The next offensive must focus on decimating the IRGC.

Yes. Power stations are not difficult targets. Neither are large oil facilities. We have normally done that since Iraq War I.

There are a lot of targets and many of those targets are covered with air defence. And you don't have that many missiles.
Not disagreeing. I am saying it can be done. If desired we can hit their water reservoirs and piping systems as well. Its what the Russians would do.
America already tried to do it in Iraq and Yemen with pretty insignificant effect. What makes you think, that this time you'll be successful and, what is more important, Iranians will fall in love with you and sign a peace treaty?
 
I'm not talking about "probabilities", as if were playing roulette and the ball was totally independent from our will, and if there is "red" - I win, and if there is "black" - you win. I'm talking about "possibilities", as if we were playing chess. Like "If your move your pawn e2-e4, and my next move is pawn e7-e5, you won't be able to move this your pawn further without removing my pawn by your other pieces. Two pawns facing each other block each other."
Nuclear war is not like chess.
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Absolute majority of Iranians support their regime. Don't imagine that Iranians are subhumans and one hundred thousand of however well trained guardsmen can keep in fear 92 million of them (including regular Army, Police, businessmen and all other people). It just doesn't work that way in human society.
Wrong.
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Russia and China are not ready to lose Iran.
It's just your wishful thinking. And what if they are stupid enough to give Iran nukes.
Then they are responsible for what happens to them. Nuclear war is not worth the risk.
There is nothing to gain by giving nukes to Iran, and everything to lose.
What if Iran doesn't surrender and you face anti-Trump rebellion (or voting) in America? Will you bomb and shoot Democrats as well?
Trump will be in office until January 2029. No election will change that. Democrats can piss and moan all they want.
No matter what price oil goes to, we will still be able to pay for it, while Iran will be totally devastated, especially if Trump continues the bombing.
It's not why Trump started this war.
True. Trump started the war to end Iran's nuclear ambitions.
 
How’d that work out in Afghanistan? Its the Same playbook you want to use in Iran....
Iran is nothing like AFG, except that the Taliban and crazy mullahs in Iran are both vicious thugs.
Iran has an oil economy and the US blockade is devastating to Iran's economy.
AFG has no real economy.
 
There are a lot of targets and many of those targets are covered with air defence. And you don't have that many missiles.
Bombs.

America already tried to do it in Iraq and Yemen with pretty insignificant effect. What makes you think, that this time you'll be successful and, what is more important, Iranians will fall in love with you and sign a peace treaty?
We did not attack the water facilities in Iraq or Yemen.
I am not advocating doing any of this. I continue to assume Trump will permanently TACO soon - declare victory and just bail regardless of whether the Straits are open.

I am merely saying it can be done.
 
Nuclear war is not like chess.
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It mostly depends on who you are. If you are an ordinary hungry civilian, hiding and scavenging in radioactive ruins of, say, Chicago, or an ordinary Militiamen, hunting marauders in those ruins, it's could be a roulette.
But for decision-makers, Generals and experts it's much more like a chess game.

Very well, Kyzr, you are making some progress. From 1% of population you came up to 20% of population. But twenty percent is also wrong number. And, of course, you must understand the difference between being in opposition (as far of I understand you was in opposition to the acting POTUS roughly half or time) and being a traitor or even a mutineer. Would you betray the USA just to get rid of Biden and/or Obama?

Then they are responsible for what happens to them. Nuclear war is not worth the risk.
If it's not worth the risk - you should alleviate.

There is nothing to gain by giving nukes to Iran, and everything to lose.
Kicking Americans from Middle East would give a lot of opportunities. And giving Iran to America might create vital threats to both Russia and China.

Trump will be in office until January 2029.
Even if he is dead? Are you going to keep his mummy there?

No election will change that. Democrats can piss and moan all they want.
Democrats, RINOs and those MAGA's who are not in the cult, can remove him by another way.
No matter what price oil goes to, we will still be able to pay for it, while Iran will be totally devastated, especially if Trump continues the bombing.
Not necessarily.
True. Trump started the war to end Iran's nuclear ambitions.
It was just a formal excuse (and even as this it was both arrogant and illegal) and we both know, that any country has right to develop peaceful nuclear energy, and there was no a sign of Iranian nuclear weapon program.

In the best for America case, Trump started this war to steal Iranian oil, and more realistically - to distract public attention from Epstain files.
 

There are a lot of targets and many of those targets are covered with air defence. And you don't have that many missiles.

America already tried to do it in Iraq and Yemen with pretty insignificant effect. What makes you think, that this time you'll be successful and, what is more important, Iranians will fall in love with you and sign a peace treaty?
Iranian air defenses are useless against F-35's and the US has hundreds of thousands of JDAMS available, so there is no target above ground in Iran that the US and Israel can't quickly demolish any target in Iran with minimal risk to the planes or crews.
 
Bombs usually have to be delivered by bombers. And bombers are vulnerable to air defences and fighters.
We did not attack the water facilities in Iraq or Yemen.
Of course you did.

I am not advocating doing any of this. I continue to assume Trump will permanently TACO soon - declare victory and just bail regardless of whether the Straits are open.

I am merely saying it can be done.
You can try to create them some problems in some places. But Iran is mostly mountains, not a flat desert, so don't expect a lot of practical results from this potential act.

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Iranian air defenses are useless against F-35's and the US has hundreds of thousands of JDAMS available, so there is no target above ground in Iran that the US and Israel can't quickly demolish any target in Iran with minimal risk to the planes or crews.
If it were useless, the USA wouldn't end this operation, begging for negotiations.
 
You guys DO realize that the blob will never put sizable numbers of boots on the ground in Iran right? The “next” move (if it ever does come) will be like the first move, after which we’ll demand unconditional surrender....again; they’ll not surrender....again; and you guys will be right back where you are today; trying to argue that this is some sort of brilliant strategy.
 
Bombs usually have to be delivered by bombers. And bombers are vulnerable to air defences and fighters.

Of course you did.


You can try to create them some problems in some places. But Iran is mostly mountains, not a flat desert, so don't expect a lot of practical results from this potential act.
Israel has no bombers yet delivers many bombs. Missiles may be vulnerable to air defenses but not bombs.
 
Israel has no bombers yet delivers many bombs. Missiles may be vulnerable to air defenses but not bombs.
Fighter-bombers, are quite poor both in fighting for air superiority and in bombing. And they are still vulnerable both to air defences and fighters. I mean Tom Cruise was great in "Top Gun: Maverick", but even in the movie it took a lot of cruise missiles and figher-bombers to destroy one important underground target. In the real life it will be much more difficult, especially fighting against real Su-57s.
 
Bombs usually have to be delivered by bombers. And bombers are vulnerable to air defences and fighters.
Not now. They have been suppressed. These are large facilities vulnerable to stealth bomber attacks in high threat environments, much less low threat environments wherein we have Gen 5 fighters.

Of course you did.
Please cite proof of your statement. If we destroyed the water supplies of Yemen or Iraq millions would have died in two weeks.

You can try to create them some problems in some places. But Iran is mostly mountains, not a flat desert, so don't expect a lot of practical results from this potential act.
If we shut off the water, millions are now displaced. Tehran was almost their last year due to drought.
Again I am not recommending this, but if we had the will we could seriously harm them. Personally again, I am more on the side of funding guerilla movements.


 
Fighter-bombers, are quite poor both in fighting for air superiority and in bombing. And they are still vulnerable both to air defences and fighters. I mean Tom Cruise was great in "Top Gun: Maverick", but even in the movie it took a lot of cruise missiles and figher-bombers to destroy one important underground target. In the real life it will be much more difficult, especially fighting against real Su-57s.
So the F-35 has shown itself to be safe from Iran's air defenses and has not been shown to be vulnerable to any other plane. While you may ponder why Cruise didn't call in the B2 stealthy bombers to attack underground targets, the F-35's are more than adequate to take out Iran's electricity and fuel supply and many more.
 

The next offensive must focus on decimating the IRGC.​


I disagree Mike. Our FIRST offensive should have focused on decimating the IRGC. It is really pissing me off how Trump keeps playing right into the IRGC's hands. Now he announces we were just one hour away from him taking action but he again paused the attack (this time supposedly under the request of neighboring countries). Maybe they are trying to have last-minute talks with Iran, they are wasting their time. Over the last SIX weeks, Trump has threatened then stopped short, paused and pulled back so many times that I've frankly lost count.

Why the hell should the Iranians budge or concede a thing when they keep buying time and getting what they want with endless negotiations as they have for FORTY-SEVEN YEARS?

This issue is not going to end until we go in there and kick the crap out of these people in a personal way and literally batter them to a pulp; so far, all we have sunk are ships, blown up jet fighters, and destroyed tanks and large scale missile silos and launchers. We are demonstrating an unwillingness to really fight a war--- all we are good for is pressing buttons on a computer screen.

Now Trump gives them 2-3 days--- if Trump does not take action in 48 hours after the Iranians blow him off yet again, I give up.
 
So the F-35 has shown itself to be safe from Iran's air defenses and has not been shown to be vulnerable to any other plane. While you may ponder why Cruise didn't call in the B2 stealthy bombers to attack underground targets, the F-35's are more than adequate to take out Iran's electricity and fuel supply and many more.
Who??? That is a movie! You know. Fiction?
 
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I disagree Mike. Our FIRST offensive should have focused on decimating the IRGC. It is really pissing me off how Trump keeps playing right into the IRGC's hands. Now he announces we were just one hour away from him taking action but he again paused the attack (this time supposedly under the request of neighboring countries). Maybe they are trying to have last-minute talks with Iran, they are wasting their time. Over the last SIX weeks, Trump has threatened then stopped short, paused and pulled back so many times that I've frankly lost count.

Why the hell should the Iranians budge or concede a thing when they keep buying time and getting what they want with endless negotiations as they have for FORTY-SEVEN YEARS?

This issue is not going to end until we go in there and kick the crap out of these people in a personal way and literally batter them to a pulp; so far, all we have sunk are ships, blown up jet fighters, and destroyed tanks and large scale missile silos and launchers. We are demonstrating an unwillingness to really fight a war--- all we are good for is pressing buttons on a computer screen.

Now Trump gives them 2-3 days--- if Trump does not take action in 48 hours after the Iranians blow him off yet again, I give up.
Yeah that's hard to argue with. Maybe the strategy was we needed tangible results with Epic Fury and then focus intelligence on current IRGC targets. I have to think that's what the "delays" are about.
 
So the F-35 has shown itself to be safe from Iran's air defenses and has not been shown to be vulnerable to any other plane.
It's not true. At least one F-35A was damaged by Iranian air defence. And it was during carefully planned operation, avoiding possible losses. If you want to attack heavily defended targets (especially now, when Iran is better prepared) be ready to lost much more planes without achieving any meaningful result.


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Not now. They have been suppressed.
They have been not. That's the main reason why Trump ended one operation and started another, begging Iranians for negotiations. Some people believe that now Iranian air defence is better than before the war.

These are large facilities vulnerable to stealth bomber attacks in high threat environments, much less low threat environments wherein we have Gen 5 fighters.
You are not the only onw who have Gen 5 fighters. What is even more important, it's unlikely that you will use F-22 for this operation, which can more or less became a problem for Su-57. And F-35s are just soft meat for them.

Please cite proof of your statement. If we destroyed the water supplies of Yemen or Iraq millions would have died in two weeks.
It's common knowledge. You can start with any google search.


Of course, you didn't destroy all water supply. Just a part of it.

If we shut off the water, millions are now displaced. Tehran was almost their last year due to drought.
It's technically difficult, I'd even say impossible, to destroy water supply in a country that big and with that many mountains. They can evacuate Tehran, if necessary, and build a new capital. Why not?

Again I am not recommending this, but if we had the will we could seriously harm them. Personally again, I am more on the side of funding guerilla movements.
Ao, you prefer losing money first of all, on direct disruption of trade lanes, second - on military and security expences, third - on paying and supplying some ineffective degenarates, and fourth - even if they win, they say f#ck you, and became your enemies. And all this instead of respecting international law and Russian sphere of influence and making mutually profitable business? Are you sure you are a true MAGA?
 
It mostly depends on who you are. If you are an ordinary hungry civilian, hiding and scavenging in radioactive ruins of, say, Chicago, or an ordinary Militiamen, hunting marauders in those ruins, it's could be a roulette. But for decision-makers, Generals and experts it's much more like a chess game.
We won't launch first, but if we are hit with a nuke we launch. All it takes is the president and the "nuclear football".
Very well, Kyzr, you are making some progress. From 1% of population you came up to 20% of population. But twenty percent is also wrong number. And, of course, you must understand the difference between being in opposition (as far of I understand you was in opposition to the acting POTUS roughly half or time) and being a traitor or even a mutineer. Would you betray the USA just to get rid of Biden and/or Obama?
Only 125,000 have guns, that's the number of IRGC still standing. The 20% of the population that supports the mullahs will get theirs after the new regime gets in.
If it's not worth the risk - you should alleviate.
Kicking Americans from Middle East would give a lot of opportunities. And giving Iran to America might create vital threats to both Russia and China.
Giving nukes to Iran is not worth the risk to Russia or China.
Americans are only in the middle-east where we are invited. America never takes more ground than needed to bury our dead.
Even if he is dead? Are you going to keep his mummy there?
Democrats, RINOs and those MAGA's who are not in the cult, can remove him by another way.
Trump will be in office until January 2029, he isn't going to die. Even if he does, JD Vance would continue Trump's policies.
Impeachment is a joke, Republican senators know if they vote to remove they will be voted out like Senator Cassidy just was.
Not necessarily.
OK, you're rooting for Iran, I'm rooting for the USA, we'll see who comes thru the war in better condition.
It was just a formal excuse (and even as this it was both arrogant and illegal) and we both know, that any country has right to develop peaceful nuclear energy, and there was no a sign of Iranian nuclear weapon program.
In the best for America case, Trump started this war to steal Iranian oil, and more realistically - to distract public attention from Epstein files.
Was the JCPOA just a formal excuse?
The world does not want Iran to have nukes, Trump is just enforcing that policy by military means.
If Iran wants nuclear energy we will give them free nuclear fuel.
If Iran doesn't surrender soon there won't be much Iranian oil left.
 
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