The Palestinian Emirates "Solution"

[rylah]

Indeependent
But is an agreement through 3rd party surrender? On the basis that Ishmael recognizes Isaac's rights and vice versa?

 

[USAF 2023]

Where else would they be allowed to live. Israel has been pushing Palestinians into bantustans for a long time.

Did you read the link?

Hi,

I read it. It’s interesting but I also liked Olmert’s Peace Plan at the time. It could have worked but Abbas didn’t offer ANY alternatives.

It was a suicude note.

Israel’s suicide note? He proposed Jerusalem be a “ International City” Giving up not ALL of the West Bank, just keeping the “ Jewish Quarter” and “ Right of Return” of some “ refugees” If that was accepted, why would it be Israel’s demise?

You know what happens when a Jew surrenders an inch?
Why did Israel have to surrender land it won in a war?
Why not the Golan Heights?
I think you’re losing sight of the fact that Israel back then was not the powerhouse Israel is now.

I agree that Israel should NEVER give up the Golan Heights. They already gave up Gaza. Olmerts plan was not getting out of E. Jerusalem. Just giving the Palestinians “ Sovereignty” over their own . However, any “ Right of Return” should be wiped off the table

 

[rylah]

Guys but we're not talking here about the Golan heights.

Let's take Gaza as an example, it's easier to see it as a possible Emirate.
What steps would it take to transform it to a full time prosperous emirate?

 

[USAF 2023]

Hi,

I read it. It’s interesting but I also liked Olmert’s Peace Plan at the time. It could have worked but Abbas didn’t offer ANY alternatives.

It was a suicude note.

Israel’s suicide note? He proposed Jerusalem be a “ International City” Giving up not ALL of the West Bank, just keeping the “ Jewish Quarter” and “ Right of Return” of some “ refugees” If that was accepted, why would it be Israel’s demise?

I think Olmert’s plan would still be good but I don’t think he had the political capital to push it through on his side.

Abbas rejected it. Supposedly because Olmert didn’t propose total “ Right of Return” and he did not want Jerusalem to be an “ International Cityl

And if he “accepted” it there would have been a war the next day.

IF ( lol) a official Peace Treaty was signed to show the World and War broke out then I would have to say: WINNER ( Israel) take all !!!

 

[Indeependent]

Did you read the link?

Hi,

I read it. It’s interesting but I also liked Olmert’s Peace Plan at the time. It could have worked but Abbas didn’t offer ANY alternatives.

It was a suicude note.

Israel’s suicide note? He proposed Jerusalem be a “ International City” Giving up not ALL of the West Bank, just keeping the “ Jewish Quarter” and “ Right of Return” of some “ refugees” If that was accepted, why would it be Israel’s demise?

You know what happens when a Jew surrenders an inch?
Why did Israel have to surrender land it won in a war?
Why not the Golan Heights?
I think you’re losing sight of the fact that Israel back then was not the powerhouse Israel is now.

I agree that Israel should NEVER give up the Golan Heights. They already gave up Gaza. Olmerts plan was not getting out of E. Jerusalem. Just giving the Palestinians “ Sovereignty” over their own . However, any “ Right of Return” should be wiped off the table

That’s what Arabs need...sovereignty and guns!

 

[Indeependent]

Indeependent
But is an agreement through 3rd party surrender? On the basis that Ishmael recognizes Isaac's rights and vice versa?

Since 680AD, the Arabs have recognized their right to be masters of the world.

 

[Indeependent]

Guys but we're not talking here about the Golan heights.

Let's take Gaza as an example, it's easier to see it as a possible Emirate.
What steps would it take to transform it to a full time prosperous emirate?

Gaza belongs to Ham and his descendants.
Western Gaza needs to conquer Eastern Gaza.

 

[rylah]

Guys but we're not talking here about the Golan heights.

Let's take Gaza as an example, it's easier to see it as a possible Emirate.
What steps would it take to transform it to a full time prosperous emirate?

Gaza belongs to Ham and his descendants.
Western Gaza needs to conquer Eastern Gaza.

Do You think thew can do it alone...or need help (not from Israel)?

 

[Indeependent]

Guys but we're not talking here about the Golan heights.

Let's take Gaza as an example, it's easier to see it as a possible Emirate.
What steps would it take to transform it to a full time prosperous emirate?

Gaza belongs to Ham and his descendants.
Western Gaza needs to conquer Eastern Gaza.

Do You think thew can do it alone...or need help (not from Israel)?

We don’t even know if Western Gaza is playing Eastern Gaza against Israel.
We have no clue whatsoever.

 

[rylah]

Did you read the link?

Hi,

I read it. It’s interesting but I also liked Olmert’s Peace Plan at the time. It could have worked but Abbas didn’t offer ANY alternatives.

It was a suicude note.

Israel’s suicide note? He proposed Jerusalem be a “ International City” Giving up not ALL of the West Bank, just keeping the “ Jewish Quarter” and “ Right of Return” of some “ refugees” If that was accepted, why would it be Israel’s demise?

You know what happens when a Jew surrenders an inch?
Why did Israel have to surrender land it won in a war?
Why not the Golan Heights?
I think you’re losing sight of the fact that Israel back then was not the powerhouse Israel is now.

I agree that Israel should NEVER give up the Golan Heights. They already gave up Gaza. Olmerts plan was not getting out of E. Jerusalem. Just giving the Palestinians “ Sovereignty” over their own . However, any “ Right of Return” should be wiped off the table

If You give up Jerusalem You don't have a right to Tel-Aviv... or anything
That's why Dr. Kedar didn't talk about her.

 

[USAF 2023]

Indeependent
But is an agreement through 3rd party surrender? On the basis that Ishmael recognizes Isaac's rights and vice versa?

Since 680AD, the Arabs have recognized their right to be masters of the world.

Maybe a Sand Dune or Pyramid

 

[Ropey]

Probably gonna make fool of myself...isn't this relevant?

ומצינו בזוהר הקדוש (ח"ב לב, א), בענין הזה דברים נוראים, וזה לשונו הקדוש. תא חזי ארבע מאה שנין קיימא ההוא ממנא דבני ישמעאל, ובעא קמי קודשא בריך הוא א"ל מאן דאתגזר אית ליה חולקא בשמך, א"ל אין, א"ל והא ישמעאל דאתגזר (ולא עוד אלא דאתגזר בר תליסר שנין), אמאי לית ליה חולקא בך כמו יצחק, א"ל דא אתגזר כדקא יאות וכתיקונוי ודא לאו הכי, ולא עוד אלא דאלין מתדבקין בי כדקא יאות לתמניא יומין ואלין רחיקין מני עד כמה ימים, א"ל ועם כל דא כיון דאתגזר לא יהא ליה אגר טב בגיניה, ווי על ההוא זמנא דאתיליד ישמעאל בעלמא ואתגזר, מה עבד קודשא בריך הוא, ארחיק להו לבני ישמעאל מדבקותא דלעילא, ויהב להו חולקא לתתא בארעא קדישא בגין ההוא גזירו דבהון, וזמינין בני ישמעאל למשלט בארעא קדישא כד איהי ריקניא מכלא זמנא סגי כמה דגזירו דלהון בריקניא בלא שלימו, ואינון יעכבון להון לבנ"י לאתבא לדוכתייהו עד דישתלים ההוא זכותא דבני ישמעאל וכו', ויעו"ש עוד בעתיד בני ישמעאל במלחמותיהם, ומלחמת בני אדום עליהם, וארעא קדישא לא יתמסר בידי אדום, והמלחמות על רומי וכו', ביום ההוא יהיה ה' אחד ושמו אחד. ע"כ.

They are cut off. Ishmael.

They are not of the chosen. Their tshuva is light and weak.

Still, that changes nothing I've said.

 

[rylah]

Probably gonna make fool of myself...isn't this relevant?

ומצינו בזוהר הקדוש (ח"ב לב, א), בענין הזה דברים נוראים, וזה לשונו הקדוש. תא חזי ארבע מאה שנין קיימא ההוא ממנא דבני ישמעאל, ובעא קמי קודשא בריך הוא א"ל מאן דאתגזר אית ליה חולקא בשמך, א"ל אין, א"ל והא ישמעאל דאתגזר (ולא עוד אלא דאתגזר בר תליסר שנין), אמאי לית ליה חולקא בך כמו יצחק, א"ל דא אתגזר כדקא יאות וכתיקונוי ודא לאו הכי, ולא עוד אלא דאלין מתדבקין בי כדקא יאות לתמניא יומין ואלין רחיקין מני עד כמה ימים, א"ל ועם כל דא כיון דאתגזר לא יהא ליה אגר טב בגיניה, ווי על ההוא זמנא דאתיליד ישמעאל בעלמא ואתגזר, מה עבד קודשא בריך הוא, ארחיק להו לבני ישמעאל מדבקותא דלעילא, ויהב להו חולקא לתתא בארעא קדישא בגין ההוא גזירו דבהון, וזמינין בני ישמעאל למשלט בארעא קדישא כד איהי ריקניא מכלא זמנא סגי כמה דגזירו דלהון בריקניא בלא שלימו, ואינון יעכבון להון לבנ"י לאתבא לדוכתייהו עד דישתלים ההוא זכותא דבני ישמעאל וכו', ויעו"ש עוד בעתיד בני ישמעאל במלחמותיהם, ומלחמת בני אדום עליהם, וארעא קדישא לא יתמסר בידי אדום, והמלחמות על רומי וכו', ביום ההוא יהיה ה' אחד ושמו אחד. ע"כ.

They are cut off. Ishmael.

They are not of the chosen. Their tshuva is light and weak.

Still, that changes nothing I've said.

Ahi this is a very interesting exchange, but I think most of the people can't understand what or why we're talking about

So all around, before we dig the details -Palestinian Emirates, viable or not?

 

[Ropey]

Most of these details were worked out long before there was an Arab "Palestinian" identity.

The Arabs are simply going back to what they wanted in the beginning before they were hijacked by cultural Marxism which enabled a division to create extremism.

The Jews had to fight off cultural Marxism after the state's creation.

This 'deal' will be in full accordance with both brothers and there's no need for interlopers or interlocutors.

That was the real problem.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Hi,

I read it. It’s interesting but I also liked Olmert’s Peace Plan at the time. It could have worked but Abbas didn’t offer ANY alternatives.

It was a suicude note.

Israel’s suicide note? He proposed Jerusalem be a “ International City” Giving up not ALL of the West Bank, just keeping the “ Jewish Quarter” and “ Right of Return” of some “ refugees” If that was accepted, why would it be Israel’s demise?

I think Olmert’s plan would still be good but I don’t think he had the political capital to push it through on his side.

Abbas rejected it. Supposedly because Olmert didn’t propose total “ Right of Return” and he did not want Jerusalem to be an “ International Cityl

I also think he had doubts on whether Olmert could deliver....but it is all water under the bridge now. What do you think of the Emerites idea?

It is a solution to what problem?

 

[rylah]

Most of these details were worked out long before there was an Arab "Palestinian" identity.

The Arabs are simply going back to what they wanted in the beginning before they were hijacked by cultural Marxism which enabled a division to create extremism.

The Jews had to fight off cultural Marxism after the state's creation.

This 'deal' will be in full accordance with both brothers and there's no need for interlopers or interlocutors.

That was the real problem.

There's this thing, You know that Jews in Judea Samaria are establishing direct contacts with chief sheikhs. What's common and mutual is the understanding that neither Hamas or PLO can sign anything on the land - they just don't have the authority to sign anything because ...wait for it... the land doesn't belong to "Palestinians" (in the sense of the meaning of the word in politics). On our side, my Rabbi for example says we're not allowed to sign anything off (directly?), not even water agreements.


I like the essence of the Emirate idea, to empower local sheikhs to get rid of Hamas and PLO, just don't know how to reconcile these two conditions mentioned above. Guess that's like trying to eat the cake and leave it full.

 

[Ropey]

Most of these details were worked out long before there was an Arab "Palestinian" identity.

The Arabs are simply going back to what they wanted in the beginning before they were hijacked by cultural Marxism which enabled a division to create extremism.

The Jews had to fight off cultural Marxism after the state's creation.

This 'deal' will be in full accordance with both brothers and there's no need for interlopers or interlocutors.

That was the real problem.

There's this thing, You know that Jews in Judea Samaria are establishing direct contacts with chief sheikhs. What's common and mutual is the understanding that neither Hamas or PLO can sign anything on the land - they just don't have the authority to sign anything because ...wait for it... the land doesn't belong to "Palestinians" (in the sense of the meaning of the word in politics). On our side, my Rabbi for example says we're not allowed to sign anything off (directly?), not even water agreements.


I like the essence of the Emirate idea, to empower local sheikhs to get rid of Hamas and PLO, just don't know how to reconcile these two conditions mentioned above. Guess that's like trying to eat the cake and leave it full.

I understand why the Marxist controlled Arabs with their supporting French, German, Russians etc. . . never wanted a Jew in the room to negotiate. They are big on division. Hegel showed them the way and Marx ran with it.

The left are big on courtrooms without defense attorneys.

imo?

Do not worry.

G-d's got this one... in the bag and he's put some of the good old boys in the negotiating room.



Boy, I bet all the cultural Marxists don't like what's happening ... or this thread.

 

[Ropey]

Indeependent
But is an agreement through 3rd party surrender? On the basis that Ishmael recognizes Isaac's rights and vice versa?

Ishmael has no rights until the end of times. This is simply mundane negotions over what G-d has given Isaac.

G-d gives those rights to Ishmael when the time comes at the end when the time is not of man anymore. Until then, we have choice. There are two possibilities and so the rights are at the end... when their actions that are still in the future can be determined.

Still, if we Jews can get enough of our own to perform tshuva, the end is now and no pain.

If we can't, the end is at 6000 years and there will be pain.

Ismael will not like it. So they had better be good and help the chosen in their performing of tsuva. Esau as well.

Or they will both not like it.

 

[danielpalos]

We have had discussions on two-state, three-state and one-state "solutions" - this is a new one that has not had a discussion devoted to it. Thank you rylah for bringing it up.

The link is: Palestinian Emirates Introduction

The idea is fascinating. I disagree with some of his historic preamble...but that is neither hear nor there.

Some of the points he makes are valid imo. The non-nationalist loyalties of the Palestinian's themselves that is also reflective of the Arab culture surrounding them in general - stronger loyalties to family, tribe and locale than to a "nation". This is evident in the high degree of corruption in the ruling parties. A more local governance might be more effective. There was a day when city-states were common - before the idea of nation states came into being. This might be a viable answer.

My one major concern is this. Dr. Kedar makes a point that no Jewish families should be forced to move (as would happen in a two-state solution) - but, in this solution - neither should any Palestinian families. Their right to remain where they are must be preserved.

What are your thoughts on this?

Sounds like it could work. Draft an aristocrat to bailout an area of Anarchy, with the goodness of Order.

Or, let's ask the UN to do it.

 

[danielpalos]

We have had discussions on two-state, three-state and one-state "solutions" - this is a new one that has not had a discussion devoted to it. Thank you rylah for bringing it up.

The link is: Palestinian Emirates Introduction

The idea is fascinating. I disagree with some of his historic preamble...but that is neither hear nor there.

Some of the points he makes are valid imo. The non-nationalist loyalties of the Palestinian's themselves that is also reflective of the Arab culture surrounding them in general - stronger loyalties to family, tribe and locale than to a "nation". This is evident in the high degree of corruption in the ruling parties. A more local governance might be more effective. There was a day when city-states were common - before the idea of nation states came into being. This might be a viable answer.

My one major concern is this. Dr. Kedar makes a point that no Jewish families should be forced to move (as would happen in a two-state solution) - but, in this solution - neither should any Palestinian families. Their right to remain where they are must be preserved.

What are your thoughts on this?

I raise you.

How about The Dey of Palestine?