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The Nuking of Nagasaki: Even More Immoral and Unnecessary than Hiroshima

Unkotare

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You found one link to one document that you cannot understand in context. You have been provided with dozens and dozens of links to information informing your ignorant ass about the reality of the time, but you have ignored all of them because you stopped thinking long ago.
Wrong all you have EVER linked to is books by revisionist historians with OUT a single source document. I linked to actual SOURCE documents that clearly show that Japan NEVER offered to surrender. NEVER, Read it again NEVER. All the offered was a cease fire and return to 41 start lines and concessions in China. All you have are opiniona, I have actual SOURCE documents with the actual words detailing what was offered and what was NOT.
I understand you are well into your dotage, but you are just acting like senior citizen rain man with your repetition and ignoring piles of evidence. Go have some Jell-O.
Again reject SOURCE Documents, the ACTUAL offers demands and requests verbatim. What do you have? Opinions by revisionists that have no actual evidence to back their claims.
Are you a very good driver?
Again for the slow, my source has the ACTUAL Offers, the actual discussions the official word from the Japanese Government on all occasions. What have you got? Opinions from people that were not even alive at the time.

One. You found one document the translation of which you haven’t a prayer of checking personally and which you misunderstood in context and you haven’t stopped rain manning it ever since. Meanwhile, you have assiduously ignored mountains of historical evidence because you stopped thinking long ago.
You have NOT provided any historical evidence just claims by historians that golly gee the Japanese were gonna surrender HONEST gee whiz. The ACTUAL Documents transmitted from the Japanese Government which I cited and linked to CLEARLY show that all Japan Offered was a ceasefire, return to 41 start lines and NO concessions in China. I am not providing feel good revisionist history I am citing ACTUAL SOURCE DOCUMENTS from OUR Government.
I forgot I had commented here. Anyway, let's pretend for just a moment that they really didn't surrender, that the Japanese Government had no intention of ever surrendering in any way, shape, or form, just for the sake of the argument.

So, how many of the thousands of people incinerated by the two nukes were responsible for that decision, for taking "American" lives, or for anything involving that war besides being tax cattle? What's that, none? They were all or mostly civilians? Gosh, that sounds pretty messed up, it's like the Government just felt like committing mass murder.
Look you clueless idiot in WW2 it was total war all sides bombed all sides. As for never surrendering we were set to invade the main Islands in November with projections of a million casualties on just ONE island. Based on the actions in Saipan and Okinawa MILLIONS of civilians would have died by suicide or mass wave assaulting the beach heads as instructed by their Government. Those bombs actually saved Japanese lives.

You don't get to judge the actions of WW2 using today's morals and values, they were not in existence in 1945.
Bullshit. People in 1945 knew damn well incinerating hundreds of thousands of civilians was wrong. Just because YOU have no morals or values today doesn’t mean no one does or ever did.
 

Pumpkin Row

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You found one link to one document that you cannot understand in context. You have been provided with dozens and dozens of links to information informing your ignorant ass about the reality of the time, but you have ignored all of them because you stopped thinking long ago.
Wrong all you have EVER linked to is books by revisionist historians with OUT a single source document. I linked to actual SOURCE documents that clearly show that Japan NEVER offered to surrender. NEVER, Read it again NEVER. All the offered was a cease fire and return to 41 start lines and concessions in China. All you have are opiniona, I have actual SOURCE documents with the actual words detailing what was offered and what was NOT.
I understand you are well into your dotage, but you are just acting like senior citizen rain man with your repetition and ignoring piles of evidence. Go have some Jell-O.
Again reject SOURCE Documents, the ACTUAL offers demands and requests verbatim. What do you have? Opinions by revisionists that have no actual evidence to back their claims.
Are you a very good driver?
Again for the slow, my source has the ACTUAL Offers, the actual discussions the official word from the Japanese Government on all occasions. What have you got? Opinions from people that were not even alive at the time.

One. You found one document the translation of which you haven’t a prayer of checking personally and which you misunderstood in context and you haven’t stopped rain manning it ever since. Meanwhile, you have assiduously ignored mountains of historical evidence because you stopped thinking long ago.
You have NOT provided any historical evidence just claims by historians that golly gee the Japanese were gonna surrender HONEST gee whiz. The ACTUAL Documents transmitted from the Japanese Government which I cited and linked to CLEARLY show that all Japan Offered was a ceasefire, return to 41 start lines and NO concessions in China. I am not providing feel good revisionist history I am citing ACTUAL SOURCE DOCUMENTS from OUR Government.
I forgot I had commented here. Anyway, let's pretend for just a moment that they really didn't surrender, that the Japanese Government had no intention of ever surrendering in any way, shape, or form, just for the sake of the argument.

So, how many of the thousands of people incinerated by the two nukes were responsible for that decision, for taking "American" lives, or for anything involving that war besides being tax cattle? What's that, none? They were all or mostly civilians? Gosh, that sounds pretty messed up, it's like the Government just felt like committing mass murder.
Look you clueless idiot in WW2 it was total war all sides bombed all sides. As for never surrendering we were set to invade the main Islands in November with projections of a million casualties on just ONE island. Based on the actions in Saipan and Okinawa MILLIONS of civilians would have died by suicide or mass wave assaulting the beach heads as instructed by their Government. Those bombs actually saved Japanese lives.

You don't get to judge the actions of WW2 using today's morals and values, they were not in existence in 1945.

Look, you boot-licking Government cultist; "Total War" doesn't justify outright murdering people completely unrelated to said war. Ethics are objective, murder is murder, and it's not excused just because the Government whose boots you lick is the one doing it. Because a Government kills tons of people doesn't mean it's totally cool to murder tax cattle who had jack-shit to do with it.

No, murdering random-ass civilians didn't save anyone, it murdered thousands. Even if we pretend you're not parroting politician talking points, and you are, that's Consequantialism, which is really just used to justify the most heinous acts mankind has ever committed, it can be used as an excuse for anything.

Yes, I can use "today's morals and values" to judge actions of WW2, ethics are objective and never change. What makes an action wrong is the action itself, not WHEN it was committed, that's freaking retarded. If I went back in time and shot someone in the face, it wouldn't matter what time I traveled to, that would still be screwed up. Likewise, mass murder is inherently unethical.

On the upside, I don't have to ask what your religion is, your holy deity of choice is your beloved holy Government, who can do no wrong in your eyes.
 

RetiredGySgt

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You found one link to one document that you cannot understand in context. You have been provided with dozens and dozens of links to information informing your ignorant ass about the reality of the time, but you have ignored all of them because you stopped thinking long ago.
Wrong all you have EVER linked to is books by revisionist historians with OUT a single source document. I linked to actual SOURCE documents that clearly show that Japan NEVER offered to surrender. NEVER, Read it again NEVER. All the offered was a cease fire and return to 41 start lines and concessions in China. All you have are opiniona, I have actual SOURCE documents with the actual words detailing what was offered and what was NOT.
I understand you are well into your dotage, but you are just acting like senior citizen rain man with your repetition and ignoring piles of evidence. Go have some Jell-O.
Again reject SOURCE Documents, the ACTUAL offers demands and requests verbatim. What do you have? Opinions by revisionists that have no actual evidence to back their claims.
Are you a very good driver?
Again for the slow, my source has the ACTUAL Offers, the actual discussions the official word from the Japanese Government on all occasions. What have you got? Opinions from people that were not even alive at the time.

One. You found one document the translation of which you haven’t a prayer of checking personally and which you misunderstood in context and you haven’t stopped rain manning it ever since. Meanwhile, you have assiduously ignored mountains of historical evidence because you stopped thinking long ago.
You have NOT provided any historical evidence just claims by historians that golly gee the Japanese were gonna surrender HONEST gee whiz. The ACTUAL Documents transmitted from the Japanese Government which I cited and linked to CLEARLY show that all Japan Offered was a ceasefire, return to 41 start lines and NO concessions in China. I am not providing feel good revisionist history I am citing ACTUAL SOURCE DOCUMENTS from OUR Government.
I forgot I had commented here. Anyway, let's pretend for just a moment that they really didn't surrender, that the Japanese Government had no intention of ever surrendering in any way, shape, or form, just for the sake of the argument.

So, how many of the thousands of people incinerated by the two nukes were responsible for that decision, for taking "American" lives, or for anything involving that war besides being tax cattle? What's that, none? They were all or mostly civilians? Gosh, that sounds pretty messed up, it's like the Government just felt like committing mass murder.
Look you clueless idiot in WW2 it was total war all sides bombed all sides. As for never surrendering we were set to invade the main Islands in November with projections of a million casualties on just ONE island. Based on the actions in Saipan and Okinawa MILLIONS of civilians would have died by suicide or mass wave assaulting the beach heads as instructed by their Government. Those bombs actually saved Japanese lives.

You don't get to judge the actions of WW2 using today's morals and values, they were not in existence in 1945.
Bullshit. People in 1945 knew damn well incinerating hundreds of thousands of civilians was wrong. Just because YOU have no morals or values today doesn’t mean no one does or ever did.
You are a moron a liar and a retard. It was KNOWN to every Country in the war that mass bombings were occurring now cite for me the riots the moral outrage or movements in Allied Countries to stop it. It was a different age a different time.
 

RetiredGySgt

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You found one link to one document that you cannot understand in context. You have been provided with dozens and dozens of links to information informing your ignorant ass about the reality of the time, but you have ignored all of them because you stopped thinking long ago.
Wrong all you have EVER linked to is books by revisionist historians with OUT a single source document. I linked to actual SOURCE documents that clearly show that Japan NEVER offered to surrender. NEVER, Read it again NEVER. All the offered was a cease fire and return to 41 start lines and concessions in China. All you have are opiniona, I have actual SOURCE documents with the actual words detailing what was offered and what was NOT.
I understand you are well into your dotage, but you are just acting like senior citizen rain man with your repetition and ignoring piles of evidence. Go have some Jell-O.
Again reject SOURCE Documents, the ACTUAL offers demands and requests verbatim. What do you have? Opinions by revisionists that have no actual evidence to back their claims.
Are you a very good driver?
Again for the slow, my source has the ACTUAL Offers, the actual discussions the official word from the Japanese Government on all occasions. What have you got? Opinions from people that were not even alive at the time.

One. You found one document the translation of which you haven’t a prayer of checking personally and which you misunderstood in context and you haven’t stopped rain manning it ever since. Meanwhile, you have assiduously ignored mountains of historical evidence because you stopped thinking long ago.
You have NOT provided any historical evidence just claims by historians that golly gee the Japanese were gonna surrender HONEST gee whiz. The ACTUAL Documents transmitted from the Japanese Government which I cited and linked to CLEARLY show that all Japan Offered was a ceasefire, return to 41 start lines and NO concessions in China. I am not providing feel good revisionist history I am citing ACTUAL SOURCE DOCUMENTS from OUR Government.
I forgot I had commented here. Anyway, let's pretend for just a moment that they really didn't surrender, that the Japanese Government had no intention of ever surrendering in any way, shape, or form, just for the sake of the argument.

So, how many of the thousands of people incinerated by the two nukes were responsible for that decision, for taking "American" lives, or for anything involving that war besides being tax cattle? What's that, none? They were all or mostly civilians? Gosh, that sounds pretty messed up, it's like the Government just felt like committing mass murder.
Look you clueless idiot in WW2 it was total war all sides bombed all sides. As for never surrendering we were set to invade the main Islands in November with projections of a million casualties on just ONE island. Based on the actions in Saipan and Okinawa MILLIONS of civilians would have died by suicide or mass wave assaulting the beach heads as instructed by their Government. Those bombs actually saved Japanese lives.

You don't get to judge the actions of WW2 using today's morals and values, they were not in existence in 1945.
Look, you boot-licking Government cultist; "Total War" doesn't justify outright murdering people completely unrelated to said war. Ethics are objective, murder is murder, and it's not excused just because the Government whose boots you lick is the one doing it. Because a Government kills tons of people doesn't mean it's totally cool to murder tax cattle who had jack-shit to do with it.

No, murdering random-ass civilians didn't save anyone, it murdered thousands. Even if we pretend you're not parroting politician talking points, and you are, that's Consequantialism, which is really just used to justify the most heinous acts mankind has ever committed, it can be used as an excuse for anything.

Yes, I can use "today's morals and values" to judge actions of WW2, ethics are objective and never change. What makes an action wrong is the action itself, not WHEN it was committed, that's freaking retarded. If I went back in time and shot someone in the face, it wouldn't matter what time I traveled to, that would still be screwed up. Likewise, mass murder is inherently unethical.

On the upside, I don't have to ask what your religion is, your holy deity of choice is your beloved holy Government, who can do no wrong in your eyes.
You IGNORANT ASS, be specific now and cite with links the riots, the movements or attempts to stop allied Countries from mass bombings by the population of said Country in WW2.
 

Unkotare

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You found one link to one document that you cannot understand in context. You have been provided with dozens and dozens of links to information informing your ignorant ass about the reality of the time, but you have ignored all of them because you stopped thinking long ago.
Wrong all you have EVER linked to is books by revisionist historians with OUT a single source document. I linked to actual SOURCE documents that clearly show that Japan NEVER offered to surrender. NEVER, Read it again NEVER. All the offered was a cease fire and return to 41 start lines and concessions in China. All you have are opiniona, I have actual SOURCE documents with the actual words detailing what was offered and what was NOT.
I understand you are well into your dotage, but you are just acting like senior citizen rain man with your repetition and ignoring piles of evidence. Go have some Jell-O.
Again reject SOURCE Documents, the ACTUAL offers demands and requests verbatim. What do you have? Opinions by revisionists that have no actual evidence to back their claims.
Are you a very good driver?
Again for the slow, my source has the ACTUAL Offers, the actual discussions the official word from the Japanese Government on all occasions. What have you got? Opinions from people that were not even alive at the time.

One. You found one document the translation of which you haven’t a prayer of checking personally and which you misunderstood in context and you haven’t stopped rain manning it ever since. Meanwhile, you have assiduously ignored mountains of historical evidence because you stopped thinking long ago.
You have NOT provided any historical evidence just claims by historians that golly gee the Japanese were gonna surrender HONEST gee whiz. The ACTUAL Documents transmitted from the Japanese Government which I cited and linked to CLEARLY show that all Japan Offered was a ceasefire, return to 41 start lines and NO concessions in China. I am not providing feel good revisionist history I am citing ACTUAL SOURCE DOCUMENTS from OUR Government.
I forgot I had commented here. Anyway, let's pretend for just a moment that they really didn't surrender, that the Japanese Government had no intention of ever surrendering in any way, shape, or form, just for the sake of the argument.

So, how many of the thousands of people incinerated by the two nukes were responsible for that decision, for taking "American" lives, or for anything involving that war besides being tax cattle? What's that, none? They were all or mostly civilians? Gosh, that sounds pretty messed up, it's like the Government just felt like committing mass murder.
Look you clueless idiot in WW2 it was total war all sides bombed all sides. As for never surrendering we were set to invade the main Islands in November with projections of a million casualties on just ONE island. Based on the actions in Saipan and Okinawa MILLIONS of civilians would have died by suicide or mass wave assaulting the beach heads as instructed by their Government. Those bombs actually saved Japanese lives.

You don't get to judge the actions of WW2 using today's morals and values, they were not in existence in 1945.
Bullshit. People in 1945 knew damn well incinerating hundreds of thousands of civilians was wrong. Just because YOU have no morals or values today doesn’t mean no one does or ever did.
You are a moron a liar and a retard. It was KNOWN to every Country in the war that mass bombings were occurring now cite for me the riots the moral outrage or movements in Allied Countries to stop it. It was a different age a different time.
You have been shown page after page of quotations from AMERICAN political leaders and military commanders OF THAT TIME who recognized the immorality of slaughtering helpless civilians of an already defeated foe. You ignore mountains of evidence because you can't be bothered (or are unable) to think and lack the courage to face your own un-American lack of morality. You are the epitome of a willfully ignorant intellectual coward
 

RetiredGySgt

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You found one link to one document that you cannot understand in context. You have been provided with dozens and dozens of links to information informing your ignorant ass about the reality of the time, but you have ignored all of them because you stopped thinking long ago.
Wrong all you have EVER linked to is books by revisionist historians with OUT a single source document. I linked to actual SOURCE documents that clearly show that Japan NEVER offered to surrender. NEVER, Read it again NEVER. All the offered was a cease fire and return to 41 start lines and concessions in China. All you have are opiniona, I have actual SOURCE documents with the actual words detailing what was offered and what was NOT.
I understand you are well into your dotage, but you are just acting like senior citizen rain man with your repetition and ignoring piles of evidence. Go have some Jell-O.
Again reject SOURCE Documents, the ACTUAL offers demands and requests verbatim. What do you have? Opinions by revisionists that have no actual evidence to back their claims.
Are you a very good driver?
Again for the slow, my source has the ACTUAL Offers, the actual discussions the official word from the Japanese Government on all occasions. What have you got? Opinions from people that were not even alive at the time.

One. You found one document the translation of which you haven’t a prayer of checking personally and which you misunderstood in context and you haven’t stopped rain manning it ever since. Meanwhile, you have assiduously ignored mountains of historical evidence because you stopped thinking long ago.
You have NOT provided any historical evidence just claims by historians that golly gee the Japanese were gonna surrender HONEST gee whiz. The ACTUAL Documents transmitted from the Japanese Government which I cited and linked to CLEARLY show that all Japan Offered was a ceasefire, return to 41 start lines and NO concessions in China. I am not providing feel good revisionist history I am citing ACTUAL SOURCE DOCUMENTS from OUR Government.
I forgot I had commented here. Anyway, let's pretend for just a moment that they really didn't surrender, that the Japanese Government had no intention of ever surrendering in any way, shape, or form, just for the sake of the argument.

So, how many of the thousands of people incinerated by the two nukes were responsible for that decision, for taking "American" lives, or for anything involving that war besides being tax cattle? What's that, none? They were all or mostly civilians? Gosh, that sounds pretty messed up, it's like the Government just felt like committing mass murder.
Look you clueless idiot in WW2 it was total war all sides bombed all sides. As for never surrendering we were set to invade the main Islands in November with projections of a million casualties on just ONE island. Based on the actions in Saipan and Okinawa MILLIONS of civilians would have died by suicide or mass wave assaulting the beach heads as instructed by their Government. Those bombs actually saved Japanese lives.

You don't get to judge the actions of WW2 using today's morals and values, they were not in existence in 1945.
Bullshit. People in 1945 knew damn well incinerating hundreds of thousands of civilians was wrong. Just because YOU have no morals or values today doesn’t mean no one does or ever did.
You are a moron a liar and a retard. It was KNOWN to every Country in the war that mass bombings were occurring now cite for me the riots the moral outrage or movements in Allied Countries to stop it. It was a different age a different time.
You have been shown page after page of quotations from AMERICAN military commanders OF THAT TIME who recognized the immorality of slaughtering helpless civilians of an already defeated foe. You ignore mountains of evidence because you can't be bothered (or are unable) to think and lack the courage to face your own un-American lack of morality.
In a defeated foe is it.... remind me what their opinion was from 1941 to 1945?
 

Pumpkin Row

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You found one link to one document that you cannot understand in context. You have been provided with dozens and dozens of links to information informing your ignorant ass about the reality of the time, but you have ignored all of them because you stopped thinking long ago.
Wrong all you have EVER linked to is books by revisionist historians with OUT a single source document. I linked to actual SOURCE documents that clearly show that Japan NEVER offered to surrender. NEVER, Read it again NEVER. All the offered was a cease fire and return to 41 start lines and concessions in China. All you have are opiniona, I have actual SOURCE documents with the actual words detailing what was offered and what was NOT.
I understand you are well into your dotage, but you are just acting like senior citizen rain man with your repetition and ignoring piles of evidence. Go have some Jell-O.
Again reject SOURCE Documents, the ACTUAL offers demands and requests verbatim. What do you have? Opinions by revisionists that have no actual evidence to back their claims.
Are you a very good driver?
Again for the slow, my source has the ACTUAL Offers, the actual discussions the official word from the Japanese Government on all occasions. What have you got? Opinions from people that were not even alive at the time.

One. You found one document the translation of which you haven’t a prayer of checking personally and which you misunderstood in context and you haven’t stopped rain manning it ever since. Meanwhile, you have assiduously ignored mountains of historical evidence because you stopped thinking long ago.
You have NOT provided any historical evidence just claims by historians that golly gee the Japanese were gonna surrender HONEST gee whiz. The ACTUAL Documents transmitted from the Japanese Government which I cited and linked to CLEARLY show that all Japan Offered was a ceasefire, return to 41 start lines and NO concessions in China. I am not providing feel good revisionist history I am citing ACTUAL SOURCE DOCUMENTS from OUR Government.
I forgot I had commented here. Anyway, let's pretend for just a moment that they really didn't surrender, that the Japanese Government had no intention of ever surrendering in any way, shape, or form, just for the sake of the argument.

So, how many of the thousands of people incinerated by the two nukes were responsible for that decision, for taking "American" lives, or for anything involving that war besides being tax cattle? What's that, none? They were all or mostly civilians? Gosh, that sounds pretty messed up, it's like the Government just felt like committing mass murder.
Look you clueless idiot in WW2 it was total war all sides bombed all sides. As for never surrendering we were set to invade the main Islands in November with projections of a million casualties on just ONE island. Based on the actions in Saipan and Okinawa MILLIONS of civilians would have died by suicide or mass wave assaulting the beach heads as instructed by their Government. Those bombs actually saved Japanese lives.

You don't get to judge the actions of WW2 using today's morals and values, they were not in existence in 1945.
Look, you boot-licking Government cultist; "Total War" doesn't justify outright murdering people completely unrelated to said war. Ethics are objective, murder is murder, and it's not excused just because the Government whose boots you lick is the one doing it. Because a Government kills tons of people doesn't mean it's totally cool to murder tax cattle who had jack-shit to do with it.

No, murdering random-ass civilians didn't save anyone, it murdered thousands. Even if we pretend you're not parroting politician talking points, and you are, that's Consequantialism, which is really just used to justify the most heinous acts mankind has ever committed, it can be used as an excuse for anything.

Yes, I can use "today's morals and values" to judge actions of WW2, ethics are objective and never change. What makes an action wrong is the action itself, not WHEN it was committed, that's freaking retarded. If I went back in time and shot someone in the face, it wouldn't matter what time I traveled to, that would still be screwed up. Likewise, mass murder is inherently unethical.

On the upside, I don't have to ask what your religion is, your holy deity of choice is your beloved holy Government, who can do no wrong in your eyes.
You IGNORANT ASS, be specific now and cite with links the riots, the movements or attempts to stop allied Countries from mass bombings by the population of said Country in WW2.

That's a complete non sequitur. You COMPLETELY failed to respond to a single solitary thing I said. Due to that, I'm going to just conclude that you have no arguments against objective ethics.

Next, in response to your non sequitur, neither of those things matter. At all. Whether or not people riot or form movements doesn't affect whether or not an action is wrong, that's an appeal to popularity, if even that. A group of people don't have to riot to determine whether or not something is ethical, that's actually retarded.

Oh, you could also be trying to say that it's totally cool to murder innocent people with nukes if they're not rioting. That'd be retarded, too, though.
 

RetiredGySgt

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EVERYONE knew we were bombing cities and almost no one complained or cared because they felt it was JUSTIFIED. There was no ethical dilemma, no moral outrage and no one gave two shits that bad people died in bombings. As for your innocent civilians, where EXACTLY do you think soldiers come from? In the case of Japan the Government ORDERED the citizens to prepare to human wave assault the landing beaches with bamboo spears. The evidence of Saipan and Okinawa showed clearly that a MAJORITY of the population would IN FACT do as ordered. Spears were prepared and being stockpiled for that very purpose. In Japan there were no citizens that fought with or disagreed with the Emperor or his Government.
 

JoeB131

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Sez you

japan didnt surrender when russia entered the bit after we dropped the bomb on them

though I’m sure having to fight russia hastened their decision
Actually, it was the only factor. The bombs weren't that big of a deal, we had been bombing Japan for months.

Knowing they were going to lose Manchuria and Korea to the Russians, that hastened their decision.
 

JoeB131

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Bullshit. People in 1945 knew damn well incinerating hundreds of thousands of civilians was wrong. Just because YOU have no morals or values today doesn’t mean no one does or ever did.
Actually, nobody in 1945 really thought incinerating Japs was a bad thing. They remembered Pearl Harbor and the Rape of Nanking and the Bataan Death March and they had no problem with it.

TODAY, we wring our hands about it because we've lived generations under the threat of nuclear annihilation. At the time, not so much.
 

Mac-7

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Sez you

japan didnt surrender when russia entered the bit after we dropped the bomb on them

though I’m sure having to fight russia hastened their decision
Actually, it was the only factor. The bombs weren't that big of a deal, we had been bombing Japan for months.

Knowing they were going to lose Manchuria and Korea to the Russians, that hastened their decision.
You are mistaken

what you are giving is revisionist history

the war would not have ended any other way without an invasion of japan with great loss of life
 

Pumpkin Row

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EVERYONE knew we were bombing cities and almost no one complained or cared because they felt it was JUSTIFIED. There was no ethical dilemma, no moral outrage and no one gave two shits that bad people died in bombings. As for your innocent civilians, where EXACTLY do you think soldiers come from? In the case of Japan the Government ORDERED the citizens to prepare to human wave assault the landing beaches with bamboo spears. The evidence of Saipan and Okinawa showed clearly that a MAJORITY of the population would IN FACT do as ordered. Spears were prepared and being stockpiled for that very purpose. In Japan there were no citizens that fought with or disagreed with the Emperor or his Government.

OH, you avoided quoting me, hoping I wouldn't notice. Cute.

First, "everyone knew and nobody complained" doesn't mean it's totally fine to incinerate innocent people, that's, again, an appeal to popularity fallacy at best, and popular opinion does not determine ethics. These were dealings between two Governments, both of which commit mass murder. The people left in the cities had nothing to do with that, as I said earlier, they were tax cattle.

Secondly, "where do you think soldiers come from" is just as retarded as everything ELSE you've said here. Where do murderers come from? Well, shit, since they come from the 'general population' and everyone is capable of murder, a potential murderer, then it must be totally fine to just annihilate all of humanity, by your logic.

Lastly, I'll just assume you're right. I'll assume that all of the people were totally cool with the lying sociopaths in Government ordering them to prepare to defend their homes with bamboo spears provided a military force that has a reputation for murdering civilians was going to show up and attack them instead of the Government and military responsible for the war; Tell me, boot-licker, if a bunch of violent murderers showed up to attack YOUR home, would you just cuck out like you do with your beloved holy Government when it steals money from you, or defend yourself?

If we're not pretending, we can conclude "WELL THEY WERE TOLD TO DO THIS" is pretty meaningless until someone actually hurts someone else. Your argument is essentially that if I told you to go curbstomp your neighbor, you should be outright murdered because you orders to kill someone. So, whether they were actually going to defend themselves or cuck out like you seem to want them to, incinerating thousands of innocent people is not justified. All you're doing is lobbing excuses.

The way I see it, the only real targets for a nuke, even by statist standards, would be the 'enemy' Government, or any number of military bases. Instead, your holy Government incinerated thousands of women and children. As far as I'm concerned, if you advocate for mass murder of innocent people, you're an irredeemable psychopath.
 

Picaro

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You found one link to one document that you cannot understand in context. You have been provided with dozens and dozens of links to information informing your ignorant ass about the reality of the time, but you have ignored all of them because you stopped thinking long ago.
Wrong all you have EVER linked to is books by revisionist historians with OUT a single source document. I linked to actual SOURCE documents that clearly show that Japan NEVER offered to surrender. NEVER, Read it again NEVER. All the offered was a cease fire and return to 41 start lines and concessions in China. All you have are opiniona, I have actual SOURCE documents with the actual words detailing what was offered and what was NOT.
I understand you are well into your dotage, but you are just acting like senior citizen rain man with your repetition and ignoring piles of evidence. Go have some Jell-O.
Again reject SOURCE Documents, the ACTUAL offers demands and requests verbatim. What do you have? Opinions by revisionists that have no actual evidence to back their claims.
Are you a very good driver?
Again for the slow, my source has the ACTUAL Offers, the actual discussions the official word from the Japanese Government on all occasions. What have you got? Opinions from people that were not even alive at the time.

One. You found one document the translation of which you haven’t a prayer of checking personally and which you misunderstood in context and you haven’t stopped rain manning it ever since. Meanwhile, you have assiduously ignored mountains of historical evidence because you stopped thinking long ago.
You have NOT provided any historical evidence just claims by historians that golly gee the Japanese were gonna surrender HONEST gee whiz. The ACTUAL Documents transmitted from the Japanese Government which I cited and linked to CLEARLY show that all Japan Offered was a ceasefire, return to 41 start lines and NO concessions in China. I am not providing feel good revisionist history I am citing ACTUAL SOURCE DOCUMENTS from OUR Government.
Thanks for those links. I have them somewhere, but lost them long ago, but to a different site that is no longer available.
 

JoeB131

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You are mistaken

what you are giving is revisionist history

the war would not have ended any other way without an invasion of japan with great loss of life
Actually, the war was over when the USSR entered it. Japan had hoped to get Stalin to broker a peace with the Americans. Instead, when it was clear Stalin just wanted to grab some of their territory, it was a matter of just negotiating the best deal they could.

Now, this actually cut both ways. The other thing that happened was that the US dropped its demand that they decide the fate of Hirohito (A guy who should have ended up on the business end of a noose with the rest of the war criminals). When the USSR got into it, and it looked like they were going to grab a lot of territory very quickly, the US Suddenly were totally cool with Hirohito keeping his job.
 

Mac-7

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You are mistaken

what you are giving is revisionist history

the war would not have ended any other way without an invasion of japan with great loss of life
Actually, the war was over when the USSR entered it. Japan had hoped to get Stalin to broker a peace with the Americans. Instead, when it was clear Stalin just wanted to grab some of their territory, it was a matter of just negotiating the best deal they could.

Now, this actually cut both ways. The other thing that happened was that the US dropped its demand that they decide the fate of Hirohito (A guy who should have ended up on the business end of a noose with the rest of the war criminals). When the USSR got into it, and it looked like they were going to grab a lot of territory very quickly, the US Suddenly were totally cool with Hirohito keeping his job.
Thats mostly true

we did compromise on hirohito because of fear of the soviets
 

Pumpkin Row

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LOL calling American troops murderers and psychopaths is all I need to hear from you, you loon.
Oh, I know, imagine thinking that someone who murders people on behalf of an organization that dismembers thousands of children is a murderer or psychopath, especially given the number of civilian casualties in Government operations. It's such a confusing concept.

Oh, hey, don't forget to polish that boot you're deepthroating while you refuse to engage with any of my points due to fear of your world view being challenged, Government Cultist.
 

JoeB131

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Thats mostly true

we did compromise on hirohito because of fear of the soviets
How many people died on all sides while we were dicking around on what to do about Hirohito?

Yes, the fact that we didn't want the Soviets occupying ALL of Korea, China and Half of Japan was why we knuckled under...
 

Mac-7

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Thats mostly true

we did compromise on hirohito because of fear of the soviets
How many people died on all sides while we were dicking around on what to do about Hirohito?

Yes, the fact that we didn't want the Soviets occupying ALL of Korea, China and Half of Japan was why we knuckled under...
No many Americans and thats all that counted at the time

we had already taken okinawa and were transporting soldiers from europe to the pacific

the invasion would have caused more deaths, American and japanese, than the atomic bombs killed
 

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