The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[pioneerpete]

Over 100,000 black men have been murdered in the last decade. 93% of their killers were...........Black. Yet this case somehow has racial implications. Blacks kill more blacks than people who check "white Hispanic" or any other race box every year by a blowout margin. Where is MSM/liberals on these trials?

 

[Luissa]

And MSM isn't the only one saying he is white. Isn't the Daily Beast mostly conservative?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...nd-the-messy-nature-of-american-identity.html

 

[Vox]

I never said there was a white hispanic race, I stated that is a racial category according to the government.
I also stated that white is a race and hispanic is an ethnic group about ten times now.
And FYI I don't ever follow MSM.
Do you watch Fox?

so why do you defend their lies?

Why do you lie about them making up the term?

I do not lie - they made up the term - there is NO SUCH CATEGORY AS WHITE HISPANIC RACE - according to US government - the links to the rules of 2010 census prove that and it has been posted her by myself and other user.

Why do you lie in defense of MSM?

The U.S. Census
Bureau collects race and Hispanic
origin information following the
guidance of the U.S. Office of
Management and Budget’s (OMB)
1997 Revisions to the Standards
for the Classification of Federal
Data on Race and Ethnicity.2 These
federal standards mandate that
race and Hispanic origin (ethnicity)
are separate and distinct conceptsand that when collecting these data
via self-identification, two different
questions must be used.

http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-02.pdf

 

[Trajan]

So the "graffiti" charge was because Trayvon wrote "WTF" on a locker? Lord people!

Where are the ties to an actual gang....surely the police after all of these thug like actions would have a gang tie or suspicion, right? Bloods, Crips, Best Friends...any ties to any Miami street gangs in the area? Anything? Thats what I want to see. Not that some kid wrote "wtf" on a locker, or some suspicious things in a backpack, or empty bag that contained weed. Give me something solid to confirm that he had gang ties of some sort.

A gang angle from my perspective does not matter......*shrugs*

I will say though that if zimmermans past as in having taken a class where in he learned of the stand your ground rule, is supposed to mean something ( I would suggest the inference by the prosecution is clearly, this may speak to premeditation in that Zimmerman knew how to lie and make it appear he was the 'victim') zimmermans legal team has the right to defend him, where in trayvons past ala burglar tools 12 pieces of womans jewelry matter as well, so if trayvon as zimmerman said, was acting suspiciously, they ought to be able to flesh that out- in that trayvon was found with a dozen pieces of jewelry which certainly did not belong to him, a tool described by law enforcement as a 'burglars tool', the graffiti, etc. the question being- how do we know trayvon wasn't casing the place, justifying Zimmermans original intent/actions to watch and follow?

I would submit that IF say zimmerman had only wounded trayvon and they found themselves in court for that event, it would almost certainly be allowed to be heard. Trayvon is dead, its a tragedy agreed, but that really should not mean anything in this context.

 

[Vox]

And MSM isn't the only one saying he is white. Isn't the Daily Beast mostly conservative?

George Zimmerman, Hispanics, and the Messy Nature of American Identity - The Daily Beast

why do YOU lie in defense of the media?

 

[Trajan]

The case is also not about Trayvon Martin's prior brushes with the law or with the school officials.

If (only if) Trayvon had a history of violence tht GZ KNEW about at the time of the confrontation would TM's ALLEGED "past" matter.

He was a kid. He is dead. It is nothing less than a damn tragedy. And given the fact that his minor past has nothing to do with the case, it is kind of churlish and unseemly to keep bringing it up.

The case is about really just one major thing: when GZ shot TM, did GZ reasonably believe in that moment that he (GZ) was in danger in danger of dying or that he was in danger of suffering serious physical injury.

it goes to character and behaviors...if zimmerman can be cast as a 'wanna be cop', well?

 

[Ernie S.]

No one has said gang ties, but it's apparent that he was cultivating a "gangsta" image. Or was the "Creepy white crackah" remark the way good kids refer to a white man?

 

[Zona]

The case is also not about Trayvon Martin's prior brushes with the law or with the school officials.

If (only if) Trayvon had a history of violence tht GZ KNEW about at the time of the confrontation would TM's ALLEGED "past" matter.

He was a kid. He is dead. It is nothing less than a damn tragedy. And given the fact that his minor past has nothing to do with the case, it is kind of churlish and unseemly to keep bringing it up.

The case is about really just one major thing: when GZ shot TM, did GZ reasonably believe in that moment that he (GZ) was in danger in danger of dying or that he was in danger of suffering serious physical injury.

Who the hell posted this for you?

 

[Sarah G]

You only think they've been dicks because the prosecution is getting their asses kicked.

No, they have had two horrid witnesses but the jury can figure things out. The Defense had a horrible opening statement, do you think it lost the case for them? I trust the jury to take all of it into consideration.

Actually, Bao did ok once the jury came back. We'll see. I'm hopeful.

A horrid opening statement? You really think the jury will convict based on a knock knock joke that fell flat?
Bao was a disaster and you KNOW the jury will interpret the long delay with something regarding his testimony.

I really see very few points scored for the prosecution. The defense managed to turn most into their own witnesses and explained what forensic evidence was presented in a way that bolsters their case. So far, the most compelling witness we've heard has been uncle Jorge, the Command Sergeant Major. You apparently have no idea what a CSM is, but what it means is he was one of a small group of the most elite non commissioned officers in the entire Army. That does not come without an unparalleled reputation.

Maybe you don't remember that opening by West. He rambled on so much, O'Mara had to tell him to wrap it up. He did a terrible job and was made even worse by contrast to the Prosecution, John Guy, who had a compelling open and has been WONDERFUL throughout. He alone should have been running this.

I don't care about Jorge more than I do about Trayvon's college educated Mom and Step Dad who were both very hard working and both loving parents. Jorge isn't any better than they are. In fact he is related to a murderer so he should have kept his reputation in tact and stayed home.

 

[Luissa]

And MSM isn't the only one saying he is white. Isn't the Daily Beast mostly conservative?

George Zimmerman, Hispanics, and the Messy Nature of American Identity - The Daily Beast

why do YOU lie in defense of the media?

What am I lying about? Paulitcian claimed MSM made up the term, they did not. For one the Times used it before they did.
I find it funny you keep trying to lie and say I am defending the media. For one, usually it's the other way around. Lol
Second, all I am pointing out is Paulitcian lied when claiming they made up the term, which you also backed up. They did not make up the term. Please point out where I have defended them in any other way? Or were you lying?

http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/e...hite-hispanic/2012/03/28/gIQAW6fngS_blog.html

 

[Luissa]

so why do you defend their lies?

Why do you lie about them making up the term?

I do not lie - they made up the term - there is NO SUCH CATEGORY AS WHITE HISPANIC RACE - according to US government - the links to the rules of 2010 census prove that and it has been posted her by myself and other user.

Why do you lie in defense of MSM?

The U.S. Census
Bureau collects race and Hispanic
origin information following the
guidance of the U.S. Office of
Management and Budget’s (OMB)
1997 Revisions to the Standards
for the Classification of Federal
Data on Race and Ethnicity.2 These
federal standards mandate that
race and Hispanic origin (ethnicity)
are separate and distinct conceptsand that when collecting these data
via self-identification, two different
questions must be used.

http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-02.pdf

Show me how and when they made up the term? And that they were the first to use the term.

I will be waiting.

 

[25Caliber]

The case is also not about Trayvon Martin's prior brushes with the law or with the school officials.

If (only if) Trayvon had a history of violence tht GZ KNEW about at the time of the confrontation would TM's ALLEGED "past" matter.

He was a kid. He is dead. It is nothing less than a damn tragedy. And given the fact that his minor past has nothing to do with the case, it is kind of churlish and unseemly to keep bringing it up.

The case is about really just one major thing: when GZ shot TM, did GZ reasonably believe in that moment that he (GZ) was in danger in danger of dying or that he was in danger of suffering serious physical injury.

Intelligent post...and youre right.

The thing is... if someone walks up and punches me in the nose, I am in immediate fear of serious injury...after all I was just punched and my nose is probably broken...at that moment should I be thinking about pulling my pistol and shooting to defend myself? I think its difficult to prove what was or was not going through someone's mind after they have been punched and someone is on top of them in a dominant position....this is what concerns me about the law. Should I make sure I have my gun with me the next time i visit a bar just in case a scuffle breaks out?

But I see the other side also, where how long does a person have to receive damage before they are legally able to stop the attack...If they are only able to grab the gun to defend themselves? I certainly dont expect them to wait until they are dead.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

The case is also not about Trayvon Martin's prior brushes with the law or with the school officials.

If (only if) Trayvon had a history of violence tht GZ KNEW about at the time of the confrontation would TM's ALLEGED "past" matter.

He was a kid. He is dead. It is nothing less than a damn tragedy. And given the fact that his minor past has nothing to do with the case, it is kind of churlish and unseemly to keep bringing it up.

The case is about really just one major thing: when GZ shot TM, did GZ reasonably believe in that moment that he (GZ) was in danger in danger of dying or that he was in danger of suffering serious physical injury.

it goes to character and behaviors...if zimmerman can be cast as a 'wanna be cop', well?

In actual fact, GZ might have wanted to be a cop.

Indeed, we also now see he wanted to be a prosecutor.

Can't wait for the prosecutor to piss on him for THAT.

But none of that makes TM's brushes with the law (or close brushes with entities akin to the law) relevant to the case. TM is not on trial, being dead.

Again, it would be relevant if he had some tendency towards violence AND IF GZ knew that trait at the time of their unfortunate contact with each other. Beyond that, it has nothing I can see that has anything to do with the trial.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

The case is also not about Trayvon Martin's prior brushes with the law or with the school officials.

If (only if) Trayvon had a history of violence tht GZ KNEW about at the time of the confrontation would TM's ALLEGED "past" matter.

He was a kid. He is dead. It is nothing less than a damn tragedy. And given the fact that his minor past has nothing to do with the case, it is kind of churlish and unseemly to keep bringing it up.

The case is about really just one major thing: when GZ shot TM, did GZ reasonably believe in that moment that he (GZ) was in danger in danger of dying or that he was in danger of suffering serious physical injury.

Who the hell posted this for you?

That would be me.

Unlike you, I don't let the irrelevant cloud the issues.

 

[Vox]

And MSM isn't the only one saying he is white. Isn't the Daily Beast mostly conservative?

George Zimmerman, Hispanics, and the Messy Nature of American Identity - The Daily Beast

why do YOU lie in defense of the media?

What am I lying about? Paulitcian claimed MSM made up the term, they did not. For one the Times used it before they did.
I find it funny you keep trying to lie and say I am defending the media. For one, usually it's the other way around. Lol
Second, all I am pointing out is Paulitcian lied when claiming they made up the term, which you also backed up. They did not make up the term. Please point out where I have defended them in any other way? Or were you lying?

Washington Post

They DID make up the term.

There is no such thing as white hispanic race and US government in it's official documents precisely said - those are TWO different things and two differnet questions in different sections are used to ask them.
You stated above that in your state applications there was such thing yourself - on the previous page - and that is a LIE.
I understand, you might have forgotten it was 2 different questions in 2 different sections - and that is exactly what MSM is counting on fabricationg the term which is a LIE.
So why are you defending their LIES?

And why do you continue to LIE here you are not defending them as you clearly ARE?

 

[Luissa]

why do YOU lie in defense of the media?

What am I lying about? Paulitcian claimed MSM made up the term, they did not. For one the Times used it before they did.
I find it funny you keep trying to lie and say I am defending the media. For one, usually it's the other way around. Lol
Second, all I am pointing out is Paulitcian lied when claiming they made up the term, which you also backed up. They did not make up the term. Please point out where I have defended them in any other way? Or were you lying?

Washington Post

They DID make up the term.

There is no such thing as white hispanic race and US government in it's official documents precisely said - those are TWO different things and two differnet questions in different sections are used to ask them.
You stated above that in your state applications there was such thing yourself - on the previous page - and that is a LIE.
I understand, you might have forgotten it was 2 different questions in 2 different sections - and that is exactly what MSM is counting on fabricationg the term which is a LIE.
So why are you defending their LIES?

And why do you continue to LIE here you are not defending them as you clearly ARE?

Show me where they made up the term.

 

[Vox]

Why do you lie about them making up the term?

I do not lie - they made up the term - there is NO SUCH CATEGORY AS WHITE HISPANIC RACE - according to US government - the links to the rules of 2010 census prove that and it has been posted her by myself and other user.

Why do you lie in defense of MSM?

http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-02.pdf

Show me how and when they made up the term? And that they were the first to use the term.

I will be waiting.

playing dumb now, when cornered?

there is no such thing as white hispanic race invented by MSM mixing ethnicity and race into RACE.

 

[Sarah G]

This judge has certainly given all the breaks to the prosecution and almost none to the defense. That has become increasingly obvious. Deliberate or due to bias? Who knows. But if appearances count for anything, then yes, she is favoring the Martin side, perhaps to protect herself from the predictable public reaction if there is an acquittal? Or I can also accept Ilar's take on it.

The Defense is not really that good. You all would like to think they are but West for instance will stand and object to something giving some rambling reason and not a law.

He rambles on a lot as a matter of fact. His opening went on and on, he asks things over and over. It isn't the fault of the witness if he can't form a direct question. O'Mara is just an asshole. If Zimmerman goes to jail, it's partially their fault.

I rather think you are either watching a different trial or you long ago gave up any objectivity whatsoever re this one. I have not only been watching the trial and, while I claim no expertise whatsoever in criminal law, I have spent a LOT of hours watching trials. And in my opinion, despite a shaky start that nobody thought smart, the defense has since done a great job. And the lawyer types who are also watching and commenting on the process also agree that the defense has done superbly.

Yeah, they screwed up a few minutes of the opening remarks, but ended them effectively. They kept Trayvon's mother on the stand too long. But otherwise, I haven't seen much to gig them on.

The prosecution, on the other hand, day after day seemed to be making the defense's case for them.

In your opinion. You need to qualify this stuff, I've also been watching and am relaying what I have seen. It's telling when you all don't give the prosecution even a little credit. Childish too. I tend to dismiss that kind of commentary.

Please don't say I have done that for the prosecution, I haven't.

 

[Luissa]

I do not lie - they made up the term - there is NO SUCH CATEGORY AS WHITE HISPANIC RACE - according to US government - the links to the rules of 2010 census prove that and it has been posted her by myself and other user.

Why do you lie in defense of MSM?

Show me how and when they made up the term? And that they were the first to use the term.

I will be waiting.

playing dumb now, when cornered?

there is no such thing as white hispanic race invented by MSM mixing ethnicity and race into RACE.

Show me where they made up the term, like you claimed.
How am I cornered?
I stated they did not make up the term, you stated they did and lied. Back up your claim.
Playing dumb when cornered?

 

[IlarMeilyr]

Sarah, dear lass: you are not even remotely objective.

If you were, even you would have to see and admit how badly the prosecution fucked the State's alleged "case."