The Nuking of Nagasaki: Even More Immoral and Unnecessary than Hiroshima

[Mushroom]

The army survey group which studied this issue extensively said no invasion was ever going to be needed

Is that the same "Army" that believed that the US would only have 23-31,000 casualties in an actual invasion of Japan?

 

[ding]

The 1946 United States Strategic Bombing Survey in Japan, whose members included Paul Nitze,[89] concluded the atomic bombs had been unnecessary to win the war. They said:

But it was to make Japan surrender. How do we know? Because they surrendered after we dropped the 2nd bomb.

 

[Vegasgiants]

Is that the same "Army" that believed that the US would only have 23-31,000 casualties in an actual invasion of Japan?

An invasion they determined would never have been needed

 

[RetiredGySgt]

And the military experts say you are wrong


I'll go with them

LOL hundreds of Military experts from WW2 and you believe a couple when the vast vast Majority supported the bombing as evidenced by them not criticizing it

 

[Vegasgiants]

LOL hundreds of Military experts from WW2 and you believe a couple when the vast vast Majority supported the bombing as evidenced by them not criticizing it

Again....you are dismissed

 

[Vegasgiants]

Japan would never have ended the war otherwise. Bushido would not have allowed it. Under the Bushido Code, surrender was cowardly, and even death by suicide was preferred over it. That is why over and over on every battle prior, the remainders of the Japanese forces would mount suicide charges and fight to the last man in a hopeless charge. Better to die than surrender.

On Saipan, over 5,000 civilians killed themselves (many by throwing their families off of cliffs) rather than surrender.



And the pre-war civilian population of that island was less than 50,000 people. Many of them natives, and not Japanese. Yet, over 10% of them killed themselves rather than surrender.

Now, convert that to Japan

Over 73 million people. So over 7 million dead by suicide alone.

Even to this day, suicide is a problem in Japan, because culturally they do not have a prohibition against it. In fact, culturally they accept and endorse it even to this day. Better to die than to suffer humiliation and failure.

The problem, is that you do not understand Japanese culture. You especially do not understand Japanese culture in the Showa era. You act like they were Europeans, and would surrender when it was obvious they could not win. That was not the culture, they would have fought to the last man, as they had on every island prior to the dropping of the bombs. With mass suicides if that failed.

The bombs gave them an "easy out". Even for those drenched in Bushido, they could accept that ending the war (not surrender, I use that term but in reality Japan never surrendered) was the only alternative. Which is why their Emperor told them to "endure the unendurable".

Well we have your opinion and the opinion of the army and all the military experts


So theres that

 

[ding]

An invasion they determined would never have been needed

Because they surrendered after we dropped the 2nd bomb which is why it was dropped in the first place.

 

[Mushroom]

The 1946 United States Strategic Bombing Survey in Japan, whose members included Paul Nitze,[89] concluded the atomic bombs had been unnecessary to win the war. They said:

Which as I keep pointing out, is worthless because Germany was not Japan.

 

[Vegasgiants]

Which as I keep pointing out, is worthless because Germany was not Japan.

You have an opinion


They have an opinion



They are smarter than you



Case closed

 

[ding]

Well we have your opinion and the opinion of the army and all the military experts


So theres that

Except they didn't refuse the orders and resign. So this was all after the fact.

"...Although in later decades there was considerable debate about whether the bombings were ethically justified, virtually all of America’s political and military leadership, as well as most of those involved in the atomic bomb project, believed at the time that Truman’s decision was correct..."

The decision to use the atomic bomb​

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"...Truman faced almost no pressure whatever to reexamine his own inclinations..."

The decision to use the atomic bomb​

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In later years, several key figures, including General Dwight D. Eisenhower, General Douglas MacArthur, Admiral William Leahy, and Assistant Secretary of War John J. McCloy, claimed to have opposed using the bomb, but there is no firm evidence of any substantial contemporary opposition.

The decision to use the atomic bomb​

 

[Mushroom]

Well we have your opinion and the opinion of the army and all the military experts

Well, how about the opinions of General MacArthur's staff. Who basically told the General that he was full of shit, and he buried their report so nobody would see it?

He said 23,000 casualties, his staff told him over 300,000 casualties.

This is in a courtroom called "credibility". And in this aspect, most of your "experts" have little to none. Because the Battles of Saipan and Okinawa proves they did not know what they were talking about.

 

[Vegasgiants]

The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace. The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military point of view, in the defeat of Japan.

— Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the U.S. Pacific Fleet, [91]

 

[Vegasgiants]

Well, how about the opinions of General MacArthur's staff. Who basically told the General that he was full of shit, and he buried their report so nobody would see it?

He said 23,000 casualties, his staff told him over 300,000 casualties.

This is in a courtroom called "credibility". And in this aspect, most of your "experts" have little to none. Because the Battles of Saipan and Okinawa proves they did not know what they were talking about.

I see no evidence for your claim

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Well we have your opinion and the opinion of the army and all the military experts


So theres that

Not all you lying sack of shit a couple out of hundreds,

 

[Mushroom]

You have an opinion


They have an opinion



They are smarter than you



Case closed

Then tell me.

If they were so sure, why did not a single one of them speak out against the Invasion of Japan?

Why were every single one of them roaring full steam ahead for Operation Downfall? If they were so fucking sure that Japan was "about to surrender", why were they still working as hard and fast as they could to prepare for the invasion?

Because in reality, most were only told of the bombs right before they were dropped. And they saw their dreams of glory smashed. But please, find a single one of them before the bombs that believed that Japan was about to surrender.

 

[Vegasgiants]

Not all you lying sack of shit a couple out of hundreds,

You have conceded

Carry on

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You have conceded

Carry on

You keep lying and ignoring facts.

 

[there4eyeM]

Visceral feelings are all that remain here, and they are impossible to change. Some feel that incinerating so many so heartlessly is deeply disturbing. Others feel that any comment that reflects other than positively on any aspect of U.S. history is anathema.
So be it.

 

[Vegasgiants]

Then tell me.

If they were so sure, why did not a single one of them speak out against the Invasion of Japan?

Why were every single one of them roaring full steam ahead for Operation Downfall? If they were so fucking sure that Japan was "about to surrender", why were they still working as hard and fast as they could to prepare for the invasion?

Because in reality, most were only told of the bombs right before they were dropped. And they saw their dreams of glory smashed. But please, find a single one of them before the bombs that believed that Japan was about to surrender.

Anyone who has spent one day in the military knows you plan for any possibility no matter how remote

 

[Vegasgiants]

You keep lying and ignoring facts.

You're dismissed