The methods of conversion

[DKSuddeth]

There are many ways to persuade individuals to see one side or the other in a debate or that the issues between conservatives and liberals have definitive sides and allow a person to choose the one he/she most believes in. The worst way to do this, of course, is to force a decision based on the actions and reactions of your 'side'.

My wife, when I first met her, was so conservative that it made me look like Ted Kennedy. Through very tumultuous times and discussions we were able to come to compromises on almost everything we believed in politically even though we didn't much care for the compromise. Still, in all, it worked out for the most part.

When I first came to this board in Oct of last year, the groans from my wife were very audible, 'not another message board, geeeez'. It took me a long time to get her to garner any interest in even reading some of the posts. Once I actually got her interested enough to partake in it, with no small help from jimnyc , she really took off in trying to find out enough information for herself.

Today, you've helped her decide to be a liberal. Was it that she didn't agree with your points of view? no. Was it because she felt that the liberal side offered her a more american way of life and freedom of opportunity? no. It wasn't that either. It was the constant onslaught of liberal bashing that finally made her decide that she didn't want to be anything like most of the 'conservatives' on the board. Thats certainly not what I had in mind for her in order to allow her to choose what she wants. She simply chose what she didn't want to be.

While it is sometimes fun to throw a little mud at the other side, provided its done in fun, and even though things do get heated sometimes because someone pisses us off with a stupid ass comment, it shouldn't have to come down to choosing NOT to be like that side or this side.

I've tried very hard to be the smart liberal on the board. One that is reminiscent of the democrats of the reagan era. Believe me, its not easy considering some of the other 'liberals' on the board that allow the grouping of liberals to be easily accomplished. With the exception of the yahoo boards, I've never seen a group more happily inclined to just throw out slander towards the liberal side, simply because they want to. It makes it very easy to want to not be involved politically because of the trash that gets thrown from both sides of the fence, so I'm flaming most of the liberals at this point as well. The extremism and partisanship is whats going to divide this country in half and COULD eventually lead to all out civil war. Some of you may think thats ridiculous but look around you, see whats going on. The hatred that exists right now between liberals and conservatives has never been more pronounced. Who cares who's to blame at this point, fixing it is more important, and its not going to be fixed by demanding everyone choose one side or the other, lest you forget all the independent thinkers out there that don't play the game but still believe in things.

Just food for thought guys, you've probably blown your best chance ever at honestly turning someone, who admittedly didn't know a whole lot about politics, into a true conservative but failed to do so because you couldn't get over your dislike for liberalism.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Nice thought dk. In my opinion, liberalism is just a thin sheath of denial placed over communist and anti american thought. As such libs must be defeated entirely in the political arena. Their ideas are bad for america. And they placed themselves to benefit politically when things go bad for america. Your little essay of judgement phases me not one iota. just thought you'd like to know.

They can have their thoughts. And I have a right to have my opinion of their thoughts. Their policies are mostly destructive, despite the nobility of the stated intention.

 

[DKSuddeth]

As much as you're entitled to your opinion you missed the entire point of my post. I laid out the problem and hinted at a solution. You refuse to be part of the solution, hence you will always be part of the problem. Sad actually, I've seen and heard such great comments about your intellectual ability from someone very dear to me and its a shame to watch you destroy that from time to time with your posts.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
As much as you're entitled to your opinion you missed the entire point of my post. I laid out the problem and hinted at a solution. You refuse to be part of the solution, hence you will always be part of the problem. Sad actually, I've seen and heard such great comments about your intellectual ability from someone very dear to me and its a shame to watch you destroy that from time to time with your posts.

Nice black and white view. We don't agree on the solution. Getting along is not the goal. Doing the right thing for civilization is the goal.

Oh yes. I'm deeply influenced by the opinions of others. Hello dk, it's me!

I'd expect nothing less than personal insult from an angry lib.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Nice black and white view. We don't agree on the solution. Getting along is not the goal. Doing the right thing for civilization is the goal.

Oh yes. I'm deeply influenced by the opinions of others. Hello dk, it's me!

I'd expect nothing less than personal insult from an angry lib.

when people have different views about whats right and wrong, there is no black and white view. The 'I'm right, you're wrong' scenario is played out.

If you saw personal insult from me then I'm not the one with the problem.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
when people have different views about whats right and wrong, there is no black and white view. The 'I'm right, you're wrong' scenario is played out.

If you saw personal insult from me then I'm not the one with the problem.

If were not part of the solution werre part of the problem.

We don't agree on the solution dk. Having a big love in is not my goal. This is a political site, man. We have political disagreements and those get heated.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
when people have different views about whats right and wrong, there is no black and white view. The 'I'm right, you're wrong' scenario is played out.

If you saw personal insult from me then I'm not the one with the problem.

The superiority of a free and free market society is clearly measurable though. THere is no debating that capitalism results in a greater standard of living FOR EVERYONE.

 

[DKSuddeth]

then maybe you missed this part of the board.

Originally posted by KLSuddeth
Im so Goddamned sick of this shit.

Im done.

Im not even going to bother to come into these areas anymore. Im not learning shit and its because no one does anything except for flame one another. Fine. Its cute for a few days but damnit - enough is enough.

Im staying on the lower half of the board from now on - at least I can have some giggles in there.

If anyone is going to bother responding to this, save it - dont. I wont be reading it anyway.

Its been real - Its been fun. you know the rest

tie that in with my post here. see what you have. If its too much for you to comprehend then maybe you're fooling more people than you realize.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
then maybe you missed this part of the board.



tie that in with my post here. see what you have. If its too much for you to comprehend then maybe you're fooling more people than you realize.

Oh. what, you didn't think I felt appropriate levels of pain from having a friend abandon me and decided to bump the thread? That's pretty sick, dude.

You're "won", dk. Do you feel good now?

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Oh. what, you didn't think I felt appropriate levels of pain from having a friend abandon me and decided to bump the thread? That's pretty sick, dude.

You're "won", dk. Do you feel good now?

This is your problem, you'rs and alot of others. Your 'friend', who only wanted to learn from others, saw the bitter attitudes and decided not to be part of it and all you can think about is how YOU were abandoned. Nothing at all about how your 'friend' feels at all. THATS pretty sick.

Is this all about you? Does the world truly revolve around RWA?

Face these facts. YOU are partially responsible for the strife in this country. YOU are partially responsible for the anger and hatred against you. YOU are partially to blame for all the bitterness that YOUR inability to work with others causes, simply because you REFUSE to acknowledge that you don't know everything and that you're not right about everything.

Thanks for contributing.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
Today, you've helped her decide to be a liberal. Was it that she didn't agree with your points of view? no. Was it because she felt that the liberal side offered her a more american way of life and freedom of opportunity? no. It wasn't that either. It was the constant onslaught of liberal bashing that finally made her decide that she didn't want to be anything like most of the 'conservatives' on the board. Thats certainly not what I had in mind for her in order to allow her to choose what she wants. She simply chose what she didn't want to be.

I think what issues you stand for an against make you a liberal or conservative. You can't label yourself simply because you are upset with others of the same affiliation. Just my 2 cents.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
This is your problem, you'rs and alot of others. Your 'friend', who only wanted to learn from others, saw the bitter attitudes and decided not to be part of it and all you can think about is how YOU were abandoned. Nothing at all about how your 'friend' feels at all. THATS pretty sick.

Is this all about you? Does the world truly revolve around RWA?

Face these facts. YOU are partially responsible for the strife in this country. YOU are partially responsible for the anger and hatred against you. YOU are partially to blame for all the bitterness that YOUR inability to work with others causes, simply because you REFUSE to acknowledge that you don't know everything and that you're not right about everything.

Thanks for contributing.

You're so jealous you can't see straight.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by jimnyc
I think what issues you stand for an against make you a liberal or conservative. You can't label yourself simply because you are upset with others of the same affiliation. Just my 2 cents.

sure you can jim, we see it on a weekly basis here.

how many people do you see post about the lies, slander, bias, and hate of the liberals?

Some of these people choose to be conservatives or republicans because of it. The reverse also holds true.

Someone might not choose to be a 'liberal' because they believe in the liberal issues, but they can choose not to be 'conservative' because they see the visceral attitudes exhibited by said group.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
You're so jealous you can't see straight.

Everything still straight in your part of the world?

 

[remie]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
...I've tried very hard to be the smart liberal on the board. One that is reminiscent of the democrats of the reagan era. Believe me, its not easy considering some of the other 'liberals' on the board that allow the grouping of liberals to be easily accomplished. ....

While I am conservative, and dont often agree with some of your posts, I do respect liberals who are thoughtful and I feel that you fit that description. As long as KL is the same smart liberal I can live with that. It also drives me a little nuts to hear either side lump everyone of either political leaning into the same pile. As you said, ok to throw a little mud as long as you do it with a smile on your face.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
sure you can jim, we see it on a weekly basis here.

how many people do you see post about the lies, slander, bias, and hate of the liberals?

Some of these people choose to be conservatives or republicans because of it. The reverse also holds true.

Someone might not choose to be a 'liberal' because they believe in the liberal issues, but they can choose not to be 'conservative' because they see the visceral attitudes exhibited by said group.

Oh yeah. libs never lie or personal attack.

I want to dip oca and newguy in hot glue, they're both roughly conservatives though. The lines are not so clear. Most of the viciousness lately you're talking about has been between conservatives. So you're model of what has actually happened here is wrong as well.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

What's visceral about my attitude? Just because I'm passionate about exposing the lies of the libs?

Here are some

IRAQ was a unilateral action.

The U.N. isn't corrupt.

Decreasing taxes doesn't stimulate the economy.

socialism works.

people only get rich through immoral means.

There is no right or wrong direction for our country, it's all just opinions.

George Bush Was Awol.

Bush knew about 9/11.

Soldiers in vietnam committed atrocious war crimes on a large scale.

There was no validity to McCarthy pursuit of communists in our government.

kerry isn't liberal.

Affirmative Action is NOT race based discrimination.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
There are many ways to persuade individuals to see one side or the other in a debate or that the issues between conservatives and liberals have definitive sides and allow a person to choose the one he/she most believes in. The worst way to do this, of course, is to force a decision based on the actions and reactions of your 'side'.

My wife, when I first met her, was so conservative that it made me look like Ted Kennedy. Through very tumultuous times and discussions we were able to come to compromises on almost everything we believed in politically even though we didn't much care for the compromise. Still, in all, it worked out for the most part.

When I first came to this board in Oct of last year, the groans from my wife were very audible, 'not another message board, geeeez'. It took me a long time to get her to garner any interest in even reading some of the posts. Once I actually got her interested enough to partake in it, with no small help from jimnyc , she really took off in trying to find out enough information for herself.

Today, you've helped her decide to be a liberal. Was it that she didn't agree with your points of view? no. Was it because she felt that the liberal side offered her a more american way of life and freedom of opportunity? no. It wasn't that either. It was the constant onslaught of liberal bashing that finally made her decide that she didn't want to be anything like most of the 'conservatives' on the board. Thats certainly not what I had in mind for her in order to allow her to choose what she wants. She simply chose what she didn't want to be.

While it is sometimes fun to throw a little mud at the other side, provided its done in fun, and even though things do get heated sometimes because someone pisses us off with a stupid ass comment, it shouldn't have to come down to choosing NOT to be like that side or this side.

I've tried very hard to be the smart liberal on the board. One that is reminiscent of the democrats of the reagan era. Believe me, its not easy considering some of the other 'liberals' on the board that allow the grouping of liberals to be easily accomplished. With the exception of the yahoo boards, I've never seen a group more happily inclined to just throw out slander towards the liberal side, simply because they want to. It makes it very easy to want to not be involved politically because of the trash that gets thrown from both sides of the fence, so I'm flaming most of the liberals at this point as well. The extremism and partisanship is whats going to divide this country in half and COULD eventually lead to all out civil war. Some of you may think thats ridiculous but look around you, see whats going on. The hatred that exists right now between liberals and conservatives has never been more pronounced. Who cares who's to blame at this point, fixing it is more important, and its not going to be fixed by demanding everyone choose one side or the other, lest you forget all the independent thinkers out there that don't play the game but still believe in things.

Just food for thought guys, you've probably blown your best chance ever at honestly turning someone, who admittedly didn't know a whole lot about politics, into a true conservative but failed to do so because you couldn't get over your dislike for liberalism.

While it means little to nothing at this point, I have recognized my own behavior as being incredibly bad along these lines, and have changed focus to try to correct this. I am also aware that I am not easily considered "liberal" or "conservative" but that is irrelevant.

The point here is a person's mind is incredibly important and people deserve to be treated like best friends wether in opposing viewpoints or not. Getting someone else to view things your way is irrelevant. Getting a real discussion about issues when all parties are supposed to find a SOLUTION is what is important.

As people, as Americans, and as people of whatever faiths we may or may not have, we are supposed to be able to seperate the issues FROM the people. We can violently disagree with issues, but the people are still just like us with all the same flaws and frailties.

For what it is worth, I want to extend MY apologies for my behavior and will make every effort to rectify any further future potential damage to anyone.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by NewGuy
While it means little to nothing at this point, I have recognized my own behavior as being incredibly bad along these lines, and have changed focus to try to correct this. I am also aware that I am not easily considered "liberal" or "conservative" but that is irrelevant.

The point here is a person's mind is incredibly important people deserve to be treated like best friends wether in opposing viewpoints or not. Getting someone else to view things your way is irrelevant. Getting a real discussion about issues when all parties are supposed to find a SOLUTION is what is important.

As people, as Americans, and as people of whatever faiths we may or may not have, we are supposed to be able to seperate the issues FROM the people. We can violently disagree with issues, but the people are still just like us with all the same flaws and frailties.

For what it is worth, I want to extend MY apologies for my behavior and will make every effort to rectify any further future potential damage to anyone.

Kissass.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Kissass.

NO, realist.

In case you haven't figured it out yet.

Age and experience grants you that if you can face reality.