. If “capitalism” was so brilliant at funding big, risky ideas, then why was the original internet developed by DARPA (the U.S. military’s research arm)

If only you had a brain. DARPA? Which stole from the French? DARPA, that was one small step that was preceeded by many other steps.

PPP/RS-232 was the birth of the internet, not DARPA.

Western Union deserves more credit than DARPA

Tesla originated the idea of the internet, a shame no socialist government valued the internet when Tesla proposed the internet.

Telsa's patents were used for all our modern devices.

Tesla was not a socialist/Marxist

I could spend all night destroying your dreams

 

[TruthNotBS]

If only you had a brain. DARPA? Which stole from the French? DARPA, that was one small step that was preceeded by many other steps.

PPP/RS-232 was the birth of the internet, not DARPA.

Western Union deserves more credit than DARPA

Tesla originated the idea of the internet, a shame no socialist government valued the internet when Tesla proposed the internet.

Telsa's patents were used for all our modern devices.

Tesla was not a socialist/Marxist

I could spend all night destroying your dreams

First off, your insistence that “the U.S. never invaded Russia” is flat-out ahistorical. U.S. troops, alongside British, French, Japanese, and others, landed in northern Russia (at Archangel) and Siberia in 1918 to support anti-Bolshevik forces, this is well documented as the “Allied intervention” in the Russian Civil War. There were literally over 200K foreign troops on Russian territory trying to help restore the Tsarist or pro-capitalist “White” armies. Denying this is just revisionist nonsense. You're completely full of shit, pretending this never happened.

Likewise, brushing off the 28 million Soviet war dead in WWII is equally absurd. The Soviets bore the brunt of the Nazi invasion, suffering losses on a scale the U.S. never remotely experienced in WWII. Between military and civilian casualties, they lost around 14% of their population. Meanwhile, the U.S. lost less than one percent, and its homeland was never occupied or bombed to rubble.

The USSR emerged devastated and had to rebuild under socialism, without a Marshall Plan–style bailout from the U.S. The FACT, that they achieved superpower status and launched history’s first satellite (Sputnik) and first human into space (Gagarin) while climbing out of that wreckage is a testament to the effectiveness of socialism in quickly developing a nation and the USSR's industrial, scientific, and educational prowess.

As for the internet and other modern innovations, this idea that “DARPA wasn’t government” or “the free market singlehandedly invented everything” is laughable. ARPANET, funded and run by the Department of Defense, was the foundational technology that led to the modern internet. The University of Hawaii (a public research university) created ALOHAnet, a forerunner of Wi-Fi, partially funded by ARPA. GPS was developed by the U.S. military for precision targeting. The lithium-ion battery chemistry that powers smartphones and electric cars today got key backing from public funding.

Google’s core technology came out of publicly funded labs at Stanford. It’s one historical record after another showing government research (including military projects) and universities did the heavy lifting on these breakthrough technologies. Private capital typically waltzes in later to commercialize and profit from them. You're the typical right-wing conservative, ignorant moron.

Claiming “Marxists aren’t socialists” or that “Tesla’s patents are all that matter” is just more obfuscation. Marxists are one major branch of socialism (there are others, too), and yes, Nikola Tesla was a brilliant inventor, but bringing him up doesn’t magically erase the mass of state-funded research that birthed the modern digital world. None of that proves capitalism is some unstoppable engine of innovation; it proves that large-scale public investment, often motivated by non-market concerns (LIKE SERVING THE COUNTRY! NOT BEING A PROFITEERING ASSHOLE), has driven some of humanity’s biggest technological leaps.

You can “spend all night” throwing cheap insults at socialism, but you can’t rewrite what actually happened. The USSR was indeed socialist, and it was invaded by foreign armies right after its revolution in 1917, and it bled more than any other Allied power in WWII, and it still managed massive scientific and industrial achievements. Meanwhile, the modern internet’s foundations weren’t built by a capitalist fairy godmother but rather by a government-funded patchwork of labs, universities, and research agencies. Those are simply historical facts, not propaganda, you freaking retard.

 

[elektra]

you freaking retard.

And we now see who we fight against Dumbasse who uses a derogatory slang term (same as the n-word.)

Down Syndrome children (retards)

You are a rotten fucking human being

 

[TruthNotBS]

And we now see who we fight against Dumbasse who uses a derogatory slang term (same as the n-word.)

Down Syndrome children (retards)

You are a rotten fucking human being

Apparently, you like to dish it out but you can't take it.

 

[elektra]

Equally laughable is the idea that socialism or Marxism is about murdering “skilled, intelligent working-class” people.

BSNotTruth,
Now I must point out that BSNotTruth-TruthNotBS is a despicable human being. Either through ignorance or stupidity, it does not matter. BSNotTruth-TruthNotBS is toilet scum.

Marxism arrested 10's of millions of men and women, no trial. The marxists worked and starved them to death as punishment simply because Marxism needed slave labor.

The Gulags were prison camps in Russia. That is where the skilled working class were murdered by the hand of Marxism.

My people died, my race, by the scum of the earth marxists of russia

 

[elektra]

Apparently, you like to dish it out but you can't take it.

View attachment 1066508​

Apparently you are the biggest baby here, projecting like all red diaper doper babies

 

[TruthNotBS]

BSNotTruth,
Now I must point out that BSNotTruth-TruthNotBS is a despicable human being. Either through ignorance or stupidity, it does not matter. BSNotTruth-TruthNotBS is toilet scum.

Marxism arrested 10's of millions of men and women, no trial. The marxists worked and starved them to death as punishment simply because Marxism needed slave labor.

The Gulags were prison camps in Russia. That is where the skilled working class were murdered by the hand of Marxism.

My people died, my race, by the scum of the earth marxists of russia
View attachment 1066509

Here is my response to your bullshit.

​

 

[elektra]

Here is my response to your bullshit.
View attachment 1066512
​

Yep, Marxist exist to keep Marxism alive at the expense of human life.

Duly noted that BSNotTruth can not defend marxism/communism/socialism/progressivism whatever word you wish to use

 

[TruthNotBS]

Yep, Marxist exist to keep Marxism alive at the expense of human life.

Duly noted that BSNotTruth can not defend marxism/communism/socialism/progressivism whatever word you wish to use

 

[elektra]

View attachment 1066513

Yep, Marxist exist to keep Marxism alive at the expense of human life.

Duly noted that BSNotTruth can not defend marxism/communism/socialism/progressivism whatever word you wish to use

 

[DBA]

Look, your entire “anyone can rise from waiting tables to running the show” mantra ignores how stacked the deck is from birth. Sure, some surgeons and engineers make good money, but they’re still selling their labor for a paycheck and can be tossed aside by any boss or hospital admin if they don’t toe the line. And let’s not pretend that switching jobs is risk-free, people have kids, mortgages, and obligations, hence can’t just pack up on a whim because the “free market” promises them infinite mobility (Everyone is taking "risks"). The reality is that the overwhelming majority of Americans, no matter how skilled or educated, are still beholden to a tiny class that holds the purse strings and reaps most of the rewards.

Those same surgeons and engineers would not be afforded the same lifestyles in a Socialist and most certainly not a Communist country. In a Communist country, the best they could hope for is a few silly perks that most of us would take for granted, like access to grocery stores before the general public. Also, I might add, that you don’t see to understand that these same people would be beholden to the ruling class in government. That is far worse as they make all the rules regarding the people they control. They aren’t beholden to anyone. That is why they are so oppressive. They can be.

If your big “gotcha” for what I said about socialism, is that someone’s family escaped from a socialist country, spare me your anecdotal bullshit parade. Who are these people? Are they the same people who were once exploiting the working class in those countries? Are they the aristocracy? Are they the paid saboteurs and minions of the former ruling class? Your personal anecdotes amount to nothing.

These are people that were not in the ruling class in a former Communist country. They know exactly what it was like. My father in law was a highly educated (valedictorian) engineer in this former country. He did ok, but realized that he would never rise above mediocrity in that country. He left EVERYTHING and escaped to come to the US with nothing and start over. He would be the first to tell you that you don’t have a clue what you are talking about. Only those at the top levels of the ruling class had a standard of living even similar to what average folks in the US have.

Every nation, capitalist, socialist, or otherwise, comes with its own set of challenges. But the question is, which system prioritizes people’s well-being over obscene private profit? Under capitalism, we’re watching billionaires beg for UBI and automation subsidies because they know the jig is up once robots do the bulk of production. Then what’s the point of a class of privileged capitalist "owners"? If we’re going to rely on government safety nets anyway, we might as well democratize production and let the people who actually create value: THE WORKING CLASS, call the shots. That’s not “childish” or “idealistic” thinking; it’s the logical evolution of an economic system that has milked the public for far too long. You're the one who needs to grow up.

The system I live in doesn’t milk me for anything other than more and more taxes to pay for liberal pipe dreams and wasteful spending. I can only imagine how bad it would be if we gave them the wheel and allowed them to drive the economy by controlling the means of production. What an absolute horror show that would be.

 

[SeaMajor7]

View attachment 1066513

Swim to CUBA, pissant Marxist ASSHOLE.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Those same surgeons and engineers would not be afforded the same lifestyles in a Socialist and most certainly not a Communist country. In a Communist country, the best they could hope for is a few silly perks that most of us would take for granted, like access to grocery stores before the general public. Also, I might add, that you don’t see to understand that these same people would be beholden to the ruling class in government. That is far worse as they make all the rules regarding the people they control. They aren’t beholden to anyone. That is why they are so oppressive. They can be.



These are people that were not in the ruling class in a former Communist country. They know exactly what it was like. My father in law was a highly educated (valedictorian) engineer in this former country. He did ok, but realized that he would never rise above mediocrity in that country. He left EVERYTHING and escaped to come to the US with nothing and start over. He would be the first to tell you that you don’t have a clue what you are talking about. Only those at the top levels of the ruling class had a standard of living even similar to what average folks in the US have.



The system I live in doesn’t milk me for anything other than more and more taxes to pay for liberal pipe dreams and wasteful spending. I can only imagine how bad it would be if we gave them the wheel and allowed them to drive the economy by controlling the means of production. What an absolute horror show that would be.

You keep insisting that surgeons or engineers would be “condemned” to a worse lifestyle in any socialist system and that only a privileged few had anything resembling an American standard of living in the Soviet bloc. Ironically, you gloss over the fact that in the United States, the average person faces enough student debt to last a lifetime, the threat of medical bankruptcy, and stagnant wages, realities that hardly scream “endless opportunity” for all. Our members of Congress, make six figures and have government-funded healthcare forever, regardless of whether they're in office or not. Talk about privilege for government officials.

According to available data, the average salary in the Soviet Union during the 1980s, converted to USD, was roughly around $200 per month. This is based on an average monthly Soviet ruble salary of around 150 rubles, with a conversion rate of approximately 1.3 rubles to 1 USD at the time. Rent was like $30 monthly, and other vital goods and services were likewise, priced much lower than in the US. A member of the Soviet "Congress" made a salary between $800 and $1500 monthly. The highest ranking government official in the USSR, made about $1500-$2000 monthly. The disparity between average incomes for regular people, and their government leaders was about the same % wise, as what we have here in the US.

However, unlike what occurs here where our members of Congress have healthcare and other benefits for the rest of their lives, the average Joe American doesn't have such benefits, unlike in the USSR where everyone had healthcare, a tuition-free education..etc.

No DBA, “waiting in line for groceries” is not some universal law of socialism, nor does it invalidate the possibility of a better, more democratically and rationally managed economy. You keep disingenuously harping about supposed scarcity in the Soviet Union in the 20th century, a new socialist country under completely different conditions to what exists today in the 21st century with advanced automation and AI.

You conveniently forget to mention the many challenges the Soviets had to contend with, caused by their well-entrenched, organized, and equipped, capitalist imperialist enemies that were constantly trying to destroy it, economically, militarily, and otherwise. Why did the US, Britain, France, and 11 other countries invade Russia in 1918? To destroy the socialist Red Army, but they failed, miserably. Over a quarter million foreign troops, fighting alongside the White Tsarist Army, lost and were defeated by the mid-1920s.

Soviet Russia didn't have a moment of peace with only a brief exception of several years in the 1930s, when it became an industrial juggernaut, transforming an agrarian society into a modern, industrialized country, rivaling Western nations that had more than a century head-start in industrialization. The Soviets were a new country, and they made extraordinary accomplishments despite all of the obstacles.

Thousands of Western engineers and scientists migrated to the Soviet Union to contribute their skills, to this new socialist nation, to escape the Great Depression in the US and Western Europe. Then a great catastrophe and injustice was committed against the USSR. In 1941, the Soviets were invaded by 4 million Germans, resulting in the death of 28 million Soviet citizens. 14% of their population was wiped out in WW2, whereas the USA, safely tucked between two vast oceans, only lost 0.03% of their population or 460k (Russia 28 million vs US less than half a million). Seven out of ten German soldiers were fighting on the Eastern front, in Soviet Russia, not on the Western front against the US and Britain.

The Soviets had to pick themselves up by their bootstraps after WW2 and rebuild their new nation, after losing much of its infrastructure. There was no "Marshal Plan" for the USSR, because the condition set by the US for them to receive assistance, was to adopt capitalism, hence they chose to remain socialist and rebuild their country on their own. Less than 15 years later, the USSR is a nuclear superpower launching rockets and people into space. That's socialism.

Your anecdote about your father-in-law might be sincere, but that doesn’t eclipse the fact that many Americans born here experience a permanent ceiling on their economic prospects because of substandard K-12 education, unaffordable healthcare, and structurally biased hiring practices.

If you think “just work harder” is a magical cure, explain why roughly two-thirds of the bankruptcies in this country are linked to medical debt (see David U. Himmelstein et al., “Medical Bankruptcy in the United States,” The American Journal of Medicine, 2009). These people aren’t lazy; they’re trapped in a system that punishes them for simply getting sick or not being born into capital.

Your claim that raising taxes for the wealthiest would stifle growth is a tired leftover from Reaganomics, and historically inaccurate. In the 1950s, the top marginal tax rate in the U.S. hovered around 91%, a time widely considered an economic golden era. Even by 1980, it was still at 70%. That didn’t stop this country from building highways, sending men to the moon, and creating a robust middle class.

When Ronald Reagan slashed the top rate to 28%, wages for everyday workers stagnated or outright declined, while the income of the richest few skyrocketed (see Economic Policy Institute data). So, complaining about taxes “milking” you, while you’re in the mid-six-figures and paying less in marginal taxes than those in that so-called golden age, falls a bit flat.

It’s also laughable to argue that “only a tiny ruling class” would exist in a socialist system as if we currently have no such thing in capitalism. A handful of billionaires, see Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, and company, are actively outpacing entire national economies with their net worth, then turning around to lobby the government for subsidies. If we’re so against letting “the government” run things, why not also oppose multi-billionaires who effectively do the same via their massive political donations and corporate capture of Congress?

This is well-documented in Jane Mayer’s Dark Money and corroborated by countless studies (e.g., Gilens and Page, “Testing Theories of American Politics,” Perspectives on Politics, 2014), showing that policy tends to follow the preferences of economic elites far more than the general public.

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

That is right, not a dime went to prevent this fire yet California spent billions.

Part of the money spent went towards an electric fire truck.
Part of the money spent sent fires trucks and equipment to the Ukraine.
Part of the money is spent making it so green energy does not start another deadly fire.

But not a dime spent on diesel fuel for one lousy bulldozer to make a fire break to save lives.

That is all that is needed, bulldozers making fire breaks.

In the mountains?

Fire breaks don't much in 75 mph winds.

 

[DBA]

In the mountains?

Fire breaks don't much in 75 mph winds.

Fire breaks coupled with raking the forest floor clean of dead wood does wonders. Have Democrats never been camping before and started a fire? You look for dry wood to start one.

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

Fire breaks coupled with raking the forest floor clean of dead wood does wonders.

Virtually impossible, with the amount of forestland, then you add wind?

Have Democrats never been camping before and started a fire? You look for dry wood to start one.

Forest fires only burn dry wood?

 

[Toro]