The Right To Bear Arms

[Wry Catcher]

LOL, my opinion is and remains that the NRA enables criminals, the insane, addicts and all around haters easy access to guns. Your little ad hominem does not refute my claim.

And that's just it - it is just your opinions and they are uneducated opinions at that. The rest of us know that it is a reality that the NRA protects the 2nd Amendment, promotes and provides gun safety and proper gun use, and ensures that American's retain their right to defend themselves.

And my opinion of you is well known too. Your foolishness aside, the NRA is doing a piss poor job on keeping Americans safe:

Key Gun Violence Statistics | Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence

 

[EatMorChikin]

heres the problem with republicans ....they are gullible ... they will believe just about everything they are told by their handlers
Hillary will take your guns away ... do you think she and the entire democrats would be that stupid to try and do that ??? really !!!!! do you ??? hears what they would have to do.... first get every democrat on board to pass legislation in removing the second amendment, how well do you think thats going to work you idiots republicans ??? then get the majority of the people in the country on board with them so they know they can get reelected ... mind you, this is how stupid you republicans are ... you would believe this crap that they would be this stupid to try and remove the second amendment ... I guess your stupidity is cause by your mother and your uncles being your father is the cause ...here we have 294 post saying all kinds of bull shit reason that you believe we Dems will take the second amendment away ... because thats what it is ... right wing bull shit ... they can't come up with any kind of plan to run on, they rely on you ignorance they intern go after the flag burners, people on welfare, guns, and gays and you fools lap it up ... I can believe republicans are this stupid .... that they feel we democrats would be so stupid to try and repeal the 2 amendment ... a amend meant that we believe that every person should have a gun ... we don't believe that gun should be a AR 15 .. or any automatic weapons ... by us democrats saying this you have been duped into beliebing we will repeal the second amendment, how moronic is that ...

First it's one type, than the next. And why is the Armalite 15 the posterchild for gun control? Because those for gun control, are trying to regulate shit, they know nothing about. Oohhh it's a black scary boogie man gun. As far as I'm concerned, I should have an M-16. The infringement has already went too far. Liberals will not stop, until we are limited to single shot musket loaders.

Let's look at it. High Capacity Mags, high rate of fire, the type of weapon that has done the most murdering in schools, theaters, public areas. The death and wounded would have been a lot lower if a handgun or bolt action were to be used. You 2nd amendment clowns all seem to want more slaughter like it's been used. They are weapons or war, not self defense. You want one of the best home defense weapon, I suggest you look into the 410 pistol using 3 double aught buck pellets. Your .556 rifle kills two houses over. Just like it's not a real good idea to use your 700 bdl 30 cal since it will do the same thing. The difference in the 7.62 is that the rifle is usually a bolt action. You can also use a shotgun using the defender shells that are designed to hold the pattern without the extreme penetration. Common sense says that a 40 SW is a better choice as well if you are a fair shot or real close.

The only reason to have a .556 AR style weapon is to shoot long and fast. And that is why it's the choice of mass shootings. WE need to fix it where not every Tom Dick and Omar can get his or her hands on one. In the 20s, the Thompson 45 cal MG was taken out of circulation in 1926. Stop this nonsense and save a few lives in the process.

High rate of fire? One pull, one shot. Absolutely no different than any other semi auto rifle. A Ruger mini 14 uses a bolt, and I can fire that just as fast. And it uses the same .223 as an Armalite 15. But it isn't black and scary, so you idiots aren't afraid of that. And I have a 30 round mag for my mini 14.

If you are ignorant of a subject, don't try and act like you know. Because you don't!

 

[Wry Catcher]

Hillary won't take our guns.

Dear Lakhota
But the DOCTORS and COURTS can. By declaring people mentally unfit.

You cannot trust the "legal lobby" who have infiltrated every branch of govt.

If they can make people pay for health INSURANCE and call it health CARE,
under "penalty by tax fines" and call it FREE CHOICE,
they can mandate anything they want. Now that the FEDS have their hands on doctors and health care regulations!

Do you even realize the abuse of power that has been going on? And more and more power keeps shifting to govt?

A friend of mine lost her house and property to legal abuse this way .Got declared incompetent WITHOUT any doctor EVER examining her, and blocked from suing in court to defend her property. ALL POLITICAL because the lawyers and judges wanted her GONE.

So this is already happening, abusing legal power to declare people incompetent and unfit for political agenda.

This is really fringe thinking. I suggest you run to the library and take out a copy of Lord of the Flies, a great primer for anyone contemplating libertarianism.

Yep, FREEMEN need a primer.


.

I don't know about all "FREEMEN"; I do now you need a therapist.

Once again, you are either a liar, or cannot read and comprehend (I know you are both)

Never did I say "most criminals get guns legally".

Answer the question I asked, and don't post another straw man, you're not smart enough to pull that off.

HOW DO CRIMINALS AND THE INSANE GET GUNS?

They buy them illegally

So a seller commits a crime too. Yes or no?

Of course. So you're thinking drug dealers wouldn't sell guns because that would be illegal?

And I thought you had no real argument. Nailed it ...

Have you ever sold a gun and not done a background check?

Would you sell a gun to a neighbor who was so agitated at his wife and said he wanted to buy a gun to kill her? If yes, you are a criminal; if no, you believe in gun control

Dear Wry Catcher:
The difference is NOT treating the LAW ABIDING citizens with the same 'deprivation of liberty' as the criminals who have mental or criminal issues or records.

That's the problem.

How do we screen out the truly dangerous people? Without infringing on rights of law abiding citizens?

One solution Wry Catcher is the process of spiritual healing that has been used effectively and VOLUNTARILY to diagnose the cause and also to CURE criminal illness, abuse and addiction issues.

Since this is VOLUNTARY, that's why it isn't implemented through govt, which has no jurisdiction over people's spiritual process of healing of their internal issues and sickness.

Only AFTER a crime has occurred is the govt authorized to intervene.

So that's where the conflict lies.

The solution would be for PEOPLE to VOLUNTARILY participate and apply these methods to screen out mental and criminal illness per community WITHOUT being forced by govt.

Maybe we could find a way to do that, sort of like the OPPOSITE of the ACA health care mandates that imposed the wrong way.

If people want to qualify for the health care program of their choice (either free market or single payer through govt), the condition could be added that everyone go through the spiritual healing diagnostics to cure any potential cause of illness that is internal, in order to reduce the COST so health care can be afforded for everyone. something like that.

this same process would SCREEN OUT the mentally ill and criminally dangerous people at the same time, not for punishment but for free treatment and recovery counseling. So everyone would win that way.

Which is the greatest "infringement", a license to own, possess or have in one's custody and control a gun; and, that all guns be registered with a national registry

Or,

Having a police office come to your door telling you, your child, sibling, parent or spouse was shot and killed at ABA Mall in America?

 

[kaz]

Once again you biases color your judgment. Most guns are sold legally, yet criminals seem to get them too easily as do mass murderers who are (presumably) insane.

Answer this question: How do criminals and the insane get guns?

Yes, most guns are sold legally, yet most crimes are committed with guns that are obtained illegally.

You call me "biased" yet exactly as I said, you're targeting legal gun owners, not criminals

So, if most crimes committed with a gun are obtained illegally, what method(s) does the perp use to obtain the gun?

In my case, it was STOLEN, out of a LOCKED vehicle, sitting on PRIVATE PROPERTY, and the one stealing it DIDN'T have an invitation to be there.

Tell me what background check that perp is going to go through in order to possess that gun.

What's funny is the leftists whacko crowd like Wry make the same argument with drugs. You can't keep drugs out, stop funding organized crime!

Then with the exact same scenario with guns, they're like oh, Criminals won't break the law, that would be illegal

I do wonder about your sanity. Did you report the theft to the agency of original jurisdiction? If not, why not? If all guns were registered, and when stolen reported to a nation registry, a) you might get your gun back, and b) when the gun was found, it could be traced back to the time and date stolen, and potentially open the door to a number of leads when followed to other guns and stolen property in the hands of criminals.

I do wonder about your sanity. I'm not the one who said I had a gun stolen

 

[kaz]

They buy them illegally

So a seller commits a crime too. Yes or no?

Of course. So you're thinking drug dealers wouldn't sell guns because that would be illegal?

And I thought you had no real argument. Nailed it ...

Have you ever sold a gun and not done a background check?

Would you sell a gun to a neighbor who was so agitated at his wife and said he wanted to buy a gun to kill her? If yes, you are a criminal; if no, you believe in gun control

In your scenario, that's just mentally retarded. "Gun control" is government. My making a personal decision who I want to do business with being the same as government limiting all our rights is just wow, stupid even by your lofty standards of stupid.

My choice is free market. You're is a government controlled market. Those are the same, what a whack job.

So what about it turns out the husband is the nut job and he already has a gun and the wife wants one and then learns about the waiting period? You going to her funeral? You going to contribute to her children's college fund?

Temper temper, I have a right to express my opinions as do you. Sadly, you lack the intelligence to argue you position without losing your temper and calling me a nut. I suppose you know this, and also know that your behavior might restrict your right to own a gun, if discovered in a background check. I suggest you find a good therapist.

OK, you need to calm down, guy. It's just an internet discussion, don't get so upset. Maybe you can play in the back yard a while and come back when you calm down.

And just to be clear, you can wonder about my sanity, that's cool, but if I call you a nut, that's out of bounds. Seems the boundaries constantly move with you

 

[P@triot]

LOL, my opinion is and remains that the NRA enables criminals, the insane, addicts and all around haters easy access to guns. Your little ad hominem does not refute my claim.

And that's just it - it is just your opinions and they are uneducated opinions at that. The rest of us know that it is a reality that the NRA protects the 2nd Amendment, promotes and provides gun safety and proper gun use, and ensures that American's retain their right to defend themselves.

And my opinion of you is well known too. Your foolishness aside, the NRA is doing a piss poor job on keeping Americans safe:

Key Gun Violence Statistics | Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence

It's not the NRA banning firearms and creating victim zones. It's Dumbocrats doing that my friend.

 

[kaz]

Hillary won't take our guns.

Dear Lakhota
But the DOCTORS and COURTS can. By declaring people mentally unfit.

You cannot trust the "legal lobby" who have infiltrated every branch of govt.

If they can make people pay for health INSURANCE and call it health CARE,
under "penalty by tax fines" and call it FREE CHOICE,
they can mandate anything they want. Now that the FEDS have their hands on doctors and health care regulations!

Do you even realize the abuse of power that has been going on? And more and more power keeps shifting to govt?

A friend of mine lost her house and property to legal abuse this way .Got declared incompetent WITHOUT any doctor EVER examining her, and blocked from suing in court to defend her property. ALL POLITICAL because the lawyers and judges wanted her GONE.

So this is already happening, abusing legal power to declare people incompetent and unfit for political agenda.

This is really fringe thinking. I suggest you run to the library and take out a copy of Lord of the Flies, a great primer for anyone contemplating libertarianism.

Yep, FREEMEN need a primer.


.

I don't know about all "FREEMEN"; I do now you need a therapist.

They buy them illegally

So a seller commits a crime too. Yes or no?

Of course. So you're thinking drug dealers wouldn't sell guns because that would be illegal?

And I thought you had no real argument. Nailed it ...

Have you ever sold a gun and not done a background check?

Would you sell a gun to a neighbor who was so agitated at his wife and said he wanted to buy a gun to kill her? If yes, you are a criminal; if no, you believe in gun control

Dear Wry Catcher:
The difference is NOT treating the LAW ABIDING citizens with the same 'deprivation of liberty' as the criminals who have mental or criminal issues or records.

That's the problem.

How do we screen out the truly dangerous people? Without infringing on rights of law abiding citizens?

One solution Wry Catcher is the process of spiritual healing that has been used effectively and VOLUNTARILY to diagnose the cause and also to CURE criminal illness, abuse and addiction issues.

Since this is VOLUNTARY, that's why it isn't implemented through govt, which has no jurisdiction over people's spiritual process of healing of their internal issues and sickness.

Only AFTER a crime has occurred is the govt authorized to intervene.

So that's where the conflict lies.

The solution would be for PEOPLE to VOLUNTARILY participate and apply these methods to screen out mental and criminal illness per community WITHOUT being forced by govt.

Maybe we could find a way to do that, sort of like the OPPOSITE of the ACA health care mandates that imposed the wrong way.

If people want to qualify for the health care program of their choice (either free market or single payer through govt), the condition could be added that everyone go through the spiritual healing diagnostics to cure any potential cause of illness that is internal, in order to reduce the COST so health care can be afforded for everyone. something like that.

this same process would SCREEN OUT the mentally ill and criminally dangerous people at the same time, not for punishment but for free treatment and recovery counseling. So everyone would win that way.

Which is the greatest "infringement", a license to own, possess or have in one's custody and control a gun; and, that all guns be registered with a national registry

Or,

Having a police office come to your door telling you, your child, sibling, parent or spouse was shot and killed at ABA Mall in America?

False dichotomy.

Also begging the question.

You've presented zero plans on how to keep guns from criminals, you're only targeting honest citizens.

Again, a drug lord puts drugs on a plane, flies them into the US, teenagers buy them.

That same drug lord can't throw some guns on the plane and sell them to criminals, because ....

You have no fricking clue, do you, Opie?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Holy shit, a fire storm of gun nuts has swarmed this thread, bringing with them ad hominems, strawmen and slippery slopes aplenty.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Only a fool will believe your statement above.

Do you not know the meaning of the word "enable", and can you not understand why I used it in context of my post. If you disagree, offer a rebuttal, but calling me mentally ill is nothing but a personal attack, and a surrender.

You are a demagogue.

You slander and libel the objects of your hate, as directed by your party. Nothing you claim is true, ever. The rebuttal to your "argument" is that you are flat out lying.

 

[M14 Shooter]

All folks have a right to bear arms? Do you really believe "shall not be infringed applies to everyone"?

No one argues this.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Temper temper, I have a right to express my opinions as do you. Sadly, you lack the intelligence...

Proving yourself the foolish child again?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Holy shit, a fire storm of gun nuts has swarmed this thread, bringing with them ad hominems, strawmen and slippery slopes aplenty.

Proving yourself the foolish child - again?

 

[Flash]

[


This ^^^ is really fringe thinking. I suggest you run to the library and take out a copy of Lord of the Flies, a great primer for anyone contemplating libertarianism.

Libertarianism is real freedom and personal responsibility. Most Moon Bats don't like real freedom and they sure as hell hate to be held responsible for anything.

Socialism is slavery to the state. Moon Bats love it.

 

[P@triot]

Holy shit, a fire storm of gun nuts has swarmed this thread, bringing with them ad hominems, strawmen and slippery slopes aplenty.

In other words....common sense. Something the irrational and emotional left completely lacks.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Hillary won't take our guns.

Dear Lakhota
But the DOCTORS and COURTS can. By declaring people mentally unfit.

You cannot trust the "legal lobby" who have infiltrated every branch of govt.

If they can make people pay for health INSURANCE and call it health CARE,
under "penalty by tax fines" and call it FREE CHOICE,
they can mandate anything they want. Now that the FEDS have their hands on doctors and health care regulations!

Do you even realize the abuse of power that has been going on? And more and more power keeps shifting to govt?

A friend of mine lost her house and property to legal abuse this way .Got declared incompetent WITHOUT any doctor EVER examining her, and blocked from suing in court to defend her property. ALL POLITICAL because the lawyers and judges wanted her GONE.

So this is already happening, abusing legal power to declare people incompetent and unfit for political agenda.

This is really fringe thinking. I suggest you run to the library and take out a copy of Lord of the Flies, a great primer for anyone contemplating libertarianism.

Yep, FREEMEN need a primer.


.

I don't know about all "FREEMEN"; I do now you need a therapist.

So a seller commits a crime too. Yes or no?

Of course. So you're thinking drug dealers wouldn't sell guns because that would be illegal?

And I thought you had no real argument. Nailed it ...

Have you ever sold a gun and not done a background check?

Would you sell a gun to a neighbor who was so agitated at his wife and said he wanted to buy a gun to kill her? If yes, you are a criminal; if no, you believe in gun control

Dear Wry Catcher:
The difference is NOT treating the LAW ABIDING citizens with the same 'deprivation of liberty' as the criminals who have mental or criminal issues or records.

That's the problem.

How do we screen out the truly dangerous people? Without infringing on rights of law abiding citizens?

One solution Wry Catcher is the process of spiritual healing that has been used effectively and VOLUNTARILY to diagnose the cause and also to CURE criminal illness, abuse and addiction issues.

Since this is VOLUNTARY, that's why it isn't implemented through govt, which has no jurisdiction over people's spiritual process of healing of their internal issues and sickness.

Only AFTER a crime has occurred is the govt authorized to intervene.

So that's where the conflict lies.

The solution would be for PEOPLE to VOLUNTARILY participate and apply these methods to screen out mental and criminal illness per community WITHOUT being forced by govt.

Maybe we could find a way to do that, sort of like the OPPOSITE of the ACA health care mandates that imposed the wrong way.

If people want to qualify for the health care program of their choice (either free market or single payer through govt), the condition could be added that everyone go through the spiritual healing diagnostics to cure any potential cause of illness that is internal, in order to reduce the COST so health care can be afforded for everyone. something like that.

this same process would SCREEN OUT the mentally ill and criminally dangerous people at the same time, not for punishment but for free treatment and recovery counseling. So everyone would win that way.

Which is the greatest "infringement", a license to own, possess or have in one's custody and control a gun; and, that all guns be registered with a national registry

Or,

Having a police office come to your door telling you, your child, sibling, parent or spouse was shot and killed at ABA Mall in America?

False dichotomy.

Also begging the question.

You've presented zero plans on how to keep guns from criminals, you're only targeting honest citizens.

Again, a drug lord puts drugs on a plane, flies them into the US, teenagers buy them.

That same drug lord can't throw some guns on the plane and sell them to criminals, because ....

You have no fricking clue, do you, Opie?

Don't use terms you don't understand.

• The two questions I asked, could both be considered infringements
• Background checks need to be more comprehensive, and may take longer
• Registration provides a means to return a stolen gun to the rightful owner, and
• There is no Constitutional guarantee of privacy.

The name here is Wry Catcher, in the future address me as Mr. Catcher, or Sir. Know you place.

 

[westwall]

The NRA has done more for public safety than you ever have. Tens of thousands of kids have been saved from harm because of NRA safety programs. Your propaganda attack on them merely shows you to be the fascist you truly are.

LOL, my opinion is and remains that the NRA enables criminals, the insane, addicts and all around haters easy access to guns. Your little ad hominem does not refute my claim.

There is no doubt safety programs are good and prevent accidents, now the NRA needs to expand safety by figuring out a way to restrict guns to people who have taken such courses, have passed a comprehensive background check and can be denied access to guns and ammo if they commit any future act which would have made guns inaccessible to them, i.e. licensing and registration.

Note again all you propose is restricting gun access to honest citizens. Not one of your proposals has anything to do with criminals who just buy them illegally. That's why you keep ignoring responses to your stupid ideas

Once again you biases color your judgment. Most guns are sold legally, yet criminals seem to get them too easily as do mass murderers who are (presumably) insane.

Answer this question: How do criminals and the insane get guns?

Yes, most guns are sold legally, yet most crimes are committed with guns that are obtained illegally.

You call me "biased" yet exactly as I said, you're targeting legal gun owners, not criminals

So, if most crimes committed with a gun are obtained illegally, what method(s) does the perp use to obtain the gun?

Why don't you ask your hero's in France who had no problem obtaining AK-47's which they used to gun down 150 people. Face it silly boy, gun laws affect only the law abiding. Evil people ignore your bullshit laws, and have NO problem getting what they want.

 

[westwall]

The NRA is not an "evil group." They are a group that is concerned with preserving one of our constitutionally guaranteed rights, and they have just as much a right to "lobby" the government as any other group.

If you are going to put down one for lobbying, then you must be against those who lobby for the things that YOU think are important as well. Get real.

You don't seem to understand the distinction between what is lobbying and what is coercion.

Vote as I say, or we will recruit and fund the campaign of someone who will, is coercion, and that is what the NRA does! It is extorting the vote of a member of a legislature, do my bidding or else.

Government is the only entity in the US with the power of coercion. That is a fascist tool, and look at you the fascist who wants to disarm the PEOPLE of the USA.

Yes, leftists live in hysterical fear of CEOs who can't make them do anything, then they blindly trust government, the only entity that can compel you to do things against your own interest because only they can use guns to compel you to do it

It is a particularly weird form of mental illness. That is for certain. It is astonishing that a thinking person would even attempt to label the NRA as a terrorist organization. They are for keeping guns out of the hands of criminals while fascists like wry here, is all for releasing violent criminals back out into society so that they can commit their terrible crimes. The only terrorist in this thread is wry catcher. And provably so.

Only a fool will believe your statement above.

Do you not know the meaning of the word "enable", and can you not understand why I used it in context of my post. If you disagree, offer a rebuttal, but calling me mentally ill is nothing but a personal attack, and a surrender.

Yes, I do. And you are an enabler.

 

[Wry Catcher]

[


This ^^^ is really fringe thinking. I suggest you run to the library and take out a copy of Lord of the Flies, a great primer for anyone contemplating libertarianism.

Libertarianism is real freedom and personal responsibility. Most Moon Bats don't like real freedom and they sure as hell hate to be held responsible for anything.

Socialism is slavery to the state. Moon Bats love it.

Have you read Lord of the Flies?

 

[M14 Shooter]

The name here is Wry Catcher, in the future address me as Mr. Catcher, or Sir. Know you place.

You also agreed "Foolish Child", by your own standard, applies.

 

[Wry Catcher]

LOL, my opinion is and remains that the NRA enables criminals, the insane, addicts and all around haters easy access to guns. Your little ad hominem does not refute my claim.

There is no doubt safety programs are good and prevent accidents, now the NRA needs to expand safety by figuring out a way to restrict guns to people who have taken such courses, have passed a comprehensive background check and can be denied access to guns and ammo if they commit any future act which would have made guns inaccessible to them, i.e. licensing and registration.

Note again all you propose is restricting gun access to honest citizens. Not one of your proposals has anything to do with criminals who just buy them illegally. That's why you keep ignoring responses to your stupid ideas

Once again you biases color your judgment. Most guns are sold legally, yet criminals seem to get them too easily as do mass murderers who are (presumably) insane.

Answer this question: How do criminals and the insane get guns?

Yes, most guns are sold legally, yet most crimes are committed with guns that are obtained illegally.

You call me "biased" yet exactly as I said, you're targeting legal gun owners, not criminals

So, if most crimes committed with a gun are obtained illegally, what method(s) does the perp use to obtain the gun?

Why don't you ask your hero's in France who had no problem obtaining AK-47's which they used to gun down 150 people. Face it silly boy, gun laws affect only the law abiding. Evil people ignore your bullshit laws, and have NO problem getting what they want.

Temper temper, we all want to set a good example and play well with others.