The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[jon_berzerk]

Zimmerman probably would be dead today if he didn't shoot.

the final testimony of the day

by zimmermans physicians assistant

she said the same thing

O’Mara: “Medically speaking, would you say that whatever he did to stop the attack allowed him to survive it?”

Folgate: “It could have, yes.”

court recessed til monday

 

[Gracie]

I came home from work one night after doing a night shift. Someone was sculking around my husbands car, then ran into the yard behind some bushes. I saw all this when my headlights hit him. I calmly got out of my car and left the headlights on and walked to the front door. As I was walking I said clearly "I am packing. I will shoot your ******* ass. I suggest you hightail it". I did not stop walking. When I got to the front door, I heard rustling and hasty feet beating ass out of there. I damn sure was not going to go sneaking up to see who it was. I didn't care. I wanted to get INSIDE where I would be safe.

Why didn't Martin go home and then call police? Oh. Wait. I know. Cuz he isn't a *****. Gotcha.

 

[AyeCantSeeYou]

I don't really have a strong opinion one way or the other in this case but just curious what you guys have to say about this?
The Strata-Sphere » The Nail In George Zimmerman False Claims

Biggest problem with that I see right away is the picture showing the one man straddling the other. In this picture, the man is sitting on the one laying down on the ground. Jonathan Good was on the stand today and that isn't how he said the straddling was.

Physician assistant: George Zimmerman trained 'MMA style' | News 13

On that page, you can see the witness testimony from today. In Good's, there is a part where one of the attorneys is seen bent over and legs apart (straddling) to show the position of how the person Good saw on top of the other was.

Thanks @Ayecan'tseeyou I'll have to check it out. What about the rest of the info on there about the DNA and fractures etc.

I'll read more on it tomorrow. I've been up since 4 am and need to get in bed for tonight.

Nite ya'll! (said in my southern twang)

 

[jon_berzerk]

Very little blood and it was from a scrape on the tip of his nose:

Sanford Police Department took the above picture about 45 minutes after Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin, you can see two pinholes on the tip of Zimmerman's nose which is exactly the location of the bleeding Officer Wagner's picture shows.

two pin holes ........ ?? what about this ?

/

GEORGE ZIMMERMAN TRIAL WITNESS LINDZEE FOLGATE

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YNBAwMm4UOM#at=23]GEORGE ZIMMERMAN TRIAL WITNESS LINDZEE FOLGATE 6.28.13 PT.22 - YouTube[/ame]

watch her testimony 45 minutes

explains all very good defense witness

 

[Jackson]

That's bull. GZ would not have followed a White teen like that.

At least he never made a police call on one but dozens on black teenagers.

Actually only 7 out of 46.

46 Calls - The Daily Beast

A few on white people too.

Thank you for correcting me.

 

[asterism]

If a frog had wings, it wouldn't bump it's ass as it hopped.

Lot of IF'S being bandied about.

Yeah and those IFs would be completely relevant in a manslaughter trial.

 

[SantaFeWay]

That's bull. GZ would not have followed a White teen like that.

Mindreader, eh?

I wouldn't classify that as mind reading since he and his friend from the neighborhood have both stated numerous times that the burglaries that occurred were by black males and that is what they were on the look out for.

That's not saying they are racist, ( idk maybe they are maybe they aren't) but if that's the description you have that is what you are on alert for.

Tink, you asked if I thought GZ would follow a white guy and I think he would have. Yes, there were black teens committing burglaries in the area but some had been caught already. I just think he was watchful. Period.

I said "mindreader" because this thread is full of people thinking they know exactly what GZ or TM was thinking and it's just idiotic. GZ has never exhibited racist behavior in his past. Now this is based on facts not presented in court so we're getting off the trial track. But GZ's maternal grandfather is/was black. He acted on behalf of the family of a young black man who had been killed by police by handing out pamphlets in church and trying to get the community involved in pressuring the police to conduct a proper investigation. GZ is not a bigot according to any evidence I've seen anywhere, in court or otherwise.

 

[asterism]

Jackson - So far the testimony from Rachel was that GZ had lost TM and Martin was at his father's fiancee's condo. Then TM went back around to find GZ. And when he did he confronted him. That's the testimony about the lead up to the incident so far. What are you talking about that Martin was terrified and chose to fight over flight? Huh? He already fled to safety and chose to leave that safety and go and find the man who was following him. At least that's what the "star" prosecution witness, Ms. Jeantel, said.

So wait a minute is she credible or uncredible? Just for arguments sake I just want to say that if someone was following me I would not lead them back to my house. And because teenagers are generally stupid I don't find it unreasonable or out of the realm of possibility that a natural response would be to ask why you are being followed even for myself. What happened after that and why the situation escalated is any ones guess.

I'd really like to know what you guys think about this link
The Strata-Sphere » The Nail In George Zimmerman False Claims

Santa Fe Way: Good Questions. #1 How did Rachael know where the condo was that TM was going to? Did TM say he was already there? Is she or is she not a credible witness? You can't take one part of her testimony and throw out the rest.
I can't take part of her testimony and throw out the rest either. I think we have to throw out her entire testimony. It was hard to make heads or tails out of it anyway.

We really are going to have to rely on the eye witnesses and any evidence that comes about. We know there's a fight or flight response to fear. He chose to fight unless he didn't have a choice and Z approached him.

If you can't take any of her testimony then Zimmerman walks. She's the only one with evidence to show that Martin was scared.

 

[Tink]

Were they? We really don't know what Trevon would have done. Again. It was raining. Martin was walking slowly, looking at homes he passed. Yes, he may have just been a curious kid, but Zimmerman's job was to observe suspicious characters.
If I was walking back from a store in the rain, my focus would have been getting home. Are we saying that Martin didn't know to come in out of the rain?

It was raining. When you are walking in the rain, aren't you thinking of getting to you destination and not looking around? I don't think he was moving his head left to right checking out the decorations, the dwellings were exactly the same on each side...nothing to look at. He was merely returning from the store. He most likely was looking forward to getting to his destination.

If I was Martin and noticed someone following me, I would be alarmed. I would probably increase my speed and become very alarmed when the follower did the same, making sure he was following ME. I would be terrified. The fight or flight response within me would be initiated. Martin choice under severe fear was fight. But the fight wasn't fair. He was going to fight with fists, Zimmerman was going to fight with a .38 caliber. Zimmerman "won."

So when you were close to your house would you go inside or double back to sneak up on the guy who was following you?

Would you lead them back to your house?

 

[asterism]

I came home from work one night after doing a night shift. Someone was sculking around my husbands car, then ran into the yard behind some bushes. I saw all this when my headlights hit him. I calmly got out of my car and left the headlights on and walked to the front door. As I was walking I said clearly "I am packing. I will shoot your ******* ass. I suggest you hightail it". I did not stop walking. When I got to the front door, I heard rustling and hasty feet beating ass out of there. I damn sure was not going to go sneaking up to see who it was. I didn't care. I wanted to get INSIDE where I would be safe.

Why didn't Martin go home and then call police? Oh. Wait. I know. Cuz he isn't a *****. Gotcha.

That's a good point.

Why didn't Zimmerman do the same? He was packing. If he was trying to prevent a crime, that's a proper way to do it. Zimmerman was stupid. He wanted the assumed criminal caught, and as it turns out Martin wasn't committing any crime (even if he was casing condos, he'd never be convicted for being a curious teen).

 

[jon_berzerk]

So wait a minute is she credible or uncredible? Just for arguments sake I just want to say that if someone was following me I would not lead them back to my house. And because teenagers are generally stupid I don't find it unreasonable or out of the realm of possibility that a natural response would be to ask why you are being followed even for myself. What happened after that and why the situation escalated is any ones guess.

I'd really like to know what you guys think about this link
The Strata-Sphere » The Nail In George Zimmerman False Claims

Santa Fe Way: Good Questions. #1 How did Rachael know where the condo was that TM was going to? Did TM say he was already there? Is she or is she not a credible witness? You can't take one part of her testimony and throw out the rest.
I can't take part of her testimony and throw out the rest either. I think we have to throw out her entire testimony. It was hard to make heads or tails out of it anyway.

We really are going to have to rely on the eye witnesses and any evidence that comes about. We know there's a fight or flight response to fear. He chose to fight unless he didn't have a choice and Z approached him.

If you can't take any of her testimony then Zimmerman walks. She's the only one with evidence to show that Martin was scared.

she was impeached on several statements

the jury will be told they can use some of her remaining testimony

or disregard it

 

[Tink]

Biggest problem with that I see right away is the picture showing the one man straddling the other. In this picture, the man is sitting on the one laying down on the ground. Jonathan Good was on the stand today and that isn't how he said the straddling was.

Physician assistant: George Zimmerman trained 'MMA style' | News 13

On that page, you can see the witness testimony from today. In Good's, there is a part where one of the attorneys is seen bent over and legs apart (straddling) to show the position of how the person Good saw on top of the other was.

Thanks @Ayecan'tseeyou I'll have to check it out. What about the rest of the info on there about the DNA and fractures etc.

I'll read more on it tomorrow. I've been up since 4 am and need to get in bed for tonight.

Nite ya'll! (said in my southern twang)

I read it but I still don't see how someone would be able to reach their gun in the waist band if they were being straddled. maybe I'm missing something because that seems to be what happened what happened. Maybe he managed to reach it and had it while they were tussling and then when he wound up on the bottom he used it?

 

[Jackson]

The Nail In George Zimmerman False Claims

There is no way GZ could pull his gun as described. On his back with his holster against his hip, his holster inside his waistband, while being pinned by TM who is supposedly straddling him.

This position means TM”s legs are blocking access to GZ’s waist area (especially if he wiggles ‘downward’ through the straddling legs), as well as the ground and clothing making it impossible to reach and pull a gun.

In this position you cannot pull a gun on a wet and rainy night without some evidence on the gun. But the fact is GZ’s elbow is too long to reach his waist since he claimed to be pinning TM’s arm while attempting this trick.

Impossible

The Strata-Sphere » The Nail In George Zimmerman False Claims


Will there be an expert to explain this? Could make a difference.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Thanks @Ayecan'tseeyou I'll have to check it out. What about the rest of the info on there about the DNA and fractures etc.

I'll read more on it tomorrow. I've been up since 4 am and need to get in bed for tonight.

Nite ya'll! (said in my southern twang)

I read it but I still don't see how someone would be able to reach their gun in the waist band if they were being straddled. maybe I'm missing something because that seems to be what happened what happened. Maybe he managed to reach it and had it while they were tussling and then when he wound up on the bottom he used it?

could he have been straddling him over his legs

 

[Yurt]

if you did, i didn't see it, likely i just missed it, happens more often when you have such a huge thread

Yup, you missed it. I agree with this:

The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:

(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or

(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:

(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or

(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

This is what the jury is going to have decide, and from what I hear 2nd and 3d hand, prosecution is not doing well.

how can you still believe an aggressor cannot claim self defense then?

 

[asterism]

It was raining. When you are walking in the rain, aren't you thinking of getting to you destination and not looking around? I don't think he was moving his head left to right checking out the decorations, the dwellings were exactly the same on each side...nothing to look at. He was merely returning from the store. He most likely was looking forward to getting to his destination.

If I was Martin and noticed someone following me, I would be alarmed. I would probably increase my speed and become very alarmed when the follower did the same, making sure he was following ME. I would be terrified. The fight or flight response within me would be initiated. Martin choice under severe fear was fight. But the fight wasn't fair. He was going to fight with fists, Zimmerman was going to fight with a .38 caliber. Zimmerman "won."

So when you were close to your house would you go inside or double back to sneak up on the guy who was following you?

Would you lead them back to your house?

Hard to say. I certainly wouldn't head back to where he was. Maybe I wouldn't go home, but I wouldn't sneak up on the guy either.

Unless I wanted to prove that I wasn't a ***** - for whatever that is worth.

 

[Tink]

Mindreader, eh?

I wouldn't classify that as mind reading since he and his friend from the neighborhood have both stated numerous times that the burglaries that occurred were by black males and that is what they were on the look out for.

That's not saying they are racist, ( idk maybe they are maybe they aren't) but if that's the description you have that is what you are on alert for.

Tink, you asked if I thought GZ would follow a white guy and I think he would have. Yes, there were black teens committing burglaries in the area but some had been caught already. I just think he was watchful. Period.

I said "mindreader" because this thread is full of people thinking they know exactly what GZ or TM was thinking and it's just idiotic. GZ has never exhibited racist behavior in his past. Now this is based on facts not presented in court so we're getting off the trial track. But GZ's maternal grandfather is/was black. He acted on behalf of the family of a young black man who had been killed by police by handing out pamphlets in church and trying to get the community involved in pressuring the police to conduct a proper investigation. GZ is not a bigot according to any evidence I've seen anywhere, in court or otherwise.

@Santafe
thanks. I wasn't really saying he was racist, like I said that's the description he had of people who were burglarizing. So that is likely why he thought Martin was suspicious. There is also another AA man who said GZ confronted and followed him and he lives there. I've noticed the mindreaders and the blatant racism from both sides on this thread its enough to make my head explode that's why I don't visit much. I was just killing some time waiting on my hubby

 

[Tink]

So wait a minute is she credible or uncredible? Just for arguments sake I just want to say that if someone was following me I would not lead them back to my house. And because teenagers are generally stupid I don't find it unreasonable or out of the realm of possibility that a natural response would be to ask why you are being followed even for myself. What happened after that and why the situation escalated is any ones guess.

I'd really like to know what you guys think about this link
The Strata-Sphere » The Nail In George Zimmerman False Claims

Santa Fe Way: Good Questions. #1 How did Rachael know where the condo was that TM was going to? Did TM say he was already there? Is she or is she not a credible witness? You can't take one part of her testimony and throw out the rest.
I can't take part of her testimony and throw out the rest either. I think we have to throw out her entire testimony. It was hard to make heads or tails out of it anyway.

We really are going to have to rely on the eye witnesses and any evidence that comes about. We know there's a fight or flight response to fear. He chose to fight unless he didn't have a choice and Z approached him.

If you can't take any of her testimony then Zimmerman walks. She's the only one with evidence to show that Martin was scared.

How does someone being scared prove or disprove murder? That makes no sense.

 

[asterism]

The Nail In George Zimmerman False Claims

There is no way GZ could pull his gun as described. On his back with his holster against his hip, his holster inside his waistband, while being pinned by TM who is supposedly straddling him.

This position means TM”s legs are blocking access to GZ’s waist area (especially if he wiggles ‘downward’ through the straddling legs), as well as the ground and clothing making it impossible to reach and pull a gun.

In this position you cannot pull a gun on a wet and rainy night without some evidence on the gun. But the fact is GZ’s elbow is too long to reach his waist since he claimed to be pinning TM’s arm while attempting this trick.

Impossible

The Strata-Sphere » The Nail In George Zimmerman False Claims


Will there be an expert to explain this? Could make a difference.

He wasn't "pinned" according to the testimony. His hips were against the ground, but he could rotate and reach. And then there is the possibility that the holster moved enough to provide access to the gun.

 

[Yurt]

Only if, and this has not been proven, that GZ did not provoke an incident or attack. If he did not and TM reached for the, gun, then, yes, GZ was justified in shooting.

absolutely wrong. zimmerman can provoke an incident and still claim self defense.

how many times do i have to say this?

Because you can't understand is why, Yurt. Go back and read what you posted about the requirements of the law. (1) if GZ did not threaten TM yet TM reached for the gun, then GZ was right to protect himself. (2) if GS attacked TM and if TM thought his life was in danger and reached for the gun, then GZ was not justified.

You better start studying the Purdue University OWL site I gave you, because you have comprehension problems.

you really are a retard. the law never said zimmerman could not defend himself in this scenario. if martin reached for the gun, zimmerman is within in his right to believe his life was in imminent harm and he happened to get the first...classic self defense. especially when the witnesses say martin was on top.