The "Palestinians" Gave Up Sovereign Claims Long Ago

[YKohen]

"A state" is an Israeli propaganda term.

A state is something real and tangible. The would-have-been "Palestinians" had opportunities to establish one time and again; even before the establishment of the state of Israel.

They were greedy and violent, so they chose not to.

Oh well. That's their choice.

The would-have-been "Palestinians" had opportunities to establish one time and again...

And who says they have not?

They don't exist, so they have not.

 

[P F Tinmore]

that's nice Tinnie----jews have lived in "palestine" and in other parts of the middle east------at many times being ---on the basis of the oppression and fascist laws of both the "holy' roman empire ------and the fascist caliphate----prevented from living in their homeland "palestine' aka Israel/Judea OPENLY-----ie ----lots lived there secretly ----uhm how do you think SAFED up there in the hills became a "holy city" for jews (hint its a place in the hills people hid from the likes of you and your fascist friends)

thus-----even if not physcially present at times----and at times --hidden----Only a filthy stinking nazi pigs could possible claim ----jews are not NORMAL RESIDENTS

The native Jews are recognized as citizens of Palestine.

 

[rosends]

that's nice Tinnie----jews have lived in "palestine" and in other parts of the middle east------at many times being ---on the basis of the oppression and fascist laws of both the "holy' roman empire ------and the fascist caliphate----prevented from living in their homeland "palestine' aka Israel/Judea OPENLY-----ie ----lots lived there secretly ----uhm how do you think SAFED up there in the hills became a "holy city" for jews (hint its a place in the hills people hid from the likes of you and your fascist friends)

thus-----even if not physcially present at times----and at times --hidden----Only a filthy stinking nazi pigs could possible claim ----jews are not NORMAL RESIDENTS

The native Jews are recognized as citizens of Palestine.

Wasn't the word "Palestine" simply a convenient label for a general geographical region, like "New England" or "North America"? There was no formal country called "Palestine" as it was simply a mandated region controlled by the British government. And before the Young Turks rebellion, I don't recall there being an Arab nationalist movement to craft an identity of a distinct Arab nation there. The resident Jews, Arabs and Christians were all residents of the Palestine mandate (note the "Palestine Post" which turned into the Jerusalem Post). Passport holders in the Mandate held British documents. Admittedly, they were not formally British citizens but the Palestinian nationality was not one of citizenship AFAIK JSTOR: Palestine Nationality and the Mandate for a preview of the article, but if you have the whole thing I'd love to read the rest. The author was killed by local Arabs in 1929.

 

[irosie91]

not quite----the PALESTINIAN NATIONALITY appeared on the papers of JEWS ONLY-----my sweet little hubbie came to palestine at age one-----pre 1948 palestine-----being a jew his legal british issued papers were stamped "PALESTINIAN" had he been a muslim arriving from the same godforsaken shariah cesspit-----his papers would have been stamped "ARAB" some of the papers of arabs in palestine showed SYRIAN.

I will help you understand further-----islamo nazi propaganda goes to such great lengths to CLAIM that "PALESTINIAN" referred to arab muslims living in the "MANDATE" that they site the names of JEWISH ORGANIZATIONS that included the word PALESTINE or PALESTINIAN-----such as the PALESTINE POST

 

[rosends]

not quite----the PALESTINIAN NATIONALITY appeared on the papers of JEWS ONLY-----my sweet little hubbie came to palestine at age one-----pre 1948 palestine-----being a jew his legal british issued papers were stamped "PALESTINIAN" had he been a muslim arriving...his papers would have been stamped "ARAB" some of the papers of arabs in palestine showed SYRIAN.

I did not realize this. If this is indeed so, then the only marker of nationality which can be called "Palestinian" would specifically NOT apply to the indigenous Arab population, making the claim to an historical Palestine more spurious.

 

[irosie91]

not quite----the PALESTINIAN NATIONALITY appeared on the papers of JEWS ONLY-----my sweet little hubbie came to palestine at age one-----pre 1948 palestine-----being a jew his legal british issued papers were stamped "PALESTINIAN" had he been a muslim arriving...his papers would have been stamped "ARAB" some of the papers of arabs in palestine showed SYRIAN.

I did not realize this. If this is indeed so, then the only marker of nationality which can be called "Palestinian" would specifically NOT apply to the indigenous Arab population, making the claim to an historical Palestine more spurious.

An interesting factoid is that a muslim living in palestine -----if referred to as "PALESTINIAN" would be INDIGNANT -----back then The status gained a glow when it involved the promise of "YOU WILL OWN ISRAEL AND ALL IN IT" and "MEANWHILE YOU GET FREE UN RICE AND OIL" "JUST MAKE SURE YOU STAY A REFUGEE"

 

[irosie91]

right tinnie---it was clearly illegal for your friends and those of your ilk and the people you support-----to attack the city of Hebron in 1929 and slit the throats of infants no matter how much you enjoyed that event It was clearly illegal for those of your ilk to attack jews in jerusalem and murder them for the "god" you worship and to excite the sluts of your community. Thus -----the land in which a community was being ILLEGALLY attackes was partitioned so that the sluts pimps and whores you love would no longer have the opportunity of attacking them. Sudan was partitioned for the same reason IN fact ---theoretically----so was India

 

[P F Tinmore]

that's nice Tinnie----jews have lived in "palestine" and in other parts of the middle east------at many times being ---on the basis of the oppression and fascist laws of both the "holy' roman empire ------and the fascist caliphate----prevented from living in their homeland "palestine' aka Israel/Judea OPENLY-----ie ----lots lived there secretly ----uhm how do you think SAFED up there in the hills became a "holy city" for jews (hint its a place in the hills people hid from the likes of you and your fascist friends)

thus-----even if not physcially present at times----and at times --hidden----Only a filthy stinking nazi pigs could possible claim ----jews are not NORMAL RESIDENTS

The native Jews are recognized as citizens of Palestine.

Wasn't the word "Palestine" simply a convenient label for a general geographical region, like "New England" or "North America"? There was no formal country called "Palestine" as it was simply a mandated region controlled by the British government. And before the Young Turks rebellion, I don't recall there being an Arab nationalist movement to craft an identity of a distinct Arab nation there. The resident Jews, Arabs and Christians were all residents of the Palestine mandate (note the "Palestine Post" which turned into the Jerusalem Post). Passport holders in the Mandate held British documents. Admittedly, they were not formally British citizens but the Palestinian nationality was not one of citizenship AFAIK JSTOR: Palestine Nationality and the Mandate for a preview of the article, but if you have the whole thing I'd love to read the rest. The author was killed by local Arabs in 1929.

The function of the mandate was to assist Palestine. Palestine had to be there first. Palestine continued to exist after the end of the mandate.

Britain never owned Palestine. It was merely a temporary appointed administrator.

 

[irosie91]

The native Jews are recognized as citizens of Palestine.


the above statement is farted forth by islamo nazi pigs based on the concept that the MUSLIM OVERLORDS were willing to allow jews who had been in palestine ----BEFORE 1920 (or something like that) --- ie a remnant that managed to survive the rape pillage expulsons that tinnie so enjoys ------
they especially enjoyes the concept of confiscating little orphaned girls for sex slave status------in the homeland of the jews which the dogs of arabia had invaded centuries ago The system which tinnie really supports is the isolation of jews in shariah shit holes where they were also eligible to be raped ------of course not CRIMINALLY----just LEGALLY in accordance with islamic law--------as the lucky Southern Sudanese women have been raped over the past several decades

 

[Hossfly]

that's nice Tinnie----jews have lived in "palestine" and in other parts of the middle east------at many times being ---on the basis of the oppression and fascist laws of both the "holy' roman empire ------and the fascist caliphate----prevented from living in their homeland "palestine' aka Israel/Judea OPENLY-----ie ----lots lived there secretly ----uhm how do you think SAFED up there in the hills became a "holy city" for jews (hint its a place in the hills people hid from the likes of you and your fascist friends)

thus-----even if not physcially present at times----and at times --hidden----Only a filthy stinking nazi pigs could possible claim ----jews are not NORMAL RESIDENTS

The native Jews are recognized as citizens of Palestine.

Tinny is such a wonderful propagandist for the Arabs. Sorry, Tinny, but there is a country of Israel of which the Jews are citizens. Do you by chance have a son-in-law who is the Hamas representative in the U.S. abd who feeds you all this nonsense that there is no country of Israel? For someone who is supposedly an American citizen, you seen to know an awful lot about Hamas.

 

[rosends]

The native Jews are recognized as citizens of Palestine.

Wasn't the word "Palestine" simply a convenient label for a general geographical region, like "New England" or "North America"? There was no formal country called "Palestine" as it was simply a mandated region controlled by the British government. And before the Young Turks rebellion, I don't recall there being an Arab nationalist movement to craft an identity of a distinct Arab nation there. The resident Jews, Arabs and Christians were all residents of the Palestine mandate (note the "Palestine Post" which turned into the Jerusalem Post). Passport holders in the Mandate held British documents. Admittedly, they were not formally British citizens but the Palestinian nationality was not one of citizenship AFAIK JSTOR: Palestine Nationality and the Mandate for a preview of the article, but if you have the whole thing I'd love to read the rest. The author was killed by local Arabs in 1929.

The function of the mandate was to assist Palestine. Palestine had to be there first. Palestine continued to exist after the end of the mandate.

Britain never owned Palestine. It was merely a temporary appointed administrator.

the British, after Allenby's WW1 defeat of the controlling Turks, I believe, administered it after the defeat of the Ottomans who had controlled the area (despite the interval when Napoleon conquered it and some other local shifts) since the early 16th century when they captured it from the Mamluks IIRC. The Mamluks had kicked out the Europeans who controlled it before then. Was any of these groups more than an administrator assisting "Palestine"? When during any of this was there an independent and sovereign nation of Palestine which stood independent? Did the Sanjaks constitute an occupying administration? Were the earlier Mongols simply another occupying force? How far back are we going to go to find the actual Palestine you refer to?

 

[irosie91]

Tinnie has decided that a country cannot exist unless its borders are UNDISPUTED---FIXED---and ETERNAL for NATION OF
OWNERSHIP----his criteria are a bit different He has determined
that invaders have FULL RIGHTS TO OWNERSHIP----if they kill
enough people-----bar the nation that actually developed in that
land, destroy its holy sites and landmarks and institutions and
change their name to reflect an insinuation that they have lived on the
land for thousands of years-------and MOST OF ALL THEY MUST NOT
BE JEWS

 

[YKohen]

that's nice Tinnie----jews have lived in "palestine" and in other parts of the middle east------at many times being ---on the basis of the oppression and fascist laws of both the "holy' roman empire ------and the fascist caliphate----prevented from living in their homeland "palestine' aka Israel/Judea OPENLY-----ie ----lots lived there secretly ----uhm how do you think SAFED up there in the hills became a "holy city" for jews (hint its a place in the hills people hid from the likes of you and your fascist friends)

thus-----even if not physcially present at times----and at times --hidden----Only a filthy stinking nazi pigs could possible claim ----jews are not NORMAL RESIDENTS

The native Jews are recognized as citizens of Palestine.

There are no "citizens of Palestine".

There isno "Palestine".

They chose war INSTEAD.

Oh well. That's their choice.

I wonder what they would have done with Yasser Arafat, who was an Egyptian...

 

[YKohen]

Self-determination - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Charter of the United Nations: Chapter I: Purposes and Principles

So sorry, but YOU made an assertion:

"Forcing the partition on the Palestinians would have violated international law and the UN charter."
​

Please cite the UN Charter chapter and article that it would have violated, as per your assertion.

Thank you.

.....Cohen, by all indication you are either too stupid or fanatical to appreciate the content of the UN Charter...even by recognizing Israel---under specific western pressure---the organization violated its own charter that proposes to defend the residence rights of native populations....HELLLLLLLOOOOOOOO!!!! ANYONE HOME????

Please cite the UN Charter chapter and article that it would have violated, as per your assertion.

Thank you.

 

[editec]

De facto, by rejecting UN 181 in 1948- the resolution that was going to establish two states here, they gave up claims to a state.

And de jure, in 1964 with their PLO Charter, they gave up all sovereign claims:

"THE PALESTINIAN NATIONAL CHARTER" (Al-Mithaq Al-Kawmee Al-Philisteeni), Adopted in 1964 by the 1st Palestinian Conference

Article 24: This Organization does not exercise any territorial sovereignty over the West Bank in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, on the Gaza Strip or in the Himmah Area.

Permanent Observer Mission of Palestine to the United Nations - Palestine National Charter of 1964

Anything unclear?

Yes.

It is unclear to me why anybody thinks nations or people are really subject to something as abstract as "the law".

The Palestinians lost hope of establishing a sovereign nation when the land was taken over by a superior force.

That's the nature of geopolitics.


International law isn't something handed down from heaven or something based on moral or legally correct behaviors. International law is the will of one nation or group of nations imposed by force or threat of force upon other nations or peoples.

All this quibbling about rights or laws is just so much childish nonsense obscuring the real nature of this an every other geopolitical stuggle.

 

[kvetch]

Y-K

According to you palestine does not exist and nor do palestinians and all the land bar none belongs by right to Israel.

What then would you do with non jews who are a very large part of the polulation and would one day be a majority in greater israel.

Are they to have a vote, and citizenship?

A jewish version of Dhimmis with reduced rights?

Expelled like most of their compatriots in 1948 and 1967?

Can they be left in what were biblical Jewish cities like Hebron?

I really do't see what point there is in you talking about International Law of any kind since you are so far away from any of its tenets re anything related to Israel-Palestine!

 

[YKohen]

De facto, by rejecting UN 181 in 1948- the resolution that was going to establish two states here, they gave up claims to a state.

And de jure, in 1964 with their PLO Charter, they gave up all sovereign claims:

"THE PALESTINIAN NATIONAL CHARTER" (Al-Mithaq Al-Kawmee Al-Philisteeni), Adopted in 1964 by the 1st Palestinian Conference

Article 24: This Organization does not exercise any territorial sovereignty over the West Bank in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, on the Gaza Strip or in the Himmah Area.

Permanent Observer Mission of Palestine to the United Nations - Palestine National Charter of 1964

Anything unclear?

Yes.

It is unclear to me why anybody thinks nations or people are really subject to something as abstract as "the law".

The Palestinians lost hope of establishing a sovereign nation when the land was taken over by a superior force.

That's the nature of geopolitics.


International law isn't something handed down from heaven or something based on moral or legally correct behaviors. International law is the will of one nation or group of nations imposed by force or threat of force upon other nations or peoples.

All this quibbling about rights or laws is just so much childish nonsense obscuring the real nature of this an every other geopolitical stuggle.

The would-have-been "Palestinians" didn't think they were "'subject to something as abstract as 'the law'",and see what a price they paid?

They Palestinians lost their chance of "establishing a sovereign nation" when they chose war INSTEAD OF a state. UN 181 gave them that, and the Jews accepted it. The would-have-been "Palestinians" rejected it- violently.

Oh well. That's their choice.

 

[YKohen]

Y-K

According to you palestine does not exist and nor do palestinians and all the land bar none belongs by right to Israel.

Obviously that's the case.

What then would you do with non jews who are a very large part of the polulation and would one day be a majority in greater israel.

They won't be:

"Jewish Majority: Stable Now; Growth Spurt in 2025" (8 Iyar 5767, 26 April 07)

As Israel enters its 60th year, the American-Israel Demographic Research Group (AIDRG) provides some good news: The ground is being prepared for a major Jewish demographic boost, beginning in 2025.

The Arab birthrate is down, while the Jewish birthrate - especially in the hareidi and religious sectors - is increasing. The effects are currently merely arithmetic, but these are expected to begin multiplying geometrically within a generation.

At present, the Jewish majority is hovering around 80%, with the religious and hareidi populations each representing slightly over 10% of this amount. Latest Central Bureau of Statistics numbers show that there are 600,000 hareidi-religious Jews, and about that many who describe themselves as "religious."

By 2025, however, this sector is expected to grow to nearly 30% of the Jewish population - and to 23% of the entire country. As time passes, its growth will be faster and faster, as the most fertile sectors make up increasingly larger portions of the population...

Also see:

The Million Person Gap: A Critical Look at Palestinian Demography

Are they to have a vote, and citizenship?

They chose war instead of a state time and again. Obviously they won't be rewarded for violence, intransigence, and aggression; not with a state of their own here in OUR land, and not withany part of OUR state.

A jewish version of Dhimmis with reduced rights?

That's hilarious! THEY tried to "throw the Jews into the sea"- taking away ALL of our rights, and this is your concern.

They're like the guy who murders his parents and then cries for mercy from the court on the grounds of being an orphan.

Expelled like most of their compatriots in 1948 and 1967?

Please learn history before posting. It makes for a muchmore meaningful discussion.

Can they be left in what were biblical Jewish cities like Hebron?

Could be. Depends on them.

See The Israeli Initiative

I really do't see what point there is in you talking about International Law of any kind since you are so far away from any of its tenets re anything related to Israel-Palestine!

Of course I am- and I can back it up as well. The fact is that NOBODY has even bothered to successfully challenge the original post in this thread. Everyone dodges it.

 

[editec]

De facto, by rejecting UN 181 in 1948- the resolution that was going to establish two states here, they gave up claims to a state.

And de jure, in 1964 with their PLO Charter, they gave up all sovereign claims:

"THE PALESTINIAN NATIONAL CHARTER" (Al-Mithaq Al-Kawmee Al-Philisteeni), Adopted in 1964 by the 1st Palestinian Conference

Article 24: This Organization does not exercise any territorial sovereignty over the West Bank in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, on the Gaza Strip or in the Himmah Area.

Permanent Observer Mission of Palestine to the United Nations - Palestine National Charter of 1964

Anything unclear?

Yes.

It is unclear to me why anybody thinks nations or people are really subject to something as abstract as "the law".

The Palestinians lost hope of establishing a sovereign nation when the land was taken over by a superior force.

That's the nature of geopolitics.


International law isn't something handed down from heaven or something based on moral or legally correct behaviors. International law is the will of one nation or group of nations imposed by force or threat of force upon other nations or peoples.

All this quibbling about rights or laws is just so much childish nonsense obscuring the real nature of this an every other geopolitical stuggle.

The would-have-been "Palestinians" didn't think they were "'subject to something as abstract as 'the law'",and see what a price they paid?

I see that they did not get driven our of the homes by lawyers, dude, what do you see?

I see that they got their asses handed to them by people with weapons.

So was it law or was it POWER that made them pay that price?

They Palestinians lost their chance of "establishing a sovereign nation" when they chose war INSTEAD OF a state. UN 181 gave them that, and the Jews accepted it. The would-have-been "Palestinians" rejected it- violently.

Was it "the UN law" the Zionists used to drive people out of their homes or was it weapons?

Oh well. That's their choice.

Yes they did have a choice.


They could go along with what the people with superior firep[ower told them or they could fight.

They choose to fight and they lost.

The LAW had nothing to do with it.

International law is meaningless without weapons backing it up.

 

[kvetch]

Y=K

I agree with you re population trends

I read the Israeli initiative .

It is, of course , a non starter for 1000 reasons of real politik and common sense.

a nice beneficial kind of apartheid

but I just wanted to know what your solution is.

is that exactly what you advocate?

So no voting rights in GREATER israel at all for arabs in gaza or the west bank. and you wish to deport as many as you possibly can to Jordan, etc

in a nice way, of course,

and for the rest of the world to pay for israel's ethnic cleansing past present and future

Probably you wish the same to apply to israeli citizen arabs too, ASAP.

Israeli settlers like you are getting less and less "humanitarian" toward their arab neighbours.

I trust that does NOT include you!

I see no point in arguing the quasi legal toss with you about past legalities; its complex and time consuming and fruitless as well.

There is no question at all that ALL the current arbiters of international law now regard you and all your fellow settlers as criminals

That is the truth, and and all deflections are just that!