The Saudis Are Not Friends of the West

[Mr. P]

I'm so excited, the wise one believes I'm making progress! Here I was, thinking that it's possible that while supporting the ideas behind the WOT, it pays to acknowledge instances of where our purported 'friends' are not. Unlike so many on the left or right, I'm not married to the idea that an administration is always wrong or right.

I think you deserve a special sticker for learning SOooo much today!

 

[Annie]

I think you deserve a special sticker for learning SOooo much today!

Thank you! I'm entering it into my notebook.

 

[JeffWartman]

I see the Bush apologists have ignored this thread.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Where are you getting the stats on the nationality of these homocide bombers ?

<blockquote>About 45% of all foreign militants targeting U.S. troops and Iraqi civilians and security forces are from Saudi Arabia; 15% are from Syria and Lebanon; and 10% are from North Africa, according to official U.S. military figures made available to The Times by the senior officer. Nearly half of the 135 foreigners in U.S. detention facilities in Iraq are Saudis, he said. <a href=http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-saudi15jul15,0,3132262.story?coll=la-home-center>L.A. Times</a></blockquote>

"Homocide"...? Is that some sort of gay bashing rhetoric? It's "HOMICIDE".

 

[Annie]

<blockquote>About 45% of all foreign militants targeting U.S. troops and Iraqi civilians and security forces are from Saudi Arabia; 15% are from Syria and Lebanon; and 10% are from North Africa, according to official U.S. military figures made available to The Times by the senior officer. Nearly half of the 135 foreigners in U.S. detention facilities in Iraq are Saudis, he said. <a href=http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-saudi15jul15,0,3132262.story?coll=la-home-center>L.A. Times</a></blockquote>

"Homocide"...? Is that some sort of gay bashing rhetoric? It's "HOMICIDE".

I'm so confused. I thought they were all Iraqis, with maybe 3% being foreigners, isn't that what the left said? You mean, the flypaper is working?

 

[Bullypulpit]

In agreement twice in two weeks? People are gonna talk ya know.

Ohhh...Stop it you silly. You're making me blush. Besides, I haven't even sent you flowers.

 

[Annie]

Ohhh...Stop it you silly. You're making me blush. Besides, I haven't even sent you flowers.

You haven't sent any to me either! Dam it!

 

[Bullypulpit]

I'm so confused. I thought they were all Iraqis, with maybe 3% being foreigners, isn't that what the left said? You mean, the flypaper is working?

Did you hear about the latest NIE? You know... the one where Al Qaeda has a safe base of operations in Pakistan and is planning to send cells here, and may have already done so? No...the "fly-paper" is not working. The suicide bombers are write-offs...cannon-fodder. Iraq is the training ground for the next generation of Al Qaeda operatives who, like their current leadership, will continue to use the cannon-fodder to terrorize populations around the world. It should have been patently obvious, for some time now, that the military, except for special ops units, are too blunt a tool to use against terrorist threats. The Bush administration strategy has done nothing but marginalize and radicalize Muslim populations not just in the ME, but around the world.

 

[Annie]

Did you hear about the latest NIE? You know... the one where Al Qaeda has a safe base of operations in Pakistan and is planning to send cells here, and may have already done so? No...the "fly-paper" is not working. The suicide bombers are write-offs...cannon-fodder. Iraq is the training ground for the next generation of Al Qaeda operatives who, like their current leadership, will continue to use the cannon-fodder to terrorize populations around the world. It should have been patently obvious, for some time now, that the military, except for special ops units, are too blunt a tool to use against terrorist threats. The Bush administration strategy has done nothing but marginalize and radicalize Muslim populations not just in the ME, but around the world.

And who is it that the surge is targeting?

 

[Bullypulpit]

You haven't sent any to me either! Dam it!

Sorry, but if I sent flowers to either of you, my wife would be insanely jealous. She thinks I'm a saint, and I'm not going to do anything to dissuade her from that opinion.

 

[Bullypulpit]

And who is it that the surge is targeting?

According to the administration statements, it's supposed to be "volatile neighborhoods in Baghdad". You know...where Sunnis and Shi'ias are killing each other in what can only be described as a civil war. In reality, who knows?

 

[DeadCanDance]

So do you suggest appeasement? The wahibists can have the whole Middle East ? (I'm sure they will promise to go no further)

Are you drunk? I said no such thing. I said in the short term, to go after al qaeda in south asia, instead of going after some two bit secular iraqi dictator, like your president did. You and your president diverted us from the primary mission of taking apart al qaeda.

I also said a long term strategy is to wean ourselves of our dependence to persian gulf oil - so we aren't drawn anymore into their bullshit conflicts.

What makes you think thats appeasement? A lot of conservatives have said the very same thing - including Bush. Remember his "we're addicted to oil" speech?

 

[dilloduck]

Are you drunk? I said no such thing. I said in the short term, to go after al qaeda in south asia, instead of going after some two bit secular iraqi dictator, like your president did. You and your president diverted us from the primary mission of taking apart al qaeda.

I also said a long term strategy is to wean ourselves of our dependence to persian gulf oil - so we aren't drawn anymore into their bullshit conflicts.

What makes you think thats appeasement? A lot of conservatives have said the very same thing - including Bush. Remember his "we're addicted to oil" speech?

And in the short term we do what in the Mid-east? Just leave ? Go fight the wahibbists in South Asia? Any particular country ?

 

[DeadCanDance]

And in the short term we do what in the Mid-east? Just leave ? Go fight the wahibbists in South Asia? Any particular country ?

Seriously dude, you seem like you're about 15 years old. You don't focus on and read other people's posts. You're questions are simplistic, black and white world type questions. I'm not going to waste much more time repeating things I've said, and there are far more intelligent adults I should spend time debating.

Short version:

No, we're not "leaving the middle east". Anyone who is even moderately well informed, knows we have permanent bases throughout the persian gulf, in relatively stable friendly countries. Its not my job to educate you about US military posture in the middle east.

Second, yes, short term, we do need to focus on where al qaeda's core strenghth and leadership is: south asia, pakistan, afghanistan. Your president diverted us to Iraq, a country with no ties to international anti-american jihadists.

Third, a long term plan is energy independence. So we don't have to get involved in the affairs of some pissant countries with Arab monarchies and dictators. At that point, if you fell compelled to go fight for the Saudi Royal family, then leave and go fight for them. I won't give a crap about the Saudis when we don't need their oil anymore.

 

[dilloduck]

Seriously dude, you seem like you're about 15 years old. You don't focus on and read other people's posts. You're questions are simplistic, black and white world type questions. I'm not going to waste much more time repeating things I've said, and there are far more intelligent adults I should spend time debating.

Short version:

No, we're not "leaving the middle east". Anyone who is even moderately well informed, knows we have permanent bases throughout the persian gulf, in relatively stable friendly countries. Its not my job to educate you about US military posture in the middle east.

Second, yes, short term, we do need to focus on where al qaeda's core strenghth and leadership is: south asia, pakistan, afghanistan. Your president diverted us to Iraq, a country with no ties to international anti-american jihadists.

Third, a long term plan is energy independence. So we don't have to get involved in the affairs of some pissant countries with Arab monarchies and dictators. At that point, if you fell compelled to go fight for the Saudi Royal family, then leave and go fight for them. I won't give a crap about the Saudis when we don't need their oil anymore.

"Black and white world type questions" ? Oh my--so sorry. Would you prefer some mealy mouth rhetorical BS that doesn't mean anything ? Having the Saudi Royals as an ally is currently much better than throwing them to the Wahibbist swords. Moderate allies in the mid east (who are just as dependent on our money for their survival as we are their oil) make maintaining our permanent bases there much easier while preventing the Wahibbists from accomplishing their primary goals at the same time.

Attack al queada in Pakistan ? Oh sure--let's give that whirl.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

exactly. saudi's are our enemies