The Saudis Are Not Friends of the West

[Annie]

I wouldn't pretend to understand the machinations of the regime or country. For the most part it appears that diplomatically they wish to be considered 'moderate' for the ME, conservative regarding religion. They do not treat non-royals well, they use slavery. They are not our friends. Several links at site and there's alot more all over the web by others:

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZTU1YWI5NWI4MWMyYmI0ZTdlYzE2YzA1MjI2MzZmZTA=

Wednesday, August 01, 2007

Pulp Non-Fiction [Stanley Kurtz]

Here’s a story with huge implications for freedom of speech (all negative), and it’s apparently gone almost entirely unreported in the mainstream press. According to the Chronicle of Higher Education (subscription required), under threat of a law suit, Cambridge University Press has just agreed to pulp all unsold copies of the 2006 book, Alms for Jihad: Charity and Terrorism in the Islamic World. According to the Chronicle, this is the fourth such book on terrorism funding to be pursued by a libel action. The Chronicle quotes Rachel Ehrenfeld, director of the American Center for Democracy, whose own book, Funding Evil: How Terrorism is Financed–and How to Stop It is one of the four books.

In an interview on Monday, Ms. Ehrenfeld characterized as "despicable" Cambridge's decision to settle this week, a move the press has defended as necessary and just. Ms. Ehrenfeld, who is a friend of Mr. Burr's [one of the authors of Alms for Jihad], said that, as she understands it, press officials "caved immediately."

"They didn't even consider the evidence that the authors had given them," she said. "They received a threatening letter, and they immediately caved in and said, Do whatever it takes. Pay them whatever they want. Ban the book, destroy the book, we don't want this lawsuit."

In a blog post entitled, "Attention Authors: Be afraid, very afraid....especially if you write about the Saudis and their support of terrorism," Emory University professor, Deborah Lipstadt elaborates. In addition to the links within Lipstadt’s post, you can find related stories at the website of Ehrenfeld’s American Center for Democracy. Given MSM’s silence, this looks like one for the blogosphere.

08/01 10:03 AM

 

[Mr. P]

Oh HELL no they're not our friends! Our presence there all these years can be summed up with the phrase, "It's ALL about oil". And they screw us on that too...OPEC.

 

[Annie]

Oh HELL no they're not our friends! Our presence there all these years can be summed up with the phrase, "It's ALL about oil". And the screw us on that too...OPEC.

I agree and the citizens, non-royals, truly hate us. What pisses me off is all the capitulation by the West, whether US or something like Cambridge Press.

 

[Gunny]

I wouldn't pretend to understand the machinations of the regime or country. For the most part it appears that diplomatically they wish to be considered 'moderate' for the ME, conservative regarding religion. They do not treat non-royals well, they use slavery. They are not our friends. Several links at site and there's alot more all over the web by others:

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZTU1YWI5NWI4MWMyYmI0ZTdlYzE2YzA1MjI2MzZmZTA=

All of those ME countries that claim to be our friends have a ruling class, and the impoverished. The pretend to be our friends so we'll bail them out like we did Kuwait.

 

[Annie]

All of those ME countries that claim to be our friends have a ruling class, and the impoverished. The pretend to be our friends so we'll bail them out like we did Kuwait.

Kuwait then and now makes Saudis look extremists.

 

[Diuretic]

Those so-called "Royal" families are land grabbers anyway. The House of Saud is despised by many other Arabs. The Saudis are mediaevelist Wahabbists. Public executions for breaches of Sharia law.

 

[Vintij]

No matter how much we try to quantify the behavioristic aspects of the saudis or the mentalistic aspects of islam and how it relates to democracy, we will never be accepted in the few nations that have not jumped on the democratic global bandwagon. Eventually the entire world and every nation will be some sort of democracy but, converting to that form of government in the middle east, is equivalent to oppression, if your an extremist. So alot of the times, democracy is put in place just to do buisness, but the true extremists will never accept anything western other than their money and/or weapons. Why? Because they want to be free to manipulate anyone who can be manipulated. Its theological greed. Wanting god all for yourself and your group, hating those who dont want him so much, and eventually... Killing those who dare to ask you to take the focus off of him for a minute.

 

[Bullypulpit]

I wouldn't pretend to understand the machinations of the regime or country. For the most part it appears that diplomatically they wish to be considered 'moderate' for the ME, conservative regarding religion. They do not treat non-royals well, they use slavery. They are not our friends. Several links at site and there's alot more all over the web by others:

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZTU1YWI5NWI4MWMyYmI0ZTdlYzE2YzA1MjI2MzZmZTA=

And this surprises you because...? A significant amount of funding for the Sunni insurgents in Iraq comes from Saudi Arabia. The majority of the suicide bombers in Iraq are foreign nationals and most of those from Saudi Arabia. Tis latter being a benefit to the Saudi royal family as it siphons off radicals that would otherwise be blowing themselves up in Riyadh and on the doorsteps of the House of Saud. The radicalism of wahabism lies at the root of Al Qaeda's radicalism.

Saudi Arabia is playing, and has always played, its own game. And America's unwillingness to give up its dependence on the oil teat have made it a player in that game. In Iraq, we are now seeing the true cost of sitting at the table in that game.

 

[dilloduck]

And this surprises you because...? A significant amount of funding for the Sunni insurgents in Iraq comes from Saudi Arabia. The majority of the suicide bombers in Iraq are foreign nationals and most of those from Saudi Arabia. Tis latter being a benefit to the Saudi royal family as it siphons off radicals that would otherwise be blowing themselves up in Riyadh and on the doorsteps of the House of Saud. The radicalism of wahabism lies at the root of Al Qaeda's radicalism.

Saudi Arabia is playing, and has always played, its own game. And America's unwillingness to give up its dependence on the oil teat have made it a player in that game. In Iraq, we are now seeing the true cost of sitting at the table in that game.

Where are you getting the stats on the nationality of these homocide bombers ?

 

[Mr. P]

And this surprises you because...? A significant amount of funding for the Sunni insurgents in Iraq comes from Saudi Arabia. The majority of the suicide bombers in Iraq are foreign nationals and most of those from Saudi Arabia. Tis latter being a benefit to the Saudi royal family as it siphons off radicals that would otherwise be blowing themselves up in Riyadh and on the doorsteps of the House of Saud. The radicalism of wahabism lies at the root of Al Qaeda's radicalism.

Saudi Arabia is playing, and has always played, its own game. And America's unwillingness to give up its dependence on the oil teat have made it a player in that game. In Iraq, we are now seeing the true cost of sitting at the table in that game.

In agreement twice in two weeks? People are gonna talk ya know.

 

[DeadCanDance]

I wouldn't pretend to understand the machinations of the regime or country. For the most part it appears that diplomatically they wish to be considered 'moderate' for the ME, conservative regarding religion. They do not treat non-royals well, they use slavery. They are not our friends. Several links at site and there's alot more all over the web by others:

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZTU1YWI5NWI4MWMyYmI0ZTdlYzE2YzA1MjI2MzZmZTA=

Good, you're learning. Glad to see it.

This may be a good learning opportunity, to expand this discussion. It is well known among the well informed, that US support for the authoritarian Saudi royals, and other Arab dictators is a primary reason that fuels al qaeda, and affiliated extremists.

This is not to excuse terrorist bombings. Its to expand understanding of the Al Qaeda movement: its ideology and goals.

Al Qaeda does not "hate us for our freedoms", as the Bush Admin likes to assert. They know its not true, but it sounds good to say. Al Qaeda doesn't give a crap about our bill of rights. Nor, do they have any interest in "taking over" the U.S. and ruling Kansas City and Memphis. Sure, our pornography, our free-wheeling culture, our morality may shock and offend their conservative muslim sensibilities. But, that's not why they attack us.

They attack us because we support, and prop up, apostate Arab rulers who they (al qaeda) consider to be dictators, puppets, and false muslims. They understand that without US Support, the Saudi royals, the Kuwaiti Royals, the Egyptian dictator, and the Jordanian King would probably not last very long. Their goal in attacking us, is to force us to abandon support for these autocratic arab dictators, so they can be replaced by "real" muslims (in their view).

In short, their primary goal, is the overthrow of apostate Arab monarch and dictators, by undermining our support of those regimes, or causing us to withdraw support for those regimes. .

 

[Annie]

Good, you're learning. Glad to see it.

This may be a good learning opportunity, to expand this discussion. It is well known among the well informed, that US support for the authoritarian Saudi royals, and other Arab dictators is a primary reason that fuels al qaeda, and affiliated extremists.

This is not to excuse terrorist bombings. Its to expand understanding of the Al Qaeda movement: its ideology and goals.

Al Qaeda does not "hate us for our freedoms", as the Bush Admin. likes to assert. They know its not true, but it sounds good to say. Al Qaeda doesn't give a crap about our bill of rights. Nor, do they have any interest in "taking over" the U.S. and ruling Kansas City and Memphis. Sure, our pornography, our free-wheeling culture, our morality may shock and offend their conservative muslim sensibilities. But, that's not why they attack us.

They attack us because we support, and prop up, apostate Arab rulers who they (al qaeda) consider to be dictators, puppets, and false muslims. They understand that without US Support, the Saudi royals, the Kuwaiti Royals, the Egyptian dictator, and the Jordanian King would probably not last very long. Their goal in attacking us, is to force us to abandon support for these autocratic arab dictators, so they can be replaced by "real" muslims (in their view).

In short, their primary goal, is the overthrow of apostate Arab monarch and dictators, by undermining our support of those regimes, or causing us to withdraw support for those regimes. .

I'm so excited, the wise one believes I'm making progress! Here I was, thinking that it's possible that while supporting the ideas behind the WOT, it pays to acknowledge instances of where our purported 'friends' are not. Unlike so many on the left or right, I'm not married to the idea that an administration is always wrong or right.

 

[dilloduck]

Good, you're learning. Glad to see it.

This may be a good learning opportunity, to expand this discussion. It is well known among the well informed, that US support for the authoritarian Saudi royals, and other Arab dictators is a primary reason that fuels al qaeda, and affiliated extremists.

This is not to excuse terrorist bombings. Its to expand understanding of the Al Qaeda movement: its ideology and goals.

Al Qaeda does not "hate us for our freedoms", as the Bush Admin likes to assert. They know its not true, but it sounds good to say. Al Qaeda doesn't give a crap about our bill of rights. Nor, do they have any interest in "taking over" the U.S. and ruling Kansas City and Memphis. Sure, our pornography, our free-wheeling culture, our morality may shock and offend their conservative muslim sensibilities. But, that's not why they attack us.

They attack us because we support, and prop up, apostate Arab rulers who they (al qaeda) consider to be dictators, puppets, and false muslims. They understand that without US Support, the Saudi royals, the Kuwaiti Royals, the Egyptian dictator, and the Jordanian King would probably not last very long. Their goal in attacking us, is to force us to abandon support for these autocratic arab dictators, so they can be replaced by "real" muslims (in their view).

In short, their primary goal, is the overthrow of apostate Arab monarch and dictators, by undermining our support of those regimes, or causing us to withdraw support for those regimes. .

And the consequences of them accomplishing their primary goal ?

 

[DeadCanDance]

And the consequences of them accomplishing their primary goal ?

If we didn't depend on Saudi oil, I wouldn't give a crap if the Saudi royal family fell, to wahabi extremists.

That's why we need to quickly wean ourselves off saudi oil. If we can wean ourselves off Persian Gulf oil, I say that we let the Saudi and Kuwait royals fend for themselves.

 

[Vintij]

We are too dependent on saudi oil to launch an investigation into the royal ties to different extreme organisations. We are basically turning the other cheek, because we have to. Our oil consumption is too high to jeprodize that with conflicts of interest. We only care about fighting terrorists, if they wont give us oil.

 

[dilloduck]

If we didn't depend on Saudi oil, I wouldn't give a crap if the Saudi royal family fell, to wahabi extremists.

That's why we need to quickly wean ourselves off saudi oil. If we can wean ourselves off Persian Gulf oil, I say that we let the Saudi and Kuwait royals fend for themselves.

Again--what are the consequences for the world if the Wahibi extremist accomplish their primary goal?

 

[Annie]

Again--what are the consequences for the world if the Wahibi extremist accomplish their primary goal?

The Koran?

 

[dilloduck]

The Koran?

yup---Wahibi style at that--complete with nukes !

 

[DeadCanDance]

Again--what are the consequences for the world if the Wahibi extremist accomplish their primary goal?

Uhhh, if the saudi royal family fell to extremists, we would have a major problem with world oil supplies and the world economy.

That's bad for us in the short term. If we get off persian gulf oil in the long term, I don't give a crap what happens to saudi arabia. Why should you?

Al qaeda had no capacity and no goals to invade america and rule kansas city. You need to wean yourself off that fantasy, if in fact thats what you believe. They attack us to drive us appart from our alleged allies - the saudi royals, the kuwaiti royals, and the other "aposate" muslim regimes.

I was in favor of staying on the offensive against al qaeda in south asia, pakistan, and afghanistan. I recognize its a big problem, as long as we are dependent on the persian gulf for our economy.

I was NOT in favor of diverting most of our resources to fight a two-bit secular dictator in Iraq, who had nothing to do with 9/11, and in fact considered islamic extremists a threat to his own regime.

 

[dilloduck]

Uhhh, if the saudi royal family fell to extremists, we would have a major problem with world oil supplies and the world economy.

That's bad for us in the short term. If we get off persian gulf oil in the long term, I don't give a crap what happens to saudi arabia. Why should you?

Al qaeda had no capacity and no goals to invade america and rule kansas city. You need to wean yourself off that fantasy, if in fact thats what you believe. They attack us to drive us appart from our alleged allies - the saudi royals, the kuwaiti royals, and the other "aposate" muslim regimes.

I was in favor of staying on the offensive against al qaeda in south asia, pakistan, and afghanistan. I recognize its a big problem, as long as we are dependent on the persian gulf for our economy.

I was NOT in favor of diverting most of our resources to fight a two-bit secular dictator in Iraq, who had nothing to do with 9/11, and in fact considered islamic extremists a threat to his own regime.

So do you suggest appeasement? The wahibists can have the whole Middle East ? (I'm sure they will promise to go no further)