Zone1 The Problem with Tribalism

[buttercup]

Something I notice all the time in online discussions, especially when it comes to controversial topics, is extremely tribalistic thinking.

What do I mean by that? For the sake of clarity, I’ll give a definition (two, actually) of the word tribalism. The dictionary defines tribalism as: “A strong feeling of identity with and loyalty to one's tribe or group.” But this definition is not quite complete for the type of tribalism I have in mind. Why, because there’s nothing wrong with being loyal to one’s group. The problems arise when that loyalty becomes more important than anything else.

So the modern tribalism I’m talking about, especially when it comes to topics like politics, religion, race, current events, etc is basically excessive group bias.

I think this way of thinking is a problem that is at the root of so many other serious problems these days.

Here are some examples of what overly tribalistic thinking can and often does lead to. The most important one is the last one, and I’ll try to explain why, after this list.

1. It causes willful blindness to shortcomings or wrongdoing by one’s tribe, or tribe leader.
2. It causes one to be closed off to ideas or people outside of one’s tribe.
3. It often leads to a very antagonistic “us vs them” mentality.
4. It can lead to nepotism, cronyism, corruption, persecution, violence, or worse - total disregard for lives outside one’s tribe.
5. It gives an advantage to the corrupt “Powers that be” who I believe promote tribalism the purpose of Divide and Conquer.
6. It can, and often is, given more importance than truth. This is the biggest problem with tribalism, and it basically sums up all the other problems on this list.

Again, the biggest problem is when tribalism is put above truth. I feel like this should go without saying, but apparently it needs to be said. Truth should always be paramount. Why? Because truth (when I say truth, I’m talking about objective truth) is not dependent on what you or I or anyone else believes. It just is what it is. And if truth is not valued above all else, we end up being deceived, or living a lie, and that leads to all sorts of serious problems. Including the worst problem of all, losing our soul.

To me it’s sad to see people put tribalism above all else, because not only is it bad for others, but they’re shooting themselves in the foot. It hinders people from learning, growing, and most importantly, from seeking and finding actual truth.

From a spiritual standpoint, I think extreme tribalism is a form of idolatry. And idolatry, from a Judeo-Christian perspective, is a sin. And not just any sin, it’s in the top 10 “no-nos.” (The 10 commandments)

What are your thoughts on this? I can’t be the only one who feels this way about it. Lastly, I don’t want to make anyone feel bad or ruffle a bunch of feathers here. This is just something that has been pressing on me, so I felt a thread on it was in order.

PS: I wasn’t sure what section to put this in. If it would be better for another section, feel free to move it, mods.

 

[Meriweather]

What do I mean by that? For the sake of clarity, I’ll give a definition (two, actually) of the word tribalism. The dictionary defines tribalism as: “A strong feeling of identity with and loyalty to one's tribe or group.” But this definition is not quite complete for the type of tribalism I have in mind. Why, because there’s nothing wrong with being loyal to one’s group. The problems arise when that loyalty becomes more important than anything else.

Personally, like "racism" I see "tribalism" as another label to use to belittle people. Family is the most basic tribe there is, and where do we see the most disagreements both arising and being settled? Family.

There is a political or societal force surrounding us that we must beware of. The current one are those who keep coming up with terms meant to belittle people with the goal to shut us up. Those of us who frown on the Puritans use of stocks and pillory should frown on these modern forms of stock and pillory. The Salem Witch Trials have nothing on us today. I know because I had family hurt by the Salem Witch Trials--and also a couple who found themselves in stocks or pillory.

 

[buttercup]

Personally, like "racism" I see "tribalism" as another label to use to belittle people. Family is the most basic tribe there is, and where do we see the most disagreements both arising and beingI; settled? Family.

There is a political or societal force surrounding us that we must beware of. The current one are those who keep coming up with terms meant to belittle people with the goal to shut us up. Those of us who frown on the Puritans use of stocks and pillory should frown on these modern forms of stock and pillory. The Salem Witch Trials have nothing on us today. I know because I had family hurt by the Salem Witch Trials--and also a couple who found themselves in stocks or pillory.

I'm sorry but none of that made sense to me. In fact, you seem to be flipping the point completely upside-down.

First of all, the word itself is not what's important. What's important is the meaning behind it, which as I said, is basically excessive group bias. Pointing out tribalism is definitely not about silencing discussion, it's the exact opposite. Tribalistic thinking is what hinders true discussion, because when people place more importance on their particular tribe than on truth, they often don't want to hear anything else, they don't want to go any further, it is a way of staying stuck in a particular mindset, like a child who covers his ears and goes "la la la la la I'm not listening!" So again, unless I misunderstood you, you seem to have this completely upside-down.

 

[MarathonMike]

I agree basically with the OP. I think an important question to ask is "What created this intense environment of tribalism in America?" I don't recall the deep divisions between the people so pronounced until Obama took office. IMO he ushered in a new set of tactics designed to distract, divert, enrage and divide the people. And I'm not just blaming him, he was just the tip of a very large and powerful spear.

This election has taken tribalism to it's apex. I mean seriously we have tens of millions of Americans blindly supporting a radical Leftist who is being marketed as a Commander-In-Chief. And those same Americans blindly HATE Donald Trump so much they giggle when they see not one but two assassination attempts. That is sick. But sadly that is where we are now.

 

[Meriweather]

I'm sorry but none of that made sense to me. In fact, you seem to be flipping the point completely upside-down.

I'm merely pointing out there is dissension within all tribes. "Tribalism" is merely the latest coined word designed to shut down and be dismissive of the other point of view in discussion or debate.

 

[buttercup]

I agree basically with the OP. I think an important question to ask is "What created this intense environment of tribalism in America?" I don't recall the deep divisions between the people so pronounced until Obama took office. IMO he ushered in a new set of tactics designed to distract, divert, enrage and divide the people. And I'm not just blaming him, he was just the tip of a very large and powerful spear.

This election has taken tribalism to it's apex. I mean seriously we have tens of millions of Americans blindly supporting a radical Leftist who is being marketed as a Commander-In-Chief. And those same Americans blindly HATE Donald Trump so much they giggle when they see not one but two assassination attempts. That is sick. But sadly that is where we are now.

I was going to say that in the OP, I wasn't sure if it was just me, but the problem seems to have gotten worse in recent years. Thanks for your post.

 

[buttercup]

I'm merely pointing out there is dissension within all tribes. "Tribalism" is merely the latest coined word designed to shut down and be dismissive of the other point of view in discussion or debate.

Well of course there is dissension within tribes. I wasn't talking about that, that's not at all what this is about. And again, the word itself is not what's important, but the reality behind it. Unless you're denying that excessive group bias is a problem? As for the last thing you said, again, you have completely backwards. Extremely tribalistic thinking is what hinders and shuts down genuine discussion.

 

[Meriweather]

Well of course there is dissension within tribes. I wasn't talking about that, that's not at all what this is about. And again, the word itself is not what's important, but the reality behind it. Unless you're denying that excessive group bias is a problem?

I am flat out saying that "racism" has lost its punch being such an overused accusation. So trot out another word that can be used as an accusation to dismiss unwanted points of views--as well as insist we are hopelessly divided and nothing can be done about reaching an agreement or compromise.

I am the person who doesn't say anything during a discussion....until, someone calls someone a racist (or now accuses them of tribalism). That's when I step forward and ask, "Why would you say that?" As many times as this as happen there hasn't been even once that someone can explain why they used the word. We have better things to discuss than racism and tribalism. Both are nothing more than distractions.

 

[task0778]

From a spiritual standpoint, I think extreme tribalism is a form of idolatry. And idolatry, from a Judeo-Christian perspective, is a sin. And not just any sin, it’s in the top 10 “no-nos.” (The 10 commandments)

First, I think that idolatry is overstating the case, not many people actually worship Trump or Biden/Obama or whoever else. That said, there are so many people in this country that do not practice critical thinking, maybe too concerned with their own problems to think much about elections and politics. And frankly I think there are too many people that don't do much of any kind of thinking, either they don't know how or are too ignorant or mentally lazy. So, either they don't vote at all or they vote the way somebody tells them to or the way they've always voted.

 

[buttercup]

I am flat out saying that "racism" has lost its punch being such an overused accusation. So trot out another word that can be used as an accusation to dismiss unwanted points of views--as well as insist we are hopelessly divided and nothing can be done about reaching an agreement or compromise.

I am the person who doesn't say anything during a discussion....until, someone calls someone a racist (or now accuses them of tribalism). That's when I step forward and ask, "Why would you say that?" As many times as this as happen there hasn't been even once that someone can explain why they used the word. We have better things to discuss than racism and tribalism. Both are nothing more than distractions.

When I have to repeat something more than twice, it makes me not want to go any further because trying to talk to someone who repeatedly ignores what is being said is pointless. But I'll say it one more time. This is NOT at all about shutting down discussion, if anything it's the exact opposite. I can't speak for others, but as far as I'm concerned, I want MORE genuine discussion, not less! But you can't have genuine, fruitful discussion when group loyalty is placed above all else, including facts and truth. Now I've already repeated myself 3 times here, so if you're going to just repeat your same upside-down point, then please don't bother.

 

[buttercup]

First, I think that idolatry is overstating the case, not many people actually worship Trump or Biden/Obama or whoever else. That said, there are so many people in this country that do not practice critical thinking, maybe too concerned with their own problems to think much about elections and politics. And frankly I think there are too many people that don't do much of any kind of thinking, either they don't know how or are too ignorant or mentally lazy. So, either they don't vote at all or they vote the way somebody tells them to or the way they've always voted.

Thanks for your thoughts. Btw, when I mentioned idolatry, I wasn't even thinking about people who worship certain politicians...I was thinking about the overall mindset of placing one's group above all else. I definitely agree with what you said about critical thinking and mental laziness.

 

[1srelluc]

Something I notice all the time in online discussions, especially when it comes to controversial topics, is extremely tribalistic thinking.

What do I mean by that? For the sake of clarity, I’ll give a definition (two, actually) of the word tribalism. The dictionary defines tribalism as: “A strong feeling of identity with and loyalty to one's tribe or group.” But this definition is not quite complete for the type of tribalism I have in mind. Why, because there’s nothing wrong with being loyal to one’s group. The problems arise when that loyalty becomes more important than anything else.

So the modern tribalism I’m talking about, especially when it comes to topics like politics, religion, race, current events, etc is basically excessive group bias.

I think this way of thinking is a problem that is at the root of so many other serious problems these days.

Here are some examples of what overly tribalistic thinking can and often does lead to. The most important one is the last one, and I’ll try to explain why, after this list.

1. It causes willful blindness to shortcomings or wrongdoing by one’s tribe, or tribe leader.
2. It causes one to be closed off to ideas or people outside of one’s tribe.
3. It often leads to a very antagonistic “us vs them” mentality.
4. It can lead to nepotism, cronyism, corruption, persecution, violence, or worse - total disregard for lives outside one’s tribe.
5. It gives an advantage to the corrupt “Powers that be” who I believe promote tribalism the purpose of Divide and Conquer.
6. It can, and often is, given more importance than truth. This is the biggest problem with tribalism, and it basically sums up all the other problems on this list.

Again, the biggest problem is when tribalism is put above truth. I feel like this should go without saying, but apparently it needs to be said. Truth should always be paramount. Why? Because truth (when I say truth, I’m talking about objective truth) is not dependent on what you or I or anyone else believes. It just is what it is. And if truth is not valued above all else, we end up being deceived, or living a lie, and that leads to all sorts of serious problems. Including the worst problem of all, losing our soul.

To me it’s sad to see people put tribalism above all else, because not only is it bad for others, but they’re shooting themselves in the foot. It hinders people from learning, growing, and most importantly, from seeking and finding actual truth.

From a spiritual standpoint, I think extreme tribalism is a form of idolatry. And idolatry, from a Judeo-Christian perspective, is a sin. And not just any sin, it’s in the top 10 “no-nos.” (The 10 commandments)

What are your thoughts on this? I can’t be the only one who feels this way about it. Lastly, I don’t want to make anyone feel bad or ruffle a bunch of feathers here. This is just something that has been pressing on me, so I felt a thread on it was in order.

PS: I wasn’t sure what section to put this in. If it would be better for another section, feel free to move it, mods.

I don't know but it sounds to me like you have way too much time on your hands.

 

[buttercup]

I don't know but it sounds to me like you have way too much time on your hands.

Well, I admit that today I had a very open schedule, so that's why I took the time to put these thoughts into words. But if what you meant was you don't think it's a big problem, then ok. Thanks for chiming in.

 

[task0778]

Things have gotten too far out of control. The biases have probably always been there but we used to have more restraint and maybe a bit more tolerance. Some of us anyway, but nowadays it's almost open warfare with frequent shootings and looting stores. People are being attacked and beaten for no reason except they're in another group (tribalism). I can't see it getting any better until some catastrophic event happens, like a major terrorist attack, depression, or pandemic.

 

[1srelluc]

Well, I admit that today I had a very open schedule, so that's why I took the time to put these thoughts into words. But if what you meant was you don't think it's a big problem, then ok. Thanks for chiming in.

Nope, I can't say that one person's view of "tribalism" concerns me nary a bit.

LOL....My only bitch today was not getting in the parts needed to complete a Winchester Model 92.

 

[MarathonMike]

I was going to say that in the OP, I wasn't sure if it was just me, but the problem seems to have gotten worse in recent years. Thanks for your post.

And just to follow up, having an independent watchdog Free Press fall under the control of the Democratic Party provides the mechanism to feed the tribalism 24/7 which is exactly what is happening every day.

 

[BreezeWood]

And just to follow up, having an independent watchdog Free Press fall under the control of the Democratic Party provides the mechanism to feed the tribalism 24/7 which is exactly what is happening every day.

the 1st century events are the repudiation of heredity idolatry claimed by the liar moses, judaism ... they were willing to die for in their belief and knowledge - all in the heavens are equal.

 

[buttercup]

And just to follow up, having an independent watchdog Free Press fall under the control of the Democratic Party provides the mechanism to feed the tribalism 24/7 which is exactly what is happening every day.

I agree that the controlled press feeds the tribalism 24/7. But as for who controls it, I kind of disagree. Not to get off topic but I don't think it's the Democratic party... I think globalists control the MSM. But their worldview is more in line with modern day "liberals" (I hate to use that word because it's been hijacked) than conservatives, so....it does brainwash people in that direction.

 

[MarathonMike]

I agree that the controlled press feeds the tribalism 24/7. But as for who controls it, I kind of disagree. Not to get off topic but I don't think it's the Democratic party... I think globalists control the MSM. But their worldview is more in line with modern day "liberals" (I hate to use that word because it's been hijacked) than conservatives, so....it does brainwash people in that direction.

I don't disagree with you but there is very little daylight between 'globalists' and today's Democratic Party.

 

[surada]

I'm merely pointing out there is dissension within all tribes. "Tribalism" is merely the latest coined word designed to shut down and be dismissive of the other point of view in discussion or debate.

It's just Nationalism like Zionism or Nazism...