The Less You Want the More You Have.

No, not really. It is a elitist point of view, for one as a method of control. If you as an individual choose to live an ascetic life, that is YOUR choice.

Don't push your philosophy on others.

The elite wish to enjoy the fruits of our labor, while denying us that pleasure. Thus they encourage us to do with less.

Eventually they hope that us peons will forget what it was like to actually have things that allowed us to do pleasurable things.
Why do you have to go to the extreme?

Nowhere does the concept imply living in poverty.

And is your pleasure in life derived from owning a bunch of things? The fruits of my labor as I see them are being financially independent and having 100% control over my time. I don't consider the acquisition of stuff the foundation of my happiness.

And how exactly am I pushing anything on you? I asked a question.
 
No, not really. It is a elitist point of view, for one as a method of control. If you as an individual choose to live an ascetic life, that is YOUR choice.

Don't push your philosophy on others.

The elite wish to enjoy the fruits of our labor, while denying us that pleasure. Thus they encourage us to do with less.

Eventually they hope that us peons will forget what it was like to actually have things that allowed us to do pleasurable things.
I want to come back to this.

How do you define the "fruits of your labor" You trade your time for dollars. The dollars are the fruit of your labor. The dollars represent your time and we all have a very finite amount of that.

So all that stuff you want or need to represent the "fruit of your labor" is just more of your time and then you have to go back to work and trade more of your time to buy more stuff.

If you took the actual fruit of your labor, the money you get for the time you trade, and spent less of it on wants that "fruit" can be used to seed an orchard and that orchard will eventually allow you to to keep all of your time to use as you wish instead of selling it for dollars.
 
I want to come back to this.

How do you define the "fruits of your labor" You trade your time for dollars. The dollars are the fruit of your labor. The dollars represent your time and we all have a very finite amount of that.

So all that stuff you want or need to represent the "fruit of your labor" is just more of your time and then you have to go back to work and trade more of your time to buy more stuff.

If you took the actual fruit of your labor, the money you get for the time you trade, and spent less of it on wants that "fruit" can be used to seed an orchard and that orchard will eventually allow you to to keep all of your time to use as you wish instead of selling it for dollars.



I spend my money on flying. I have thousands of hours in the cockpit, and I have had the privilege to fly some extraordinary airplanes.

That costs money. Lots of it. I was happy to trade my time at work, to earn the dollars, to pay for my time in the cockpit.

And, I didn't accuse you of trying to push your ideals on me, I said what and how YOU choose to live your life is YOUR choice.

Just don't push your philosophy on me.
 
I spend my money on flying. I have thousands of hours in the cockpit, and I have had the privilege to fly some extraordinary airplanes.

That costs money. Lots of it. I was happy to trade my time at work, to earn the dollars, to pay for my time in the cockpit.

And, I didn't accuse you of trying to push your ideals on me, I said what and how YOU choose to live your life is YOUR choice.

Just don't push your philosophy on me.
Again how do you get I am pushing my philosophy on you?

If you don't like the idea I am talking about then don't bother replying to me.
 
Are you clueless? That is what the World Economic Forum and our wanna be Overlords think
This has nothing to do with the WEF.

If you read my first post you'd see I am discussing this from a very old point of view espoused by the Stoics Taoists and Buddhists.
 
Again how do you get I am pushing my philosophy on you?

If you don't like the idea I am talking about then don't bother replying to me.



Why are you presenting your question then?
 
This has nothing to do with the WEF.

If you read my first post you'd see I am discussing this from a very old point of view espoused by the Stoics Taoists and Buddhists.


And as a philosophy of life discussion it is fine. But nowadays that is being forced on people who want nothing to do with it.

Many people are choosing to live in tiny houses and the like. But most choose not to.
 
It's an old saying used by several schools of thought: Stoicism, Taoism, Buddhism to mention a few.

Does it ring true to you? Or are you of the mind that the unfettered acquisition of stuff is what defines your happiness?


It took me a few years when I was younger... but I completely found that "less is more" is a tremendous truth that is almost completely lost on Americans.
I am 57. Therefore I am smack in the middle of the "me generation" - Gen X.
The "Debt as income" generation. Where everyone bough McMansions, had 5 figures in credit card debt - at least one Re-Fi equity loan against their home etc. etc.
It hit me when I was about 32 I think.
We had $7000 in credit card debt, two car payments - working out asses off and NOTHING in savings.
Long story short - I changed everything.
We make pretty decent money, more than most... but Bonzi drives a 2016 Ford Fusion and I drive a 2006 Explorer.
We have no debts other than the mortgage. None.
Not caring about what vehicle you are driving is extremely satisfying. Not having perpetual car payments is the only sane way to live.
 
And as a philosophy of life discussion it is fine. But nowadays that is being forced on people who want nothing to do with it.

Many people are choosing to live in tiny houses and the like. But most choose not to.
Who is forcing it and who is being forced?
 
It took me a few years when I was younger... but I completely found that "less is more" is a tremendous truth that is almost completely lost on Americans.
I am 57. Therefore I am smack in the middle of the "me generation" - Gen X.
The "Debt as income" generation. Where everyone bough McMansions, had 5 figures in credit card debt - at least one Re-Fi equity loan against their home etc. etc.
It hit me when I was about 32 I think.
We had $7000 in credit card debt, two car payments - working out asses off and NOTHING in savings.
Long story short - I changed everything.
We make pretty decent money, more than most... but Bonzi drives a 2016 Ford Fusion and I drive a 2006 Explorer.
We have no debts other than the mortgage. None.
Not caring about what vehicle you are driving is extremely satisfying. Not having perpetual car payments is the only sane way to live.
I grew up poorer than dirt poor and I'll admit I was obsessed with making money because it was my only way out. But it was the money not the things I could buy with it that was the key. So I have lived like a minimalist before it was a thing on YouTube.

I don't find myself regretting that I never bought that motorcycle or a pair of shoes or some kitchen gadget etc
 
Gee maybe for a discussion on philosophies

You flatter yourself if you think I directed a thread at you personally.


Which I didn't. In this era it is hard to determine why a particular discussion is started. I almost always am correct when the ultimate goal is political.

Yours is clearly not, and I did engage at that level. Most of my money is spent on flying. I have a lot of things, but they mostly support my flying.

But I know some people who are quite happy traveling the country in a very tricked out 4X4 truck. Pretty much all they own they take with them.
 
I grew up poorer than dirt poor and I'll admit I was obsessed with making money because it was my only way out. But it was the money not the things I could buy with it that was the key. So I have lived like a minimalist before it was a thing on YouTube.

I don't find myself regretting that I never bought that motorcycle or a pair of shoes or some kitchen gadget etc
Way back on another forum well before 2008 I wrote "no one should have a mortgage that is more than 20% of your NET monthly income. (Not counting taxes and insurance)
I was laughed out of the that thread.
Everyone said "no one could possible have enough down payment to have that low of a payment!!"
My answer to that was - yeah, because homes are grossly overpriced. To the point of insanity.
Only Diamonds are more overpriced than homes were before 2008.
(And today they are right back to being stupidly over valued) Another 2008 is just around the corner.
People with $200,000 annual income living in a $500,000 home is incredibly stupid. Over the top insane. And some consider this scenario too cheap
 
Who is forcing it and who is being forced?



The way you presented the thread was slightly challenging, at least thst is how I perceived it.

I too was poor, and lived in a truck for many years. Some will say I have over compensated but pretty much everything I have, I use.
 
Way back on another forum well before 2008 I wrote "no one should have a mortgage that is more than 20% of your NET monthly income. (Not counting taxes and insurance)
I was laughed out of the that thread.
Everyone said "no one could possible have enough down payment to have that low of a payment!!"
My answer to that was - yeah, because homes are grossly overpriced. To the point of insanity.
Only Diamonds are more overpriced than homes were before 2008.
(And today they are right back to being stupidly over valued) Another 2008 is just around the corner.
People with $200,000 annual income living in a $500,000 home is incredibly stupid. Over the top insane. And some consider this scenario too cheap
I used to flip houses and I was always amazed that people didn't want to start with a small home they could fix up and sell at a tax free profit after a couple years.
 
I used to flip houses and I was always amazed that people didn't want to start with a small home they could fix up and sell at a tax free profit after a couple years.
I paid off all of our debts by flipping houses.
The "long story short" I mention in the first post... that is a part of the long story of how I changed my life.
We had $7000 in credit card debt, another $3500 in store credit (Sear/JC Penney etc) I knew there wa s no way we were EVER going to get out of this debt by the two jobs.
So I worked everyday after work until after dark and every weekend from dawn to dusk flipping houses for about 4 years.
I not only paid off all of our non-mortgage debts, but paid $30,000 cash to completely remodel our kitchen and built a large outdoor patio.
Then I realized while flipping houses that these roofing guys were making fast money. So I quit the HUGE stress of flipping houses with just doing roofing. I could make $1500 in a single weekend. Tax free.
Because of those choices and others... our retirement is completely taken care of, even if the economy collapses.
 
Wanting is a double edged sword. Those who "want" things are often highly ambitious. They are willing to do what need to be done to get the things, lifestyle they want. If there is no "want to", then is there the same drive to work hard, succeed, burn the midnight oil. There is nothing wrong with wanting things in life. However, like everything in life, there needs to be balance. Too much wanting can lead to greed and one's downfall, destroying the person's life, relationships, etc.
Not enough wanting can make someone lazy, comfortable, complacent. Needs to be a balance
 
Wanting is a double edged sword. Those who "want" things are often highly ambitious. They are willing to do what need to be done to get the things, lifestyle they want. If there is no "want to", then is there the same drive to work hard, succeed, burn the midnight oil. There is nothing wrong with wanting things in life. However, like everything in life, there needs to be balance. Too much wanting can lead to greed and one's downfall, destroying the person's life, relationships, etc.
Not enough wanting can make someone lazy, comfortable, complacent. Needs to be a balance
I don't think your premise is correct.

And the idea of wanting less does not exclude wanting something. It's meant more to prompt a person to really evaluate the things they think they want.
 
No one would say we live a minimalist life. Not even close.
But since the late 90s I have always believed in living below your means.
I can't tell you how good it feels to not have debts. The freedom that comes with it.
IMO - buying a new car is a form of insanity. You are making one of the worst financial moves possible.
Consider...
Buying a new car (and never paying it off, you always "recycle the car" and buy another one)

5 years of paying $500/mo = $30,000.
And you do that over and over. Over a 40 year period you have spent $240,000.
 

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