The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?

[Sixties Fan]

I have read The Pentateuch and New Testament, and I not only read them, I studied them, studied Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic in reference to certain phrases and words in both The Old Testament and New Testament.

Why do you refuse to discuss The Book of Zacharia?

I do not want to wipe out Jewish History. I want to defend Israel's right to The Promise Land. It can be proven they are genetically and historically tied to Israel for about the last 4,000 years. It can be shown they Sojourned in Egypt, just like The Bible states they did.

I am affirming Jewish History, not denying it.

Why don't you want to answer my question about The Book of Zacharia?

You have really not noticed?

This is NOT, the religion community and this is NOT a religion thread.

What a joke, you AFFIRM Jewish history by changing what is actually written.

Have a nice life rearranging history to your liking.

The discussion became religious in nature when the discussion was about WHO IS INDIGENOUS to ISRAEL or PALESTINE, Jew or Arab.....????

The Bible is both a religious book and a Historical Reference which has repeatedly been proven to be accurate and true, so excluding mention of The Promised Land in The Bible does a disservice to the discussion.

I have provided Biblical Sources, Historical Sources, and Genetic Studies that prove ISRAEL is for ISRAELIS, and only THE JEW, THE HEBREW is INDIGENOUS to ISRAEL.

The Religious context interjected in to the discussion is only in reference to The Abrahamic Covenant, and Abraham whom both Jew and Arab claim as their Patriarch, and the fact that Abraham passed on his Inheritance, and The Abrahamic Covenant to Isaac whom passed it on to Jacob-Israel, and that Ishmael was ENTIRELY EXCLUDED from The ABRAHAMIC Covenant, and has NO RIGHT to The Promised Land. He instead was given a different promise, that his children would become a great and many people, which according to all I have studied, are THE Arabs.

If you like, you can limit that to just The Egyptians, but it does not change anything I have factually laid out here in this discussion.

Are you sure, you are Jewish? You don't seem to like the fact I am able to show That Israel is for Jews, and Jews alone, and has been for 4,000 years.

The discussion became religious in nature when the discussion was about WHO IS INDIGENOUS to ISRAEL or PALESTINE, Jew or Arab.....????

The Palestinians had lived in that territory for thousands of years without dispute. Then some settlers came down from Europe, who had no record that any of them had any ancestors from that territory, and claimed it for themselves.

That is absolutely false. There is both Genetic Evidence through DNA, Historical Evidence via Granite Monuments commemorating battles with Israel, documents, from Egyptian Scrolls written on Papyrus, to the Dead Sea Scrolls, and even a Copper plate found, and other stone monuments that show that The Hebrews & Israel has existed for 4,000 years occupying the area and beyond what we call modern day Israel.

There is No such thing as a Palestinian unless you want to talk about a Racial Slur The Roman Empire created to ridicule and insult Jews living in Israel under Roman Occupation.

Secret of Dead Sea Copper Scroll Unlocked, Revealing Location of Lost Temple Treasures

8 Jewish archaeological discoveries


Ceramic shard may bear oldest Hebrew inscription

A 6-by-6-inch pottery shard unearthed at the archaeological dig site of Hirbet Qeiyafa (the Elah Fortress) in Israel, shown here, contains five lines of faded characters that may bear the oldest Hebrew inscription ever found. The 3,000-year-old text dates to the time of the Hebrew Bible's King David and is thought to be written in proto-Canaanite, a precursor to the Hebrew alphabet. While other people used proto-Canaanite characters as well, the inscription contains a three-letter verb meaning "to do" that existed only in Hebrew, according to Yossi Garfinkel, a Hebrew University archaeologist in charge of the dig. "That leads us to believe that this is Hebrew, and that this is the oldest Hebrew inscription that has been found," he told the Associated Press. Other scholars, however, have urged caution until more is known about the inscription and its context.

So, did the Palestinians just fall out of the sky in 1924?

 

[The Original Tree]

I have read The Pentateuch and New Testament, and I not only read them, I studied them, studied Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic in reference to certain phrases and words in both The Old Testament and New Testament.

Why do you refuse to discuss The Book of Zacharia?

I do not want to wipe out Jewish History. I want to defend Israel's right to The Promise Land. It can be proven they are genetically and historically tied to Israel for about the last 4,000 years. It can be shown they Sojourned in Egypt, just like The Bible states they did.

I am affirming Jewish History, not denying it.

Why don't you want to answer my question about The Book of Zacharia?

You have really not noticed?

This is NOT, the religion community and this is NOT a religion thread.

What a joke, you AFFIRM Jewish history by changing what is actually written.

Have a nice life rearranging history to your liking.

The discussion became religious in nature when the discussion was about WHO IS INDIGENOUS to ISRAEL or PALESTINE, Jew or Arab.....????

The Bible is both a religious book and a Historical Reference which has repeatedly been proven to be accurate and true, so excluding mention of The Promised Land in The Bible does a disservice to the discussion.

I have provided Biblical Sources, Historical Sources, and Genetic Studies that prove ISRAEL is for ISRAELIS, and only THE JEW, THE HEBREW is INDIGENOUS to ISRAEL.

The Religious context interjected in to the discussion is only in reference to The Abrahamic Covenant, and Abraham whom both Jew and Arab claim as their Patriarch, and the fact that Abraham passed on his Inheritance, and The Abrahamic Covenant to Isaac whom passed it on to Jacob-Israel, and that Ishmael was ENTIRELY EXCLUDED from The ABRAHAMIC Covenant, and has NO RIGHT to The Promised Land. He instead was given a different promise, that his children would become a great and many people, which according to all I have studied, are THE Arabs.

If you like, you can limit that to just The Egyptians, but it does not change anything I have factually laid out here in this discussion.

Are you sure, you are Jewish? You don't seem to like the fact I am able to show That Israel is for Jews, and Jews alone, and has been for 4,000 years.

The discussion became religious in nature when the discussion was about WHO IS INDIGENOUS to ISRAEL or PALESTINE, Jew or Arab.....????

The Palestinians had lived in that territory for thousands of years without dispute. Then some settlers came down from Europe, who had no record that any of them had any ancestors from that territory, and claimed it for themselves.

That is absolutely false. There is both Genetic Evidence through DNA, Historical Evidence via Granite Monuments commemorating battles with Israel, documents, from Egyptian Scrolls written on Papyrus, to the Dead Sea Scrolls, and even a Copper plate found, and other stone monuments that show that The Hebrews & Israel has existed for 4,000 years occupying the area and beyond what we call modern day Israel.

There is No such thing as a Palestinian unless you want to talk about a Racial Slur The Roman Empire created to ridicule and insult Jews living in Israel under Roman Occupation.

Secret of Dead Sea Copper Scroll Unlocked, Revealing Location of Lost Temple Treasures

8 Jewish archaeological discoveries


Ceramic shard may bear oldest Hebrew inscription

A 6-by-6-inch pottery shard unearthed at the archaeological dig site of Hirbet Qeiyafa (the Elah Fortress) in Israel, shown here, contains five lines of faded characters that may bear the oldest Hebrew inscription ever found. The 3,000-year-old text dates to the time of the Hebrew Bible's King David and is thought to be written in proto-Canaanite, a precursor to the Hebrew alphabet. While other people used proto-Canaanite characters as well, the inscription contains a three-letter verb meaning "to do" that existed only in Hebrew, according to Yossi Garfinkel, a Hebrew University archaeologist in charge of the dig. "That leads us to believe that this is Hebrew, and that this is the oldest Hebrew inscription that has been found," he told the Associated Press. Other scholars, however, have urged caution until more is known about the inscription and its context.

So, did the Palestinians just fall out of the sky in 1924?

Yes.

Syria, Egypt and Jordan launched them over the Israeli border in catapults.

There is no such thing as a Palestinian.

That word is a racial slur The Roman Empire came up with to humiliate and insult Jews. It is equivalent of using The "N" word. So everytime you call the Arabs in that area a Palestinian, you are calling them The "N" word.

Hilarious that we can't say the "N" word, but we can call an Arab an "N" word when we call him a Palestinian.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You keep clinging to this 1924 date (year of the Treaty of Lausanne), as if it was a birth of the Palestinian. You try to equate what the term "Palestine" meant then to the "Palestine" of today. The word is the same, but the meaning evolved.

You cling to the Treaty of Lausanne as if it had a special impact on the Palestinians of today. But you forget that the Treaty of Lausanne does not even mention "Palestine." Nor does the Treaty confer any special relationship or authority to the inhabitance of the territory.

So, did the Palestinians just fall out of the sky in 1924?

(COMMENT)

The Palestinians of 1924 were the name designation of the of the inhabitants under the Government of Palestine (GoP). The GoP was the generalization for the territory to which the British Mandate for Palestine applied. In 1924, the term "Palestine" (not mentioned even once in the treaty) meant something entirely different than the meaning in which you are trying to fit upon it today.

(IN SHORT)

• To answer your Question: Did the Palestinians just fall out of the sky in 1924?

⟴ No. The designation was an apolitical name given to the people of the territory within such boundaries as was fixed by the Allied Powers and the Mandatory selected by the Allied Powers.

For the purposes of The Palestine Order in Council (1922) pending the introduction of an Order in Council (ie the Citizenship Order of 1925) regulating Palestinian citizenship, the following persons were considered Palestinian citizens:

◈ All persons having a residence within such boundaries as was fixed by the Allied Powers at the time the Palestine Legislative Council Election Order (1922) went into effect.

◈ All other persons making application to, and subsequently approved by, the Office of the High Commissioner.
​

Most Respectfully.
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You keep clinging to this 1924 date (year of the Treaty of Lausanne), as if it was a birth of the Palestinian. You try to equate what the term "Palestine" meant then to the "Palestine" of today. The word is the same, but the meaning evolved.

You cling to the Treaty of Lausanne as if it had a special impact on the Palestinians of today. But you forget that the Treaty of Lausanne does not even mention "Palestine." Nor does the Treaty confer any special relationship or authority to the inhabitance of the territory.

So, did the Palestinians just fall out of the sky in 1924?

(COMMENT)

The Palestinians of 1924 were the name designation of the of the inhabitants under the Government of Palestine (GoP). The GoP was the generalization for the territory to which the British Mandate for Palestine applied. In 1924, the term "Palestine" (not mentioned even once in the treaty) meant something entirely different than the meaning in which you are trying to fit upon it today.

(IN SHORT)

• To answer your Question: Did the Palestinians just fall out of the sky in 1924?

⟴ No. The designation was an apolitical name given to the people of the territory within such boundaries as was fixed by the Allied Powers and the Mandatory selected by the Allied Powers.

For the purposes of The Palestine Order in Council (1922) pending the introduction of an Order in Council (ie the Citizenship Order of 1925) regulating Palestinian citizenship, the following persons were considered Palestinian citizens:

◈ All persons having a residence within such boundaries as was fixed by the Allied Powers at the time the Palestine Legislative Council Election Order (1922) went into effect.

◈ All other persons making application to, and subsequently approved by, the Office of the High Commissioner.
​

Most Respectfully.
R

In 1922 Palestine was occupied enemy (Ottoman) territory. In 1924 those preliminary borders and Palestinian citizenship became dejure facts. The borders were set as Palestine's international borders. These international borders were referenced by the UN in the 1949 armistice agreements. Unchanged to today. The Palestinians became citizens of Palestine by treaty and international law. Later to become Palestinian citizens by domestic law in 1925.

No foreign powers have the authority to change these legal factors.

 

[Hollie]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You keep clinging to this 1924 date (year of the Treaty of Lausanne), as if it was a birth of the Palestinian. You try to equate what the term "Palestine" meant then to the "Palestine" of today. The word is the same, but the meaning evolved.

You cling to the Treaty of Lausanne as if it had a special impact on the Palestinians of today. But you forget that the Treaty of Lausanne does not even mention "Palestine." Nor does the Treaty confer any special relationship or authority to the inhabitance of the territory.

So, did the Palestinians just fall out of the sky in 1924?

(COMMENT)

The Palestinians of 1924 were the name designation of the of the inhabitants under the Government of Palestine (GoP). The GoP was the generalization for the territory to which the British Mandate for Palestine applied. In 1924, the term "Palestine" (not mentioned even once in the treaty) meant something entirely different than the meaning in which you are trying to fit upon it today.

(IN SHORT)

• To answer your Question: Did the Palestinians just fall out of the sky in 1924?

⟴ No. The designation was an apolitical name given to the people of the territory within such boundaries as was fixed by the Allied Powers and the Mandatory selected by the Allied Powers.

For the purposes of The Palestine Order in Council (1922) pending the introduction of an Order in Council (ie the Citizenship Order of 1925) regulating Palestinian citizenship, the following persons were considered Palestinian citizens:

◈ All persons having a residence within such boundaries as was fixed by the Allied Powers at the time the Palestine Legislative Council Election Order (1922) went into effect.

◈ All other persons making application to, and subsequently approved by, the Office of the High Commissioner.
​

Most Respectfully.
R

In 1922 Palestine was occupied enemy (Ottoman) territory. In 1924 those preliminary borders and Palestinian citizenship became dejure facts. The borders were set as Palestine's international borders. These international borders were referenced by the UN in the 1949 armistice agreements. Unchanged to today. The Palestinians became citizens of Palestine by treaty and international law. Later to become Palestinian citizens by domestic law in 1925.

No foreign powers have the authority to change these legal factors.

So then, you're back to again writing your own version of history.

Tell us again how the Treaty of Lausanne created your invented "country of Pal'istan"

Interesting how you describe dejure facts as becoming, you know, facts.

 

[The Original Tree]

People making all of these crazy arguments keep leaving out the fact that when discussing Palestine that it was divided in two. All of so called "Palestine" West of The Jordan to The Mediterranean is The Homeland of The Jews. All of so called "Palestine" East of The River Jordan is Transjordan and is desiginated as the homeland of any Arabs living in Palestine who want to settle there.

There are two Palestines. East Palestine, and West Palestine.

It would be easy to resolve this entire issue, if people would just go settle their designated areas, and leave each other alone.

You may even want to call that idea, a two state solution, but these two states have been in existence for 100 years, and still you can not get The Arabs to accept the two state solution. They reject every single agreement and have for the past 100 years.

They want all of it, despite the fact that they have millions of square miles of territory dwarfing the size of The United States for themselves all surrounding Israel, already, and Israel is no bigger than The State of New Jersey!

West Palestine (Israel)

East Palestine

Palestine (East & West)

Mandatory Palestine - Wikipedia

 

[Shusha]

In 1924 those preliminary borders and Palestinian citizenship became dejure facts. The borders were set as Palestine's international borders. These international borders were referenced by the UN in the 1949 armistice agreements. Unchanged to today. The Palestinians became citizens of Palestine by treaty and international law. Later to become Palestinian citizens by domestic law in 1925.

Sure. Sort of. But states don't just pop into being without a government and a few other things, like the ability to act on the international stage. The fact that the borders of a particular territory were set does NOT cause a State to come into being.

That was the whole POINT of the Mandates. Those territories were not yet capable of self-government and statehood. The Mandates were to ensure that emerging territories which weren't properly self-governed didn't dissolve into the crappy, terrorist-riddled, tyrant-controlled, who-gives-a-crap-about-the-citizens, pockets of ugliness (you know, like Gaza and the "West Bank").

And you keep forgetting (cough cough) that those international borders enclosed the intended National Homeland for the Jewish people. And that the Jewish people are capable of self-government and statehood. And they have it.

No foreign powers have the authority to change these legal factors.

Sure. Sort of. But internal groups DO. That is what self-determination IS.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

So then, you're back to again writing your own version of history. Interesting how you describe dejure facts as becoming, you know, facts.

(COMMENT)

Our friend Hollie is absolutely correct (supra)... You are altering the historical facts.

In 1922 Palestine was occupied enemy (Ottoman) territory. In 1924 those preliminary borders and Palestinian citizenship became dejure facts. The borders were set as Palestine's international borders. These international borders were referenced by the UN in the 1949 armistice agreements. Unchanged to today. The Palestinians became citizens of Palestine by treaty and international law. Later to become Palestinian citizens by domestic law in 1925.

No foreign powers have the authority to change these legal factors.

(COMMENT)

A few months after the San Remo Convention (April 1920) the Allied Powers transitioned the holding under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) (1918 → 1920) over much or the Levant (included all of the Eastern Mediterranean) → and the subdivisions which we are concerned with here (Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip). And the OETA relinquished the British portion of the OETA in June 1920 to the "Interim Civil Administration." By definition, on the handover of the OETA to the Civil Administration, the Occupation ended no longer being under the authority of the hostile army (Article 42, Hague Regulation of 1907).

In regards to the demarcation between Israel and the Egyptian Military Governorship, which is today called the Gaza Strip, the Armistice said:

2. The Armistice Demarcation Line is not to be construed in any sense as a political or territorial boundary and is delineated without prejudice to rights, claims, and positions of either Party to the Armistice as regards ultimate settlement of the Palestine question.

Even if the Armistice did say something to support a Hostile Arab Palestinian Claim

• The Hostile Arab Palestinians nor the Arab High Committee were parties to the Armistice.

• The Armistice Agreement became historical in nature ONLY when, embedded by agreement, upon the peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved. See: Treaty of Peace between the Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel, • 26 March 1979 •​

Similarly, the Armistice and Treaty between Israel and Jordan had nearly the same stipulations.

• "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved"

• "The Armistice Demarcation Lines defined in articles V and VI of this Agreement are agreed upon by the Parties without prejudice to future territorial settlements or boundary lines or to claims of either Party relating thereto."​

As you are already aware, the Permanent International boundaries are specified in the associated Peace Treaty.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

So then, you're back to again writing your own version of history. Interesting how you describe dejure facts as becoming, you know, facts.

(COMMENT)

Our friend Hollie is absolutely correct (supra)... You are altering the historical facts.

In 1922 Palestine was occupied enemy (Ottoman) territory. In 1924 those preliminary borders and Palestinian citizenship became dejure facts. The borders were set as Palestine's international borders. These international borders were referenced by the UN in the 1949 armistice agreements. Unchanged to today. The Palestinians became citizens of Palestine by treaty and international law. Later to become Palestinian citizens by domestic law in 1925.

No foreign powers have the authority to change these legal factors.

(COMMENT)

A few months after the San Remo Convention (April 1920) the Allied Powers transitioned the holding under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) (1918 → 1920) over much or the Levant (included all of the Eastern Mediterranean) → and the subdivisions which we are concerned with here (Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip). And the OETA relinquished the British portion of the OETA in June 1920 to the "Interim Civil Administration." By definition, on the handover of the OETA to the Civil Administration, the Occupation ended no longer being under the authority of the hostile army (Article 42, Hague Regulation of 1907).

In regards to the demarcation between Israel and the Egyptian Military Governorship, which is today called the Gaza Strip, the Armistice said:

2. The Armistice Demarcation Line is not to be construed in any sense as a political or territorial boundary and is delineated without prejudice to rights, claims, and positions of either Party to the Armistice as regards ultimate settlement of the Palestine question.

Even if the Armistice did say something to support a Hostile Arab Palestinian Claim

• The Hostile Arab Palestinians nor the Arab High Committee were parties to the Armistice.

• The Armistice Agreement became historical in nature ONLY when, embedded by agreement, upon the peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved. See: Treaty of Peace between the Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel, • 26 March 1979 •​

Similarly, the Armistice and Treaty between Israel and Jordan had nearly the same stipulations.

• "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved"

• "The Armistice Demarcation Lines defined in articles V and VI of this Agreement are agreed upon by the Parties without prejudice to future territorial settlements or boundary lines or to claims of either Party relating thereto."​

As you are already aware, the Permanent International boundaries are specified in the associated Peace Treaty.

Most Respectfully,
R

OK, but I don't see where all that addresses my points.

 

[Sixties Fan]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

So then, you're back to again writing your own version of history. Interesting how you describe dejure facts as becoming, you know, facts.

(COMMENT)

Our friend Hollie is absolutely correct (supra)... You are altering the historical facts.

In 1922 Palestine was occupied enemy (Ottoman) territory. In 1924 those preliminary borders and Palestinian citizenship became dejure facts. The borders were set as Palestine's international borders. These international borders were referenced by the UN in the 1949 armistice agreements. Unchanged to today. The Palestinians became citizens of Palestine by treaty and international law. Later to become Palestinian citizens by domestic law in 1925.

No foreign powers have the authority to change these legal factors.

(COMMENT)

A few months after the San Remo Convention (April 1920) the Allied Powers transitioned the holding under the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA) (1918 → 1920) over much or the Levant (included all of the Eastern Mediterranean) → and the subdivisions which we are concerned with here (Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip). And the OETA relinquished the British portion of the OETA in June 1920 to the "Interim Civil Administration." By definition, on the handover of the OETA to the Civil Administration, the Occupation ended no longer being under the authority of the hostile army (Article 42, Hague Regulation of 1907).

In regards to the demarcation between Israel and the Egyptian Military Governorship, which is today called the Gaza Strip, the Armistice said:

2. The Armistice Demarcation Line is not to be construed in any sense as a political or territorial boundary and is delineated without prejudice to rights, claims, and positions of either Party to the Armistice as regards ultimate settlement of the Palestine question.

Even if the Armistice did say something to support a Hostile Arab Palestinian Claim

• The Hostile Arab Palestinians nor the Arab High Committee were parties to the Armistice.

• The Armistice Agreement became historical in nature ONLY when, embedded by agreement, upon the peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved. See: Treaty of Peace between the Arab Republic of Egypt and the State of Israel, • 26 March 1979 •​

Similarly, the Armistice and Treaty between Israel and Jordan had nearly the same stipulations.

• "shall remain in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved"

• "The Armistice Demarcation Lines defined in articles V and VI of this Agreement are agreed upon by the Parties without prejudice to future territorial settlements or boundary lines or to claims of either Party relating thereto."​

As you are already aware, the Permanent International boundaries are specified in the associated Peace Treaty.

Most Respectfully,
R

OK, but I don't see where all that addresses my points.

Your points have been addressed from here to Shanghai. The problem is you do not want it to be true. You cannot deal with the fact that the Arabs are the invaders and the Land of Israel/Palestine is not THEIRS, and that the indigenous Jews managed to legally get some of their land back.

Oh, but it is the SOME which continues to bother you. NONE would be your dream amount.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, but I don't see where all that addresses my points.

(COMMENT)

You don't have a point here. It is a jumble of inaccuracies.

In 1922 Palestine was occupied enemy (Ottoman) territory.

(COMMENT)

No, it was not "occupied" in 1922.

In 1924 those preliminary borders and Palestinian citizenship became dejure facts.

(COMMENT)

I don't know what a "preliminary border" is in relation to international law or international recognition. The demarcation was set by:

The boundaries between the territories under the French mandate of Syria and the Lebanon on the one hand and the British mandates of Mesopotamia and Palestine on the other are determined as follows: LINK TO →

The borders were set as Palestine's international borders.

(COMMENT)

Although the Mandate precluded the parceling of the territory, it did not prohibit the subdivision. The original boundary of the territory to which the Mandate applied did not represent a permanent international boundary to a State known as Palestine.

These international borders were referenced by the UN in the 1949 armistice agreements.

(COMMENT)

No

Unchanged to today. The Palestinians became citizens of Palestine by treaty and international law. Later to become Palestinian citizens by domestic law in 1925

(COMMENT)

No The Palestinian Citizenship Order of 1925 may have been many things, but "domestic law" was not one of them.

And what relevance to the Citizenship, or any othe Order in Council, have to do with domestic approval by the Arab Palestinians. The Arab Palestinians declined to participate in any manner in the governce over the territory. So even if the issue of citizenship was brought to the table for discussion, the Arab Palestinians would not have been present to render a voice on the matter.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[rylah]

There were more than Arabs and Jews living in the Mandate. Therefore your "civil rights of the Arab population" does not exist anywhere in the Balfour Declaration.

In 1920 TransJordan was part of the Mandate for Palestine, as the homeland for the Jewish people. By 1922, the British decided to give TranJordan to the ARAB Hashemites who had just been kicked out of Arabia.
And what did this Arabs do? Interfere with the civil and religious rights of all Jews who lived in TransJordan for thousands of years, and wrote a law prohibiting Jews from ever living there again.

Know history !

Transjordan The East Bank of The Jordan has always been the home of the so called Egyptian-Syrian-Jordanian people living in The West Bank and Gaza who like to call themselves Palestinians.

I do not know where you got that .....

"Transjordan, The East Bank of The Jordan, has always been the home of the so called Egyptian-Syrian-Jordanian people living in The West Bank and Gaza who like to call themselves Palestinians"


......from. You seem to be confusing some things and put them all together.

I will not go into it and try to unravel it.

Since there never was a people known as Palestinians before 1964 CE, I really do not know which source you got that saying from, as it has no validity to it at all.

And "always" for the Arabs began in the 7th Century CE after the Kurdish and Arab Muslim invasion.

Therefore, there hasn't been an "always" presence of those Arabs who now call themselves Palestinians, in Gaza, Areas A and B and even in Israel.

That's not true either. Palestine is what The Roman Empire renamed Israel during their occupation of Israel before the time of Christ over 2,000 years ago. They called Israelis Palestinians at that time. And Israel and the area it was located in has been called Palestine since The Roman Empire occupied it, and The Empire Dissolved. If any argument can ever be made about who The Palestinians are, Hebrews or Israelis is the correct answer.

History of the Jews in the Roman Empire - Wikipedia

Regarding the last 100 years, The Balfour Declaration, and The Mandatory Palestine Declaration handed down by The High Commission of Palestine still referred to Israel as Palestine in general. But also with the 1917 Balfour Declaration, and High Commission of Palestine, and The Peele Commission they differentiated between The Hebrews already living in that area, and the Arabs living in that area.

But you are correct. There actually is not actual genetic population called Palestinians. It's more or less a general term like saying The Middle East, and refers to a locale, namely the general area of Israel and outlying lands and not an actual people.

The Romans name Judea and the area, Israel, Palestine after the 135 CE defeat of Bar Kochba, which was about 100 years AFTER the time of Jesus.
Yes, the people who lived there were Jews, plus a few others, like Greeks, etc. But no Arabs, as the Arabs are trying to say now.

We have no disagreements there.

There is no genetic population called Palestinians, but the Arab leaders and the KGB chose in 1964, to adopt that name (national identity) more in order to confuse the idea that the Arabs are the true indigenous people of the area, and not the descendants of the Hebrews and Israelites.

The Jewish People have not called themselves Hebrews since Israel first came to be 3000 years ago, with King David.

During Roman times they were known as Judeans, or Jews.

They should call themselves Hebrews again.

You are correct to say there were NO ARABS in Israel until around 650 AD when The Roman Empire was dissolving. The Hebrews inhabited Israel long before that. The Babylonian Captivity was a full 1,200 years before that.

Around 4,000 years ago Egypt attacked The Hebrews living in The Promised Land and led many Jews in to Captivity.


Were Hebrews ever slaves in ancient Egypt? Yes

Starting over 4,000 years ago, Semites began crossing the deserts from Palestine into Egypt. The tomb of the high priest Khnumhotep II of the 20th century BCE even shows a scene of Semitic traders bringing offerings to the dead (top picture).

Some of these Semites came to Egypt as traders and immigrants. Others were prisoners of war, and yet others were sold into slavery by their own people. A papyrus mentions a wealthy Egyptian lord whose 77 slaves included 48 of Semitic origin.

Physical evidence of slaves working there isn't likely to have survived. But a leather scroll dating to the time of Ramesses II (1303 BCE-1213 BCE) describes a close account of brick-making apparently by enslaved prisoners of war from an area that can roughly be deduced to be Israel which sounds very much like the biblical account. The scroll describes 40 taskmasters, each with a daily target of 2,000 bricks (see Exodus 5:6).

I call The Israelis Hebrews, because It was The Hebrews who survived The Babylonian and Assyrian Captivities, and they were called Hebrews initially when Rome began to occupy Israel.

Both The Term Jew....from Judea, and Palestine and Palestinian are Greco Roman Terms given to The Hebrews-Israelis. It is more correct then to call a Jew a Hebrew or an Israeli, and to call their Religion Judaism which is the Roman Term they adopted for their religion when many of them lived in Rome and were 'Helenized'. It is still ok to call a Hebrew, or Israeli a Jew, but when you do so, you are referring then more to their religion than their ethnicity.

IT IS NEVER OK to call a Hebrew-Israeli a Palestinian, nor is it ever OK to call Israel Palestine, as that is actually a Racial Slur similar to calling a Black Man the "N" word.

This is why certain peoples love using the word Palestine, and Palestinian as it is an insult to Jewish Peoples, and it has Racist Undertones, and Racist Overtones.

In the Russian language are still called Hebrews.
It is the common,and official term.

A big tribe of Israelis still identify as Hebrews.

 

[The Original Tree]

Wait, I missed this entirely!

I got you to 3,800 Years which means that you and I are just 200 years apart.

I’ll take that!

I'll take Genetics for $5,000 Alex.

The Bible says Ishmael, and Isaac were half brothers. Therefore Israel and Arabs according to the Bible are the offspring of Abraham.

Genetics say That Jews and Arabs have the same Paternal Ancestor.

I assert that I am correct in stating The Arab-Jew Conflict is a Sibling Rivalry with Arabs wanting The Birthright, "The Promised Land" & "The Abrahamic Covenant" that was inherited by Jacob-Israel and given to them by Yahweh.

Are you sure you are a Jew?

Thanks for playing.

Jews and Arabs Share Recent Ancestry
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2000/10/jews-and-arabs-share-recent-ancestry

Jews Are The Genetic Brothers Of Palestinians, Syrians, And Lebanese

Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes

Jewish religion and culture can be traced back to Semitic tribes that lived in the Middle East approximately 4,000 years ago. The Babylonian exile in 586 B.C. marked the beginning of major dispersals of Jewish populations from the Middle East and the development of various Jewish communities outside of present-day Israel (1).

In summary the combined results suggest that a major portion of NRY biallelic diversity present in most of the contemporary Jewish communities surveyed here traces to a common Middle Eastern source population several thousand years ago.

The implication is that this source population included a large number of distinct paternal and maternal lineages, reflecting genetic variation established in the Middle East at that time. In turn, this source diversity has been maintained within Jewish communities, despite numerous migrations during the Diaspora and long-term residence as isolated subpopulations in numerous geographic locations outside of the Middle East.


You never answered my question about why Israel - Jerusalem is a "Cup of Trembling for Many Nations."

You claimed to have read The Bible, yet had no desire to comment on that. Have you read much on The Book of Zechariah? Especially Chapters 11-14.

Thank you for changing Ishmael's origins from being Egyptian to being an Arab, which is something Islam has been doing for 1400 years.

Never mind......that the Arabs kept quiet for 2400 years before Islam was created because they never heard of Ishmael, and much less could care about him, Abraham, Jews, etc.

Keep your religious beliefs, we shall keep our history intact the way it has been for the past 3800 years, before Christians and Muslims decided to borrow, steal and then try to kill all Jews in order for their versions to be the valid ones.

 

[rylah]

Sixties Fan, The Original Tree

I see a lot of agreement, coming from a good place.
As Rabbi Abramowitz said starting at 7:27 in the video::

"Please humble our heart before You, look at us here today, there're Jews, there's Christians, there's fundamental differences in our understandings. There' fundamental understandings, that I as a Jew, believe that they believe is wrong and vice versa. Humble our hearts to come together in love for each other and love for all of mankind, have mercy on us on the generation and the world, and build Your habitation in this world. Build the Beit HaMikdash soon in our days."

 

[The Original Tree]

I want The Third Temple Built Because I know Messiah Bin David will come if it is built.

I’d help build it with my own hands if I were allowed to come to Israel to do that.

I know that building The Temple will bring forth Tribulations, & will usher in judgments upon The Earth and The Wicked, and prophecies in The Book of Daniel and elsewhere will be put in to motion. Let it be so.

“Be it unto me according to Thy Word”

But when The Earth Trembles as a woman about to give birth, I know my redemption draws near, and after that, The Judgment and then Peace, and The Messiah, The Prince of Peace, and a Fountain of Grace will flow out of Jerusalem to wash away The Sins of The People.

Those that Drink The Living Water Shall Never Thirst Again!

Those who will see these days with their own eyes and see it come to pass in Jerusalem shall truly be blessed.

Zacharia

In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.

And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it east to the Dead Sea and half of it west to the Mediterranean Sea, in summer and in winter.

Yahweh will be King over all the earth. In that day Yahweh will be one, and his name one.

Sixties Fan, The Original Tree

I see a lot of agreement, coming from a good place.
As Rabbi Abramowitz said starting at 7:27 in the video::

"Please humble our heart before You, look at us here today, there're Jews, there's Christians, there's fundamental differences in our understandings. There' fundamental understandings, that I as a Jew, believe that they believe is wrong and vice versa. Humble our hearts to come together in love for each other and love for all of mankind, have mercy on us on the generation and the world, and build Your habitation in this world. Build the Beit HaMikdash soon in our days."

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, but I don't see where all that addresses my points.

(COMMENT)

You don't have a point here. It is a jumble of inaccuracies.

In 1922 Palestine was occupied enemy (Ottoman) territory.

(COMMENT)

No, it was not "occupied" in 1922.

In 1924 those preliminary borders and Palestinian citizenship became dejure facts.

(COMMENT)

I don't know what a "preliminary border" is in relation to international law or international recognition. The demarcation was set by:

The boundaries between the territories under the French mandate of Syria and the Lebanon on the one hand and the British mandates of Mesopotamia and Palestine on the other are determined as follows: LINK TO →

The borders were set as Palestine's international borders.

(COMMENT)

Although the Mandate precluded the parceling of the territory, it did not prohibit the subdivision. The original boundary of the territory to which the Mandate applied did not represent a permanent international boundary to a State known as Palestine.

These international borders were referenced by the UN in the 1949 armistice agreements.

(COMMENT)

No

Unchanged to today. The Palestinians became citizens of Palestine by treaty and international law. Later to become Palestinian citizens by domestic law in 1925

(COMMENT)

No The Palestinian Citizenship Order of 1925 may have been many things, but "domestic law" was not one of them.

And what relevance to the Citizenship, or any othe Order in Council, have to do with domestic approval by the Arab Palestinians. The Arab Palestinians declined to participate in any manner in the governce over the territory. So even if the issue of citizenship was brought to the table for discussion, the Arab Palestinians would not have been present to render a voice on the matter.

Most Respectfully,
R

In 1922 Palestine was occupied enemy (Ottoman) territory.

(COMMENT)

No, it was not "occupied" in 1922.

Britain occupied Palestine in 1917. The name of the occupation changed, but Palestine remained under British military occupation until 1948.

 

[Shusha]

I want The Third Temple Built Because I know Messiah Bin David will come if it is built.

I’d help build it with my own hands if I were allowed to come to Israel to do that.

I know that building The Temple will bring forth Tribulations, & will usher in judgments upon The Earth and The Wicked, and prophecies in The Book of Daniel and elsewhere will be put in to motion. Let it be so.

So, I'm curious as to how you imagine what this will actually look like?!

Because while you use a nice "clean" word like "Tribulations" (capital letter, TM), I'm reading it as "Muslims will unleash a genocidal war upon Israel and the Jewish people".

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: The Official Discussion Thread for who is considered indiginous to Palestine?
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OK, but I don't see where all that addresses my points.

(COMMENT)

You don't have a point here. It is a jumble of inaccuracies.

In 1922 Palestine was occupied enemy (Ottoman) territory.

(COMMENT)

No, it was not "occupied" in 1922.

In 1924 those preliminary borders and Palestinian citizenship became dejure facts.

(COMMENT)

I don't know what a "preliminary border" is in relation to international law or international recognition. The demarcation was set by:

The boundaries between the territories under the French mandate of Syria and the Lebanon on the one hand and the British mandates of Mesopotamia and Palestine on the other are determined as follows: LINK TO →

The borders were set as Palestine's international borders.

(COMMENT)

Although the Mandate precluded the parceling of the territory, it did not prohibit the subdivision. The original boundary of the territory to which the Mandate applied did not represent a permanent international boundary to a State known as Palestine.

These international borders were referenced by the UN in the 1949 armistice agreements.

(COMMENT)

No

Unchanged to today. The Palestinians became citizens of Palestine by treaty and international law. Later to become Palestinian citizens by domestic law in 1925

(COMMENT)

No The Palestinian Citizenship Order of 1925 may have been many things, but "domestic law" was not one of them.

And what relevance to the Citizenship, or any othe Order in Council, have to do with domestic approval by the Arab Palestinians. The Arab Palestinians declined to participate in any manner in the governce over the territory. So even if the issue of citizenship was brought to the table for discussion, the Arab Palestinians would not have been present to render a voice on the matter.

Most Respectfully,
R

In 1924 those preliminary borders and Palestinian citizenship became dejure facts.

(COMMENT)

I don't know what a "preliminary border" is in relation to international law or international recognition. The demarcation was set by:

The boundaries between the territories under the French mandate of Syria and the Lebanon on the one hand and the British mandates of Mesopotamia and Palestine on the other are determined as follows: LINK TO →

The last international border was defined with Transjordan. Since this happened before 1924 it is irrelevant in regard to Palestine's international borders.​

 

[The Original Tree]

I want The Third Temple Built Because I know Messiah Bin David will come if it is built.

I’d help build it with my own hands if I were allowed to come to Israel to do that.

I know that building The Temple will bring forth Tribulations, & will usher in judgments upon The Earth and The Wicked, and prophecies in The Book of Daniel and elsewhere will be put in to motion. Let it be so.

So, I'm curious as to how you imagine what this will actually look like?!

Because while you use a nice "clean" word like "Tribulations" (capital letter, TM), I'm reading it as "Muslims will unleash a genocidal war upon Israel and the Jewish people".

More like those that hate Israel will throw themselves against The Mountains of God in suicidal futility. And It’s God they will be at war with.

There will also be The 4 Horseman of The apocalypse White, Red, Black and Green unleashed upon The Earth.

What is the end times timeline?

The 7 trumpets, 7 seals, and 7 bowls.

What are the seven seals, seven trumpets, and seven bowls in the Book of Revelation?

Antichrist and The False Prophet who make a treaty with Israel and in the middle of that treaty defile the temple stirring God’s wrath against them.

Then the final end times battles where God, The Son of God descends from heaven to defend Israel, and defeat all The armies of Earth who come against Israel.

Then comes Judgment day and The millennial reign of Christ who will sit upon the Throne of David in Jerusalem.

When Messiah comes to end all War upon The Earth, All Israel will realize that He had already came 2,000 years ago as Messiah Bin Joseph to suffer for His people and has returned as Messiah Bin David to Rule.

They will mourn over the fact that they did not understand Jesus came to them as Messiah and had to suffer, die and be resurrected to serve as The Lamb of God. The Passover Lamb. But they shall also be happy because Messiah has come. And He will call them His People and they will call Him their God.

For though it was the first Adam who lost his crown and Lordship over The Earth, it is The 2nd Adam, Emanuel, who will restore that crown. Redeemer, Prince of Peace, Wonderful, Counselor, The Lion of The Tribe of Judah.

Messiah will offer Adam his crown again whom he defeated Lucifer for, but Adam will not take his crown in that day. He and all the Saints will throw their crowns at His feet, and cry Holy, Holy, Holy is The Lamb of God, and Peace and knowledge of God will cover the whole Earth.

Zachariah 12:10

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications, And they have looked unto Me whom they pierced, And they have mourned over it, Like a mourning over the only one, And they have been in bitterness for it, Like a bitterness over the first-born.

So as best as I can tell it The return of Messiah will be preceded by trials and tribulations that will try the souls of men. It will separate the wheat from the chaff.

Some will follow Antichrist and The False Prophet, and the righteous will wait upon The Lord. But many harsh things will people have to endure as Messiah draws near.

This is what I meant by “Tribulations”. “Trials and Tribulations”

 

[rylah]

I want The Third Temple Built Because I know Messiah Bin David will come if it is built.

I’d help build it with my own hands if I were allowed to come to Israel to do that.

I know that building The Temple will bring forth Tribulations, & will usher in judgments upon The Earth and The Wicked, and prophecies in The Book of Daniel and elsewhere will be put in to motion. Let it be so.

So, I'm curious as to how you imagine what this will actually look like?!

Because while you use a nice "clean" word like "Tribulations" (capital letter, TM), I'm reading it as "Muslims will unleash a genocidal war upon Israel and the Jewish people".

Didn't they already?
Rambam is the most authoritative Halacha source for the Mssianic period, no one argues this issue, and every great posek who comments on Rambam doesn't touch the subject of Meshiah.

The rule is , good prophecies must materialize, not the bad ones.
We Jews ask for "Rahamim", we cannot fully know because it's dynamic but we'll understand once all Messianic prophecies fulfill. What triggers it is Tshuvah.