The only proper purpose of a government

[bripat9643]

That's EXACTLY what you are proposing. (regardless of cutesy emoticons).
How often do you see people resort to personal insults and emoticons when they have no real counter-argument?

No, it isn't.

The FDA could very handily be replaced by outfits like Underwriter's Laboratories or an entirely new private testing operation.

One of the big problems with the mindset of the lolberal central planner mindset is the completely preposterous noting that if Big Daddy Big Gubmint didn't do X, Y or Z, then nobody would do it.

One of the big problems with the mindset of Libertarians is the completely preposterous notion that corporations would work for the higher good without government regulation. History has definitively proven otherwise time and time and time and time again.

Corporations work to make profit. In a free market they can only do that by serving the customers. In a fascist economy like the one we have now they do it by serving politicians, with political pull, bribes, "campaign donations," etc,. The last thing they have to do is server their customers.

 

[bripat9643]

The REAL problem behind Libertarianism anarchism, and anarcho-_________ (fill in the blank with anything) is that it is, at its core, a utopian fantasy of "the way things ought to be" that quickly crumbles in the real world.

That's WHY you don't see it working anywhere. You may see some locales that dabble with some of the ideas for a short time before people who were stupid enough to actually try it, realize their mistake and reverse coarse. None of these political philosophies have ever survived on even a medium-sized scale for any length of time.

Examples?

 

[nodoginnafight]

I'm wondering if Obama has promised the service of government ass-wipers for these folks? None of them think they can do anything without the government handling it for them. Ass wiping is part of the social contract. If we all pitch in and wipe each other's asses, no one has to wipe their own.

Ahhh create a straw man to claim "straw man"... interesting tactic
I've seen no evidence that these guys know what "straw man" means.

Those equating the devolving approval processes like those at the FDA to no approval process whatsoever, further stretching that stupid argument to total anarchy, is a straw man argument.

Not surprising you're so facile-minded as to not be able to recognize that.

Facile-minded propositions deserve assidious consideration?
You can spend your time that way if you choose.

Or you can show me where it is working well.

 

[nodoginnafight]

The REAL problem behind Libertarianism anarchism, and anarcho-_________ (fill in the blank with anything) is that it is, at its core, a utopian fantasy of "the way things ought to be" that quickly crumbles in the real world.

That's WHY you don't see it working anywhere. You may see some locales that dabble with some of the ideas for a short time before people who were stupid enough to actually try it, realize their mistake and reverse coarse. None of these political philosophies have ever survived on even a medium-sized scale for any length of time.

Examples?

EXACTLY!!! Show me examples of where these political ideas have worked.

 

[Oddball]

The REAL problem behind Libertarianism anarchism, and anarcho-_________ (fill in the blank with anything) is that it is, at its core, a utopian fantasy of "the way things ought to be" that quickly crumbles in the real world.

That's WHY you don't see it working anywhere. You may see some locales that dabble with some of the ideas for a short time before people who were stupid enough to actually try it, realize their mistake and reverse coarse. None of these political philosophies have ever survived on even a medium-sized scale for any length of time.

Examples?

EXACTLY!!! Show me examples of where these political ideas have worked.

America, for it's first 150 years.

 

[Oddball]

Ahhh create a straw man to claim "straw man"... interesting tactic
I've seen no evidence that these guys know what "straw man" means.

Those equating the devolving approval processes like those at the FDA to no approval process whatsoever, further stretching that stupid argument to total anarchy, is a straw man argument.

Not surprising you're so facile-minded as to not be able to recognize that.

Facile-minded propositions deserve assidious consideration?
You can spend your time that way if you choose.

Or you can show me where it is working well.

Well, you seem to believe so.

 

[bripat9643]

That..and no nation has ever been started by a corporation.

Corporations are entirely the function of people seeking profit.

Not the common good.

Those who claim they are interested in serving the common good are almost always scumbags trying to fleece you. Of course no corporation has ever started a nation. That requires the use of force against innocent people. That's the beauty of corporations, they are entirely voluntary organizations. As oppose to governments which are founded on looting, extortion and plunder.

 

[bripat9643]

Caveat Emptor ???
No thanks.
Good way to crash the economy.

Lot of folks here need a refresher on History 101.

How does Caveat Emptor crash the economy?

I love the way liberals think they can just regurgitate some magic words they don't understand, and that wins the debate for them.

Try the U.S. Stock Market of October 29, 1929 for starters. Caveat Emptor gone wild.

Nope. That was caused by the federal reserve inflating credit, just like the current recession.

 

[midcan5]

So the rights of people are summed up as protection against harm. Given that, government has failed at Columbine, Colorado, Newton, et al, and since 28 children have died since Newton from guns, it must follow that government must ban all guns. Otherwise how is it government will protect the children?

Some will say everyone should be armed, if a definition of an uncivilized society existed, it would have to include a society in which people feared each other so much they were all armed. Of course I see that that simpleton Ayn Rand has managed the mind of the OP's thoughts. Rand ended up on government assistance, what a example huh. I guess altruism has many definitions when you are a simpleton.

Whittaker Chambers 1957 Review of Ayn Rand

"... Out of a lifetime of reading, I can recall no other book in which a tone of overriding arrogance was so implacably sustained. Its shrillness is without reprieve. Its dogmatism is without appeal. In addition, the mind, which finds this one natural to it, shares other characteristics of its type. 1) It consistently mistakes raw force for strength, and the rawer the force, the more reverent the posture of the mind before it. 2) It supposes itself to be the bringer of a final revelation. Therefore, resistance to the Message cannot be tolerated because disagreement can never be merely honest, prudent or just humanly fallible. Dissent from revelation so final (because, the author would say, so reasonable) can only be willfully wicked. There are ways of dealing with such wickedness, and, in fact, right reason itself enjoins them. From almost any page of Atlas Shrugged, a voice can be heard, from painful necessity, commanding: " To the gas chambers — go!" The same inflexibly self-righteous stance results, too (in the total absence of any saving humor), in odd extravagances of inflection and gesture — that Dollar Sign, for example. At first, we try to tell ourselves that these are just lapses, that this mind has, somehow, mislaid the discriminating knack that most of us pray will warn us in time of the differences between what is effective and firm, and what is wildly grotesque and excessive. Soon we suspect something worse. We suspect that this mind finds, precisely in extravagance, some exalting merit; feels a surging release of power and passion precisely in smashing up the house. A tornado might feel this way, or Carrie Nation.

We struggle to be just. For we cannot help feel at least a sympathetic pain before the sheer labor, discipline and patient craftsmanship that went to making this mountain of words. But the words keep shouting us down. In the end that tone dominates. But it should be its own antidote, warning us that anything it shouts is best taken with the usual reservations with which we might sip a patent medicine. Some may like the flavor. In any case, the brew is probably without lasting ill effects. But it is not a cure for anything. Nor would we, ordinarily, place much confidence in the diagnosis of a doctor who supposes that the Hippocratic Oath is a kind of curse." http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2705853/posts

George Washington on government: "The unity of Government, which constitutes you one people, is also now dear to you. It is justly so; for it is a main pillar in the edifice of your real independence, the support of your tranquillity at home, your peace abroad; of your safety; of your prosperity; of that very Liberty, which you so highly prize. But as it is easy to foresee, that, from different causes and from different quarters, much pains will be taken, many artifices employed, to weaken in your minds the conviction of this truth; as this is the point in your political fortress against which the batteries of internal and external enemies will be most constantly and actively (though often covertly and insidiously) directed, it is of infinite moment, that you should properly estimate the immense value of your national Union to your collective and individual happiness; that you should cherish a cordial, habitual, and immovable attachment to it; accustoming yourselves to think and speak of it as of the Palladium of your political safety and prosperity; watching for its preservation with jealous anxiety; discountenancing whatever may suggest even a suspicion, that it can in any event be abandoned; and indignantly frowning upon the first dawning of every attempt to alienate any portion of our country from the rest, or to enfeeble the sacred ties which now link together the various parts." Quote DB :: Speeches :: George Washington :: George Washington's Farewell Address Speech

 

[bripat9643]

The REAL problem behind Libertarianism anarchism, and anarcho-_________ (fill in the blank with anything) is that it is, at its core, a utopian fantasy of "the way things ought to be" that quickly crumbles in the real world.

That's WHY you don't see it working anywhere. You may see some locales that dabble with some of the ideas for a short time before people who were stupid enough to actually try it, realize their mistake and reverse coarse. None of these political philosophies have ever survived on even a medium-sized scale for any length of time.

Examples?

EXACTLY!!! Show me examples of where these political ideas have worked.

show me where they have been tried and not worked. You made the claim. Now support it.

 

[bripat9643]

So the rights of people are summed up as protection against harm.

Wrong. The rest of your screed can be ignored since it's all based on this premise, which is pure bullshit.

 

[Sallow]

Ahh...The stale old anarchy straw man...Right on schedule...

Right on schedule what?

You folks love all the products of a civil, well organized society..but hate the people that make that possible.

It's kinda like loving cake and hating the baker.

 

[BlindBoo]

What evidence do you have that the FDA improved food quality or drug safety? One thing is certain, the FDA has vastly reduced the number of life-saving drugs available on the market. Thousands of people have died waiting for the FDA to approve numerous life-saving drugs.

The scandal you refer to involved the United States Army, another branch of government. So I fail to see what relevance it has to marketing food in the private market.

The case that brought the FDA into existance for starters. Some doctor was supending cough surp in anti-freeze. It worked, that is the medicine stayed in solution, but it killed several kids too.

Cough Syrup, Dead Children, and the Case for Regulation | Speakeasy Science

The FDA already existed at the time, so it seems your "solution" didn't prevent the tragedy. There are still cases of doctors using unapproved treatments that kill their patients.

The incident was the catalyst for the 1938 act.

1933-38
The petty regulatory dictatorship rolls up its sleeves and gets to
work. FDA recommends a complete revision of the "obsolete" 1906
Food and Drugs Act. A five-year legislative battle ensues. In 1937,
an elixir of sulfanilamide contining a poisonous solvent kills 107
persons, mostly children, dramatizing the need to establish drug
safety before marketing and to enact the pending food and drug law.

1938
THE FEDERAL FOOD, DRUG, AND COSMETIC (FDC) ACT replaces the 1906
act. It contains new provisions extending control to cosmetics and
therapeutic devices; requiring new drugs to be shown safe before
marketing--starting a new system of drug regulation;

A Brief History of the FDA

 

[bripat9643]

Ahh...The stale old anarchy straw man...Right on schedule...

Right on schedule what?

You folks love all the products of a civil, well organized society..but hate the people that make that possible.

It's kinda like loving cake and hating the baker.

The department of agriculture makes a "civil, well organized society" possible?

 

[bripat9643]

The case that brought the FDA into existance for starters. Some doctor was supending cough surp in anti-freeze. It worked, that is the medicine stayed in solution, but it killed several kids too.

Cough Syrup, Dead Children, and the Case for Regulation | Speakeasy Science

The FDA already existed at the time, so it seems your "solution" didn't prevent the tragedy. There are still cases of doctors using unapproved treatments that kill their patients.

The incident was the catalyst for the 1938 act.

1933-38
The petty regulatory dictatorship rolls up its sleeves and gets to
work. FDA recommends a complete revision of the "obsolete" 1906
Food and Drugs Act. A five-year legislative battle ensues. In 1937,
an elixir of sulfanilamide contining a poisonous solvent kills 107
persons, mostly children, dramatizing the need to establish drug
safety before marketing and to enact the pending food and drug law.

1938
THE FEDERAL FOOD, DRUG, AND COSMETIC (FDC) ACT replaces the 1906
act. It contains new provisions extending control to cosmetics and
therapeutic devices; requiring new drugs to be shown safe before
marketing--starting a new system of drug regulation;

A Brief History of the FDA

Unfortunately it didn't work. Unsafe drugs are still approved by the FDA all the time. Take Thalidomide and Fen Phen, for instance. In the process, many life saving drugs are held off the market for years while thousands of people die.

 

[Oddball]

Ahh...The stale old anarchy straw man...Right on schedule...

Right on schedule what?

You folks love all the products of a civil, well organized society..but hate the people that make that possible.

It's kinda like loving cake and hating the baker.

The DHS, TSA, BATF, DEA, IRS, FDA, and the rest of the alphabet soup mob make America a "civil, well organized society"?!?!??

Oh, Priscilla!

 

[bripat9643]

Ahh...The stale old anarchy straw man...Right on schedule...

Right on schedule what?

You folks love all the products of a civil, well organized society..but hate the people that make that possible.

It's kinda like loving cake and hating the baker.

The DHS, TSA, BATF, DEA, IRS, FDA, and the rest of the alphabet soup mob make America a "civil, well organized society"?!?!??

Oh, Priscilla!

Society didn't exist before the creation of the Department of Agriculture, don't ya know.

 

[Sallow]

Ahh...The stale old anarchy straw man...Right on schedule...

Right on schedule what?

You folks love all the products of a civil, well organized society..but hate the people that make that possible.

It's kinda like loving cake and hating the baker.

The department of agriculture makes a "civil, well organized society" possible?

Yep

 

[Sallow]

Ahh...The stale old anarchy straw man...Right on schedule...

Right on schedule what?

You folks love all the products of a civil, well organized society..but hate the people that make that possible.

It's kinda like loving cake and hating the baker.

The DHS, TSA, BATF, DEA, IRS, FDA, and the rest of the alphabet soup mob make America a "civil, well organized society"?!?!??

Oh, Priscilla!

They do.

 

[bripat9643]

Right on schedule what?

You folks love all the products of a civil, well organized society..but hate the people that make that possible.

It's kinda like loving cake and hating the baker.

The department of agriculture makes a "civil, well organized society" possible?

Yep

So we didn't have a "civil, well organized society" before the Department of Agriculture was created?