The proof about Keynes at long last

[CrusaderFrank]

I love how they pretend the spending on the war buildup in WWII was not government spending into the economy yet they always credit it with the recovery of the time

Wait. Are we finally admitting the obvious Total Failure of the New Deal? Is this the first glimmer of sanity that WWII ended the FDR Depression?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

LMAO that is hardly an admission that stimulus policy in general doesnt work. Nor is it even an admission that the actual stimulus bill failed.

Did you even look at the graphs at all? Here, ill post more for you.

During the time the stimulus money was making its way through the economy the growth in GDP was faster than in 2007. <---- FACT

So the economy is doing great but we got downgraded, unemployment is 9%, and we're setting records for debt,deficits, unemployment and poverty?

how many more graphs do i have to show you for you to get it. Growth under obama has been the same as growth under bush, even better actually. The reason unemployment is still so high is because obama had to dig his way out of the giant hole that bush dug.

Read the S&P report. We didnt get downgraded because of debt, we got downgraded because one party flirted with the idea of temporarily not paying our bond holders for absolutely no reason.

idiot.

I thought bank ATM's, the Japan Tsunami, bad luck and airport kiosks were to blame? Are we back on Bush? Can you pick a Big Lie and stick to it?

Obama got all his agenda passed: ObamaCare, Stimulus and FinReg, it's officially Obama Recession.

 

[cbirch2]

And if that theory every actually worked once in practice, Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal and Ireland would be doing great.

You have no idea what your talking about. Italy and Spain had budget surpluses at the start of the debt crisis. Greece had massive entitlement programs that were unsustainable. Thats very different than stimulus spending.

wow. facepalm

idiots here.

You're a hazard to yourself and others.

"The government needs buy large amounts of private sector debt..." What the fuck do you think F/F did?!! Are you THAT clueless? How many times must a Failed experiment fail?

We need more Stimulus like the Titanic needed to hit a second iceberg to try to close the gaping hole made by the first.

The PIIGS followed your advise and the EU is going to meltdown. Germany can't, won't and shouldn't save them, Greece debt holders need a 50% haircut or more.

...Wow.

Please explain to me how the stimulus made a "gaping hole" in our economy. Its actually been pretty beneficial. I would love to hear explanation as to how the stimulus somehow hurt us.

As for fannie and freddie, are you fucking kidding me? Fannie and freddies share of the subprime mortgage market declined as the housing bubble grew. The problem was that bush relaxed limits on leverage. Average leverage increased from 7 to 33 in a single year. Theres you bubble right there. As fannie and freddie decreased their market share, private lenders were giving out subprime loans like hot cakes.

Even if this wasnt the case its still a total apples to oranges comparison. Fannie and freddie subsizied low-incomes loans and a lot of those went bust (but the problem was more pronounced in the private sector). Im talking about clearing the debt overhang from the private sector to allow it to grow unhindered.

Those are totally different things, not that you would understand that.

 

[cbirch2]

So the economy is doing great but we got downgraded, unemployment is 9%, and we're setting records for debt,deficits, unemployment and poverty?

how many more graphs do i have to show you for you to get it. Growth under obama has been the same as growth under bush, even better actually. The reason unemployment is still so high is because obama had to dig his way out of the giant hole that bush dug.

Read the S&P report. We didnt get downgraded because of debt, we got downgraded because one party flirted with the idea of temporarily not paying our bond holders for absolutely no reason.

idiot.

I thought bank ATM's, the Japan Tsunami, bad luck and airport kiosks were to blame? Are we back on Bush? Can you pick a Big Lie and stick to it?

Obama got all his agenda passed: ObamaCare, Stimulus and FinReg, it's officially Obama Recession.

Clearly like ive said. The problem is that the contraction under bush was so large that even though growth under obama has outpaced growth under bush, it still hasnt made up its losses.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

You have no idea what your talking about. Italy and Spain had budget surpluses at the start of the debt crisis. Greece had massive entitlement programs that were unsustainable. Thats very different than stimulus spending.

wow. facepalm

idiots here.

You're a hazard to yourself and others.

"The government needs buy large amounts of private sector debt..." What the fuck do you think F/F did?!! Are you THAT clueless? How many times must a Failed experiment fail?

We need more Stimulus like the Titanic needed to hit a second iceberg to try to close the gaping hole made by the first.

The PIIGS followed your advise and the EU is going to meltdown. Germany can't, won't and shouldn't save them, Greece debt holders need a 50% haircut or more.

...Wow.

Please explain to me how the stimulus made a "gaping hole" in our economy. Its actually been pretty beneficial. I would love to hear explanation as to how the stimulus somehow hurt us.

As for fannie and freddie, are you fucking kidding me? Fannie and freddies share of the subprime mortgage market declined as the housing bubble grew. The problem was that bush relaxed limits on leverage. Average leverage increased from 7 to 33 in a single year. Theres you bubble right there. As fannie and freddie decreased their market share, private lenders were giving out subprime loans like hot cakes.

Even if this wasnt the case its still a total apples to oranges comparison. Fannie and freddie subsizied low-incomes loans and a lot of those went bust (but the problem was more pronounced in the private sector). Im talking about clearing the debt overhang from the private sector to allow it to grow unhindered.

Those are totally different things, not that you would understand that.

I stopped reading after "Stimulus has been beneficial..." you must be snorting Kool aid straight out of the can.

I'm sure your F/F section is a regurgitation of the "It wasn't us!" lie that Progressives tell about the housing market collapse.

Pop Quiz: In one sentence describe what F and F each do.

 

[cbirch2]

You're a hazard to yourself and others.

"The government needs buy large amounts of private sector debt..." What the fuck do you think F/F did?!! Are you THAT clueless? How many times must a Failed experiment fail?

We need more Stimulus like the Titanic needed to hit a second iceberg to try to close the gaping hole made by the first.

The PIIGS followed your advise and the EU is going to meltdown. Germany can't, won't and shouldn't save them, Greece debt holders need a 50% haircut or more.

...Wow.

Please explain to me how the stimulus made a "gaping hole" in our economy. Its actually been pretty beneficial. I would love to hear explanation as to how the stimulus somehow hurt us.

As for fannie and freddie, are you fucking kidding me? Fannie and freddies share of the subprime mortgage market declined as the housing bubble grew. The problem was that bush relaxed limits on leverage. Average leverage increased from 7 to 33 in a single year. Theres you bubble right there. As fannie and freddie decreased their market share, private lenders were giving out subprime loans like hot cakes.

Even if this wasnt the case its still a total apples to oranges comparison. Fannie and freddie subsizied low-incomes loans and a lot of those went bust (but the problem was more pronounced in the private sector). Im talking about clearing the debt overhang from the private sector to allow it to grow unhindered.

Those are totally different things, not that you would understand that.

I stopped reading after "Stimulus has been beneficial..." you must be snorting Kool aid straight out of the can.

I'm sure your F/F section is a regurgitation of the "It wasn't us!" lie that Progressives tell about the housing market collapse.

Pop Quiz: In one sentence describe what F and F each do.

"Pop Quiz: In one sentence describe what F and F each do."

See, you probably should have read the entire post because i do just that in the post. retard.

This is a response from someone who doesnt know anything about anything and is incapable of having an intelligent conversation.

Proof stimulus was beneficial:

17 months of private sector job growth

GDP growth rises to levels higher than before the recession

Now that ive explained how stimulus boosted employment and GDP, maybe you can find one piece of evidence as to how the stimulus has had any negative impact on the economy at all.

Waiting.....
Waiting.....

 

[Truthmatters]

I just dont understand what compells these clowns to repete these obvious lies?


The stim demonstrateably worked.

And here they are denying facts because Fox news tells them up is down

 

[cbirch2]

Conservatives just plug their ears and go "nananana i cant hear you" every time someone states facts that they dont like.

Pop Quiz: If fannie and freddies share of the subprime mortgage market was falling the entire time the bubble was growing, how could they have been the cause of the bubble?

 

[cbirch2]

I just dont understand what compells these clowns to repete these obvious lies?


The stim demonstrateably worked.

And here they are denying facts because Fox news tells them up is down

He just wont acknowledge anything i say, thats how he plans to win the argument. Thats how all conservatives plan to win the argument.

I say average bank leverage quadrupled when bush deregulated, the very definition of a bubble, and he just acts like ive never said it. Its amazing.

 

[editec]

Look boys I appluade your efforts to educate these guys, but one of two things is happening.

1. Either they're incapable of understanding the points you make; or

2. They don't want to understand the points you make.

Now based on the way they attack the messenger bringing them REAL DATA?

One has to question their motives for continuously missing (or mistating and then complainting about) the point.

I guess what I am saying here is your expectations that the scales will fall from their eyes is naive.

Only intellectually honest people can admit that they were wrong or don't understand.

You're not playing with peiople for whom intellectual honesty is important.

You're mostly discussing issues with partisans who think that insulting people who disagree with the POV is the whole point of coming here.

 

[cbirch2]

Look boys I appluade your efforts to educate these guys, but one of two things is happening.

1. Either they're incapable of understanding the points you make; or

2. They don't want to understand the points you make.

Now based on the way they attack the messenger bringing them REAL DATA?

One has to question their motives for continuously missing (or mistating and then complainting about) the point.

I guess what I am saying here is your expectations that the scales will fall from their eyes is naive.

Only intellectually honest people can admit that they were wrong or don't understand.

You're not playing with peiople for whom intellectual honesty is important.

You're mostly discussing issues with partisans who think that insulting people who disagree with the POV is the whole point of coming here.

It just gets a little frustrating when people think that somehow cutting spending when we dont need to is going to fix the problem.

It gets even more frustrating when these plans come from people runnning for president.

 

[editec]

Look boys I appluade your efforts to educate these guys, but one of two things is happening.

1. Either they're incapable of understanding the points you make; or

2. They don't want to understand the points you make.

Now based on the way they attack the messenger bringing them REAL DATA?

One has to question their motives for continuously missing (or mistating and then complainting about) the point.

I guess what I am saying here is your expectations that the scales will fall from their eyes is naive.

Only intellectually honest people can admit that they were wrong or don't understand.

You're not playing with peiople for whom intellectual honesty is important.

You're mostly discussing issues with partisans who think that insulting people who disagree with the POV is the whole point of coming here.

It just gets a little frustrating when people think that somehow cutting spending when we dont need to is going to fix the problem.

It gets even more frustrating when these plans come from people runnning for president.

Yes it does, of course.

But that's only because you hope that you're dealing with people for whom the point of debate is to achieve a greater understanding.

That is NOT who most people really are.

Most people think that the point of debate is to WIN the debate.

That is why, when these people encounter an inconvenient truth or someone who consistently brings forth facts they don't like?

They attack the messenger.

Think of the way they respond as a kind of mental illness, because that is what it really is.

Your frustration is your problem, not theirs.

When you get frustrated because they don't get it, or REFUSE to get it?

They win.

Making you frustrated is really all they're here to do, anyway.

If they were truly interested in the issues at hand they'd have something REAL to offer the discussion.

They consistently DO NOT.

Teaching PIGs to sing, and all that, amigo, know what I mean?

 

[cbirch2]

Look boys I appluade your efforts to educate these guys, but one of two things is happening.

1. Either they're incapable of understanding the points you make; or

2. They don't want to understand the points you make.

Now based on the way they attack the messenger bringing them REAL DATA?

One has to question their motives for continuously missing (or mistating and then complainting about) the point.

I guess what I am saying here is your expectations that the scales will fall from their eyes is naive.

Only intellectually honest people can admit that they were wrong or don't understand.

You're not playing with peiople for whom intellectual honesty is important.

You're mostly discussing issues with partisans who think that insulting people who disagree with the POV is the whole point of coming here.

It just gets a little frustrating when people think that somehow cutting spending when we dont need to is going to fix the problem.

It gets even more frustrating when these plans come from people runnning for president.

Yes it does, of course.

But that's only because you hope that you're dealing with people for whom the point of debate is to achieve a greater understanding.

That is NOT who most people really are.

Most people think that the point of debate is to WIN the debate.

That is why, when these people encounter an inconvenient truth or someone who consistently brings forth facts they don't like?

They attack the messenger.

Think of the way they respond as a kind of mental illness, because that is what it really is.

Your frustration is your problem, not theirs.

When you get frustrated because they don't get it, or REFUSE to get it?

They win.

Making you frustrated is really all they're here to do, anyway.

If they were truly interested in the issues at hand they'd have something REAL to offer the discussion.

They consistently DO NOT.

Teaching PIGs to sing, and all that, amigo, know what I mean?

BAM! Truth right there.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

...Wow.

Please explain to me how the stimulus made a "gaping hole" in our economy. Its actually been pretty beneficial. I would love to hear explanation as to how the stimulus somehow hurt us.

As for fannie and freddie, are you fucking kidding me? Fannie and freddies share of the subprime mortgage market declined as the housing bubble grew. The problem was that bush relaxed limits on leverage. Average leverage increased from 7 to 33 in a single year. Theres you bubble right there. As fannie and freddie decreased their market share, private lenders were giving out subprime loans like hot cakes.

Even if this wasnt the case its still a total apples to oranges comparison. Fannie and freddie subsizied low-incomes loans and a lot of those went bust (but the problem was more pronounced in the private sector). Im talking about clearing the debt overhang from the private sector to allow it to grow unhindered.

Those are totally different things, not that you would understand that.

I stopped reading after "Stimulus has been beneficial..." you must be snorting Kool aid straight out of the can.

I'm sure your F/F section is a regurgitation of the "It wasn't us!" lie that Progressives tell about the housing market collapse.

Pop Quiz: In one sentence describe what F and F each do.

"Pop Quiz: In one sentence describe what F and F each do."

See, you probably should have read the entire post because i do just that in the post. retard.

This is a response from someone who doesnt know anything about anything and is incapable of having an intelligent conversation.

Proof stimulus was beneficial:

17 months of private sector job growth

GDP growth rises to levels higher than before the recession

Now that ive explained how stimulus boosted employment and GDP, maybe you can find one piece of evidence as to how the stimulus has had any negative impact on the economy at all.

Waiting.....
Waiting.....

Will posting the charts over and over get unemployment under 9% or get our credit rating back?

You said what F/F each do in that post? I must have missed it. Can you just tell me?

 

[Truthmatters]

I think its people like them that are raising the kids who bully others to suicide.

They spit on facts and make up whatever lies they want to without one shread of concern about truth.


They dont care about truth.

its only about winning power.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I just dont understand what compells these clowns to repete these obvious lies?

The stim demonstrateably worked.

And here they are denying facts because Fox news tells them up is down

Did you just realize you admitted that WWII and not the New Deal ended the FDR Depression?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Conservatives just plug their ears and go "nananana i cant hear you" every time someone states facts that they dont like.

Pop Quiz: If fannie and freddies share of the subprime mortgage market was falling the entire time the bubble was growing, how could they have been the cause of the bubble?

One sentence, just one sentence, describe what F/F each do

 

[cbirch2]

I stopped reading after "Stimulus has been beneficial..." you must be snorting Kool aid straight out of the can.

I'm sure your F/F section is a regurgitation of the "It wasn't us!" lie that Progressives tell about the housing market collapse.

Pop Quiz: In one sentence describe what F and F each do.

"Pop Quiz: In one sentence describe what F and F each do."

See, you probably should have read the entire post because i do just that in the post. retard.

This is a response from someone who doesnt know anything about anything and is incapable of having an intelligent conversation.

Proof stimulus was beneficial:

17 months of private sector job growth

GDP growth rises to levels higher than before the recession

Now that ive explained how stimulus boosted employment and GDP, maybe you can find one piece of evidence as to how the stimulus has had any negative impact on the economy at all.

Waiting.....
Waiting.....

Will posting the charts over and over get unemployment under 9% or get our credit rating back?

You said what F/F each do in that post? I must have missed it. Can you just tell me?

Im just wondering how many times i have to post the same very obvious graphs before you admit that the stimulus had a beneficial effect on employment and GDP.

Our credit rating was downgraded because one party flirted with temporarily not paying our bond holders for no reason. In fact in the S&P report they even call for the repeal of the bush tax cuts.

As for fannie and freddie, im not going to tell you because i dont think you know what fannie and freddie do. I've proved i know, prove you know.

But in case you cant, know a few things. Fannie mae has been in existence since the great depression. The legislation that governs the two banks has been in its current form since the early 90's. Even if they had a major role to play in the crash, and they were really proprietary problems, it still just demonstrates my main point about the economic collapse. Mainly that republican deregulation and republican economic policies from 2003 - 2007 were the main cause of the recession.

 

[cbirch2]

Conservatives just plug their ears and go "nananana i cant hear you" every time someone states facts that they dont like.

Pop Quiz: If fannie and freddies share of the subprime mortgage market was falling the entire time the bubble was growing, how could they have been the cause of the bubble?

One sentence, just one sentence, describe what F/F each do

I already answered that you fool!!!

Fannie and freddie are government sponsered enterprises that purchase mortages or mortgage backed securities from lenders to free up resource and allow for more lending.

UGH!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Look boys I appluade your efforts to educate these guys, but one of two things is happening.

1. Either they're incapable of understanding the points you make; or

2. They don't want to understand the points you make.

Now based on the way they attack the messenger bringing them REAL DATA?

One has to question their motives for continuously missing (or mistating and then complainting about) the point.

I guess what I am saying here is your expectations that the scales will fall from their eyes is naive.

Only intellectually honest people can admit that they were wrong or don't understand.

You're not playing with peiople for whom intellectual honesty is important.

You're mostly discussing issues with partisans who think that insulting people who disagree with the POV is the whole point of coming here.

So, in your view, the Obama economy is doing great?