The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?

[montelatici]

I might vote for him except that he just can't get it through his head that the UN general assembly has no authority.

he can't even seem to figure out what an indigenous person is. Having developed in the area, obviously the indigenous people are the Judaic people. Having developed far far away on the Arabian peninsula the Arabs are clearly NOT the indigenous people

The indigenous people of Palestine are certainly not the European Jews. The Palestinians are the people that have always lived in Palestine. Their choice of religion to follow doesn't change the people.

 

[Boston1]

The UN and its palestinian sympathizers the UNWRA has been so involved in anti Israeli activities for so long that the ICC has from what I can see been petitioned at least a half dozen times to investigate them for war crimes and crimes against the principals of neutrality.

I don't want to get to far off topic but you are dreaming if you think the UN is an unbiased organization.

As far as your claim of the indiginous nature of the Arab Muslims in Judea. You'd have to show they are first somehow distinct from the Arab Muslims of Jordan, and as I recall they were registered Jordanians as of just a few years ago. Or any different than Syrians or any number of Arab Muslim communities living outside the Arabian Peninsula from whence they came in about the 9th century CE.

Then you'd have to show that the Judaic people didn't precede them in Judea.

On any number of scores, the invented people in roughly 1967 are not indigenous.

 

[montelatici]

1. It is UN document from 1947, when the UN essentially approved the Zionist colonization of Palestine. The UN was biased, alright, against the native people of Palestine and biased for the Europeans Jews.

2. The native people of the Trans-Jordan were Bedouins, not Muslim or Christian Palestinians, the native people of Palestine. Completely distinct.

3. The people of Palestine are the native people of Palestine. They once followed the Canaanite, Roman, Jewish and Christian and other religions. At different times.

4. The Palestinians were Palestinians long before 1967. They were Palestinians when it was the Roman province of Palaestina. The fact that they followed the Canaanite Samaritan, Jewish, Roman or Christian religions at one time does not change them as a people just because they adopted the Muslim religion.

 

[abu afak]

Oh, the usual Zionist false propaganda. Now the facts from source documents:

UNITED
NATIONS​

• General Assembly
  
  A/364 3 September 1947​

OFFICIAL RECORDS OF THE SECOND SESSION OF
THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY
SUPPLEMENT No. 11

​

Except for one thing Akhmed.​

I posted 1922-1931.
You posted 1922-1946, which includes the large War refugee years of 1940-1946.
Perhaps they don't know Apples from Oranges in Yemen.
See my Sig.
-

 

[montelatici]

Oh, the usual Zionist false propaganda. Now the facts from source documents:

UNITED
NATIONS
A

• 
  General Assembly

A/364
3 September 1947

OFFICIAL RECORDS OF THE SECOND SESSION OF
THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY


SUPPLEMENT No. 11



UNITED NATIONS
SPECIAL COMMITTEE
ON PALESTINE

​

REPORT TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY

VOLUME 1





Lake Success
New York
1947



4. It will have been noticed that not only has there been a remarkably rapid increase in the total population of Palestine but also the proportion of Jews in the total has greatly increased, from 12.91 -per cent in 1922 to 32.96 per cent in 1946. Conversely, of course, the Arab proportion has fallen since 1922. The Moslem proportion of the population (almost entirely Arab) has fallen from about 75 per cent of the total to 60 per cent, and the Christian proportion (very largely Arab) from 11 per cent to 8 per cent. Thus, at the present time about one-third of the total settled population is Jewish.

(b)IMMIGRATION AND NATURAL INCREASE

15. These changes in the population have been brought about by two forces: natural increase and immigration. The great increase in the Jewish population is due in the main to immigration. From 1920 to 1946, the total number of recorded Jewish immigrants into Palestine was about 376,000, or an average of over 8,000 per year. The flow has not been regular, however, being fairly high in 1924 to 1926, falling in the next few years (there was a net emigration in 1927) and rising to even higher levels between 1933 and 1936 as a result of the Nazi persecution in Europe. Between the census year of 1931 and the year 1936, the proportion of Jews to the total population rose from 18 per cent to nearly 30 per cent.

16. The Arab population has increased almost entirely as a result of an excess of births over deaths.

Except for one thing Akhmed.
I posted 1922-1931.
You posted 1922-1946, which includes the large War refugee years of 1945/1946.
Perhaps they don't know Apples from Oranges in Yemen.
-

It is from 1947.

 

[abu afak]

It is from 1947.

You obviously are logic challenged as well as language challenged.
It wouldn't matter what Year the REPORT was from,.
I posted the statistics/scenario for 1922-1931, YOU posted 1922-1946.
DIFFERENT time periods.
You Moron.
It wouldn't matter if the report was from 1947, 1967, or 2007.
Unbelievable
You are just too obtuse to debate.

 

[Shusha]

The indigenous people of Palestine are certainly not the European Jews. The Palestinians are the people that have always lived in Palestine. Their choice of religion to follow doesn't change the people.

You are wrong. Indigenous cultures are those which pre-exist colonization and conquest. That's the UN's working definition. Thus the Jewish people are indigenous to Palestine and the colonizing, conquesting cultures of the Arab Muslims are not. Long term residence is not the same thing as being indigenous.

 

[Boston1]

I had him on ignore for a long time and if he's not careful he might just be on ignore again. His consistently ignoring all logical argument to the contrary and repetitive diatribe reminds me of climate deniers. No amount of science of logic can shake their ideological nonsense.

Its one thing to discuss the subject but its another to just be offering someone a platform to repeat the same old lies and nonsense over and over.

There's really no doubt who the indigenous people of this region are. The Judaic people.

 

[Shusha]

Now this is not to say that being indigenous is a requirement for national sovereignty or self-determination, but its just a silly argument.

 

[Shusha]

His consistently ignoring all logical argument to the contrary and repetitive diatribe reminds me of climate deniers. No amount of science of logic can shake their ideological nonsense.

Or anti-vaxxers.

The reason he does it is because he needs to justify his reasoning for why the Jewish people should not have national sovereignty and self-determination on part of the land.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I had him on ignore for a long time and if he's not careful he might just be on ignore again. His consistently ignoring all logical argument to the contrary and repetitive diatribe reminds me of climate deniers. No amount of science of logic can shake their ideological nonsense.

Its one thing to discuss the subject but its another to just be offering someone a platform to repeat the same old lies and nonsense over and over.

There's really no doubt who the indigenous people of this region are. The Judaic people.

Some were. Who is arguing that point?

 

[Boston1]

Now this is not to say that being indigenous is a requirement for national sovereignty or self-determination, but its just a silly argument.

Exactly. The Syrians, the Jordanians and countless others are not an indigenous people however have cultures, languages, styles of dress, customs that all developed in the Arabian peninsula. We also know that there was a massive upheaval of people in the violence of the Arab conquest. So its very difficult to say that any large percentage of these people are in any way indigenous.

However, many do have a nation state in the old Ottoman Empire.

The deal is that attempting to invent a people out of the the defunct Jordanians, an invented people themselves and impose them on Israel just isn't fooling anyone. Or of course anyone actually paying attention

 

[Indeependent]

I had him on ignore for a long time and if he's not careful he might just be on ignore again. His consistently ignoring all logical argument to the contrary and repetitive diatribe reminds me of climate deniers. No amount of science of logic can shake their ideological nonsense.

Its one thing to discuss the subject but its another to just be offering someone a platform to repeat the same old lies and nonsense over and over.

There's really no doubt who the indigenous people of this region are. The Judaic people.

Some were. Who is arguing that point?

There must be a photoshopped document on your wall that argues that point.

 

[Billo_Really]

You are wrong. Indigenous cultures are those which pre-exist colonization and conquest. That's the UN's working definition. Thus the Jewish people are indigenous to Palestine and the colonizing, conquesting cultures of the Arab Muslims are not. Long term residence is not the same thing as being indigenous.

You've only been indigenous for 414 years, out of the entire 5000 years that area has been inhabited. Ergo, you've only been indigenous 8% of the time.

Now, many of you fuckers say Arabs didn't show up until the 7th century and that's what, 1300 years ago? That's about 20% indigenous for them.

Therefore, Arabs are 12% more indigenous than Jews.

 

[Billo_Really]

Check out the voting bitches!

Have Zionists ever been right about anything?

 

[Shusha]

You are wrong. Indigenous cultures are those which pre-exist colonization and conquest. That's the UN's working definition. Thus the Jewish people are indigenous to Palestine and the colonizing, conquesting cultures of the Arab Muslims are not. Long term residence is not the same thing as being indigenous.

You've only been indigenous for 414 years, out of the entire 5000 years that area has been inhabited. Ergo, you've only been indigenous 8% of the time.

Now, many of you fuckers say Arabs didn't show up until the 7th century and that's what, 1300 years ago? That's about 20% indigenous for them.

Therefore, Arabs are 12% more indigenous than Jews.

Ah, so the only way you can make things work out is for you to change the actual definition of "indigenous". Once again, indigenous does not have the same meaning as length of residency.


Edited to add: My husband says you can be fast and loose with (sexual partner of choice) or liquor but not with word definitions.

 

[Billo_Really]

Ah, so the only way you can make things work out is for you to change the actual definition of "indigenous". Once again, indigenous does not have the same meaning as length of residency.


Edited to add: My husband says you can be fast and loose with (sexual partner of choice) or liquor but not with word definitions.

And you're nuts, if you think arguing BS semantics will give people moving into an area, more rights than the people already living there.

 

[Billo_Really]

Here's another example of how ridiculous the Zionist narrative is...

How is it possible for Israel to be completely surrounded by Arab nations and the Palestinian's, who are Arab, not be indigenous to that area?​

 

[Shusha]

Ah, so the only way you can make things work out is for you to change the actual definition of "indigenous". Once again, indigenous does not have the same meaning as length of residency.


Edited to add: My husband says you can be fast and loose with (sexual partner of choice) or liquor but not with word definitions.

And you're nuts, if you think arguing BS semantics will give people moving into an area, more rights than the people already living there.

Not asking for more rights. Asking for equal rights.

 

[Shusha]

Here's another example of how ridiculous the Zionist narrative is...

How is it possible for Israel to be completely surrounded by Arab nations and the Palestinian's, who are Arab, not be indigenous to that area?​

Um. The same way the Lakota nation (as an example) can be surrounded by European colonized nations?