The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

[Sixties Fan]

[Little known history of Jews in Gaza before 1920]

Here are a few key points on the history of the Jews in Gaza: It was conquered by Jonathan Hasmonean in 145 BCE; it is mentioned in the Jerusalem Talmud in the fourth century CE; Nathan of Gaza, who smashed the Torah of the false Messiah Shabbtai Zvi, who converted to Islam. Nathan of Gaza is the one who, on the eve of Shavuot 1660, declared Zvi "the savior of Israel." He did so in the synagogue of Gaza. The famous Cairo Geniza also fills in some details about the Jewish community in Gaza through the generations. There is also the rabbi and poet Yisrael Najara, possibly the most famous of the Gazan Jews.

Najara was the chief rabbi of Gaza for five years until he died in 1625. He was the son of the Safed rabbi Moshe Najara, who was one of the students of Rabbi Yitzhak Ben Shlomo Luria. Yisrael Najara wrote 650 poems, both secular and religious, some of which have never been seen in print.

Q: The biblical Samson, one of the most famous Bible characters, lived in Gaza. Did the Jews who lived there or visited the place for generations mention him, or sites linked to his name?

"One of the most famous travelers to visit the Land of Israel, who recorded his visit here in 1481, is Rabbi Meshulam of Volterra. Rabbi Meshulam tells that the Jews of Gaza made wine, describes a small synagogue that was active in the city, and mentions the location of Delilah's house, where Samson lived. A French Crusader who visited the Land of Israel in 1395 mentions Samson and, just as interestingly, describes the dress of the Gaza residents in that period: the Muslims wore white turbans, the Christians wore light blue head coverings, and the Jews wore yellow ones!"

(full article online)

https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/03/19/gaza-like-you-never-knew-it/

 

[Spartacactcus]

This thread is, in part , about the British Mandate but the British Mandate was ended at midnight 14th May 1948 with the only provisions being that the League of Nations ( which was superceded by the UN ) that only articles 13 and 14 would outlast all others in the Mandate itself. They were involved with protections /rights of people to visit religious sites in the Mandate area and general law and order.

Subsequently any people from the alleged " pro Israel " side that state that the Mandate validates Israeli claims to the territories it occupies and illegally settles is being eithe ignorant of the terms of the termination of the Mandate or extremely frugal with the truth about it.

In short all claims regarding the Mandate that are later 14th May 1948, accept for in the articles stated , are evidently illegitimate

The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate

avalon.law.yale.edu

Don't be silly. Of course the claims are not illegitimate.

The Mandate existed for as long as the conditions which required the Mandate existed. Once those conditions resolved, the Mandate was no longer necessary. The Mandate had fulfilled its purpose.

The conditions were the development of self-governing institutions.

The purpose was the re-constitution of the Jewish Homeland (State) for the self-determination and self-government (sovereignty) of the Jewish people.

The Mandate was also charged with not abusing the rights , civil/religious , of the none Jewish population of Palestine, not that you would care , but relevant nonetheless.

If you read my post properly you would see that it referred to the Mandate being used as legitimation of events/policies AFTER its dissolvement as per the OPTs.

The mandatory power, as it was charged,
provided civil and religious rights to the non-Jewish population.

Q. Do you see any mention of 'national rights',
in reference to sovereignty other than that of the Jewish Nation?

There is NO mention of "national rights" for either side iirc except for the creation of a " Jewish homeland " which could be deemed an autonomous or semi-autonomous region but not necessarily a state as such

Of course there's,
specifically mentions re-constitution of the Jewish nation.

Q. Does it mention any sovereignty of an Arab nation?

Nope, but that only extends to when the Mandate became null and void. Since then the organisation entrusted with taking over from the Mandate , the UN , has stated a wish for the Palestinians to have their own state on the territories occupied by Israel since 1967.

You are an antisemite, so filter everything through your Jew hatred.

Those of us who are not afflicted with such realize that the Palestinian mandate extended all the way to the eastern border of what is now Jordan and that the Arabs already received the lion's share of the land.

Projection and standard trolling from people who cannot argue their cases imo

Jordan is 75% desert so you should factor into the equation what land is actually consisting of as opposed to just percentages. Not that you do, as far as you are concerned the Arabs got a desert and thus should be happy with that . What were you saying about viewing things through the prism of racism ?

 

[Sixties Fan]

This thread is, in part , about the British Mandate but the British Mandate was ended at midnight 14th May 1948 with the only provisions being that the League of Nations ( which was superceded by the UN ) that only articles 13 and 14 would outlast all others in the Mandate itself. They were involved with protections /rights of people to visit religious sites in the Mandate area and general law and order.

Subsequently any people from the alleged " pro Israel " side that state that the Mandate validates Israeli claims to the territories it occupies and illegally settles is being eithe ignorant of the terms of the termination of the Mandate or extremely frugal with the truth about it.

In short all claims regarding the Mandate that are later 14th May 1948, accept for in the articles stated , are evidently illegitimate

The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate

avalon.law.yale.edu

Don't be silly. Of course the claims are not illegitimate.

The Mandate existed for as long as the conditions which required the Mandate existed. Once those conditions resolved, the Mandate was no longer necessary. The Mandate had fulfilled its purpose.

The conditions were the development of self-governing institutions.

The purpose was the re-constitution of the Jewish Homeland (State) for the self-determination and self-government (sovereignty) of the Jewish people.

The Mandate was also charged with not abusing the rights , civil/religious , of the none Jewish population of Palestine, not that you would care , but relevant nonetheless.

If you read my post properly you would see that it referred to the Mandate being used as legitimation of events/policies AFTER its dissolvement as per the OPTs.

The mandatory power, as it was charged,
provided civil and religious rights to the non-Jewish population.

Q. Do you see any mention of 'national rights',
in reference to sovereignty other than that of the Jewish Nation?

There is NO mention of "national rights" for either side iirc except for the creation of a " Jewish homeland " which could be deemed an autonomous or semi-autonomous region but not necessarily a state as such

Of course there's,
specifically mentions re-constitution of the Jewish nation.

Q. Does it mention any sovereignty of an Arab nation?

Nope, but that only extends to when the Mandate became null and void. Since then the organisation entrusted with taking over from the Mandate , the UN , has stated a wish for the Palestinians to have their own state on the territories occupied by Israel since 1967.

You are an antisemite, so filter everything through your Jew hatred.

Those of us who are not afflicted with such realize that the Palestinian mandate extended all the way to the eastern border of what is now Jordan and that the Arabs already received the lion's share of the land.

Projection and standard trolling from people who cannot argue their cases imo

Jordan is 75% desert so you should factor into the equation what land is actually consisting of as opposed to just percentages. Not that you do, as far as you are concerned the Arabs got a desert and thus should be happy with that . What were you saying about viewing things through the prism of racism ?

We are saying, with all the letters, that you are ignorant of history and the facts about the Mandate for Palestine. Call us trolls and any other name you like. The Jews will continue to survive the lies and misinformation you and many others insist in spewing against them.

Jordan is 75% desert? Then why did the Hashemite clan accept it and threw all the Jews out of it, where they had lived for over 3000 years? Why not give it to the Jews?
What.....oh.....Oil............
Even if there was no oil, it is still a large piece of land to make up for the amount of land the Saudi clan kicked the Hashemites from during WWI.
And the Hashemites had NO rights to be given any part of the Mandate for Palestine by the British or anyone else.

Don't worry, the Hashemites know the history of how they got the land in 1922, threw the Jews out in 1925 of Transjordan and then threw the Jews out of Judea and Samaria in 1948, because 78% of the Jewish homeland is never enough to Muslims who were taught to hate Jews since Mohammad invented Islam.
And all of that without one PIP from any of the Muslims living in the Mandate for Palestine.

Now, why would the other Arab tribes, Muslims, accept that the Hashemites should have 78% of the land, and give none to them?




Am Israel chai
The People of Israel Live

 

[rylah]

This thread is, in part , about the British Mandate but the British Mandate was ended at midnight 14th May 1948 with the only provisions being that the League of Nations ( which was superceded by the UN ) that only articles 13 and 14 would outlast all others in the Mandate itself. They were involved with protections /rights of people to visit religious sites in the Mandate area and general law and order.

Subsequently any people from the alleged " pro Israel " side that state that the Mandate validates Israeli claims to the territories it occupies and illegally settles is being eithe ignorant of the terms of the termination of the Mandate or extremely frugal with the truth about it.

In short all claims regarding the Mandate that are later 14th May 1948, accept for in the articles stated , are evidently illegitimate

The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate

avalon.law.yale.edu

Don't be silly. Of course the claims are not illegitimate.

The Mandate existed for as long as the conditions which required the Mandate existed. Once those conditions resolved, the Mandate was no longer necessary. The Mandate had fulfilled its purpose.

The conditions were the development of self-governing institutions.

The purpose was the re-constitution of the Jewish Homeland (State) for the self-determination and self-government (sovereignty) of the Jewish people.

The Mandate was also charged with not abusing the rights , civil/religious , of the none Jewish population of Palestine, not that you would care , but relevant nonetheless.

If you read my post properly you would see that it referred to the Mandate being used as legitimation of events/policies AFTER its dissolvement as per the OPTs.

The mandatory power, as it was charged,
provided civil and religious rights to the non-Jewish population.

Q. Do you see any mention of 'national rights',
in reference to sovereignty other than that of the Jewish Nation?

There is NO mention of "national rights" for either side iirc except for the creation of a " Jewish homeland " which could be deemed an autonomous or semi-autonomous region but not necessarily a state as such

Of course there's,
specifically mentions re-constitution of the Jewish nation.

Q. Does it mention any sovereignty of an Arab nation?

Nope, but that only extends to when the Mandate became null and void. Since then the organisation entrusted with taking over from the Mandate , the UN , has stated a wish for the Palestinians to have their own state on the territories occupied by Israel since 1967.

You are an antisemite, so filter everything through your Jew hatred.

Those of us who are not afflicted with such realize that the Palestinian mandate extended all the way to the eastern border of what is now Jordan and that the Arabs already received the lion's share of the land.

Projection and standard trolling from people who cannot argue their cases imo

Jordan is 75% desert so you should factor into the equation what land is actually consisting of as opposed to just percentages. Not that you do, as far as you are concerned the Arabs got a desert and thus should be happy with that . What were you saying about viewing things through the prism of racism ?

Let me help you out -

• Jordan territory is 34.5 sq mi with 75% desert
• Israel territory is 8.5 sq mi with 55% desert

That means that Jordan with population exceeding that of Israel only by 1 million,
has more than TWICE non-desert territory than that of Israel.

Let's face it, the Arab world is by far and large a failed society,
while Israel has turned that desert into Paradise on earth.
How do we know...well... Jordan.

Q. Do you feel extra smart yet?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

This thread is, in part , about the British Mandate but the British Mandate was ended at midnight 14th May 1948 with the only provisions being that the League of Nations ( which was superceded by the UN ) that only articles 13 and 14 would outlast all others in the Mandate itself. They were involved with protections /rights of people to visit religious sites in the Mandate area and general law and order.

Subsequently any people from the alleged " pro Israel " side that state that the Mandate validates Israeli claims to the territories it occupies and illegally settles is being eithe ignorant of the terms of the termination of the Mandate or extremely frugal with the truth about it.

In short all claims regarding the Mandate that are later 14th May 1948, accept for in the articles stated , are evidently illegitimate

The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate

avalon.law.yale.edu

Don't be silly. Of course the claims are not illegitimate.

The Mandate existed for as long as the conditions which required the Mandate existed. Once those conditions resolved, the Mandate was no longer necessary. The Mandate had fulfilled its purpose.

The conditions were the development of self-governing institutions.

The purpose was the re-constitution of the Jewish Homeland (State) for the self-determination and self-government (sovereignty) of the Jewish people.

The Mandate was also charged with not abusing the rights , civil/religious , of the none Jewish population of Palestine, not that you would care , but relevant nonetheless.

If you read my post properly you would see that it referred to the Mandate being used as legitimation of events/policies AFTER its dissolvement as per the OPTs.

The mandatory power, as it was charged,
provided civil and religious rights to the non-Jewish population.

Q. Do you see any mention of 'national rights',
in reference to sovereignty other than that of the Jewish Nation?

There is NO mention of "national rights" for either side iirc except for the creation of a " Jewish homeland " which could be deemed an autonomous or semi-autonomous region but not necessarily a state as such

Of course there's,
specifically mentions re-constitution of the Jewish nation.

Q. Does it mention any sovereignty of an Arab nation?

Nope, but that only extends to when the Mandate became null and void. Since then the organisation entrusted with taking over from the Mandate , the UN , has stated a wish for the Palestinians to have their own state on the territories occupied by Israel since 1967.

You are an antisemite, so filter everything through your Jew hatred.

Those of us who are not afflicted with such realize that the Palestinian mandate extended all the way to the eastern border of what is now Jordan and that the Arabs already received the lion's share of the land.

Projection and standard trolling from people who cannot argue their cases imo

Jordan is 75% desert so you should factor into the equation what land is actually consisting of as opposed to just percentages. Not that you do, as far as you are concerned the Arabs got a desert and thus should be happy with that . What were you saying about viewing things through the prism of racism ?

The fact that you are an ignorant antisemite does not make me a troll.

It just makes you an ignorant antisemite.

 

[Spartacactcus]

We are saying, with all the letters, that you are ignorant of history and the facts about the Mandate for Palestine. Call us trolls and any other name you like. The Jews will continue to survive the lies and misinformation you and many others insist in spewing against them.

Jordan is 75% desert? Then why did the Hashemite clan accept it and threw all the Jews out of it, where they had lived for over 3000 years? Why not give it to the Jews?
What.....oh.....Oil............
Even if there was no oil, it is still a large piece of land to make up for the amount of land the Saudi clan kicked the Hashemites from during WWI.
And the Hashemites had NO rights to be given any part of the Mandate for Palestine by the British or anyone else.

Don't worry, the Hashemites know the history of how they got the land in 1922, threw the Jews out in 1925 of Transjordan and then threw the Jews out of Judea and Samaria in 1948, because 78% of the Jewish homeland is never enough to Muslims who were taught to hate Jews since Mohammad invented Islam.
And all of that without one PIP from any of the Muslims living in the Mandate for Palestine.

Now, why would the other Arab tribes, Muslims, accept that the Hashemites should have 78% of the land, and give none to them?

Am Israel chai
The People of Israel Live

What ignorance have I shown about the history and/or the Mandate ?

I responded to a troll referring to me as an antisemite , is that unreasonable ?

What " lies and misinformation " have I " spewed out " ?

Oil wasn't discovered in Jordan in the 1920's and it is hardly a oil rich nation even today.

What right did the British have to give land or not to anyone post the fall of the Ottomans ? That might is right ? No justice comes from that imo

So before you start commenting on me and my opinions you need to answer the above

 

[Spartacactcus]

The fact that you are an ignorant antisemite does not make me a troll.

It just makes you an ignorant antisemite.

I am neither ignorant nor an antisemite so that does make you a troll. Your GIF sig shows you are a troll. So, go and troll someone else , troll boy.

 

[Sixties Fan]

We are saying, with all the letters, that you are ignorant of history and the facts about the Mandate for Palestine. Call us trolls and any other name you like. The Jews will continue to survive the lies and misinformation you and many others insist in spewing against them.

Jordan is 75% desert? Then why did the Hashemite clan accept it and threw all the Jews out of it, where they had lived for over 3000 years? Why not give it to the Jews?
What.....oh.....Oil............
Even if there was no oil, it is still a large piece of land to make up for the amount of land the Saudi clan kicked the Hashemites from during WWI.
And the Hashemites had NO rights to be given any part of the Mandate for Palestine by the British or anyone else.

Don't worry, the Hashemites know the history of how they got the land in 1922, threw the Jews out in 1925 of Transjordan and then threw the Jews out of Judea and Samaria in 1948, because 78% of the Jewish homeland is never enough to Muslims who were taught to hate Jews since Mohammad invented Islam.
And all of that without one PIP from any of the Muslims living in the Mandate for Palestine.

Now, why would the other Arab tribes, Muslims, accept that the Hashemites should have 78% of the land, and give none to them?

Am Israel chai
The People of Israel Live

What ignorance have I shown about the history and/or the Mandate ?

I responded to a troll referring to me as an antisemite , is that unreasonable ?

What " lies and misinformation " have I " spewed out " ?

Oil wasn't discovered in Jordan in the 1920's and it is hardly a oil rich nation even today.

What right did the British have to give land or not to anyone post the fall of the Ottomans ? That might is right ? No justice comes from that imo

So before you start commenting on me and my opinions you need to answer the above

I am going by your first post:

Yesterday at 8:06 AM

• Add bookmark
• #402

This thread is, in part , about the British Mandate but the British Mandate was ended at midnight 14th May 1948 with the only provisions being that the League of Nations ( which was superceded by the UN ) that only articles 13 and 14 would outlast all others in the Mandate itself. They were involved with protections /rights of people to visit religious sites in the Mandate area and general law and order.

Subsequently any people from the alleged " pro Israel " side that state that the Mandate validates Israeli claims to the territories it occupies and illegally settles is being eithe ignorant of the terms of the termination of the Mandate or extremely frugal with the truth about it.

In short all claims regarding the Mandate that are later 14th May 1948, accept for in the articles stated , are evidently illegitimate

The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate

---------------------------------------

You were answered about what you posted. Your words and tone have shown that you do not care about the facts. Not in regards to Israel and the Jewish People. No problem. Why? Because your opinion does not change one Iota the facts of the Mandate, nor the facts on the ground.


<<<Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.

Daniel Patrick Moynihan>>>

 

[Shusha]

What ignorance have I shown about the history and/or the Mandate ?

Well, we can start with what you posted below:

What right did the British have to give land or not to anyone post the fall of the Ottomans ?

The British did not "give" land to anyone. The British (and the French) were the trustees of territories whose sovereign had abandoned them in favour of the development of self-determination and self-government of various peoples. One of those peoples was the Jewish people.

 

[Shusha]

No justice comes from that imo

Interesting concept, justice. What would justice look like for the Jewish people?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

The fact that you are an ignorant antisemite does not make me a troll.

It just makes you an ignorant antisemite.

I am neither ignorant nor an antisemite so that does make you a troll. Your GIF sig shows you are a troll. So, go and troll someone else , troll boy.

How old are you, son? You can't be much out of your late teens.

I have never had any other children make such accusations aboit a clip from the Big Lebowski.

 

[Sixties Fan]

The fact that you are an ignorant antisemite does not make me a troll.

It just makes you an ignorant antisemite.

I am neither ignorant nor an antisemite so that does make you a troll. Your GIF sig shows you are a troll. So, go and troll someone else , troll boy.

How old are you, son? You can't be much out of your late teens.

I have never had any other children make such accusations aboit a clip from the Big Lebowski.

Could we please keep answers like this out of the thread? Thanks.

 

[P F Tinmore]

What ignorance have I shown about the history and/or the Mandate ?

Well, we can start with what you posted below:

What right did the British have to give land or not to anyone post the fall of the Ottomans ?

The British did not "give" land to anyone. The British (and the French) were the trustees of territories whose sovereign had abandoned them in favour of the development of self-determination and self-government of various peoples. One of those peoples was the Jewish people.

Link?

 

[Shusha]

What ignorance have I shown about the history and/or the Mandate ?

Well, we can start with what you posted below:

What right did the British have to give land or not to anyone post the fall of the Ottomans ?

The British did not "give" land to anyone. The British (and the French) were the trustees of territories whose sovereign had abandoned them in favour of the development of self-determination and self-government of various peoples. One of those peoples was the Jewish people.

Link?

Seriously? What do you want a link to? What are you specifically disputing in the above statement?

Are you disputing that the British were trustees?

Are you disputing that the previous sovereign abandoned the territory?

Are you disputing the concept of self-determination and self-government?

Are you disputing the right of the Jewish people (like all peoples) to self-determination and self-government?

Be specific.

 

[P F Tinmore]

What ignorance have I shown about the history and/or the Mandate ?

Well, we can start with what you posted below:

What right did the British have to give land or not to anyone post the fall of the Ottomans ?

The British did not "give" land to anyone. The British (and the French) were the trustees of territories whose sovereign had abandoned them in favour of the development of self-determination and self-government of various peoples. One of those peoples was the Jewish people.

Link?

Seriously? What do you want a link to? What are you specifically disputing in the above statement?

Are you disputing that the British were trustees?

Are you disputing that the previous sovereign abandoned the territory?

Are you disputing the concept of self-determination and self-government?

Are you disputing the right of the Jewish people (like all peoples) to self-determination and self-government?

Be specific.

You claim that foreign settlers have the right to self determination in Palestine. I asked for a link to prove your point.

 

[Hollie]

What ignorance have I shown about the history and/or the Mandate ?

Well, we can start with what you posted below:

What right did the British have to give land or not to anyone post the fall of the Ottomans ?

The British did not "give" land to anyone. The British (and the French) were the trustees of territories whose sovereign had abandoned them in favour of the development of self-determination and self-government of various peoples. One of those peoples was the Jewish people.

Link?

Seriously? What do you want a link to? What are you specifically disputing in the above statement?

Are you disputing that the British were trustees?

Are you disputing that the previous sovereign abandoned the territory?

Are you disputing the concept of self-determination and self-government?

Are you disputing the right of the Jewish people (like all peoples) to self-determination and self-government?

Be specific.

You claim that foreign settlers have the right to self determination in Palestine. I asked for a link to prove your point.

It’s difficult to believe you have learned nothing after years of spamming threads with that same, nonsensical claim.

 

[rylah]

What ignorance have I shown about the history and/or the Mandate ?

Well, we can start with what you posted below:

What right did the British have to give land or not to anyone post the fall of the Ottomans ?

The British did not "give" land to anyone. The British (and the French) were the trustees of territories whose sovereign had abandoned them in favour of the development of self-determination and self-government of various peoples. One of those peoples was the Jewish people.

Link?

Seriously? What do you want a link to? What are you specifically disputing in the above statement?

Are you disputing that the British were trustees?

Are you disputing that the previous sovereign abandoned the territory?

Are you disputing the concept of self-determination and self-government?

Are you disputing the right of the Jewish people (like all peoples) to self-determination and self-government?

Be specific.

You claim that foreign settlers have the right to self determination in Palestine. I asked for a link to prove your point.

Well that's funny,
aren't you the one banging about self-determination for an bunch of Arabian tribes,
that cannot even properly pronounce the name of the place?

How do you square that hypocrisy?

 

[Shusha]

What ignorance have I shown about the history and/or the Mandate ?

Well, we can start with what you posted below:

What right did the British have to give land or not to anyone post the fall of the Ottomans ?

The British did not "give" land to anyone. The British (and the French) were the trustees of territories whose sovereign had abandoned them in favour of the development of self-determination and self-government of various peoples. One of those peoples was the Jewish people.

Link?

Seriously? What do you want a link to? What are you specifically disputing in the above statement?

Are you disputing that the British were trustees?

Are you disputing that the previous sovereign abandoned the territory?

Are you disputing the concept of self-determination and self-government?

Are you disputing the right of the Jewish people (like all peoples) to self-determination and self-government?

Be specific.

You claim that foreign settlers have the right to self determination in Palestine. I asked for a link to prove your point.

No. I did not claim that foreign settlers have a right to self-determination in the territory in question.

What I said is that the Jewish people, like all people, have the right to self-determination and self-government in the territory of their homeland.

 

[Spartacactcus]

---------------------------------------

You were answered about what you posted. Your words and tone have shown that you do not care about the facts. Not in regards to Israel and the Jewish People. No problem. Why? Because your opinion does not change one Iota the facts of the Mandate, nor the facts on the ground.


<<<Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.

Daniel Patrick Moynihan>>>

I asked you what I was " ignorant " of and what I had " misrepresented " in my post and you have swerved giving me answers so I suggest you have nothing to say in reality and just want to cry foul because I hold a different view from you .

You are the one giving yourself away imo

 

[Spartacactcus]

How old are you, son? You can't be much out of your late teens.

I have never had any other children make such accusations aboit a clip from the Big Lebowski.

I told you to troll elsewhere so you resort to patronizing me now ?

Look at your own behaviour ( calling names and acting big ) and ask yourself who is the " child " here.

If you have a point about anything I might say then feel free to jump in , jump in with ridiculous and ignorant accusations and expect to be treated appropriately