The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[Rat in the Hat]

No. Like punching George Zimmerman in the nose and jumping on top and raining down blows "MMA style". Had Martin simply had the sense to come in out of the rain, he'd be alive. What part of that is so hard for you to grasp?

Do we need to get Dee Dee to translate for you?

Again.

Zimmerman pursued Martin. He caught up to Martin.

At that point, it was a fight or flight situation.

By Zimmerman's own account, Martin asked him if he had a problem.

I don't believe that account by the way.

And it could have been Zimmerman who struck the first blow.

Small itsy problem with that. Not a mark on the ME report except the finger and the gunshot wound.

Maybe when George struck the first blow, he punched Martin in the finger?

 

[Cuyo]

No. Like punching George Zimmerman in the nose and jumping on top and raining down blows "MMA style". Had Martin simply had the sense to come in out of the rain, he'd be alive. What part of that is so hard for you to grasp?

Do we need to get Dee Dee to translate for you?

Again.

Zimmerman pursued Martin. He caught up to Martin.

At that point, it was a fight or flight situation.

By Zimmerman's own account, Martin asked him if he had a problem.

I don't believe that account by the way.

And it could have been Zimmerman who struck the first blow.

Small itsy problem with that. Not a mark on the ME report except the finger and the gunshot wound.

He could have thrown a happy haymaker and missed utterly; Good as a landed shot from a legal standpoint.

I don't think that's the case; However I do feel that he's ultimately responsible for the fight.

 

[testarosa]

Again.

Zimmerman pursued Martin. He caught up to Martin.

At that point, it was a fight or flight situation.

By Zimmerman's own account, Martin asked him if he had a problem.

I don't believe that account by the way.

And it could have been Zimmerman who struck the first blow.

Small itsy problem with that. Not a mark on the ME report except the finger and the gunshot wound.

He could have thrown a happy haymaker and missed utterly; Good as a landed shot from a legal standpoint.

I don't think that's the case; However I do feel that he's ultimately responsible for the fight.

couldashouldawoulda
ifififififififififififififififififif

 

[Cuyo]

Probably not.

Racism is a very difficult thing to overcome. Couple that with the "holy" gun and there you go.

Well to Ernie's defense, his issue may be old guys verses younger guys.. or based on the the lack of video and / or decent witnesses for the prosecution in the TM case. Have to remember we don't have a video like this bus showing zimmerman's face as he cursed about Trayvon and gave chase and reached for his "phone" at the start of the conversation.

You don't suppose he could have actually been reaching for his phone, do you? He was very likely going to call dispatch to inform responding officers of his location and his contact with the subject.

But you are convinced that he was reaching for his gun without regard to logic and Zimmerman's account.

Highly unlikely IMO, but again irrelevant nonetheless.

A crazy guy's been following me and now he's reaching in his pocket... This may be my only chance.

 

[Ernie S.]

Probably not.

Racism is a very difficult thing to overcome. Couple that with the "holy" gun and there you go.

Well to Ernie's defense, his issue may be old guys verses younger guys.. or based on the the lack of video and / or decent witnesses for the prosecution in the TM case. Have to remember we don't have a video like this bus showing zimmerman's face as he cursed about Trayvon and gave chase and reached for his "phone" at the start of the conversation.

Ernie's a decent guy.

I have no personal problems with him.

Probably would buy him a beer if he was in a bar.

I'd take a coffee for sure, but I haven't had a beer in 25 years.

Yes, I think we could have a decent conversation, especially now that you know I am always armed.

 

[Sallow]

The evidence that he confronted George is in, that he was punching George is and that George had a gun is in and that Travon is dead is most certainly in. So
Your assertion that " if Travyon was the thug he's being made to be, Zimmerman would be dead today" is remarkably dim witted.

Yes the defense has not actually begun yet...my last line was just a reminder of what's already common knowledge for those following the case.

Well actually no.

That's George's first story..when he told police he got out of the car to check the address and was hit from behind.

That didn't quite jibe with the 911 tape or the proximity of where body was found so Zimmerman told a couple of other stories..

And wound up with Martin asking him "What's your problem"..

Sort of a deviation..eh?

He had just killed a kid. I don't know about you, but I would be pretty emotional at that point. Suppose YOU explain for us the evolution of Dee Dee's story, OK?

Who's Dee Dee?

And lets go back to the testimony.

He was completely composed after shooting Martin.

Like he just squashed a bug.

He rolled Martin on to his belly and was trying to restrain him.

He also had the presence of mind to formulate his own defense, almost immediately.

And if you see the video of him walking into the police station, he does so casually.

Nothing about this guy shows any remorse. That's unusual given he's killed an innocent kid.

 

[RKMBrown]

First, the black guy struck first.

Second, the white guy stopped hitting him once he was down.

Had he continued to wail on the black guy after he was down, and no one was stopping him...and the black guy believed he was in danger of death or grievous bodily harm, he would have been within his rights to use lethal force to stop the attack.

But it didn't come to that...white guy ended the threat to himself, and walked away.

Had Martin done that, he would be alive today.

"struck first" chest poke at best.. yeah the black guy pushed him .. just as Zimmerman pushed Trayvon by chasing and chasing and chasing then reaching for his pocket when asked who he is why he's following him..

The white guy stopped hitting him probably because there were witnesses, because he probably had bad knees, and also because he's probably a better man than either Zimmerman or Trayvon. BS that gang banger did not pull a gun probably because he didn't have one and/or because there were witnesses.

There are no facts here, just emotion and speculation.

Look at the diagram of the scene...there was no "chasing and chasing and chasing"...that's a figment of your imagination.

"The white guy stopped probably stopped because..." more speculation and imagination.

He stopped...that is a fact...you should learn to recognize them.

Here are some examples:

Marin did not stop until he was forcibly stopped.

Another fact.

Following someone does not justify a physical attack.

Another fact.

Reaching for a cellphone after saying you don't have a problem is not just cause for being physically attacked.

These are the facts.

Now, show me your FACTS.

Not your feelings.

Not your speculations.

Not your overactive imaginings.

Just the facts.

The facts are a 17year old boy went to the store bought some skittles got caught by rain on the way back. Was pursued by Zimmerman. Zimmerman calls the police the recording is made. Zimmerman admits to pursuit on the recording. With the police on the way Zimmerman maintains pursuit. Zimmerman had previously stated on the recording that "they always get away." Zimmerman is confronted and questioned, ok sure... says "I don't have a problem" and reaches for his pocket. Trayvon, in response to the reach to the pocket and the statement "I don't have a problem," proceeds to fighting Trayvon. At one point we have a witness say that the guy on the bottom Zimmerman is moving the wrestling match to the concrete at which point the fight gets serious with Zimmerman crying for help and TM besting the guy on the bottom about 8-10sec of beating. Then something happens and TM is dead with a gun shot wound to the chest.

The facts are Zimmerman is on trial for the killing. The fact are Zimmerman admits to the killing. The facts are Zimmerman believes it was self defense. The facts are the state went from self defense, to wanting to try him for involuntary manslaughter, to trying him for 2nd degree murder.

The facts are Zimmerman knew he should not purse or confront, eyes and ears only. The fact are Zimmerman had not pursued in prior cases. Many of which they did get away.

 

[Ernie S.]

Exactly.

Give this man a cigar.

Except that you still mistakenly believe that George Zimmerman was the aggressor.

Why do you believe Zimmerman's pursuit was "passive" and the pursuit by the guy in this bus was "aggression?" In this video on the bus both are being aggressive, the old man smartly tries to diffuse by walking away, but then he turns to taunt by saying something like I'll beat the shit out of you.. then the wannabe pursues. They are both the aggressor right up to the point where the wannabe curls up in the fetal position while the old man is beating on him. Just like the trial where GZ is just laying there getting his ass beat crying out for help.

Zimmerman followed to observe, not to confront or attack. Martin was aggressive Zimmerman was, shall I say, actively passive?

 

[Cuyo]

Small itsy problem with that. Not a mark on the ME report except the finger and the gunshot wound.

He could have thrown a happy haymaker and missed utterly; Good as a landed shot from a legal standpoint.

I don't think that's the case; However I do feel that he's ultimately responsible for the fight.

couldashouldawoulda
ifififififififififififififififififif

Riiight... So there's two aspects to this case... What we know, and what we're trying to reconstruct.

What we know is devastating to the defense.

What we're trying to reconstruct, eh, don't look so good either.

 

[Sallow]

Well to Ernie's defense, his issue may be old guys verses younger guys.. or based on the the lack of video and / or decent witnesses for the prosecution in the TM case. Have to remember we don't have a video like this bus showing zimmerman's face as he cursed about Trayvon and gave chase and reached for his "phone" at the start of the conversation.

Ernie's a decent guy.

I have no personal problems with him.

Probably would buy him a beer if he was in a bar.

I'd take a coffee for sure, but I haven't had a beer in 25 years.

Yes, I think we could have a decent conversation, especially now that you know I am always armed.

On a side note..a friend of mine came into my apartment recently and told me he was packing.

I made him leave the apartment and put the gun in the laundry room.

I don't tolerate guns in my house.

 

[testarosa]

Well actually no.

That's George's first story..when he told police he got out of the car to check the address and was hit from behind.

That didn't quite jibe with the 911 tape or the proximity of where body was found so Zimmerman told a couple of other stories..

And wound up with Martin asking him "What's your problem"..

Sort of a deviation..eh?

He had just killed a kid. I don't know about you, but I would be pretty emotional at that point. Suppose YOU explain for us the evolution of Dee Dee's story, OK?

Who's Dee Dee?

And lets go back to the testimony.

He was completely composed after shooting Martin.

Like he just squashed a bug.

He rolled Martin on to his belly and was trying to restrain him.

He also had the presence of mind to formulate his own defense, almost immediately.

And if you see the video of him walking into the police station, he does so casually.

Nothing about this guy shows any remorse. That's unusual given he's killed an innocent kid.

He rolled Martin on to his belly and was trying to restrain him.

Go get your facts straight.

 

[RKMBrown]

Well to Ernie's defense, his issue may be old guys verses younger guys.. or based on the the lack of video and / or decent witnesses for the prosecution in the TM case. Have to remember we don't have a video like this bus showing zimmerman's face as he cursed about Trayvon and gave chase and reached for his "phone" at the start of the conversation.

Ernie's a decent guy.

I have no personal problems with him.

Probably would buy him a beer if he was in a bar.

I'd take a coffee for sure, but I haven't had a beer in 25 years.

Yes, I think we could have a decent conversation, especially now that you know I am always armed.

He he .. first rounds on me for both of you. This is not personal, rather it is a good chance to consider through introspection, what would I do in this situation. How would I feel if this was my boy with the skittles. Or my boy with the CC working NW. I was brought up by southern white parents. I've seen plenty of racism in my life, from the South Florida race riots of the 70s to conversations at the hunting cabin in the GA mountains about head bashing runs in the Atlanta race wars of the 60s. I recognize that I was raised in different times, transformational times, and that the light bulb moment that we all have some basic racist tendencies we have to fight, does not happen for everyone.

 

[testarosa]

He could have thrown a happy haymaker and missed utterly; Good as a landed shot from a legal standpoint.

I don't think that's the case; However I do feel that he's ultimately responsible for the fight.

couldashouldawoulda
ifififififififififififififififififif

Riiight... So there's two aspects to this case... What we know, and what we're trying to reconstruct.

What we know is devastating to the defense.

What we're trying to reconstruct, eh, don't look so good either.

a) you must not have been paying attention to the testimony
b) "what we're trying to reconstruct"

what we're making up

There I fixed it.

 

[Ernie S.]

I am in the Neighborhood Watch, and I'm calling 911 right now.



Did I do that right, Trayvon defenders???

Why yes..you did.

You crazy ass cracker.

You crazy ass cracka

Fixed it again.

I believe you left off the "H" Proper spelling is "crackah"

 

[testarosa]

Why yes..you did.

You crazy ass cracker.

You crazy ass cracka

Fixed it again.

I believe you left off the "H" Proper spelling is "crackah"

My bad. I'm just learning the language.

 

[Cuyo]

couldashouldawoulda
ifififififififififififififififififif

Riiight... So there's two aspects to this case... What we know, and what we're trying to reconstruct.

What we know is devastating to the defense.

What we're trying to reconstruct, eh, don't look so good either.

a) you must not have been paying attention to the testimony
b) "what we're trying to reconstruct"

what we're making up

There I fixed it.

"Making up?" There is only one living witness who knows exactly what happened, and he has a vested interest in making it appear a certain way. You know, liking not being in prison and all.

Why do you take his statements as absolute fact?

 

[asterism]

Fact - Zimmerman has a history of violence. He fought a cop and bravely beat the shit out of his fiancée.

Not true. You have no proof of that. What you might have is proof of an arrest (not a conviction) on Zimmerman resisting arrest with violence. That can mean anything from accidentally kicking a cop or even grabbing his arm. It doesn't mean he "fought a cop" and if he did, there would be a conviction for that. So where is the conviction?

There is no proof he "beat the shit out of his fiancee." There is proof that they both took out mutual restraining orders against each other.

That you have to exaggerate and lie means you know there isn't enough for a conviction in this case.

 

[testarosa]

I'm going to come back later to chat with the people that are actually watching the trial and have a clue as to what the hell is going on. This fantasy, make it up as you go land makes my eyes bleed.

 

[Ernie S.]

Let's see.. bad ass old man walks away from argument with wannabe... Trayvon walks away from wannabe... wannabe pursues makes aggressive move (one wannabe makes sweep with hand at bad ass, the other wannabe makes fumbling reached for "pocket" when questioned)... wannabe gets ass handed to him...

Difference? Wannabe with the gun not happy about loosing the fight, screams for help, and then kills the bad ass in "self defense."

Except nothing in evidence supports your scenario. OK?

Boiled down?

Zimmerman calls the cops. He follows Martin in his car. Checks an address. Martin flees. Zimmerman gets out of car to pursue Martin. At some point he meets Martin. They fight. Zimmerman shoots Martin.

That whole thing took place over the course of 7 minutes.

Yup! Reread the statute. Who assaulted who? Hint: Following a suspicious character by a Neighborhood Watch Coordinator is not "assault".

ETA: Because of all the traffic here and in a couple PM strings I'm involved in, I'm 40 or 50 posts behind. I am going to scan, but not respond until I catch up.

 

[Rat in the Hat]

Interesting fun fact...


This thread has over 4500 posts. The "Official" Zimmerman Trial thread has only 580 posts.



We win!!!