The Humanitarian Gaza Flotillas Saga

[flacaltenn]

The PA hasnt done the job of governing or representing the Palis SINCE 2007. If its not functioning, its "not still there".. Just like an election that leads to no more elections,,,,,,, was really NOT an election.

That depends on how you look at it. In June of 2007 Abbas left the government and set up an illegal "emergency government" in the West Bank. The liars call this the PA. The part of the legal PA that was in Gaza continued to be there.

That is such a large pile of horse shit I dont know how to start. NEITHER half of the PA has been functioning as an elected representative body since 2007. No meetings, no elections, no diplomacy, no legislation passed by representative vote. What part of NO FUNCTIONING NATIONAL representation dontcha understand?

There were not many elections in Nazi occupied territories.

I see no parallel there. Israel didnt cause the breakdown of Pali national democracy.
But yet of course its their fault that Arabs cant seem to get along under systems of govt that arent
Theocracies or dictators or military rule. The Palis screwed that up...

Actually it was the US that trashed their whole political system in 2007 and has not allowed it to get back together again.

Thats quite an exaggeration. Way to go. Ignore the mistakes and errors of the Palis themselves and blame all that on anybody else you hate. Thats what makes this forum a study in denial.

 

[flacaltenn]

The Palis screwed it up with a little pressure from the US to hold "elections" prematurely.

Elections were held under Arafat. He rigged the election by letting Khalil, a little known 72 yr old grandmother, be his only opposition.........and she still got 12% of the vote.
Middle east is not known for truly fair elections. Most are won by 90+%, which to westerners is seen as near impossible. The process is still somewhat alien to the people. Elections are not choices but affirmation. There is no surprise as to who will win. More often than not candidates are forced off the ballot or are eliminated, permanently.
The fact that hamas was elected to parliament at all was a fluke. Fatah won the most votes, but the vote was split between too many candidates and hamas slid in by default. They did not have popular support even in gaza. After the elections they forced their way into control of gaza and killed or threw out fatah members of government.

Real democracy for the arabs is still quite a way off. They are still predominantly a tribal people.

That is certainly the miscalculation of the American neocons who envisioned a domino theory of democracy
Starting with Iraq ending in the chaos of the Arab Spring. But Israel should have known better than to be blind sided by the Hamas intrusion into Pali Nationalism. The majority of Arab countries NEED strongman secular dictators OR some form of theocracy. What a choice eh? But it IS their choice to make. Pali nationalism just might NEED another Arafat. Hopefully one who appreciates the value of economic development and peace.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

If only America was as powerful as it would actually have to be to have managed all it is accused of.

The PA hasnt done the job of governing or representing the Palis SINCE 2007. If its not functioning, its "not still there".. Just like an election that leads to no more elections,,,,,,, was really NOT an election.

That depends on how you look at it. In June of 2007 Abbas left the government and set up an illegal "emergency government" in the West Bank. The liars call this the PA. The part of the legal PA that was in Gaza continued to be there.

That is such a large pile of horse shit I dont know how to start. NEITHER half of the PA has been functioning as an elected representative body since 2007. No meetings, no elections, no diplomacy, no legislation passed by representative vote. What part of NO FUNCTIONING NATIONAL representation dontcha understand?

There were not many elections in Nazi occupied territories.

I see no parallel there. Israel didnt cause the breakdown of Pali national democracy.
But yet of course its their fault that Arabs cant seem to get along under systems of govt that arent
Theocracies or dictators or military rule. The Palis screwed that up...

Actually it was the US that trashed their whole political system in 2007 and has not allowed it to get back together again.

(COMMENT)

This is not America's fault. HAMAS is a "designated terrorist organization" --- and as such, under Security Council Resolution 1373, America cannot legally "providing any form of support, active or passive, to entities or persons involved in terrorist acts;" under international law and under domestic federal law.

This is really the case of the Arab Palestinians electing a terrorist organization to a position of power and leadership --- yet, unable to take responsibility for their actions and the consequences that followed.

The democratic process in the State of Palestine (alla 1988), is in the hands of the Palestinians; and has always been in the hands of Palestinians. No one ever took that away from the Palestinians; not Israel and not America.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Challenger]

P F Tinmore, et al,

If only America was as powerful as it would actually have to be to have managed all it is accused of.

That depends on how you look at it. In June of 2007 Abbas left the government and set up an illegal "emergency government" in the West Bank. The liars call this the PA. The part of the legal PA that was in Gaza continued to be there.

That is such a large pile of horse shit I dont know how to start. NEITHER half of the PA has been functioning as an elected representative body since 2007. No meetings, no elections, no diplomacy, no legislation passed by representative vote. What part of NO FUNCTIONING NATIONAL representation dontcha understand?

There were not many elections in Nazi occupied territories.

I see no parallel there. Israel didnt cause the breakdown of Pali national democracy.
But yet of course its their fault that Arabs cant seem to get along under systems of govt that arent
Theocracies or dictators or military rule. The Palis screwed that up...

Actually it was the US that trashed their whole political system in 2007 and has not allowed it to get back together again.

(COMMENT)

This is not America's fault. HAMAS is a "designated terrorist organization" --- and as such, under Security Council Resolution 1373, America cannot legally "providing any form of support, active or passive, to entities or persons involved in terrorist acts;" under international law and under domestic federal law.

This is really the case of the Arab Palestinians electing a terrorist organization to a position of power and leadership --- yet, unable to take responsibility for their actions and the consequences that followed.

The democratic process in the State of Palestine (alla 1988), is in the hands of the Palestinians; and has always been in the hands of Palestinians. No one ever took that away from the Palestinians; not Israel and not America.

Most Respectfully,
R

Bizarre argument. America designated Hamas as a terrorist organisation because of intense Zionist pressure, both foreign and domestic, which it now uses as an excuse not provide "any form of support". Interesting that SCR1373 fails to define the "terrorism" it rails against.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

If only America was as powerful as it would actually have to be to have managed all it is accused of.

That depends on how you look at it. In June of 2007 Abbas left the government and set up an illegal "emergency government" in the West Bank. The liars call this the PA. The part of the legal PA that was in Gaza continued to be there.

That is such a large pile of horse shit I dont know how to start. NEITHER half of the PA has been functioning as an elected representative body since 2007. No meetings, no elections, no diplomacy, no legislation passed by representative vote. What part of NO FUNCTIONING NATIONAL representation dontcha understand?

There were not many elections in Nazi occupied territories.

I see no parallel there. Israel didnt cause the breakdown of Pali national democracy.
But yet of course its their fault that Arabs cant seem to get along under systems of govt that arent
Theocracies or dictators or military rule. The Palis screwed that up...

Actually it was the US that trashed their whole political system in 2007 and has not allowed it to get back together again.

(COMMENT)

This is not America's fault. HAMAS is a "designated terrorist organization" --- and as such, under Security Council Resolution 1373, America cannot legally "providing any form of support, active or passive, to entities or persons involved in terrorist acts;" under international law and under domestic federal law.

This is really the case of the Arab Palestinians electing a terrorist organization to a position of power and leadership --- yet, unable to take responsibility for their actions and the consequences that followed.

The democratic process in the State of Palestine (alla 1988), is in the hands of the Palestinians; and has always been in the hands of Palestinians. No one ever took that away from the Palestinians; not Israel and not America.

Most Respectfully,
R

Where does the UN call Hamas a terrorist organization?

Reaffirming further
that such acts, like any act of international terrorism,
constitute a threat to international peace and security,​

Hamas does not operate outside of its own territory.

Reaffirming
the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence as
recognized by the Charter of the United Nations as reiterated in resolution 1368
(2001)

Deeply concerned
by the increase, in various regions of the world, of acts of
terrorism motivated by intolerance or extremism,​

Hamas is a national liberation movement. The Palestinians have the right, as stated above, to defend themselves.

The Palestinians did not elect terrorists. They are not terrorists in Palestine where they were elected. They don't buy into the third grade name calling of Israel and its toadies in the west.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

If only America was as powerful as it would actually have to be to have managed all it is accused of.

That is such a large pile of horse shit I dont know how to start. NEITHER half of the PA has been functioning as an elected representative body since 2007. No meetings, no elections, no diplomacy, no legislation passed by representative vote. What part of NO FUNCTIONING NATIONAL representation dontcha understand?

There were not many elections in Nazi occupied territories.

I see no parallel there. Israel didnt cause the breakdown of Pali national democracy.
But yet of course its their fault that Arabs cant seem to get along under systems of govt that arent
Theocracies or dictators or military rule. The Palis screwed that up...

Actually it was the US that trashed their whole political system in 2007 and has not allowed it to get back together again.

(COMMENT)

This is not America's fault. HAMAS is a "designated terrorist organization" --- and as such, under Security Council Resolution 1373, America cannot legally "providing any form of support, active or passive, to entities or persons involved in terrorist acts;" under international law and under domestic federal law.

This is really the case of the Arab Palestinians electing a terrorist organization to a position of power and leadership --- yet, unable to take responsibility for their actions and the consequences that followed.

The democratic process in the State of Palestine (alla 1988), is in the hands of the Palestinians; and has always been in the hands of Palestinians. No one ever took that away from the Palestinians; not Israel and not America.

Most Respectfully,
R

Bizarre argument. America designated Hamas as a terrorist organisation because of intense Zionist pressure, both foreign and domestic, which it now uses as an excuse not provide "any form of support". Interesting that SCR1373 fails to define the "terrorism" it rails against.

I have always thought that.

Israel tells the US to designate Hamas, and every other political party in Palestine, as terrorists.

The US response was yawza boss. What a bunch of stooges.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

If only America was as powerful as it would actually have to be to have managed all it is accused of.

That depends on how you look at it. In June of 2007 Abbas left the government and set up an illegal "emergency government" in the West Bank. The liars call this the PA. The part of the legal PA that was in Gaza continued to be there.

That is such a large pile of horse shit I dont know how to start. NEITHER half of the PA has been functioning as an elected representative body since 2007. No meetings, no elections, no diplomacy, no legislation passed by representative vote. What part of NO FUNCTIONING NATIONAL representation dontcha understand?

There were not many elections in Nazi occupied territories.

I see no parallel there. Israel didnt cause the breakdown of Pali national democracy.
But yet of course its their fault that Arabs cant seem to get along under systems of govt that arent
Theocracies or dictators or military rule. The Palis screwed that up...

Actually it was the US that trashed their whole political system in 2007 and has not allowed it to get back together again.

(COMMENT)

This is not America's fault. HAMAS is a "designated terrorist organization" --- and as such, under Security Council Resolution 1373, America cannot legally "providing any form of support, active or passive, to entities or persons involved in terrorist acts;" under international law and under domestic federal law.

This is really the case of the Arab Palestinians electing a terrorist organization to a position of power and leadership --- yet, unable to take responsibility for their actions and the consequences that followed.

The democratic process in the State of Palestine (alla 1988), is in the hands of the Palestinians; and has always been in the hands of Palestinians. No one ever took that away from the Palestinians; not Israel and not America.

Most Respectfully,
R

If only America was as powerful as it would actually have to be to have managed all it is accused of.​

It doesn't take that much to overthrow a government hanging on by its fingernails under occupation.

 

[Phoenall]

Don't need the UN declaration PF.. I need the proof that bell peppers cannot leave Gaza by sea..

Bell peppers exported from Gaza for first time in years
Been exporting them for years, by land.
Boats are limited to six miles, for fishing.

No deep port in gaza for large ships. Israel was in the process if building one before the hand over of gaza to the palestinians. They were dredging to accommodate ships. The original plan was more for cruise ships but a deep port could have accommodated cargo as well.

Your links are years old and I don't see any facts on the ground showing that these are true.

One link is from 2012, and the other is from M'Aan.. At the least they show that there has been times of opening up the embargo.. You had brought up the "bell peppers".. Produce a link showing that bell peppers are banned for export. Or specific instances where they were not allowed to cross. By YOUR rules -- make sure it's recent.


MAYBE -- there was just never SURPLUS for most years to export a particular crop like bell peppers or there was too much fighting to produce a representative yield.

From 2007 till 2010 many exports were blocked because of hamas control of gaza. Hamas had kicked out fatah from gaza and the agreement for exports was not with hamas but the PA.

Hamas was and in some cases still is a terrorist organization. They don't want formal negotiations with Israel. Any attempts as negotiations have been through third parties.
Hamas prefers to make 'demands' and fire on Israel rather than work out any agreement. Even after ceasefires, periods of quiet, hamas does not last long before they shatter the calm and attract Israeli retaliation.

I still had problems finding out the CURRENT rules for the blockade.. Why isn't there a precise statement of what can go in and out of Gaza? THAT -- bugs me... GREATLY..

Because it leaves room for Hamas and propaganists to claim that any old thing they confiscate can be blamed on the "illegal" Israeli blockade. And there's no reason NOT to publicly state the rules -- other than to torment and confuse the Gazans..

This is the latest I can find and it is comprehensive


Gaza imports - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Phoenall]

Your word is not proof, so produce the evidence that it was not
A) outside of the restricted zone
or
B) smuggling

I did. I produced the video that said they were in Gazan territorial waters.

The burden of proof is now on you to produce a video that says they weren't.

Didya WATCH it? Because at the end, the protesters said IN ENGLISH -- "We are International" presumably meaning they were in Intl waters and OUT of the six mile limit. Make up your mind Billo. Territorial or Intl..

If Gaza had a govt -- there would be a CLAIM to territorial waters.

"We are International" means that they are not Palestinian. Somebody like the ISM.

They notify the Israelis in hopes that they will be less trigger happy with foreign nationals.

BTW, Palestinians are allowed to fish to 20 miles by treaty.

What treaty and when was it signed by a representative of gaza ?

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

If only America was as powerful as it would actually have to be to have managed all it is accused of.

There were not many elections in Nazi occupied territories.

I see no parallel there. Israel didnt cause the breakdown of Pali national democracy.
But yet of course its their fault that Arabs cant seem to get along under systems of govt that arent
Theocracies or dictators or military rule. The Palis screwed that up...

Actually it was the US that trashed their whole political system in 2007 and has not allowed it to get back together again.

(COMMENT)

This is not America's fault. HAMAS is a "designated terrorist organization" --- and as such, under Security Council Resolution 1373, America cannot legally "providing any form of support, active or passive, to entities or persons involved in terrorist acts;" under international law and under domestic federal law.

This is really the case of the Arab Palestinians electing a terrorist organization to a position of power and leadership --- yet, unable to take responsibility for their actions and the consequences that followed.

The democratic process in the State of Palestine (alla 1988), is in the hands of the Palestinians; and has always been in the hands of Palestinians. No one ever took that away from the Palestinians; not Israel and not America.

Most Respectfully,
R

Bizarre argument. America designated Hamas as a terrorist organisation because of intense Zionist pressure, both foreign and domestic, which it now uses as an excuse not provide "any form of support". Interesting that SCR1373 fails to define the "terrorism" it rails against.

I have always thought that.

Israel tells the US to designate Hamas, and every other political party in Palestine, as terrorists.

The US response was yawza boss. What a bunch of stooges.

Howza bout a link to this claim then, and not some islamomoron propaganda source either

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

If only America was as powerful as it would actually have to be to have managed all it is accused of.

That is such a large pile of horse shit I dont know how to start. NEITHER half of the PA has been functioning as an elected representative body since 2007. No meetings, no elections, no diplomacy, no legislation passed by representative vote. What part of NO FUNCTIONING NATIONAL representation dontcha understand?

There were not many elections in Nazi occupied territories.

I see no parallel there. Israel didnt cause the breakdown of Pali national democracy.
But yet of course its their fault that Arabs cant seem to get along under systems of govt that arent
Theocracies or dictators or military rule. The Palis screwed that up...

Actually it was the US that trashed their whole political system in 2007 and has not allowed it to get back together again.

(COMMENT)

This is not America's fault. HAMAS is a "designated terrorist organization" --- and as such, under Security Council Resolution 1373, America cannot legally "providing any form of support, active or passive, to entities or persons involved in terrorist acts;" under international law and under domestic federal law.

This is really the case of the Arab Palestinians electing a terrorist organization to a position of power and leadership --- yet, unable to take responsibility for their actions and the consequences that followed.

The democratic process in the State of Palestine (alla 1988), is in the hands of the Palestinians; and has always been in the hands of Palestinians. No one ever took that away from the Palestinians; not Israel and not America.

Most Respectfully,
R

If only America was as powerful as it would actually have to be to have managed all it is accused of.​

It doesn't take that much to overthrow a government hanging on by its fingernails under occupation.

How many times have these been destroyed as nothing more than islamonazi propaganda and lies

 

[Phoenall]

Didya WATCH it? Because at the end, the protesters said IN ENGLISH -- "We are International" presumably meaning they were in Intl waters and OUT of the six mile limit. Make up your mind Billo. Territorial or Intl..

If Gaza had a govt -- there would be a CLAIM to territorial waters.

Okay, lets say you're right and I was wrong and they were in international waters. Israel has no right stopping any vessel in international waters. To do so, is called piracy.

Not according to maritime law it isn't, it might be under dildo law though. If a vessel is suspected of smuggling or carrying contraband then it can be boarded and taken to a neutral port. If they refuse to heave to they can be fired on and sunk under international maritime law

 

[Phoenall]

I still had problems finding out the CURRENT rules for the blockade.. Why isn't there a precise statement of what can go in and out of Gaza? THAT -- bugs me... GREATLY..

Because it leaves room for Hamas and propaganists to claim that any old thing they confiscate can be blamed on the "illegal" Israeli blockade. And there's no reason NOT to publicly state the rules -- other than to torment and confuse the Gazans..

The blockade collectively punishes all 1.5 million Gazans.

That is a war crime.

Not if the blockade is deemed legal and the goods banned are not those needed to sustain life. As my post giving the list of banned goods shows the Palestinians are getting humanitarian supplies, just not goods that can be used for military/offensive purposes. The goods banned are on an international treaty list of goods that can be banned.
It is hamas that withholds the goods from the people once they enter gaza and are unloaded and placed in hamas warehouses.

 

[Phoenall]

Bell peppers exported from Gaza for first time in years
Been exporting them for years, by land.
Boats are limited to six miles, for fishing.

No deep port in gaza for large ships. Israel was in the process if building one before the hand over of gaza to the palestinians. They were dredging to accommodate ships. The original plan was more for cruise ships but a deep port could have accommodated cargo as well.

Your links are years old and I don't see any facts on the ground showing that these are true.

One link is from 2012, and the other is from M'Aan.. At the least they show that there has been times of opening up the embargo.. You had brought up the "bell peppers".. Produce a link showing that bell peppers are banned for export. Or specific instances where they were not allowed to cross. By YOUR rules -- make sure it's recent.


MAYBE -- there was just never SURPLUS for most years to export a particular crop like bell peppers or there was too much fighting to produce a representative yield.

From 2007 till 2010 many exports were blocked because of hamas control of gaza. Hamas had kicked out fatah from gaza and the agreement for exports was not with hamas but the PA.

Hamas was and in some cases still is a terrorist organization. They don't want formal negotiations with Israel. Any attempts as negotiations have been through third parties.
Hamas prefers to make 'demands' and fire on Israel rather than work out any agreement. Even after ceasefires, periods of quiet, hamas does not last long before they shatter the calm and attract Israeli retaliation.

I still had problems finding out the CURRENT rules for the blockade.. Why isn't there a precise statement of what can go in and out of Gaza? THAT -- bugs me... GREATLY..

Because it leaves room for Hamas and propaganists to claim that any old thing they confiscate can be blamed on the "illegal" Israeli blockade. And there's no reason NOT to publicly state the rules -- other than to torment and confuse the Gazans..

That is because it is not about security, it is about collective punishment. Generally all exports are banned. How can exports be a security threat?

Banned items include books, paper, pencils, toys, crayons, different foods, and other ridiculous things that have nothing to do with security.

Even chocolate is banned. Ali Abunimah joked about never seeing a chocolate tipped rocket.

But I bet he has seen many chocolate fuelled ones ( do some research on the subject, and look at dual use products )

 

[Phoenall]

Your word is not proof, so produce the evidence that it was not
A) outside of the restricted zone
or
B) smuggling

I did. I produced the video that said they were in Gazan territorial waters.

The burden of proof is now on you to produce a video that says they weren't.

Didya WATCH it? Because at the end, the protesters said IN ENGLISH -- "We are International" presumably meaning they were in Intl waters and OUT of the six mile limit. Make up your mind Billo. Territorial or Intl..

If Gaza had a govt -- there would be a CLAIM to territorial waters.

"We are International" means that they are not Palestinian. Somebody like the ISM.

They notify the Israelis in hopes that they will be less trigger happy with foreign nationals.

BTW, Palestinians are allowed to fish to 20 miles by treaty.

What treaty and who signed it? Doesnt matter if there is a military embargo of weapons that needs to enforced.

Under the Oslo Agreements, the fishing range was 20 nautical miles (approximately 37 km) Lift the restrictions on the Gaza fishing range B Tselem

It is amazing how little Israel supporters know. Most of what I post nobody has ever heard of. Then I have to go find a link to something I read 5 years ago.

It is no surprise though. One thing consistent about Israel supporters is that they refuse to learn anything. It shows in their posts.

haven't you stated that Oslo is finished and no longer applies, so make your mind up time does Oslo still exist and if it does why does it only apply to Israel ?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Most countries can see that Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) operated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion, or to retaliate against government conduct; through the use f violent acts or acts dangerous to human life. HAMAS Operations appear intended:

(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination. or kidnapping
​

HAMAS and the Arab Palestinian people only plays the defense game when it to their advantage. What HAMAS does is provoke a fight or confrontation. THEN: As Islreal responds to the provocation, HAMAS cries out that Israel using excessive force.

Hamas is a national liberation movement. The Palestinians have the right, as stated above, to defend themselves.

The Palestinians did not elect terrorists. They are not terrorists in Palestine where they were elected. They don't buy into the third grade name calling of Israel and its toadies in the west.

(COMMENT)

HAMAS has both threaten to use international terrorism, and actually used international terrorism. The recognition of the UN extends to:

• Reaffirms the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination and to independence in their State of Palestine on the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967; (A/RES/67/19) (2012)
• Affirms the need to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967; (A/RES/43/177) (1988)

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Phoenall]

One link is from 2012, and the other is from M'Aan.. At the least they show that there has been times of opening up the embargo.. You had brought up the "bell peppers".. Produce a link showing that bell peppers are banned for export. Or specific instances where they were not allowed to cross. By YOUR rules -- make sure it's recent.

MAYBE -- there was just never SURPLUS for most years to export a particular crop like bell peppers or there was too much fighting to produce a representative yield.

From 2007 till 2010 many exports were blocked because of hamas control of gaza. Hamas had kicked out fatah from gaza and the agreement for exports was not with hamas but the PA.

Hamas was and in some cases still is a terrorist organization. They don't want formal negotiations with Israel. Any attempts as negotiations have been through third parties.
Hamas prefers to make 'demands' and fire on Israel rather than work out any agreement. Even after ceasefires, periods of quiet, hamas does not last long before they shatter the calm and attract Israeli retaliation.

I still had problems finding out the CURRENT rules for the blockade.. Why isn't there a precise statement of what can go in and out of Gaza? THAT -- bugs me... GREATLY..

Because it leaves room for Hamas and propaganists to claim that any old thing they confiscate can be blamed on the "illegal" Israeli blockade. And there's no reason NOT to publicly state the rules -- other than to torment and confuse the Gazans..

That is because it is not about security, it is about collective punishment. Generally all exports are banned. How can exports be a security threat?

Banned items include books, paper, pencils, toys, crayons, different foods, and other ridiculous things that have nothing to do with security.

Even chocolate is banned. Ali Abunimah joked about never seeing a chocolate tipped rocket.

LinKs? FACTS? Spoiler alert. I found none.. You wont either.

According to Amnesty International, the Economist, Haaretz and UN reports, prior to June 2010, the following were banned or restricted:

Food. According to a UN report, importation of lentils, pasta, tomato paste and juice has been restricted.[15] Pasta has since been allowed. Sugar has always been allowed.[14] Soda, juice, jam, spices, shaving cream, potato chips, cookies and candy are now permitted.[16] Fruit, milk products in small packages and frozen food products are also allowed.[14] Dry food,[17] ginger and chocolate were at one point barred.[18]

Household items. A4 paper,[18] crayons, stationery, soccer balls, and musical instruments have been, at times, banned for import.[17] AFP includes toilet paper as a banned good,[4] though the BBC lists it as permitted.[3] According to the Haaretz the following items were banned in 2009: books, candles, crayons, clothing, cups, cutlery, crockery, electric appliances such as refrigerators and washing machines, glasses, light bulbs, matches, musical instruments, needles, sheets, blankets, shoes, mattresses, spare machine and car parts, and thread.[14]

Agriculture and fishing. According to Gisha, fishing ropes and rods, ginger and chocolate, hatcheries and spare parts for hatcheries, were at one point barred.[18]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_imports=​

Things jump around so there are variation from one time or source to the next.

All covered by an International treaty as banned dual use goods. So just what is your point about Israel sticking to International law again.

 

[Phoenall]

From 2007 till 2010 many exports were blocked because of hamas control of gaza. Hamas had kicked out fatah from gaza and the agreement for exports was not with hamas but the PA.

Hamas was and in some cases still is a terrorist organization. They don't want formal negotiations with Israel. Any attempts as negotiations have been through third parties.
Hamas prefers to make 'demands' and fire on Israel rather than work out any agreement. Even after ceasefires, periods of quiet, hamas does not last long before they shatter the calm and attract Israeli retaliation.

From 2007 till 2010 many exports were blocked because of hamas control of gaza. Hamas had kicked out fatah from gaza and the agreement for exports was not with hamas but the PA.​

Almost correct. It was an agreement with the PA. Not Fatah. Not Hamas. The PA was still there after the losers, Fatah, got the boot.

The PA hasnt done the job of governing or representing the Palis SINCE 2007. If its not functioning, its "not still there".. Just like an election that leads to no more elections,,,,,,, was really NOT an election.

That depends on how you look at it. In June of 2007 Abbas left the government and set up an illegal "emergency government" in the West Bank. The liars call this the PA. The part of the legal PA that was in Gaza continued to be there.

That is such a large pile of horse shit I dont know how to start. NEITHER half of the PA has been functioning as an elected representative body since 2007. No meetings, no elections, no diplomacy, no legislation passed by representative vote. What part of NO FUNCTIONING NATIONAL representation dontcha understand?

You are just saying that because you do not know what happened.

And you don't want to know what happened. You will only believe what Israel tells you.

While you will only believe islamomorn propaganda and ignore the truth

 

[Phoenall]

The PA hasnt done the job of governing or representing the Palis SINCE 2007. If its not functioning, its "not still there".. Just like an election that leads to no more elections,,,,,,, was really NOT an election.

That depends on how you look at it. In June of 2007 Abbas left the government and set up an illegal "emergency government" in the West Bank. The liars call this the PA. The part of the legal PA that was in Gaza continued to be there.

That is such a large pile of horse shit I dont know how to start. NEITHER half of the PA has been functioning as an elected representative body since 2007. No meetings, no elections, no diplomacy, no legislation passed by representative vote. What part of NO FUNCTIONING NATIONAL representation dontcha understand?

There were not many elections in Nazi occupied territories.

I see no parallel there. Israel didnt cause the breakdown of Pali national democracy.
But yet of course its their fault that Arabs cant seem to get along under systems of govt that arent
Theocracies or dictators or military rule. The Palis screwed that up...

Actually it was the US that trashed their whole political system in 2007 and has not allowed it to get back together again.

How so, are they holding a gun to the heads of every Palestinian stopping them from electing new leaders and then evicting the current ones by force of arms. The Palestinian people could elect new leaders at any time if they so wished, but they don't giving the current leaders the go ahead to do as they want.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

If only America was as powerful as it would actually have to be to have managed all it is accused of.

That is such a large pile of horse shit I dont know how to start. NEITHER half of the PA has been functioning as an elected representative body since 2007. No meetings, no elections, no diplomacy, no legislation passed by representative vote. What part of NO FUNCTIONING NATIONAL representation dontcha understand?

There were not many elections in Nazi occupied territories.

I see no parallel there. Israel didnt cause the breakdown of Pali national democracy.
But yet of course its their fault that Arabs cant seem to get along under systems of govt that arent
Theocracies or dictators or military rule. The Palis screwed that up...

Actually it was the US that trashed their whole political system in 2007 and has not allowed it to get back together again.

(COMMENT)

This is not America's fault. HAMAS is a "designated terrorist organization" --- and as such, under Security Council Resolution 1373, America cannot legally "providing any form of support, active or passive, to entities or persons involved in terrorist acts;" under international law and under domestic federal law.

This is really the case of the Arab Palestinians electing a terrorist organization to a position of power and leadership --- yet, unable to take responsibility for their actions and the consequences that followed.

The democratic process in the State of Palestine (alla 1988), is in the hands of the Palestinians; and has always been in the hands of Palestinians. No one ever took that away from the Palestinians; not Israel and not America.

Most Respectfully,
R

Bizarre argument. America designated Hamas as a terrorist organisation because of intense Zionist pressure, both foreign and domestic, which it now uses as an excuse not provide "any form of support". Interesting that SCR1373 fails to define the "terrorism" it rails against.

How about a link from a non partisan source saying that this happened, it must include the words Zionist pressure both foreign and domestic ?