The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[animallover]

Why didnt Martin use his cell phone and call the police that he was afraid due to being followed by a stranger?

Simple question.

Because he was not a ***** like GZ.

Yeah he was such a bad ass he started beating the crap outta GZ and got shot in the process.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Jackson - So far the testimony from Rachel was that GZ had lost TM and Martin was at his father's fiancee's condo. Then TM went back around to find GZ. And when he did he confronted him. That's the testimony about the lead up to the incident so far. What are you talking about that Martin was terrified and chose to fight over flight? Huh? He already fled to safety and chose to leave that safety and go and find the man who was following him. At least that's what the "star" prosecution witness, Ms. Jeantel, said.

So wait a minute is she credible or uncredible? Just for arguments sake I just want to say that if someone was following me I would not lead them back to my house. And because teenagers are generally stupid I don't find it unreasonable or out of the realm of possibility that a natural response would be to ask why you are being followed even for myself. What happened after that and why the situation escalated is any ones guess.

I'd really like to know what you guys think about this link
The Strata-Sphere » The Nail In George Zimmerman False Claims

the debris field travels from the T intersection where zimmerman says he was

to the spot where martins body laid

 

[asterism]

I agree...it has nothing to do with his self defense. Just an opinion of what could be done to perhaps avoid it in the future.

Ive said in the past that I would not want to be on the prosecution team trying to prove that it wasnt self defense...losing battle, imo...too subjective. Thats why the race card is being so desperately played...try to get a conviction on emotion instead of the facts. I think the prosecution could go in another direction by showing that GZ could be considered the aggressor for reaching when asked a question in the dark and rain...I think they should play that card and let the jury decide who was initially acting in self defense.

If I ask you a question and you reach for something that I think may be a weapon and I punch you before you can access it and then I rain blows in a struggle to keep you from accessing the weapon, then I think the jury has something to think about. Like wait a minute...was trayvon throwing blows to prevent being shot by a strange man following him in the dark in an unfamiliar neighborhood? Not saying that it would work, but its a logical argument and you could use GZs own words against him to boot.

The prosecution really should have built a case for manslaughter once they saw how weak their case for murder was. While not necessarily the letter of the law with regards to self-defense, the act of leaving his truck armed is significant and would be enough to convince a jury that a concealed carry permit comes with responsibilities.

However, charging him with murder opens up the door to require that the prosecution prove beyond a reasonable doubt that killing Martin was not in self-defense which makes it even harder to convict on manslaughter. It either was self-defense or it wasn't and although the standard is statutorily the same, a jury would see it differently if it were just manslaughter.

so far from what the state has presented they would not get manslaughter

I tend to agree, that's why I said that they should have built the case for manslaughter when they realized how weak their case for murder was. Before the circus, it was a pretty strong case for manslaughter. Had Zimmerman stayed in his truck, Martin would be alive. Had Zimmerman drawn his weapon, identified himself, and held Martin at gunpoint, Martin would be alive. Had Zimmerman been better trained in following a suspicious individual, Martin would be alive.

Regardless of whether this actually was self-defense once the altercation started, if the state had gone for manslaughter the focus would have been on actions Zimmerman could have taken to avoid shooting Martin. But since they charged Zimmerman with murder, the focus of the case is on things Zimmerman did to deliberately cause Martin's death.

A jury would more likely convict on manslaughter if the focus was on what Zimmerman could have done to prevent a bad situation rather than now, which is proving that Zimmerman intentionally killed Martin with malice.

If I go to a bar parking lot armed and wait for a drunk to start a fight with me is that murder? Hard to prove. Is it stupid and grossly negligent? Yep. Could I have prevented it by not going there? Yep. Is that manslaughter? Likely.

 

[Zona]

Reasonable doubt as defined was just verified by the mumbling, overweight, teen.

I'm sure her weight issue is a thyroid problem.

Or perhaps her education is such her weekly pay can afford reams of Chicken and bacon

IDK

-Geaux

She can speak three languages. English is her THIRD...


You?

 

[Gracie]

Why didnt Martin use his cell phone and call the police that he was afraid due to being followed by a stranger?

Simple question.

Because he was not a ***** like GZ.

Right. He wanted to show that cracker whats what. Which is why he went after Zimmerman thinking he could get the one up on him. Which is in essence the same thing Idiot Rachel said.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Why didnt Martin use his cell phone and call the police that he was afraid due to being followed by a stranger?

Simple question.

Because he was not a ***** like GZ.

Yeah he was such a bad ass he started beating the crap outta GZ and got shot in the process.

john goode

put zimmerman and martin on the cement

 

[jon_berzerk]

Why didnt Martin use his cell phone and call the police that he was afraid due to being followed by a stranger?

Simple question.

Because he was not a ***** like GZ.

Right. He wanted to show that cracker whats what. Which is why he went after Zimmerman thinking he could get the one up on him. Which is in essence the same thing Idiot Rachel said.

after she spelled that out

she said

you didnt get that from me

--LOL

 

[asterism]

Why didnt Martin use his cell phone and call the police that he was afraid due to being followed by a stranger?

Simple question.

Because he was not a ***** like GZ.

So he was a thug then?

A reasonable upstanding person wants help when he is in trouble, he doesn't want to fight to show that he's not a *****.


Are you a thug?

 

[Gracie]

I said it before and I will say it again. That chick is a full fledged moron. Her parents must be so proud.

 

[Tink]

Why didn't Martin use his cell phone to call police and that he was afraid due to being followed?

Simple question asked again.

Because he was a teenager and he was on the phone with his friend. He didn't know what the outcome was going to be. Most people don't call the cops for every little thing. Maybe he wanted to make sure he was being followed, maybe he thought well this guy can't just grab me I can take him. I can't pretend to know what was in his head but my thoughts are that he wasn't necessarily afraid because he couldn't have known GZ had a gun but he was likely unnerved and creeped out at being followed. Maybe he was angry because he thought he was being watched for being black. A friend of mine and I were discussing yesterday how when he goes into the store he's suddenly watched at everything he does, everyone is asking if they can help him etc... why because they think he's going to steal something based on his looks. This doesn't happen to me. But it did when I was a teenager because they assumed as a teen I was there to steal. This pissed me off so I can understand why it would piss someone else off especially since I don't experience this on the regular but can imagine if I did.

 

[asterism]

There is no way GZ should walk. He had no right to take the law into his own hands. There is a reason for that. If he does Blacks just became second class citizens again. And WE are to blame.

How does race factor into this? How are blacks second hand citizens based solely on this case and the effective (or ineffective) case the prosecution has?

There are many punks like weak punk GZ watching this case. They hate Black teens (especially). Once he gets off they will start fights with them then shoot them or shoot them in their cars for loud music and get away with it. That's why.

Congrats Teapublicans. You have won.

Wow.

In 3 years here I've never seen you raise a valid point, but you actually did here.

So is the purpose of our criminal justice system to convict based on signals it will send or on evidence?

But what about the thugs that happen to be black who see that the President will have their back if they punch a cracker just for following them?

 

[Gracie]

If a frog had wings, it wouldn't bump it's ass as it hopped.

Lot of IF'S being bandied about.

 

[Tink]

I don't really have a strong opinion one way or the other in this case but just curious what you guys have to say about this?
The Strata-Sphere » The Nail In George Zimmerman False Claims

Biggest problem with that I see right away is the picture showing the one man straddling the other. In this picture, the man is sitting on the one laying down on the ground. Jonathan Good was on the stand today and that isn't how he said the straddling was.

Physician assistant: George Zimmerman trained 'MMA style' | News 13

On that page, you can see the witness testimony from today. In Good's, there is a part where one of the attorneys is seen bent over and legs apart (straddling) to show the position of how the person Good saw on top of the other was.

Thanks @Ayecan'tseeyou I'll have to check it out. What about the rest of the info on there about the DNA and fractures etc.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Zimmerman probably would be dead today if he didn't shoot. I don't blame him at all.

You people defending the thug are racist against this Hispanic.

 

[Wildman]

Very little blood and it was from a scrape on the tip of his nose:

Sanford Police Department took the above picture about 45 minutes after Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin, you can see two pinholes on the tip of Zimmerman's nose which is exactly the location of the bleeding Officer Wagner's picture shows.

two pin holes ........ ?? what about this ?

/

 

[Gracie]

Why didn't Martin use his cell phone to call police and that he was afraid due to being followed?

Simple question asked again.

Because he was a teenager and he was on the phone with his friend. He didn't know what the outcome was going to be. Most people don't call the cops for every little thing. Maybe he wanted to make sure he was being followed, maybe he thought well this guy can't just grab me I can take him. I can't pretend to know what was in his head but my thoughts are that he wasn't necessarily afraid because he couldn't have known GZ had a gun but he was likely unnerved and creeped out at being followed. Maybe he was angry because he thought he was being watched for being black. A friend of mine and I were discussing yesterday how when he goes into the store he's suddenly watched at everything he does, everyone is asking if they can help him etc... why because they think he's going to steal something based on his looks. This doesn't happen to me. But it did when I was a teenager because they assumed as a teen I was there to steal. This pissed me off so I can understand why it would piss someone else off especially since I don't experience this on the regular but can imagine if I did.

When I had my business, I never watched the teens. I watched the senior citizens. THEY are the ones with the sticky fingers.

 

[Jackson]

Jackson - So far the testimony from Rachel was that GZ had lost TM and Martin was at his father's fiancee's condo. Then TM went back around to find GZ. And when he did he confronted him. That's the testimony about the lead up to the incident so far. What are you talking about that Martin was terrified and chose to fight over flight? Huh? He already fled to safety and chose to leave that safety and go and find the man who was following him. At least that's what the "star" prosecution witness, Ms. Jeantel, said.

So wait a minute is she credible or uncredible? Just for arguments sake I just want to say that if someone was following me I would not lead them back to my house. And because teenagers are generally stupid I don't find it unreasonable or out of the realm of possibility that a natural response would be to ask why you are being followed even for myself. What happened after that and why the situation escalated is any ones guess.

I'd really like to know what you guys think about this link
The Strata-Sphere » The Nail In George Zimmerman False Claims

Santa Fe Way: Good Questions. #1 How did Rachael know where the condo was that TM was going to? Did TM say he was already there? Is she or is she not a credible witness? You can't take one part of her testimony and throw out the rest.
I can't take part of her testimony and throw out the rest either. I think we have to throw out her entire testimony. It was hard to make heads or tails out of it anyway.

We really are going to have to rely on the eye witnesses and any evidence that comes about. We know there's a fight or flight response to fear. He chose to fight unless he didn't have a choice and Z approached him.

 

[asterism]

Im not talking about breaking laws...Im talking about what could have been done differently and also complying with the law. I understand he broke no laws...doesnt mean that his actions were the most correct for the situation.

I have stated ad nauseum that Trayvon should have just went home...I have stated that he was not running scared and that he came back to the problem twice once circling the person he was supposedly afraid ofs car. Thats not someone scared...thats someone acting like a punk.

I have also stated that Trayvon could have also defused the situation. GZ wasnt looking for a fight...he did not have to be punched. Trayvon could have been nicer about it also. Like: Hey, why are you following me...did I do something wrong? who are you?

The point is that Trayvon is dead there is nothing he can do from where he is now to remedy a similar situation in the future. GZ is still alive and if he runs into this situation again, then maybe his approach could be a little different...thats all.

Im just astonished at the adults that would not do something different to defuse the situation earlier. I have no shame...I would have just stopped my car and rolled down the window and asked what was up? lol. Especially if he was on a friend of mines neighbors lawn. Obviously, Zimmerman didnt have that him...he just picked up and called 911. If the cops would have come, it would have been for naught...tray would have just said he went to 7-11, bought some skittles and im enroute to my dads girlfriends house and this creep is getting all detective on me following me around. Okay, have a nice day...enjoy the all star game.

Zimmermans suspicion turned out to be so blatantly wrong that its hilarious to me that no one in here is objective enough to see what he could have done differently if it were their kid in the same situation. Im just trying to get an ounce of objective thought out of someone. But nope...its either solidly in Zs corner and he could do no wrong and nothing differently or solidly in Trays corner thinking he was just some innocent meek kid running scared. Theres not much of an in between in here...Im kind of shocked.

Were they? We really don't know what Trevon would have done. Again. It was raining. Martin was walking slowly, looking at homes he passed. Yes, he may have just been a curious kid, but Zimmerman's job was to observe suspicious characters.
If I was walking back from a store in the rain, my focus would have been getting home. Are we saying that Martin didn't know to come in out of the rain?

It was raining. When you are walking in the rain, aren't you thinking of getting to you destination and not looking around? I don't think he was moving his head left to right checking out the decorations, the dwellings were exactly the same on each side...nothing to look at. He was merely returning from the store. He most likely was looking forward to getting to his destination.

If I was Martin and noticed someone following me, I would be alarmed. I would probably increase my speed and become very alarmed when the follower did the same, making sure he was following ME. I would be terrified. The fight or flight response within me would be initiated. Martin choice under severe fear was fight. But the fight wasn't fair. He was going to fight with fists, Zimmerman was going to fight with a .38 caliber. Zimmerman "won."

So when you were close to your house would you go inside or double back to sneak up on the guy who was following you?

 

[ScienceRocks]

I'm concerned about the almost all-white upper-middle class jury for this reason...

What White People Don't Understand About Rachel Jeantel By Rachel Samara | Global Grind

So a white jury can't be fair but a black jury can?

Anything less then a GUIILLITY is seen as injustice to these bastards. That's what's justice to these is to these racist bastards is.

Funny thing is these people don't even know the concept of justice. lol

 

[asterism]

The killing had NOTHING to do with race but the aftermath has EVERYTHING to do with it.

That's bull. GZ would not have followed a White teen like that.

At least he never made a police call on one but dozens on black teenagers.

Actually only 7 out of 46.

46 Calls - The Daily Beast

A few on white people too.