koshergrl
Diamond Member
- Aug 4, 2011
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You're still a saner person than joeb. Much, much saner.
The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread
- Thread starter Truthseeker420
- Start date
- Status
You're still a saner person than joeb. Much, much saner.
[MENTION=26011]Ernie S.[/MENTION] LOL...I did think it over...I thought I cleared it up. You have mentioned it more than once in multiple posts while misspelling both of their names...can I assume you are falling into some subliminal bait?
You are spelling George in the hispanic way Jorge (or horhay)...yet Ive seen no one else spelling it that way. Is this your way of ensuring everyone knows he is in fact hispanic? You say GZ is fine, yet you spell his name Jorge...doesnt make sense...what message are you trying to send?
Spell the names right...think it over. Ill continue to use the shorter versions...sorry if that portrays the wrong image...its just a name and I use it in several ways....sorry if it causes you to envision Trayvon, Treyvon, TM, Martin, Tray in a different light than you are comfortable with.
You are spelling George in the hispanic way Jorge (or horhay)...yet Ive seen no one else spelling it that way. Is this your way of ensuring everyone knows he is in fact hispanic? You say GZ is fine, yet you spell his name Jorge...doesnt make sense...what message are you trying to send?
Spell the names right...think it over. Ill continue to use the shorter versions...sorry if that portrays the wrong image...its just a name and I use it in several ways....sorry if it causes you to envision Trayvon, Treyvon, TM, Martin, Tray in a different light than you are comfortable with.
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Kooshdakhaa
Gold Member
It's because Zimmerman is not telling the truth. Never has been. He's trying to cover his ass. The freaked-out expression on his face in every picture I see tells me that he knows he fucked up and is desperate to get away with it.
You bring up a very good point. Trayvon believed he was being followed because it was being done in a blatant manner. Which is why the kid felt threatened.
Thanks. The thing is...to me there is something desperately wrong on both sides. In the interest of being objective...because frankly, its not much fun taking one side...lol. One side? Booooorinnng. There are mistakes and bad judgment on both sides why not show both?
To me...Tray was being followed in a way that pissed him off...he felt threatened. On the other hand I dont buy the counter argument that Tray was running away scared either. It seems that both sides would love it if that were true...I mean it hits their narrative right on the head.
GZ makes it sound like he was just taking a stroll thru his residency and then a casual stroll up a sidewalk. Nope doesnt make sense, otherwise Tray wouldnt have felt threatened or have been pissed and would have just went back to his house and watched the damn all star game. I dont think Tray was seeking him out initially, I think he thought some strange creep was following him (later with a flashlight in the dark) and it pissed him off...cant say I blame him especially considering the fact that GZ never identified himself or his intentions or suspicions and he had numerous opportunities to do so.
Neither of these scenarios make sense, but I cant get the bias of each side to give an inch and help me figure it out...lol. .
It seems most find it easy to put themselves in GZs position, but what if you are trayvon and you have committed no crime, you are in a strange neighborhood being followed by a strange person you have never met or even seen before? What about what was going through trayvons mind?...What would be going thru your childs mind? Hell, I would have been a little pissed too. Then later he appears to be following you in the direction of where you are staying and using a flashlight in the dark? Pretty creepy if you ask me.
To me, GZ made it obvious that he knew Trayvon thought he was being followed when he told the dispatch "he is running away". That right there is his first indicator that he may not want to pursue any further...after all you have observed no crime and now you have to go up the sidewalk looking with the aid of a flashlight in the dark. You are asking to be surprised...I mean who wants to be followed by someone with a flashlight in the dark? At the very least, GZ should have realized that he had not identified himself and that this strange person running away did not know who he was or why he was being followed. Big mistake...why is that so difficult to see? Nope, all i get is that it wasnt illegal to walk up a sidewalk...lol.
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Ernie S.
Diamond Member
I'll admit I use Jorge to indicate his Hispanic side if you admit you use "Tray to show that you see him as a child. OK? Like I say: I think you are fair and open minded. Probably the most unbiased observer in the thread. I'm only pointing out what I and a couple others have noticed as a means of illustrating what comes across as a perhaps, unconscious bias.
I'm turning in for the night. Sleep well, my friend.
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Oh okay...so you will admit to what you are obviously doing as long as I admit to what you suspect me of doing...lol...sounds like a pretty good deal for you.
Its all good, ernie...you seem like a stand up guy to me. Wasnt trying to portray that image...just a little too lazy to spell it out fully is all. I can see how it would project that image...not my intent.
BTW, he wasnt 12, but he was still a minor @17. Even GZ identified him as someone in his late teens.
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My guess is Trayvon see GZ on the phone and driving slow and following in the car and talking to someone on the phone about him... humans are pretty good at picking up vibes, eyes staring at them from a distance. Given GZ was in a "gangbanger" red jacket not a cop uniform.. Trayvon (Tray) would probably have thought he was being cased for a beat down. Especially when he heard GZ telling the guy on the phone where he was, etc.. It would have looked to Tray like the guy was after him and probably calling for his gangbangers to join in. Remember Tray had no clue, no idea who was following him, chasing after him by car, foot, etc. for a considerable amount of time. I find it hard to believe Tray did not hear some of the conversation... stuff like "they always get away" etc..
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Seems to me 17 is a child. 18 to be an adult in Florida.
Yep...and I think at this time it was incumbent upon George to identify himself...he didnt recognize Trayvon and trayvon didnt recognize him. Instead George continues to creep around the complex in the dark and rain with a flashlight packing a pistol? Even the police are required to identify themselves! But no, the Z supporters cant even picture a scenario in which GZ should have done the same...nope he did everything right...pulllease!!
Am I missing something here? Oh, thats right..."ITS PERFECTLY LEGAL TO FOLLOW A SUSPICIOUS PERSON RUNNING AWAY FROM THE SCENE"...yeah, I get it, but is it the smart thing to do...obviously not in this case...GZ got pummeled and charged with M2 and Trayvon is dead. Couldnt have dont anything different? Wow.
It turns out, George was suspicious, but this kid had committed no crime...lol. His suspicion was warranted given the circumstances and burglaries recently...I get it. But, it turns out he was wrong in this case...no crime...just a suspicion.
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Eggzactly. IMO both of them had a reason to be there. Both of them had a reason to believe the other was suspicious. GZ was playing the stupid adult. TM the stupid kid. They both had a reason and the right to defend themselves, "their" turf. The longer the chase the more adrenaline. The football player's gonna feel like someone's trying to ear hole him.. and eventually stop running. The whole part about walking around the car... To me that's Trayvon looking to see if it was a cop car. Looking for lights. Looking for some reason the guy is following. Hell still no discussion? Then he gets out and continues chase on foot? I think the State has a decent case for negligence.. That would probably lead to involuntary manslaughter given the witness that has Trayvon hitting GZ just before the shot.
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Well im still waiting for the prosecution to get to these points...i dont know about this prosecution team...they have witnesses coming forward that are confirming the defenses case, imo. Its like the prosecution felt they had to prosecute to please the public, but that these are the witnesses and these are the facts and put the pressure on a jury and take it off of us...lol.
We prosecuted him like you all wanted and the jury let him off. Thats the vibe Im getting. I mean bernster even had Mr good confirm that it was Treyvon on top and GZ on the bottom...lol. If you know this going in...theres the self defense argument, right there...case closed. They cannot choose to not call these witnesses...I mean as the prosecution team you cant just not call the last person to talk to him on the phone and then not call the eyewitness to the fight in progress. So they knew who they had and what they would testify to. They are pleasing the protesters and putting it all on the jury.
Case closed that is, if you arent addressing the other issues that we are bringing up. They are dropping the ball so far. To me this suggests, in part, a political motive to shift the responsibility to the jury...brilliant!
This case was becoming so politically damning to everyone involved that you can almost see a bunch of them gathered around the board table saying "look, we have to arrest and bring it to trial"..."we will present the case and let the jury decide...public stops the protest and jury takes the heat if he gets off...we go on with our lives and keep our jobs"
I dont believe Trayvon was verifying lights on the vehicle...I think he most likely had a pretty good look at the vehicle already. Plus GZ was driving a truck. I think Tray was just getting pissed and kind of went back to make sure that GZ wasnt some 280 pound monster...I think he was sizing him up.
Again though, seeing a kid circling your car suspiciously is another reason to identify yourself right now...why let him run away and then go chasing up a sidewalk with your flashlight? He was just at your car for christs sakes.
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Kooshdakhaa
Gold Member
And when you "being wrong" gets a 17-year-old kid killed...well, that's a problem.
BTW, Ive heard many on here state that the dispatcher was enquiring about the location of Trayvon after the dispatch said "we dont need you to do that". The suggestion here is that the dispatcher was in part to blame for GZ continuing to follow Trayvon.
Untrue...here is the transcript...the dispatch is only verifying GZs info and the location of his vehicle. To the contrary, the dispatch is under the impression that GZ is not following him anymore.
See the yellow shaded area for the "we dont need you to do that"...then read what immediately follows:
Transcript of George Zimmerman's Call to the Police
There is nothing here suggesting that he continue to follow Trayvon. The dispatcher said "we don't need you to do that" because that is what they are trained to do to defuse the situation and not escalate the situation and put the follower and the suspect in danger or in a confrontation they are not trained to handle. Hello!! Now we see why they are trained to say that...look what happened.
Theres an old saying..."The truth is somewhere in the middle"...if your interest is the truth, then you arent going to get there clamoring to one side or the other...open your mind.
One person is dead...so GZ levied his punishment...judge jury and executioner...Trayvon didn't get a trial or a jury...he got a death sentence....Hell Jodi Arias didn't even get the death penalty...lol. But what about GZ? Well, 1) next time defuse the situation, 2) don't follow suspicious characters in the dark using a flashlight...3) when confronted don't go frantically reaching for your pockets...whats the confronter suppose to think? That your reaching for a tootsie roll to give him? 4) For Gods sakes identify yourself...thats what the police are required to do for these reasons...how is a person to know if you are a creep or a concerned citizen? How was Trayvon or anyone else not supposed to think that GZ isn't the same suspicious fellow he is accusing of...he (George) seems to be acting suspicious to me and quite creepy to be honest.
I will wait on the defense to bring its case, but at the moment I lean to GZ serving some time for his mistakes...not life...but some time. Manslaughter...10 years...5 with good behavior...Does this send a bad message to criminals or law abiding citizens defending themselves? NO...absolutely not. It tells the criminal that in the future we are living in a different world where you need to be careful who you confront, rob, burglarize or assault...they may have a gun and will shoot you. Law abiding citizens are packing heat in record numbers to protect themselves against criminals like you!...food for thought.
It tells the law abiding citizen to be more careful in who you follow and why. It tells them that in the future, you may want to try and defuse the situation earlier instead of continuing to follow someone in the dark in the rain carrying a flashlight packing a pistol...especially if you are following someone you have not personally witnessed committing an actual crime. Identify yourself so that you are not perceived as maybe another criminal acting suspicious yourself. You see a suspicious person...report it...you did your job.
Those of you desperately playing the race card to sway public perception and intimidate the jury...shame on you! Those of you taking the other position because you don't appreciate Rev Al and Jessie protesting their BS in support of Trayvon...shame on you too! You both have clouded judgment because of race...sad! You can comment on here with your bias all you want, but it is those like you that are specifically avoided and weeded out to sit on juries...I wouldn't want to serve with either one of you.
Untrue...here is the transcript...the dispatch is only verifying GZs info and the location of his vehicle. To the contrary, the dispatch is under the impression that GZ is not following him anymore.
See the yellow shaded area for the "we dont need you to do that"...then read what immediately follows:
Transcript of George Zimmerman's Call to the Police
There is nothing here suggesting that he continue to follow Trayvon. The dispatcher said "we don't need you to do that" because that is what they are trained to do to defuse the situation and not escalate the situation and put the follower and the suspect in danger or in a confrontation they are not trained to handle. Hello!! Now we see why they are trained to say that...look what happened.
Theres an old saying..."The truth is somewhere in the middle"...if your interest is the truth, then you arent going to get there clamoring to one side or the other...open your mind.
One person is dead...so GZ levied his punishment...judge jury and executioner...Trayvon didn't get a trial or a jury...he got a death sentence....Hell Jodi Arias didn't even get the death penalty...lol. But what about GZ? Well, 1) next time defuse the situation, 2) don't follow suspicious characters in the dark using a flashlight...3) when confronted don't go frantically reaching for your pockets...whats the confronter suppose to think? That your reaching for a tootsie roll to give him? 4) For Gods sakes identify yourself...thats what the police are required to do for these reasons...how is a person to know if you are a creep or a concerned citizen? How was Trayvon or anyone else not supposed to think that GZ isn't the same suspicious fellow he is accusing of...he (George) seems to be acting suspicious to me and quite creepy to be honest.
I will wait on the defense to bring its case, but at the moment I lean to GZ serving some time for his mistakes...not life...but some time. Manslaughter...10 years...5 with good behavior...Does this send a bad message to criminals or law abiding citizens defending themselves? NO...absolutely not. It tells the criminal that in the future we are living in a different world where you need to be careful who you confront, rob, burglarize or assault...they may have a gun and will shoot you. Law abiding citizens are packing heat in record numbers to protect themselves against criminals like you!...food for thought.
It tells the law abiding citizen to be more careful in who you follow and why. It tells them that in the future, you may want to try and defuse the situation earlier instead of continuing to follow someone in the dark in the rain carrying a flashlight packing a pistol...especially if you are following someone you have not personally witnessed committing an actual crime. Identify yourself so that you are not perceived as maybe another criminal acting suspicious yourself. You see a suspicious person...report it...you did your job.
Those of you desperately playing the race card to sway public perception and intimidate the jury...shame on you! Those of you taking the other position because you don't appreciate Rev Al and Jessie protesting their BS in support of Trayvon...shame on you too! You both have clouded judgment because of race...sad! You can comment on here with your bias all you want, but it is those like you that are specifically avoided and weeded out to sit on juries...I wouldn't want to serve with either one of you.
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Sallow
The Big Bad Wolf.
No Sunshine, you can't swallow my jiz..and your vulgar concern with my asshole, although, heartwarming is still vulgar.
It also demonstrates you got nothing..here.
Sallow
The Big Bad Wolf.
Well Ernie, I am no gun nut, but I know a little bit. Been around guns since the age of seven..and I pretty much have decided I don't like them.
I see almost no need for citizens to be carrying them around, wild west style, to settle scores, like not being able to stop robberies from occurring in "their complexes" and making sure the "asshole" doesn't get away this time.
And I know enough that people like you, who can't handle themselves in the street and walk around with a chip on their shoulders, you know, like Zimmerman..should not being carrying guns.
Hopefully you don't lose it and shoot someone.
But aren't criminals inclined to go after people they find defenseless? What if now they have a side thought that the person might be carrying a weapon that could either level the playing field or give the law abiding citizen an advantage...isn't it a good deterrent?
How else do people protect themselves against violent crime? Btw, some areas have crime that would scare the wild west.
Sallow
The Big Bad Wolf.
The "molesting cousin" thing occurred when he was like 8 and his cousin was 6. I don't think it has much to do with anything.
His former fiancée took out a restraining order against him and he got into trouble for fighting with a cop.
This man should not have had a gun.
Sallow
The Big Bad Wolf.
No..it isn't a good "deterrent". And it's been tried.
What do you think the whole "Wild West" thing was all about. Everyone had side arms and people wound up shooting each other because they were drunk or mad.
The gunfight at the OK corral was about gun control. We have been backsliding into a huge mess.
But that doesnt answer the question of how a law abiding person defends themselves against a criminal. Your advice doesnt help me if I am viciously attacked.
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