The Palestinian Emirates "Solution"

[P F Tinmore]

Why would You want Palestinian Arabs be left out of this joint regional development?

Only 1/3 of Palestinians live in the West Bank and Gaza.

Are we trying to solve the Palestinian's problems or Israel's?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Do you all recognize the significance of creating such a Trade Route in the Levant? It benefits ALL the neighbors. Jordan would be greatly boosted connected by 4 or 5 hour truck traffic to an Med port.

It's almost irresistible unless you HATE trade, prosperity, and jobs. And maybe Hamas does -- but not the rest of the region..

My question is not the route. My question is who can slam the doors?

Question would be for what valid REASONS can ANY of the nations connected to this --- slam the doors?

I suppose all that would be agreed upon by Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel and whatever "federation" the Palestine City States wanted to create. Would be up to the Palestinians who belongs in the "federation" and can benefit as long as the group Administrating the route agree to provide security services.

I doubt Egypt, Israel, Jordan would have issues sharing security, maintenance, customs roles. In FACT, if GAZA had a port connected to this -- It could EASILY be staffed at customs with Jordanians, or Egyptians or at some point Palestinians. If they ever got their act together enough to FORM an Internationally recognized Customs agency.

Why don't you go help them do that??

Question would be for what valid REASONS can ANY of the nations connected to this --- slam the doors?

Gaza is under complete blockade. The West bank less so but still under complete control. Israel controls the walls and doors. That would have to change.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Do you all recognize the significance of creating such a Trade Route in the Levant? It benefits ALL the neighbors. Jordan would be greatly boosted connected by 4 or 5 hour truck traffic to an Med port.

It's almost irresistible unless you HATE trade, prosperity, and jobs. And maybe Hamas does -- but not the rest of the region..

My question is not the route. My question is who can slam the doors?

Question would be for what valid REASONS can ANY of the nations connected to this --- slam the doors?

I suppose all that would be agreed upon by Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel and whatever "federation" the Palestine City States wanted to create. Would be up to the Palestinians who belongs in the "federation" and can benefit as long as the group Administrating the route agree to provide security services.

I doubt Egypt, Israel, Jordan would have issues sharing security, maintenance, customs roles. In FACT, if GAZA had a port connected to this -- It could EASILY be staffed at customs with Jordanians, or Egyptians or at some point Palestinians. If they ever got their act together enough to FORM an Internationally recognized Customs agency.

Why don't you go help them do that??

Everything into and out of the West Bank and Gaza is controlled by Israel. How would this system remove that control?

By connecting all the OTHER Palestinian major cities states with access to EACH other and the rest of the Arab world. Build that Trade Corridor RIGHT UP to the Egyptian gate at Gaza and give it 5 years to develop and most of the Gaza residents will forget ALL ABOUT Hamas as "leadership". They'll see the REST of Palestine connected and thriving and will WANT to join the Federation that controls and uses these valuable assets.

In 6 or 8 years, the West Bank City states would have an Airhub. Gaza COULD have a world class seaport. Their attachment to Hamas would weaken and die.

Hamas leaves -- the road goes in.It's only about 50 miles of connector. Commerce and trade begin.

OK, but the Bethlehem governorate, for example, has 2/3 of its territory walled off from its control. Would that territory be returned?

 

[P F Tinmore]

And BTW they have self government and they have access to trade routes. How do you think they import and export goods? Using magic Aladdin's lamp?

What kind of "self-government" do they have? Youre ignoring these facts that they've hardly EVER had any "self-governing" in their entire history. Even "Pre-Palestine". They COULD have had a seaport and airport in Gaza. It was part of the joint agreement before that deal blew up.. They DO export from Gaza. Mostly farm products and simple processed foods. It's not reliable because they DO NOT HAVE a trade corridor.

In a way, I agree that it's not about trade, prosperity, money to a LOT of Palestinians. But those folks are not leaders or peace makers or nation builders. I agree there is NOT a pressing desire to advance into the 21st century as there is in most of the Arabian/Levant countries. And even in the "advanced" Arab world integrated countries like Egypt, Jordan, (used to be Lebanon), some of the Emirates ---- there's a general lack of desire to GIVE any govt the green light for any speedy progress and infrastructure.

But here's the deal. In another 50 years, these major Pali areas will be totally cut off from one another, turned into festering ghettos and become volatile beyond belief if Israel continues to strangle them a hectare at a time. HOW LONG you want to endure that process?

The only way to NEGOTIATE with a splintered Tribal/Religious/cultural anarchy mob -- is to give them a life in THIS CENTURY and let the leaders come forward to SELL and manage that transition. Much the way the Saudi tribe worked out how to connect with the world and look completely organized and legit and respected by the world.

But here's the deal. In another 50 years, these major Pali areas will be totally cut off from one another, turned into festering ghettos and become volatile beyond belief if Israel continues to strangle them a hectare at a time. HOW LONG you want to endure that process?

Thank you, and that has always been Israel's policy. That has to change or things will continue to get worse.

 

[flacaltenn]

When any of these fruits result in publication -- I'll let you know. Have 3 journals in mind -- but would appreciate other suggestions for the right place to present it.

I had all kind of suggestions when I first responded, but deleted them.
Because from my experience it's important to let oneself first finish capturing as much as possible without editorial judgment, or outside opinions. But that's me.

If You need to reach people in Israel, translation of Hebrew - say freely.

Really appreciate it. This discussion really sparked me to get to the general public and try to "move things" in a more constructive direction. One of things from this thread that was really valuable in making the case for "creative thinking" on this standoff was the link to the article where Abbas was "threatened" with the Palestinian Emirates solution. That alone won't get him thinking. But if there is a huge carrot attached to the stick -- it might.

I'm fully prepared to ask for help. LOL.... Maybe in PM tho as this develops...

 

[flacaltenn]

Why would You want Palestinian Arabs be left out of this joint regional development?

Only 1/3 of Palestinians live in the West Bank and Gaza.

Are we trying to solve the Palestinian's problems or Israel's?

You're not thinking this through. The OTHER 2/3 of "palestinians" live in more WRETCHED conditions in the neighboring Arab states. It would HIGHLY in the interests of Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon to TRADE those squalid bilighted refugee camps for parcels of land ADJACENT to this trade corridor. Thus ADDING land to the deal that Palestinians NEVER had control of. Perhaps they MIGHT get a BETTER deal if the entire neighborhood was motivated to participate in this deal..

 

[flacaltenn]

One thing I've uncovered is the amazing past history of trade in the Holy Land and Levant. I've been fascinated in how this idea is really "Back to the Future". If you search "holy land (or Levant) ancient trade routes" on Youtube or Bing you'll find maps placing all of Israel/Palestine neighbors in the middle of MANY ancient trade corridors. The parallels to this modern concept are just "book length" writing that would just have to be briefly mentioned in a journal length article.

Like the Perfume trade route?

Exactly. And here's the tragedy of how it all ended. It ended when the French, British, and Russians met for tea and divided up the Ottoman Empire spoils. THAT is why the whole neighborhood is now isolated kingdoms and states. That rough handedness EXAGGERATED the differences in the peoples of that area and made them nationalists dependent more on their governments than on economic success and prosperity...

 

[Linkiloo]

Why would You want Palestinian Arabs be left out of this joint regional development?

Only 1/3 of Palestinians live in the West Bank and Gaza.

Are we trying to solve the Palestinian's problems or Israel's?

You're not thinking this through. The OTHER 2/3 of "palestinians" live in more WRETCHED conditions in the neighboring Arab states. It would HIGHLY in the interests of Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon to TRADE those squalid bilighted refugee camps for parcels of land ADJACENT to this trade corridor. Thus ADDING land to the deal that Palestinians NEVER had control of. Perhaps they MIGHT get a BETTER deal if the entire neighborhood was motivated to participate in this deal..

Aren't you forgetting the element of irrationality that is common though in the matter of the Palestinians and Israel? There is little logic or real desire to improve the conditions of the Palestinians. This is about religious dogma and power. Do you think anyone can be persuaded with logic?

 

[rylah]

Why would You want Palestinian Arabs be left out of this joint regional development?

Only 1/3 of Palestinians live in the West Bank and Gaza.

Are we trying to solve the Palestinian's problems or Israel's?

So?
Both.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Why would You want Palestinian Arabs be left out of this joint regional development?

Only 1/3 of Palestinians live in the West Bank and Gaza.

Are we trying to solve the Palestinian's problems or Israel's?

You're not thinking this through. The OTHER 2/3 of "palestinians" live in more WRETCHED conditions in the neighboring Arab states. It would HIGHLY in the interests of Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon to TRADE those squalid bilighted refugee camps for parcels of land ADJACENT to this trade corridor. Thus ADDING land to the deal that Palestinians NEVER had control of. Perhaps they MIGHT get a BETTER deal if the entire neighborhood was motivated to participate in this deal..

Palestine's main money maker has always been the export of agricultural products. How will that work under this system?

 

[rylah]

When any of these fruits result in publication -- I'll let you know. Have 3 journals in mind -- but would appreciate other suggestions for the right place to present it.

I had all kind of suggestions when I first responded, but deleted them.
Because from my experience it's important to let oneself first finish capturing as much as possible without editorial judgment, or outside opinions. But that's me.

If You need to reach people in Israel, translation of Hebrew - say freely.

Really appreciate it. This discussion really sparked me to get to the general public and try to "move things" in a more constructive direction. One of things from this thread that was really valuable in making the case for "creative thinking" on this standoff was the link to the article where Abbas was "threatened" with the Palestinian Emirates solution. That alone won't get him thinking. But if there is a huge carrot attached to the stick -- it might.

I'm fully prepared to ask for help. LOL.... Maybe in PM tho as this develops...

Of course Abbas is threatened, of course Hamas are threatened - their status and financial wellbeing is a function of prolonging the conflict.
In this context, carrots themselves have to come with their own stick, but that's if the conversations is with Hamas and PA.

In the case of Emirates there's a need to establish connections with the leaders of the different tribes among the Arabs on the ground, it can be naturally done by representatives of the local communities themselves. It's not a 2 year process, but it also didn't start
yesterday, and the whole idea wouldn't be presented if there wasn't already a working medium to rely upon.

In my opinion there should't be any special carrots, it's a regional development project, for stability, trade, progress and coordination in which the interested should participate.
Once it's treated like so, everything can be put in practical terms and perspective.
Regional stabilization (including between Arab states), trade, jobs and development of infrastructure are the carrot itself.

Emirates can become trade centers, or roads can be built around those communities. It doesn't take too long to build a road. The beautiful thing is that this way the regional players are measured not by the amount of loud propaganda, but according to their development of, coordination with and investment into the region.

Both are independent approaches, while the development of both promotes each other.

 

[rylah]

Why would You want Palestinian Arabs be left out of this joint regional development?

Only 1/3 of Palestinians live in the West Bank and Gaza.

Are we trying to solve the Palestinian's problems or Israel's?

You're not thinking this through. The OTHER 2/3 of "palestinians" live in more WRETCHED conditions in the neighboring Arab states. It would HIGHLY in the interests of Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon to TRADE those squalid bilighted refugee camps for parcels of land ADJACENT to this trade corridor. Thus ADDING land to the deal that Palestinians NEVER had control of. Perhaps they MIGHT get a BETTER deal if the entire neighborhood was motivated to participate in this deal..

Palestine's main money maker has always been the export of agricultural products. How will that work under this system?

No, it was trade of goods from around the globe, agricultural product was just one, those who produced it were the poorest and weakest, difficult to call it a "money maker"

Q. What does Monaco do?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Why would You want Palestinian Arabs be left out of this joint regional development?

Only 1/3 of Palestinians live in the West Bank and Gaza.

Are we trying to solve the Palestinian's problems or Israel's?

You're not thinking this through. The OTHER 2/3 of "palestinians" live in more WRETCHED conditions in the neighboring Arab states. It would HIGHLY in the interests of Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon to TRADE those squalid bilighted refugee camps for parcels of land ADJACENT to this trade corridor. Thus ADDING land to the deal that Palestinians NEVER had control of. Perhaps they MIGHT get a BETTER deal if the entire neighborhood was motivated to participate in this deal..

Palestine's main money maker has always been the export of agricultural products. How will that work under this system?

No, it was trade of goods from around the globe, agricultural product was just one, those who produced it were the poorest and weakest, difficult to call it a "money maker"

International trade, taxes from transportation of goods, technology, infrastructure jobs, modern agriculture, specialized factories, banking, tourism - are better than a Feudal system.

Q. What does Monaco do?

Palestine had a positive balance of trade. Better than many countries in the world. Sure, Palestine exports furniture and fixtures, clothing and accessories, but mostly agricultural products.

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[rylah]

Why would You want Palestinian Arabs be left out of this joint regional development?

Only 1/3 of Palestinians live in the West Bank and Gaza.

Are we trying to solve the Palestinian's problems or Israel's?

You're not thinking this through. The OTHER 2/3 of "palestinians" live in more WRETCHED conditions in the neighboring Arab states. It would HIGHLY in the interests of Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon to TRADE those squalid bilighted refugee camps for parcels of land ADJACENT to this trade corridor. Thus ADDING land to the deal that Palestinians NEVER had control of. Perhaps they MIGHT get a BETTER deal if the entire neighborhood was motivated to participate in this deal..

Palestine's main money maker has always been the export of agricultural products. How will that work under this system?

No, it was trade of goods from around the globe, agricultural product was just one, those who produced it were the poorest and weakest, difficult to call it a "money maker"

International trade, taxes from transportation of goods, technology, infrastructure jobs, modern agriculture, specialized factories, banking, tourism - are better than a Feudal system.

Q. What does Monaco do?

Palestine had a positive balance of trade. Better than many countries in the world. Sure, Palestine exports furniture and fixtures, clothing and accessories, but mostly agricultural products.

You forget that it wasn't an independent trade, it was a chain, regulated by bigger empires.
That was Your "money maker", not the agriculture itself, it barely supplied the local simple people.
Look up the Perfume trade route:

 

[rylah]

Some grow partially their own, all of them import.
Q. Which country today is not dependent on another for constant supply of food?
Don't Ramallah and Gaza already export for decades?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Some grow partially their own, all of them import.
Q. Which country today is not dependent on another for constant supply of food?
Don't Ramallah and Gaza already export for decades?

Indeed, that is the neoliberal model that is being imposed on countries all over the world.

 

[rylah]

Some grow partially their own, all of them import.
Q. Which country today is not dependent on another for constant supply of food?
Don't Ramallah and Gaza already export for decades?

Indeed, that is the neoliberal model that is being imposed on countries all over the world.

This is the first time I hear of this term, from a short read it says it's a western term, has changed its' meaning a couple of times among different people. Not all western terms are relevant to the middle eastern societies.

How is this relevant?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Some grow partially their own, all of them import.
Q. Which country today is not dependent on another for constant supply of food?
Don't Ramallah and Gaza already export for decades?

Indeed, that is the neoliberal model that is being imposed on countries all over the world.

This is the first time I hear of this term, from a short read it says it's a western term, has changed its' meaning a couple of times among different people. Not all western terms are relevant to the middle eastern societies.

How is this relevant?

In this case I am talking about food security. A people must have control of their food sources. Palestine used to export food. Now it imports food. How and why did that happen?

Control oil and you can control countries. Control food and you can control people ~ Henry Kissenger

This is explained fairly well in the video I posted. Perhaps you should watch it again with these thoughts in mind.

 

[rylah]

Some grow partially their own, all of them import.
Q. Which country today is not dependent on another for constant supply of food?
Don't Ramallah and Gaza already export for decades?

Indeed, that is the neoliberal model that is being imposed on countries all over the world.

This is the first time I hear of this term, from a short read it says it's a western term, has changed its' meaning a couple of times among different people. Not all western terms are relevant to the middle eastern societies.

How is this relevant?

In this case I am talking about food security. A people must have control of their food sources. Palestine used to export food. Now it imports food. How and why did that happen?

Control oil and you can control countries. Control food and you can control people ~ Henry Kissenger

This is explained fairly well in the video I posted. Perhaps you should watch it again with these thoughts in mind.

Palestine always imported and circulated goods from around the world.
Israel imports from Gaza among many.


Q. When one uses the "control of food", do You imagine a bubble where there's no import of food? Show me an example of an economy that works like that.