The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

[Hollie]

Good question. Israel does not have any defined territory.

That's another of the silly slogans you have been dumping into threads for a decade.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
SUBTOPIC: Interpretation
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: I use to give you partial credit on the issue when you said this. Not any more. This is an incomplete statement that is used to intentional deceive the audience.

More Israeli bullshit.

Palestine's international borders were defined by 1922.

(COMMENT)
.
The "facts" → the Allied Powers had not yet agreed upon hard "borders" yet. In August 1922, the Allied Powers worded the set this way:

"entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said Powers the administration of the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by them;"​

"Palestine was an undefined legal entity." But it was not self-governing. The Government of Palestine was an entity under the administration of the United Kingdom. The final agreement was not reached until the completion of the Paulet-Newcombe Survey was finalized.

◈ French-British Convention: Certain Points Connected with the Mandates for the Syria and Lebanon, Palestine, and Mesopotamia, 1924 Legue of Nations Treaty Series pp355 Registry No 564​

◈ French-British Border Agreement of 1923, 1924 League of Nations Treaty Series pp365 Registry No #565​

No.564 was the Convention agreed upon by the Supreme Council of the Allied Powers at San Remo (April 1920). An additional factor was the decision of the British Government to grant and establish the Emirati east of the Jordan River and ending with the Mesopotamia Mandate. "On May 15, 1923, Britain formally recognized the Emirate of Transjordan as a state under the leadership of Emir Abdullah." (Jordan History)

(Ω)

The boundary for the territory, formerly under the Mandate, varied along the timeline between the 1920 San Remo Agreement until 1946 when the British Government released Transjordan from the Mandate and it transitioned from a protectorate to a self-governing nation. However, the remainder of the territory west of the Jordan River, was still a legal entity under the Administration of the British Government. There was no country or nation of Palestine and no government from by the Arab Palestinians.
.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
SUBTOPIC: Interpretation
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: I use to give you partial credit on the issue when you said this. Not any more. This is an incomplete statement that is used to intentional deceive the audience.


(COMMENT)
.
The "facts" → the Allied Powers had not yet agreed upon hard "borders" yet. In August 1922, the Allied Powers worded the set this way:

"entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said Powers the administration of the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by them;"​

"Palestine was an undefined legal entity." But it was not self-governing. The Government of Palestine was an entity under the administration of the United Kingdom. The final agreement was not reached until the completion of the Paulet-Newcombe Survey was finalized.

◈ French-British Convention: Certain Points Connected with the Mandates for the Syria and Lebanon, Palestine, and Mesopotamia, 1924 Legue of Nations Treaty Series pp355 Registry No 564​

◈ French-British Border Agreement of 1923, 1924 League of Nations Treaty Series pp365 Registry No #565​

No.564 was the Convention agreed upon by the Supreme Council of the Allied Powers at San Remo (April 1920). An additional factor was the decision of the British Government to grant and establish the Emirati east of the Jordan River and ending with the Mesopotamia Mandate. "On May 15, 1923, Britain formally recognized the Emirate of Transjordan as a state under the leadership of Emir Abdullah." (Jordan History)

(Ω)

The boundary for the territory, formerly under the Mandate, varied along the timeline between the 1920 San Remo Agreement until 1946 when the British Government released Transjordan from the Mandate and it transitioned from a protectorate to a self-governing nation. However, the remainder of the territory west of the Jordan River, was still a legal entity under the Administration of the British Government. There was no country or nation of Palestine and no government from by the Arab Palestinians.
.

Most Respectfully,
R

Now you are splitting hairs. There was a little tweaking of the borders with Syria and Lebanon. However, the borders were essentially complete with the border between Palestine and Transjordan in 1922.

the territory west of the Jordan River, was still a legal entity under the Administration of the British Government.

Indeed, Palestine has always been a non self governing territory (NSGT) under foreign rule. It needs to be decolonized.

 

[Hollie]

Now you are splitting hairs. There was a little tweaking of the borders with Syria and Lebanon. However, the borders were essentially complete with the border between Palestine and Transjordan in 1922.


Indeed, Palestine has always been a non self governing territory (NSGT) under foreign rule. It needs to be decolonized.

Indeed not. For much of Ottoman rule, there was no Pal'istan.

Indeed, your Disney'fied version of this fairyland that never existed is a concerning delusion.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
SUBTOPIC: Interpretation
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Now look at who is splitting hairs.

Indeed, Palestine has always been a non self governing territory (NSGT) under foreign rule. It needs to be decolonized.

(COMMENT)

The territory could have gradually gone self-governing. But the Arab Palestinians simply did not accept any invitation to take part in developing self-governing institutions.


Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
SUBTOPIC: Interpretation
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Now look at who is splitting hairs.


(COMMENT)

The territory could have gradually gone self-governing. But the Arab Palestinians simply did not accept any invitation to take part in developing self-governing institutions.


Most Respectfully,
R

Indeed, the Palestinians did not want sign on to the colonial project.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Indeed, the Palestinians did not want sign on to the colonial project.

That's awful!

So what?

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

[Sixties Fan]

‘First Friends’ Tells Story of Truman’s Jewish Best Pal on Eve of Israel’s Independence - Algemeiner.com

With the recent “First Friends: The Powerful, Unsung (And Unelected) People Who Shaped Our Presidents,” author Gary Ginsberg reminds readers of an easily forgotten truism: presidents are people too. Released in July, the book chronicles nine presidential pals, from the nation-building work of...

www.algemeiner.com

 

[Sixties Fan]

Yom Kippur in British Mandate Palestine and the Irgun

Ever since the November 1928 White Paper, the blowing of the shofar, the ram’s horn, among other customs, had been prohibited at the Western Wall — Much to the chagrin of the Irgun.

www.jpost.com

 

[rylah]

Signature by Rabbi Shalom Alshech with leaders of the Yemenite Torah Council,
already from Jerusalem, in a letter of appreciation to Arthur Rupin, Jerusalem Feb. 7, 1909.

 

[rylah]

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[Sixties Fan]

Even though the modern State of Israel is 73 years old, Jews represented Palestine in World's Fairs way before 1948. In fact, the first time was 125 years ago.

This Jewish New Year's postcard is from the Great Industrial Exposition of Berlin of 1896 - and the story behind it is remarkable.

Portrayed in the photograph are Heinrich Loewe, Moshe David Șuv and others at the entrance to a building bearing the sign "Exposition of Sons of Israel in the Holy Land" (In Hebrew and German), with palm trees and a mosque

A Colonial Exhibition was held as part of the Great Industrial Exposition of Berlin in 1896, with grand displays replicating towns and villages in Africa, New Guinea and other places (for which purpose the organizers brought natives from these places, dressed them in traditional costumes and presented them to the public, in sets portraying indigenous life). The town of Cairo was "built" in one of the exhibition compounds where a Palestinian booth was erected (under the name "Exhibition of Sons of Israel Colonies in the Holy Land"). The pavilion offered for sale products from Palestine: "Carmel" wines, olive wood artefacts, books and booklets printed in Palestine, and more.

The person in charge of organizing the Palestinian pavilion was Moshe David Șuv (one of the leaders of founders of the colonies Rosh Pina, Yessod Hama'ala and Mishmar HaYarden). In his book "Zichronot LeBeit David […]" he describes the exhibition: "Among the general exhibition displays, a miniature city was built in the form of Cairo… with shops, hotels and Arab cafes, with the Nile flowing…. Our exhibition, the Palestinian one, was arranged in Cairo, within one of the great mosques. When I sat in this exhibition I felt as if I was in an Arab town…Thousands visited the exhibition, Jews and non-Jews and almost all bought wine and other products"

(full article online)

Jews represented Palestine at the 1896 Berlin Expo

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.

elderofziyon.blogspot.com

 

[P F Tinmore]

Even though the modern State of Israel is 73 years old, Jews represented Palestine in World's Fairs way before 1948. In fact, the first time was 125 years ago.

This Jewish New Year's postcard is from the Great Industrial Exposition of Berlin of 1896 - and the story behind it is remarkable.








(full article online)

Jews represented Palestine at the 1896 Berlin Expo

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.

elderofziyon.blogspot.com

where a Palestinian booth was erected (under the name "Exhibition of Sons of Israel Colonies in the Holy Land"

Moshe David Șuv (one of the leaders of founders of the colonies Rosh Pina,

Indeed.

 

[rylah]

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[rylah]

Was there really?

Then you should be able to answer:

 

[Sixties Fan]

Wikipedia adds:

Arab rioters killed 19 Jews in Tiberias, 11 of whom were children. During the massacre, 70 armed Arabs set fire to Jewish homes and the local synagogue. In one house a mother and her five children were killed. The old beadle in the synagogue was stabbed to death, and another family of 4 was killed.

A representative of the British mandate reported that: "It was systematically organized and savagely executed. Of the nineteen Jews killed, including women and children, all save four were stabbed to death."

The targets weren't the Haganah or even "Zionists" - Tiberias was settled by Jews multiple times before modern Zionism. The targets were Jews - Jewish families, Jewish women, Jewish children, and a synagogue.

The massacre seems to have been the handiwork of Abu Ibrahim al-Kabir, a disciple of Izz ad-Din al-Qassam.

Al-Kabir is still considered a hero to Palestinians - here is a Fatah page dedicated to him that compliments him on a 1932 bombing in Nahalal that killed a Jewish father and son. Here's a video praising him that includes a song in his honor.

Palestinian nationalism and antisemitism are two sides of the same coin.

(full article online)

83 years ago: A massacre at Tiberias, Arabs murder 19 Jews - 11 of whom were children

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.

elderofziyon.blogspot.com

 

[Sixties Fan]

Even now, scholars haven't determined the reason for the rampage. The Muslim version was that a Jew was drunk and insulted Islam. The Jewish community disputed that. What is undeniable is that the Arabs hated the Jews and any excuse was enough for them to massacre their innocent Jewish neighbors.

What is also undeniable is that this attack had nothing to do with Zionism.

The JTA quotes here were incomplete and whitewashed the real horror: "A scene of utter desolation and horror, of Jewish girls with their breasts cut off, of little children with numerous knife wounds and of whole families locked in their homes and burned to death."

Arabs and Muslims love to claim that Jews lived in peace and harmony with them until Zionism. That is garbage. The Jews always knew that they were second class citizens and that one wrong move could spark a pogrom like this one.

Notice also that even in 1934, the media would "both sides" a massacre of Arabs to Jews, claiming it was fighting between two sides and not a one sided massacre.

This was not the only Muslim pogrom of Jews in 1934. Only two months earlier, in the Thrace region of Turkey, Jews were attacked mercilessly and some 15,000 were forced to flee the area.


(full article online)

Arabs didn't blame their Algerian pogrom of 1934 on Zionism

Blogging about Israel and the Arab world since, oh, forever.

elderofziyon.blogspot.com