The Palestinian Emirates "Solution"

[Coyote]

We have had discussions on two-state, three-state and one-state "solutions" - this is a new one that has not had a discussion devoted to it. Thank you rylah for bringing it up.

The link is: Palestinian Emirates Introduction

The idea is fascinating. I disagree with some of his historic preamble...but that is neither hear nor there.

Some of the points he makes are valid imo. The non-nationalist loyalties of the Palestinian's themselves that is also reflective of the Arab culture surrounding them in general - stronger loyalties to family, tribe and locale than to a "nation". This is evident in the high degree of corruption in the ruling parties. A more local governance might be more effective. There was a day when city-states were common - before the idea of nation states came into being. This might be a viable answer.

My one major concern is this. Dr. Kedar makes a point that no Jewish families should be forced to move (as would happen in a two-state solution) - but, in this solution - neither should any Palestinian families. Their right to remain where they are must be preserved.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Coyote]

This is the summary from the link:

EIGHTEEN POINT EXECUTIVE SUMMARY



1/ The only true loyalty of the Middle Eastern Arabs is to family, clan and tribe and the local sheikhs who are their only true leaders.


2/ There is little trust that currently exists between people of the different tribes in the Arab Palestinian cities of Judea, Samaria and Gaza.


3/ Any PLO/PA led government of a Palestinian state would most likely become another corrupt and failed Arab state just like Syria, Sudan and Libya.



4/ If a Palestinian state would be established then Hamas would soon seize control in Judea & Samaria (the "West Bank") from the weak and corrupt PLO/PA/Fatah leading to a battle between Hamas and the Islamic State for control of the Levant, the land bridge between Turkey and Egypt.


5/ Israel would be faced on two borders by Hamas whose Charter openly calls for the destruction of the Jewish Homeland and the killing of Jews worldwide.



6/ The PLO/PA/Fatah and Hamas are not reliable negotiating partners for peace.


7/ The Two State Solution was already achieved in 2007 when Hamas established its state in the Gaza strip.


8/ Israel should take the lead to find a workable solution in light of the biased November 2012 and December 2016 UN votes which did not confer actual statehood to the Palestinians.


9/ As tribal leaders, the individual sheikhs may want their independence from the PLO/PA or the openly hostile terror groups to chart their own destiny of peace and prosperity.



10/ Israel should recognize the development of independent city-states, a/k/a emirates, in seven cities of Judea & Samaria, which would likely occur over a period of a few months.


11/ Each of the seven city-states in Judea & Samaria will be based socially on the local group of clans. Altogether there would be emirates in the seven non-contiguous emirates in the cities of Jenin, Nablus, Ramallah, Jericho, Tul-Karm, Kalkilya, and the Arab part of Hebron. This is in addition to the emirate already established in the Hamas-led Gaza strip.


12/ The Arab Palestinians living in the seven largest cities in Judea & Samaria would become citizens of those city-states. The remaining Arab Palestinians living in the rural areas could remain in place with citizenship to be determined in the future, or migrate to one of the city-states or another country. Israel might offer its citizenship to villagers who agree to be peaceful Israeli citizens.



13/ The Palestinian refugee problem can only be only solved in the Muslim Arab states, not in the Jewish State of Israel.



14/ As these independent Arab Palestinian emirates develop, they may choose to form a beneficial alliance together to increase security, economic development and other aspects of common interest.



15/ The sheikhs would view the more powerful Israel as invincible and establish a renewable temporary peace in order to focus on eliminating the terrorist and jihadist elements within the secure borders of their city-states.



16/ Israel would absorb and control the rural areas of Judea & Samaria to enhance security and development for the region.


17/ The PLO/PA leadership will eventually disappear from Judea & Samaria once the emirate movement takes root.



18/ Since being liberated in 1967 after a 19-year Jordanian occupation, Jerusalem will remain as the undivided capital of the Jewish nation which welcomes peaceful visitors of all faiths from all over the world to come and pray at their holy sites.

 

[saveliberty]

I think it would end up like urban gangs in a big city. All you can really do is help everyone be invested in the community they live in.

 

[P F Tinmore]

This sounds like a bantustan solution.

 

[Coyote]

This sounds like a bantustan solution.

Only if all Palestinians were forced to live there - and that I would disagree with.

 

[fncceo]

I like it ... but Hamas and PLO will never voluntarily agree to give up the control they have over their local populations. If the sheiks were to create militias to fight the PLO in the West Bank, the situation will quickly degenerate into a Beirut scenario with Israel just trying to contain the spillover of violence into their own territory.

No Jews in the West Bank would be safe from the resulting carnage.

 

[P F Tinmore]

This sounds like a bantustan solution.

Only if all Palestinians were forced to live there - and that I would disagree with.

Where else would they be allowed to live. Israel has been pushing Palestinians into bantustans for a long time.

 

[saveliberty]

Pay them to relocate to Detroit.

 

[Coyote]

This sounds like a bantustan solution.

Only if all Palestinians were forced to live there - and that I would disagree with.

Where else would they be allowed to live. Israel has been pushing Palestinians into bantustans for a long time.

Did you read the link?

 

[Coyote]

I like it ... but Hamas and PLO will never voluntarily agree to give up the control they have over their local populations. If the sheiks were to create militias to fight the PLO in the West Bank, the situation will quickly degenerate into a Beirut scenario with Israel just trying to contain the spillover of violence into their own territory.

No Jews in the West Bank would be safe from the resulting carnage.

Could the PLO effectively fight local control - especially if democratically elected? Neither PLO nor Hamas are particularly popular among the Palestinians, there just isn't a whole lot of choice.

 

[fncceo]

I like it ... but Hamas and PLO will never voluntarily agree to give up the control they have over their local populations. If the sheiks were to create militias to fight the PLO in the West Bank, the situation will quickly degenerate into a Beirut scenario with Israel just trying to contain the spillover of violence into their own territory.

No Jews in the West Bank would be safe from the resulting carnage.

Could the PLO effectively fight local control - especially if democratically elected? Neither PLO nor Hamas are particularly popular among the Palestinians, there just isn't a whole lot of choice.

Both Hamas and the PLO are pretty effective at one thing ... eliminating the competition. Anyone who they deem a threat to their control is immediately accused of being a 'Zionist Sympathizer' and publicly shot to send a message.

Not too many local chieftains or sheiks are going to stand against them.

 

[Sixties Fan]

I like it ... but Hamas and PLO will never voluntarily agree to give up the control they have over their local populations. If the sheiks were to create militias to fight the PLO in the West Bank, the situation will quickly degenerate into a Beirut scenario with Israel just trying to contain the spillover of violence into their own territory.

No Jews in the West Bank would be safe from the resulting carnage.

Could the PLO effectively fight local control - especially if democratically elected? Neither PLO nor Hamas are particularly popular among the Palestinians, there just isn't a whole lot of choice.

Both Hamas and the PLO are pretty effective at one thing ... eliminating the competition. Anyone who they deem a threat to their control is immediately accused of being a 'Zionist Sympathizer' and publicly shot to send a message.

Not too many local chieftains or sheiks are going to stand against them.

This is exactly what happened 100 years ago.

Some clans wanted to live in peace with the Jews in a new Jewish State, side by side with Arab States, and the Husseini clan saw to it that many were killed or made to run off.

Husseini, to Arafat (same clan ). And it goes on .

 

[Hollie]

We have had discussions on two-state, three-state and one-state "solutions" - this is a new one that has not had a discussion devoted to it. Thank you rylah for bringing it up.

The link is: Palestinian Emirates Introduction

The idea is fascinating. I disagree with some of his historic preamble...but that is neither hear nor there.

Some of the points he makes are valid imo. The non-nationalist loyalties of the Palestinian's themselves that is also reflective of the Arab culture surrounding them in general - stronger loyalties to family, tribe and locale than to a "nation". This is evident in the high degree of corruption in the ruling parties. A more local governance might be more effective. There was a day when city-states were common - before the idea of nation states came into being. This might be a viable answer.

My one major concern is this. Dr. Kedar makes a point that no Jewish families should be forced to move (as would happen in a two-state solution) - but, in this solution - neither should any Palestinian families. Their right to remain where they are must be preserved.

What are your thoughts on this?

That was a really interesting find and suggests some new ideas. I think ultimately, the bloated UNRWA organization would need to be removed from implementation of the Emirates solution. The competing factions of the PA/ PLO and Hamas have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo of receiving that lucrative endowment with virtually no accountability. The “prize” of control over billions of dollars channeled through UNRWA would need to be removed as an excuse for the many emirates to devolve into little more than warring tribes, each looking to stand on the necks of the other as an advantage to secure foreign donations.

 

[P F Tinmore]

This sounds like a bantustan solution.

Only if all Palestinians were forced to live there - and that I would disagree with.

Where else would they be allowed to live. Israel has been pushing Palestinians into bantustans for a long time.

Did you read the link?

I have. It can't work. It would be population centers (bantustans) cut off from the resources and distribution networks required to have a functioning economy. It would be similar to what we have now where the only "economy" is foreign aid.

This is what worked before and is what works in every country. Each city is the center of a support network.

 

[Ropey]

Jordan.

That will be the Palestinian state. The rule will be by the GCC.

 

[Hollie]

This sounds like a bantustan solution.

Only if all Palestinians were forced to live there - and that I would disagree with.

Where else would they be allowed to live. Israel has been pushing Palestinians into bantustans for a long time.

Did you read the link?

I have. It can't work. It would be population centers (bantustans) cut off from the resources and distribution networks required to have a functioning economy. It would be similar to what we have now where the only "economy" is foreign aid.

This is what worked before and is what works in every country. Each city is the center of a support network.

Trying to rebuild the Ottoman Empire is not a viable solution.

 

[Pete7469]

How about this "solution".

Muslims shut the fuck up and act like human fucking beings. Live peacefully in Israeli territory, and obey their fucking laws, as they are more than willing to allow.

Otherwise get the fuck out.

It's Israeli land. Muslims lost the wars they started so shut the fuck up and "coexist" with people who are busy creating shit but willing to share the space with you if you don't decide to blow yourself up on a fucking bus full of people.

Pretty goddamned simple.

 

[Coyote]

This sounds like a bantustan solution.

Only if all Palestinians were forced to live there - and that I would disagree with.

Where else would they be allowed to live. Israel has been pushing Palestinians into bantustans for a long time.

Did you read the link?

I have. It can't work. It would be population centers (bantustans) cut off from the resources and distribution networks required to have a functioning economy. It would be similar to what we have now where the only "economy" is foreign aid.

This is what worked before and is what works in every country. Each city is the center of a support network.

The City State idea HAS worked though - it worked in Italy.

 

[Coyote]

Jordan.

That will be the Palestinian state. The rule will be by the GCC.

Would then forceably remove the Palestinians to Jordan?

 

[P F Tinmore]

This sounds like a bantustan solution.

Only if all Palestinians were forced to live there - and that I would disagree with.

Where else would they be allowed to live. Israel has been pushing Palestinians into bantustans for a long time.

Did you read the link?

I have. It can't work. It would be population centers (bantustans) cut off from the resources and distribution networks required to have a functioning economy. It would be similar to what we have now where the only "economy" is foreign aid.

This is what worked before and is what works in every country. Each city is the center of a support network.

The City State idea HAS worked though - it worked in Italy.

Links?