The Kremlin is lying about its invasion of Ukraine. It is throttling independent journalism and freedom of speech to try to kill the truth.

[Litwin]

one for sure the responsible will be tried for war crimes! I SALUTE TO YOU ALL, FELLOW UKRAINIANS!

 

[theHawk]

Litwin still not picking up a gun to fight the Russkies.

I guess it’s not that important.

 

[Litwin]

Litwin still

still busy blowing up chechens ?

 

[theHawk]

still busy blowing up chechens ?

View attachment 682365

Wow, Ukrainian propagandists can’t meme worth shit.


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Remember your guy Obama when he wanted to send a message to Putin that he’d bend over backwards for him after he is re-elected?

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Then of course Russia annexed Crimea on Obama’s watch.

 

[ESay]

Wow, Ukrainian propagandists can’t meme worth shit.


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Remember your guy Obama when he wanted to send a message to Putin that he’d bend over backwards for him after he is re-elected?

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View attachment 682366


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Then of course Russia annexed Crimea on Obama’s watch.

Didn't you defend the right of people of Crimea and Donbas to decide their own fate after an 'illegal coup' in 2014?

 

[para bellum]

Wow, Ukrainian propagandists can’t meme worth shit.

I thought it was funny, lol. It captured the tone of Russian social media pretty well.

Remember your guy Obama when he wanted to send a message to Putin that he’d bend over backwards for him after he is re-elected?

View attachment 682366

Then of course Russia annexed Crimea on Obama’s watch.

So is your position that Obama had Russia policy right? Appeasing Putin is the right call?

Leveling villages like Plisky with thermobaric bombs is okay? Stationing artillery on nuclear reactors and shelling nearby cities is not a big deal? Bombing theaters, shelters, hospitals, murdering civilians and POW's, oh well?

If you don't give a crap about Ukraine, I guess that's fine. But if that's the case, why do you actively try to undermine the people who do?

 

[theHawk]

Didn't you defend the right of people of Crimea and Donbas to decide their own fate after an 'illegal coup' in 2014?

Yes, they do have the right to decide their own fate.

But these globalist idiots think otherwise.

 

[theHawk]

If you don't give a crap about Ukraine

I don’t give a crap about Ukraine.

 

[para bellum]

I don’t give a crap about Ukraine.

Well I think Litwin is Lithuanian and has a different view. The video he posted was from NATO, I don't see anything propagandist in it, it's factual.

Repetitively so- it was first posted back in March, and everything depicted has happened over and over since then.

Russia is doing genocide and ethnic cleansing in Ukraine. I get it that you don't care, but I don't get why you should be taking Russia's side if you are a conservative.

I even get it if you say "fuck the EU and NATO", but that still doesn't get me to a point where you should favor Russia over the EU and NATO.

And before you say it, when you always criticize the Ukraine side, and never the Russia side, you are taking sides whether you admit it or not.

jmho.

 

[theHawk]

Well I think Litwin is Lithuanian and has a different view. The video he posted was from NATO, I don't see anything propagandist in it, it's factual.

Repetitively so- it was first posted back in March, and everything depicted has happened over and over since then.

Russia is doing genocide and ethnic cleansing in Ukraine. I get it that you don't care, but I don't get why you should be taking Russia's side if you are a conservative.

I even get it if you say "fuck the EU and NATO", but that still doesn't get me to a point where you should favor Russia over the EU and NATO.

And before you say it, when you always criticize the Ukraine side, and never the Russia side, you are taking sides whether you admit it or not.

jmho.

I don’t take Ukraine’s side because they aren’t a democracy. They are just as much as a corrupt mafia run country as Russia. How is that taking “Russia’s side”?

They are also not NATO, and NATO is being the aggressor by moving East and inviting Ukraine into NATO. Russia will not tolerate Ukraine going into NATO. They would rather raze Ukraine to the ground than allow that to happen. That may not be “right”, we may not like it, but it is the way the Russians feel.

The people of the Donbas region want their independence from the corrupt Kiev government. Who the hell am I to tell them “no”? Do I want to pick up a gun and shoot those people, or drop bombs on them? No, I don’t, and I will not. Because I won’t, I also will not ask someone else to do it for me. I also oppose paying the Ukraine government to do that. I want no part of it.

So forget your “you’re taking sides no matter what”.

 

[Litwin]

I don’t take Ukraine’s side because they aren’t a democracy.

IVAN, YOU ARE LYING AND YOU WILL BURN IN THE HELL FOR THIS

 

[theHawk]

IVAN, YOU ARE LYING AND YOU WILL BURN IN THE HELL FOR THIS

^^ See how these morons can’t even debate anything?

All you do is throw a tantrum like a petulant child and call anyone who isn’t swallowing your propaganda “Ivan” or a “Russian agent”.

 

[Litwin]

“Ivan” or a “Russian agent”.

 

[para bellum]

I don’t take Ukraine’s side because they aren’t a democracy. They are just as much as a corrupt mafia run country as Russia. How is that taking “Russia’s side”?

It is giving Russia a pass for doing the very thing you say- razing Ukraine to the ground. And killing tens of thousands of civilians in the process.

Ukraine is a country in transition, they are not there yet. The 2019 elections were observed by the OSCE and their report concluded that it was largely a free and competitive election. Allegations of improprieties were almost exclusively leveled at the incumbent Poroshenko, not at Zelensky.

https://www.osce.org/files/f/documents/8/3/439631_0.pdf

They are also not NATO, and NATO is being the aggressor by moving East and inviting Ukraine into NATO. Russia will not tolerate Ukraine going into NATO. They would rather raze Ukraine to the ground than allow that to happen. That may not be “right”, we may not like it, but it is the way the Russians feel.

NATO did not invite Ukraine to join. Ukraine expressed interest, and NATO was receptive, but no MAP was ever offered and France and Germany both said no.

Russia does not have the right to dictate NATO policy, or say what countries can or can't join whatever alliances they want. That is a sovereign decision.

And NATO has not threatened anyone, and neither has Ukraine. And like you don't give a crap about Ukraine, I don't give a crap about Putin's demand that NATO must remove it's security umbrella from southern Europe. Fuck Putin.

In 1994, Russia agreed to respect Ukraine's borders, and (with our encouragement and funding) spent the next 20 years disarming Ukraine. When that task was finished, they invaded and annexed Crimea, and took control of the portion of Ukraine that has all the gas and mineral wealth.

So again I say, fuck Putin. He knows NATO was not threatening anyone. Countries want to join NATO because they don't want to suffer the same treatment from Russia that Ukraine is receiving right now.

The people of the Donbas region want their independence from the corrupt Kiev government. Who the hell am I to tell them “no”? Do I want to pick up a gun and shoot those people, or drop bombs on them? No, I don’t, and I will not. Because I won’t, I also will not ask someone else to do it for me. I also oppose paying the Ukraine government to do that. I want no part of it.

I don't believe the people who lived in the Donbas before Russia's 2014 invasion would have voted anywhere near the numbers that is reported. Most of the people who could flee already had fled, and they weren't given a vote. Illegitimate referendums do not make new countries.

I think they wanted more autonomy, and I think they could have got it if they were peaceful about it. That was not in Russia's interest, so Putin sent in his proxies to start a civil war.

So forget your “you’re taking sides no matter what”.

Your entire post is taking Russia's side. You are offering the same rationalizations as Putin, for a brutal and illegal invasion of a neighbor who made no threats toward Russia whatsoever.

 

[theHawk]

View attachment 682546

Yes, that perfectly describes our Democrats.

 

[AZrailwhale]

I don’t take Ukraine’s side because they aren’t a democracy. They are just as much as a corrupt mafia run country as Russia. How is that taking “Russia’s side”?

They are also not NATO, and NATO is being the aggressor by moving East and inviting Ukraine into NATO. Russia will not tolerate Ukraine going into NATO. They would rather raze Ukraine to the ground than allow that to happen. That may not be “right”, we may not like it, but it is the way the Russians feel.

The people of the Donbas region want their independence from the corrupt Kiev government. Who the hell am I to tell them “no”? Do I want to pick up a gun and shoot those people, or drop bombs on them? No, I don’t, and I will not. Because I won’t, I also will not ask someone else to do it for me. I also oppose paying the Ukraine government to do that. I want no part of it.

So forget your “you’re taking sides no matter what”.

There is no Donbas, just like there was no Confederacy. The people rooting for separation are Russian imports, not Ukrainian citizens living in that region. NATO is not recruiting ex-Warsaw Pact countries, those countries are begging to join NATO out of fear of an expansionist Russia run by Putin. Russia has been invading its peaceful neighbors since 2014, no one has attacked Russia or tried to annex its territory.

 

[theHawk]

In 1994, Russia agreed to respect Ukraine's borders, and (with our encouragement and funding) spent the next 20 years disarming Ukraine. When that task was finished, they invaded and annexed Crimea, and took control of the portion of Ukraine that has all the gas and mineral wealth.

So again I say, fuck Putin. He knows NATO was not threatening anyone. Countries want to join NATO because they don't want to suffer the same treatment from Russia that Ukraine is receiving right now.

Not really. The Russians objected to the “gifting of Crimea“ in the 1990’s and called it illegitimate. They continued to negotiate for keeping Crimea, as it has been one of Russia’s primary Naval bases for hundreds of years. Ukraine agreed to let Russia have it until 2042 (Kharkiv Pact). Then the insurrection and coup happened, and all pacts between Ukraine and Russia were null and void, so Russia annexed it.

There is no way Russia is giving up Crimea without a nuclear fight. You can act like a tough guy all you want with your ”fuck Putin”. In the real world Russia owns Crimea and even Obama was smart enough to realize that and let it be.

 

[theHawk]

There is no Donbas, just like there was no Confederacy. The people rooting for separation are Russian imports, not Ukrainian citizens living in that region. NATO is not recruiting ex-Warsaw Pact countries, those countries are begging to join NATO out of fear of an expansionist Russia run by Putin. Russia has been invading its peaceful neighbors since 2014, no one has attacked Russia or tried to annex its territory.

Oh, so suddenly borders and citizenship matter?

 

[theHawk]

Your entire post is taking Russia's side. You are offering the same rationalizations as Putin, for a brutal and illegal invasion of a neighbor who made no threats toward Russia whatsoever.

I am not taking Russia’s side. I look at the whole situation as an unbiased third party. I have no stake in the matter, other than how it affects my country with foreign policy and potential war.

If my rationalizations are the “same as Putin’s”, then it is because that’s where the facts lead to.

Funny how you call it an illegal invasion. Yet how many countries have we invaded or bombed in the last 50 years? Are we the only county in the world allowed to engage in warfare for our own strategic interests?

 

[ESay]

Yes, they do have the right to decide their own fate.

But these globalist idiots think otherwise.

So, Obama made a right thing then allowing Russia to seize Crimea and part of the Donbas. Why are you complaining?