The Second Brexit Referendum

[Tommy Tainant]

The way forward on Brexit is a new poll on whatever EU deal is reached | Andrew Adonis

The first referendum did not give these clowns a blank cheque. This seems to be reasonable.

 

[Swagger]

We leave the EU at midnight on the 29th of March 2019.

Deal with it.

 

[Humanity]

The way forward on Brexit is a new poll on whatever EU deal is reached | Andrew Adonis

The first referendum did not give these clowns a blank cheque. This seems to be reasonable.

I think that the UK is done with referendums!

Vote has been cast... UK now needs to get on with it!

It would be like... Oh, no, we don't like the result of the general election, let's have another one!

 

[Humanity]

And whilst we are at it... EU immigration offer could lead to Brexit reversal, claims Adonis

Wonder is anyone can tell me why ...

"The decision of the British people to leave the European Union could be reversed next year if France and Germany agree that the UK can take control over immigration while staying in the EU single market"

Isn't that one of the reasons for Brexit?

WTF does it have to do with France and Germany what the British people decide?

I didn't realise that we were a member of the "Federal Republic of Franco-German Alliance".

The EU is supposed to be a level playing field, it isn't! Germany has WAY too much influence and France has its head up Germany's arse so....

 

[Challenger]

Oh, no, we don't like the result of the general election, let's have another one!

Erm...we do, every 3-5 years, depending on how popular the government of the time thinks it is.

I didn't realise that we were a member of the "Federal Republic of Franco-German Alliance".

We're not, we're members of a pan-european "alliance" of 28 member states.

...what the British people decide?

I get tired of reading this. The reality is that a disconnected, reactionary section of the electorate, 37% to be precise, won a referendum that should never have been called in the first place (but that's another topic entirely). 63% of the then electorate voted to remain or abstained. To tout this as a "decision of the British people" all the time, is innacurate, at best, and is certainly not a mandate.

The EU is supposed to be a level playing field, it isn't! Germany has WAY too much influence and France has its head up Germany's arse so....

...and the UK leaving is going to change the status quo, how? UK foreign policy for the last 300 years has always been to prevent any one power or bloc achieving hegemony in Europe. The Tories have thrown out the baby with the bathwater. A Franco-German dominated Europe will happen, and after we leave, there will be nothing we can do about it.

We'll become the "grumpy old man" that is always drunk and swears at passersby, ignored and treated with condescending contempt, while Europe gets on with more important matters; either that or we'll become the 52nd state. Best get practicing singing the Star Spangled Banner, I suppose.

 

[Humanity]

Oh, no, we don't like the result of the general election, let's have another one!

Erm...we do, every 3-5 years, depending on how popular the government of the time thinks it is.

I didn't realise that we were a member of the "Federal Republic of Franco-German Alliance".

We're not, we're members of a pan-european "alliance" of 28 member states.

...what the British people decide?

I get tired of reading this. The reality is that a disconnected, reactionary section of the electorate, 37% to be precise, won a referendum that should never have been called in the first place (but that's another topic entirely). 63% of the then electorate voted to remain or abstained. To tout this as a "decision of the British people" all the time, is innacurate, at best, and is certainly not a mandate.

The EU is supposed to be a level playing field, it isn't! Germany has WAY too much influence and France has its head up Germany's arse so....

...and the UK leaving is going to change the status quo, how? UK foreign policy for the last 300 years has always been to prevent any one power or bloc achieving hegemony in Europe. The Tories have thrown out the baby with the bathwater. A Franco-German dominated Europe will happen, and after we leave, there will be nothing we can do about it.

We'll become the "grumpy old man" that is always drunk and swears at passersby, ignored and treated with condescending contempt, while Europe gets on with more important matters; either that or we'll become the 52nd state. Best get practicing singing the Star Spangled Banner, I suppose.

Hey Challenger...

Voting every 3 -5 years is part of the 'democratic' process and yes, we can vote in a new government if we so choose...

A "Pan-European Alliance" that is run, managed and controlled by one country! My comment relates to the comments made by the German chancellor in particular... Sure, she can have an opinion, what I don't think right is that she speaks as the leader of the "Pan-American Alliance"... There are SUPPOSED to be other mechanisms in place to carry out the 'divorce'.

You comment relating to the British people... Well, that is one of the major failings of democracy isn't it... Or is it? Abstention is as good a vote as going to the polling booth... It's not like the Brexit vote wasn't promoted enough. It wasn't a last minute snap referendum was it... People knew pretty much what they were having to choose between. the fact that the majority chose NOT to vote is not that relevant.

The Franco-German domination has existed for year... That, for me, is why the Brexit vote to leave was a good one... Not that I am anti France of anti German... Just that the EU as we know it today is NOT what it was originally intended to be... There is a "bloc" that controls and 'forces' members to follow their 'guidance'(?)...

Got the Star Spangled Banner nailed years ago!

For me, the Brexit leave vote was taken for the WRONG reasons... Had the referendum taken place 3 years ago the outcome, I believe, would have been very different!

 

[Baron]

The way forward on Brexit is a new poll on whatever EU deal is reached | Andrew Adonis

The first referendum did not give these clowns a blank cheque. This seems to be reasonable.

All homos, Muslims, lesbians, commies, wackos, masturbators, blacks, chinks etc. demand stop of Brexit?

 

[Challenger]

Oh, no, we don't like the result of the general election, let's have another one!

Erm...we do, every 3-5 years, depending on how popular the government of the time thinks it is.

I didn't realise that we were a member of the "Federal Republic of Franco-German Alliance".

We're not, we're members of a pan-european "alliance" of 28 member states.

...what the British people decide?

I get tired of reading this. The reality is that a disconnected, reactionary section of the electorate, 37% to be precise, won a referendum that should never have been called in the first place (but that's another topic entirely). 63% of the then electorate voted to remain or abstained. To tout this as a "decision of the British people" all the time, is innacurate, at best, and is certainly not a mandate.

The EU is supposed to be a level playing field, it isn't! Germany has WAY too much influence and France has its head up Germany's arse so....

...and the UK leaving is going to change the status quo, how? UK foreign policy for the last 300 years has always been to prevent any one power or bloc achieving hegemony in Europe. The Tories have thrown out the baby with the bathwater. A Franco-German dominated Europe will happen, and after we leave, there will be nothing we can do about it.

We'll become the "grumpy old man" that is always drunk and swears at passersby, ignored and treated with condescending contempt, while Europe gets on with more important matters; either that or we'll become the 52nd state. Best get practicing singing the Star Spangled Banner, I suppose.

Hey Challenger...

Voting every 3 -5 years is part of the 'democratic' process and yes, we can vote in a new government if we so choose...


My comment relates to the comments made by the German chancellor in particular... Sure, she can have an opinion, what I don't think right is that she speaks as the leader of the "Pan-American Alliance"... There are SUPPOSED to be other mechanisms in place to carry out the 'divorce'.

You comment relating to the British people... Well, that is one of the major failings of democracy isn't it... Or is it? Abstention is as good a vote as going to the polling booth... It's not like the Brexit vote wasn't promoted enough. It wasn't a last minute snap referendum was it... People knew pretty much what they were having to choose between. the fact that the majority chose NOT to vote is not that relevant.

The Franco-German domination has existed for year... That, for me, is why the Brexit vote to leave was a good one... Not that I am anti France of anti German... Just that the EU as we know it today is NOT what it was originally intended to be... There is a "bloc" that controls and 'forces' members to follow their 'guidance'(?)...

Got the Star Spangled Banner nailed years ago!

For me, the Brexit leave vote was taken for the WRONG reasons... Had the referendum taken place 3 years ago the outcome, I believe, would have been very different!

Hi Humanity,

"A "Pan-European Alliance" that is run, managed and controlled by one country!" You mean NATO? why are we fine being told what to do by the USA but not Germany?

"...the fact that the majority chose NOT to vote is not that relevant." True, but I get irritated when people claim there is an overwhelming mandate to leave the EU, there isn't; and as for those people who didn't vote; an abstention is often seen as satisfaction with the status quo and not a support for one opinion or another. Yes, the Brexiters won the vote and we are now committed to leaving the EU, but please let's not subscribe to the fantasy that the majority of the British people are so keen to leave.

"The Franco-German domination has existed for year... That, for me, is why the Brexit vote to leave was a good one... Not that I am anti France of anti German... Just that the EU as we know it today is NOT what it was originally intended to be... There is a "bloc" that controls and 'forces' members to follow their 'guidance'(?)..." Wow. So rather than try to get the 25 remaining members on board to a British view of Europe, instead we pick up sticks and let the French and Germans just do as they please? inside, you have the chance to change things, outside, you have zilch.

"For me, the Brexit leave vote was taken for the WRONG reasons... Had the referendum taken place 3 years ago the outcome, I believe, would have been very different!"

Really? What was so different 3 years ago?

 

[Challenger]

The way forward on Brexit is a new poll on whatever EU deal is reached | Andrew Adonis

The first referendum did not give these clowns a blank cheque. This seems to be reasonable.

All homos, Muslims, lesbians, commies, wackos, masturbators, blacks, chinks etc. demand stop of Brexit?

 

[Humanity]

Oh, no, we don't like the result of the general election, let's have another one!

Erm...we do, every 3-5 years, depending on how popular the government of the time thinks it is.

I didn't realise that we were a member of the "Federal Republic of Franco-German Alliance".

We're not, we're members of a pan-european "alliance" of 28 member states.

...what the British people decide?

I get tired of reading this. The reality is that a disconnected, reactionary section of the electorate, 37% to be precise, won a referendum that should never have been called in the first place (but that's another topic entirely). 63% of the then electorate voted to remain or abstained. To tout this as a "decision of the British people" all the time, is innacurate, at best, and is certainly not a mandate.

The EU is supposed to be a level playing field, it isn't! Germany has WAY too much influence and France has its head up Germany's arse so....

...and the UK leaving is going to change the status quo, how? UK foreign policy for the last 300 years has always been to prevent any one power or bloc achieving hegemony in Europe. The Tories have thrown out the baby with the bathwater. A Franco-German dominated Europe will happen, and after we leave, there will be nothing we can do about it.

We'll become the "grumpy old man" that is always drunk and swears at passersby, ignored and treated with condescending contempt, while Europe gets on with more important matters; either that or we'll become the 52nd state. Best get practicing singing the Star Spangled Banner, I suppose.

Hey Challenger...

Voting every 3 -5 years is part of the 'democratic' process and yes, we can vote in a new government if we so choose...


My comment relates to the comments made by the German chancellor in particular... Sure, she can have an opinion, what I don't think right is that she speaks as the leader of the "Pan-American Alliance"... There are SUPPOSED to be other mechanisms in place to carry out the 'divorce'.

You comment relating to the British people... Well, that is one of the major failings of democracy isn't it... Or is it? Abstention is as good a vote as going to the polling booth... It's not like the Brexit vote wasn't promoted enough. It wasn't a last minute snap referendum was it... People knew pretty much what they were having to choose between. the fact that the majority chose NOT to vote is not that relevant.

The Franco-German domination has existed for year... That, for me, is why the Brexit vote to leave was a good one... Not that I am anti France of anti German... Just that the EU as we know it today is NOT what it was originally intended to be... There is a "bloc" that controls and 'forces' members to follow their 'guidance'(?)...

Got the Star Spangled Banner nailed years ago!

For me, the Brexit leave vote was taken for the WRONG reasons... Had the referendum taken place 3 years ago the outcome, I believe, would have been very different!

Hi Humanity,

"A "Pan-European Alliance" that is run, managed and controlled by one country!" You mean NATO? why are we fine being told what to do by the USA but not Germany?

"...the fact that the majority chose NOT to vote is not that relevant." True, but I get irritated when people claim there is an overwhelming mandate to leave the EU, there isn't; and as for those people who didn't vote; an abstention is often seen as satisfaction with the status quo and not a support for one opinion or another. Yes, the Brexiters won the vote and we are now committed to leaving the EU, but please let's not subscribe to the fantasy that the majority of the British people are so keen to leave.

"The Franco-German domination has existed for year... That, for me, is why the Brexit vote to leave was a good one... Not that I am anti France of anti German... Just that the EU as we know it today is NOT what it was originally intended to be... There is a "bloc" that controls and 'forces' members to follow their 'guidance'(?)..." Wow. So rather than try to get the 25 remaining members on board to a British view of Europe, instead we pick up sticks and let the French and Germans just do as they please? inside, you have the chance to change things, outside, you have zilch.

"For me, the Brexit leave vote was taken for the WRONG reasons... Had the referendum taken place 3 years ago the outcome, I believe, would have been very different!"

Really? What was so different 3 years ago?

No, not NATO... The 'influence', the 'power' that Germany carries over Europe is pretty shocking... Sure, every country within the EU has a voice to comment on Brexit... Yet Merkle speak like she IS the voice of the EU, the one who is going to call the shots over Brexit... Merkle along with Schäuble do NOT run the EU, or, at least, shouldn't be running the EU! Schäuble coming out with some pretty strong language as to how Brexit will take place is NOT within his remit surely! Schäuble dictating what can and cannot be discussed during the negotiations is DEFINITELY not in his remit!

Abstention is one of those 'quirks' of democracy... It CAN be used as a positive AND an negative... However, again, those who didn't vote, in my opinion, have no right to complain if they wanted Remain...

The EU, in it's current form, is a broken down 'club'... It simply doesn't work. You think that the UK has not tried to make changes within the EU over the years? Brexit has sent shockwaves throughout Europe... The UK will not be the only country contemplating/leaving the EU in one form or other.

In my opinion, and I have NO evidence of this, is that the Brexiteers won simply based upon immigration. It was very much a 'racist' vote! Had the referendum happened PRE 'Syrian' refugees then I do not believe that we would be having this conversation right now. It was a kneejerk reaction to refugees flooding the EU.

Now, a little insight... I am British living in an EU country, I haven't lived in the UK for approaching 20 years... I am officially a resident in my chosen country... Are they going to kick me out once Brexit goes through? I don't know... I think it HIGHLY unlikely but it is possible!

Whilst on a 'visit' last year to hospital I had the chance to speak with doctors and surgeons about Brexit, mainly because they asked me what I thought... I chose to be very 'neutral' in my responses because I wanted to hear THEIR opinions... The 'shocking' thing that came from virtually EVERY person was that it was not the UK who should be leaving the EU, it should be Germany!

No, it's not going to be an easy ride, yes, there needs to be some serious and hard negotiations.... FROM THE UK!

I don't see it quite as gloomily as others but I also understand that there are going to be a few bumps along the way!

 

[Challenger]

he 'influence', the 'power' that Germany carries over Europe is pretty shocking.

Germany has been a major player in Europe since 1871 when they "took over" from France in respect of power and influence over the continent. Even if the EU didn't exist, Germany would have a similar level of influence, regardless.

However, again, those who didn't vote, in my opinion, have no right to complain if they wanted Remain...

Fair point, but that's not what I find irritating, it's the constant drone of the assertion from the MSM that there is an overwhelming mandate for Brexit; there isn't. The views of the 48% who voted remain are not being factored into the equation by a government which is both inept and hell bent on getting out at any cost, to appease a faction in it's own party.

Brexit has sent shockwaves throughout Europe... The UK will not be the only country contemplating/leaving the EU in one form or other.

...or alternatively, it could spark a reformist movement that brings the remaing members closer together, we have o way of knowing.

In my opinion, and I have NO evidence of this, is that the Brexiteers won simply based upon immigration. It was very much a 'racist' vote!

I tend to agree with you on that score.

 

[Humanity]

he 'influence', the 'power' that Germany carries over Europe is pretty shocking.

Germany has been a major player in Europe since 1871 when they "took over" from France in respect of power and influence over the continent. Even if the EU didn't exist, Germany would have a similar level of influence, regardless.

However, again, those who didn't vote, in my opinion, have no right to complain if they wanted Remain...

Fair point, but that's not what I find irritating, it's the constant drone of the assertion from the MSM that there is an overwhelming mandate for Brexit; there isn't. The views of the 48% who voted remain are not being factored into the equation by a government which is both inept and hell bent on getting out at any cost, to appease a faction in it's own party.

Brexit has sent shockwaves throughout Europe... The UK will not be the only country contemplating/leaving the EU in one form or other.

...or alternatively, it could spark a reformist movement that brings the remaing members closer together, we have o way of knowing.

In my opinion, and I have NO evidence of this, is that the Brexiteers won simply based upon immigration. It was very much a 'racist' vote!

I tend to agree with you on that score.

Yep, Germany has been a force in Europe for quite some time... The power that Germany exerts over Europe would not be the same as it has now if the EU didn't exist... Germany would not be able to dictate what other countries do as far as their own policies, finances, currency.

I agree, there is no overwhelming mandate for Brexit... However, what I find irritating is the complaining from those who DIDN'T vote and now want a 2nd referendum! Will they turn out for that one?!?!

I cannot see that there will be a reformist movement within the EU following Brexit... Especially with the proposals of a two tier, two speed EU that will have the 'elitist' countries in tier one and the poorer countries in tier two... There are already rumblings across the EU on this one... Who decides who goes into which tier? Germany most likely!

If it were possible to reform the EU, for me, reform it into the economic union that it was originally intended then I would be happy to move back to that... Trying to integrate a country like, Bulgaria, for example, into a club that is already unbalanced, is an impossible task!

Greece has been in trouble, even pre EU... Their last 'hiccup' should have resulted in them leaving the EU and the Euro... It was Germany that 'refused' to let them go... Preferring to lend MORE money that will never be repaid, just to keep the 'club' together!

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The way forward on Brexit is a new poll on whatever EU deal is reached | Andrew Adonis

The first referendum did not give these clowns a blank cheque. This seems to be reasonable.

Again, the use of referenda to determine such significant matters is reckless, irresponsible idiocy – illustrating yet again why a democracy is a poor form of government.

 

[montelatici]

he 'influence', the 'power' that Germany carries over Europe is pretty shocking.

Germany has been a major player in Europe since 1871 when they "took over" from France in respect of power and influence over the continent. Even if the EU didn't exist, Germany would have a similar level of influence, regardless.

However, again, those who didn't vote, in my opinion, have no right to complain if they wanted Remain...

Fair point, but that's not what I find irritating, it's the constant drone of the assertion from the MSM that there is an overwhelming mandate for Brexit; there isn't. The views of the 48% who voted remain are not being factored into the equation by a government which is both inept and hell bent on getting out at any cost, to appease a faction in it's own party.

Brexit has sent shockwaves throughout Europe... The UK will not be the only country contemplating/leaving the EU in one form or other.

...or alternatively, it could spark a reformist movement that brings the remaing members closer together, we have o way of knowing.

In my opinion, and I have NO evidence of this, is that the Brexiteers won simply based upon immigration. It was very much a 'racist' vote!

I tend to agree with you on that score.

Yep, Germany has been a force in Europe for quite some time... The power that Germany exerts over Europe would not be the same as it has now if the EU didn't exist... Germany would not be able to dictate what other countries do as far as their own policies, finances, currency.

I agree, there is no overwhelming mandate for Brexit... However, what I find irritating is the complaining from those who DIDN'T vote and now want a 2nd referendum! Will they turn out for that one?!?!

I cannot see that there will be a reformist movement within the EU following Brexit... Especially with the proposals of a two tier, two speed EU that will have the 'elitist' countries in tier one and the poorer countries in tier two... There are already rumblings across the EU on this one... Who decides who goes into which tier? Germany most likely!

If it were possible to reform the EU, for me, reform it into the economic union that it was originally intended then I would be happy to move back to that... Trying to integrate a country like, Bulgaria, for example, into a club that is already unbalanced, is an impossible task!

Greece has been in trouble, even pre EU... Their last 'hiccup' should have resulted in them leaving the EU and the Euro... It was Germany that 'refused' to let them go... Preferring to lend MORE money that will never be repaid, just to keep the 'club' together!

The EEC was not solely an economic union. The Treaty establishing the EEC, the Treaty of Rome, affirmed in its preamble that signatory States were "determined to lay the foundations of an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe". The member States specifically affirmed the political objective of a progressive political integration.
Most Europeans understand that only further integration will prevent individual European countries from becoming vassals of existing and future superstates, the U.S., China, India, Russia, Brazil, etc.
Greece could have left the EU anytime they wanted.

As a union, the EU has about the same diversity in income among states as the U.S.

GDP per capita richest US state (DC) 175,000 USD per year poorest (MS) 25,000 USD per year.
GDP per capita richest EU state (LUX) 104,000 Euro per year poorest (ROM) 22,340 Euro per year.

 

[Humanity]

he 'influence', the 'power' that Germany carries over Europe is pretty shocking.

Germany has been a major player in Europe since 1871 when they "took over" from France in respect of power and influence over the continent. Even if the EU didn't exist, Germany would have a similar level of influence, regardless.

However, again, those who didn't vote, in my opinion, have no right to complain if they wanted Remain...

Fair point, but that's not what I find irritating, it's the constant drone of the assertion from the MSM that there is an overwhelming mandate for Brexit; there isn't. The views of the 48% who voted remain are not being factored into the equation by a government which is both inept and hell bent on getting out at any cost, to appease a faction in it's own party.

Brexit has sent shockwaves throughout Europe... The UK will not be the only country contemplating/leaving the EU in one form or other.

...or alternatively, it could spark a reformist movement that brings the remaing members closer together, we have o way of knowing.

In my opinion, and I have NO evidence of this, is that the Brexiteers won simply based upon immigration. It was very much a 'racist' vote!

I tend to agree with you on that score.

Yep, Germany has been a force in Europe for quite some time... The power that Germany exerts over Europe would not be the same as it has now if the EU didn't exist... Germany would not be able to dictate what other countries do as far as their own policies, finances, currency.

I agree, there is no overwhelming mandate for Brexit... However, what I find irritating is the complaining from those who DIDN'T vote and now want a 2nd referendum! Will they turn out for that one?!?!

I cannot see that there will be a reformist movement within the EU following Brexit... Especially with the proposals of a two tier, two speed EU that will have the 'elitist' countries in tier one and the poorer countries in tier two... There are already rumblings across the EU on this one... Who decides who goes into which tier? Germany most likely!

If it were possible to reform the EU, for me, reform it into the economic union that it was originally intended then I would be happy to move back to that... Trying to integrate a country like, Bulgaria, for example, into a club that is already unbalanced, is an impossible task!

Greece has been in trouble, even pre EU... Their last 'hiccup' should have resulted in them leaving the EU and the Euro... It was Germany that 'refused' to let them go... Preferring to lend MORE money that will never be repaid, just to keep the 'club' together!

The EEC was not solely an economic union. The Treaty establishing the EEC, the Treaty of Rome, affirmed in its preamble that signatory States were "determined to lay the foundations of an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe". The member States specifically affirmed the political objective of a progressive political integration.
Most Europeans understand that only further integration will prevent individual European countries from becoming vassals of existing and future superstates, the U.S., China, India, Russia, Brazil, etc.
Greece could have left the EU anytime they wanted.

As a union, the EU has about the same diversity in income among states as the U.S.

GDP per capita richest US state (DC) 175,000 USD per year poorest (MS) 25,000 USD per year.
GDP per capita richest EU state (LUX) 104,000 Euro per year poorest (ROM) 22,340 Euro per year.

There is no doubting that the Treaty of Rome was designed to bring EU countries closer together, as is clearly specified in the treaty...

However, in my opinion, that "closeness" is way beyond what is written in the treaty.

This is an opinion, NOT what is written in the treaty... "The member States specifically affirmed the political objective of a progressive political integration."

Interesting that you speak of U.S., China, India, Russia, Brazil, etc. in a negative way...

Greece could NOT leave the EU... Germany did everything in its power to force Greece to stay... Greece will remain, as it has always been, a state in debt!

I fail to see what the comparison between the US and EU has to do with anything to be honest... Want to clarify?

I'm not sure where you get your GDP figures from because they are WAY off based upon World Bank figures! And you missed Bulgaria who's GDP per capita is significantly lower than Romania!

 

[anotherlife]

The EU was correct to establish, that the UK arranged brexit as a result of the implosion of the British middle class.

The English peons that made brexit a reality are no more than 50 % of that country. The referendum was eager with such a narrow margin, no safety %.

The English peons will still not fill in the jobs that now the EU citizens are doing. So the only result of brexit will be the replacement of Europe immigrants with Pakistanis.

So, whose real interest is brexit? It is the British banks' real interest, because by shutting down immigration they shut down emigration. And shutting down emigration is the key to have the stupid British public where they want it. Hehehe.