The Humanitarian Gaza Flotillas Saga

[Billo_Really]

Didya WATCH it? Because at the end, the protesters said IN ENGLISH -- "We are International" presumably meaning they were in Intl waters and OUT of the six mile limit. Make up your mind Billo. Territorial or Intl..

If Gaza had a govt -- there would be a CLAIM to territorial waters.

Okay, lets say you're right and I was wrong and they were in international waters. Israel has no right stopping any vessel in international waters. To do so, is called piracy.

 

[Billo_Really]

I still had problems finding out the CURRENT rules for the blockade.. Why isn't there a precise statement of what can go in and out of Gaza? THAT -- bugs me... GREATLY..

Because it leaves room for Hamas and propaganists to claim that any old thing they confiscate can be blamed on the "illegal" Israeli blockade. And there's no reason NOT to publicly state the rules -- other than to torment and confuse the Gazans..

The blockade collectively punishes all 1.5 million Gazans.

That is a war crime.

 

[P F Tinmore]

OK, but what does the denial of the Palestinians to export bell peppers, furniture, or clothing have to do with Israel's security. Particularly when Israel is only defending its occupation and colonization.

Put this in context.

1. The subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the Charter of the United Nations and is an impediment to the promotion of world peace and co-operation.

2. All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.

3. Inadequacy of political, economic, social or educational preparedness should never serve as a pretext for delaying independence.

4. All armed action or repressive measures of all kinds directed against dependent peoples shall cease in order to enable them to exercise peacefully and freely their right to complete independence, and the integrity of their national territory shall be respected.

5. Immediate steps shall be taken, in Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories or all other territories which have not yet attained independence, to transfer all powers to the peoples of those territories, without any conditions or reservations, in accordance with their freely expressed will and desire, without any distinction as to race, creed or colour, in order to enable them to enjoy complete independence and freedom.

6. Any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and the territorial integrity of a country is incompatible with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.

7. All States shall observe faithfully and strictly the provisions of the Charter of the United Nations, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the present Declaration on the basis of equality, non-interference in the internal affairs of all States, and respect for the sovereign rights of all peoples and their territorial integrity.

The United Nations and Decolonization - Declaration​

Don't need the UN declaration PF.. I need the proof that bell peppers cannot leave Gaza by sea..

Bell peppers exported from Gaza for first time in years
Been exporting them for years, by land.
Boats are limited to six miles, for fishing.

No deep port in gaza for large ships. Israel was in the process if building one before the hand over of gaza to the palestinians. They were dredging to accommodate ships. The original plan was more for cruise ships but a deep port could have accommodated cargo as well.

Your links are years old and I don't see any facts on the ground showing that these are true.

One link is from 2012, and the other is from M'Aan.. At the least they show that there has been times of opening up the embargo.. You had brought up the "bell peppers".. Produce a link showing that bell peppers are banned for export. Or specific instances where they were not allowed to cross. By YOUR rules -- make sure it's recent.


MAYBE -- there was just never SURPLUS for most years to export a particular crop like bell peppers or there was too much fighting to produce a representative yield.

From 2007 till 2010 many exports were blocked because of hamas control of gaza. Hamas had kicked out fatah from gaza and the agreement for exports was not with hamas but the PA.

Hamas was and in some cases still is a terrorist organization. They don't want formal negotiations with Israel. Any attempts as negotiations have been through third parties.
Hamas prefers to make 'demands' and fire on Israel rather than work out any agreement. Even after ceasefires, periods of quiet, hamas does not last long before they shatter the calm and attract Israeli retaliation.

From 2007 till 2010 many exports were blocked because of hamas control of gaza. Hamas had kicked out fatah from gaza and the agreement for exports was not with hamas but the PA.​

Almost correct. It was an agreement with the PA. Not Fatah. Not Hamas. The PA was still there after the losers, Fatah, got the boot.

 

[aris2chat]

Don't need the UN declaration PF.. I need the proof that bell peppers cannot leave Gaza by sea..

Bell peppers exported from Gaza for first time in years
Been exporting them for years, by land.
Boats are limited to six miles, for fishing.

No deep port in gaza for large ships. Israel was in the process if building one before the hand over of gaza to the palestinians. They were dredging to accommodate ships. The original plan was more for cruise ships but a deep port could have accommodated cargo as well.

Your links are years old and I don't see any facts on the ground showing that these are true.

One link is from 2012, and the other is from M'Aan.. At the least they show that there has been times of opening up the embargo.. You had brought up the "bell peppers".. Produce a link showing that bell peppers are banned for export. Or specific instances where they were not allowed to cross. By YOUR rules -- make sure it's recent.


MAYBE -- there was just never SURPLUS for most years to export a particular crop like bell peppers or there was too much fighting to produce a representative yield.

From 2007 till 2010 many exports were blocked because of hamas control of gaza. Hamas had kicked out fatah from gaza and the agreement for exports was not with hamas but the PA.

Hamas was and in some cases still is a terrorist organization. They don't want formal negotiations with Israel. Any attempts as negotiations have been through third parties.
Hamas prefers to make 'demands' and fire on Israel rather than work out any agreement. Even after ceasefires, periods of quiet, hamas does not last long before they shatter the calm and attract Israeli retaliation.

I still had problems finding out the CURRENT rules for the blockade.. Why isn't there a precise statement of what can go in and out of Gaza? THAT -- bugs me... GREATLY..

Because it leaves room for Hamas and propaganists to claim that any old thing they confiscate can be blamed on the "illegal" Israeli blockade. And there's no reason NOT to publicly state the rules -- other than to torment and confuse the Gazans..

Gaza imports - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[P F Tinmore]

Don't need the UN declaration PF.. I need the proof that bell peppers cannot leave Gaza by sea..

Bell peppers exported from Gaza for first time in years
Been exporting them for years, by land.
Boats are limited to six miles, for fishing.

No deep port in gaza for large ships. Israel was in the process if building one before the hand over of gaza to the palestinians. They were dredging to accommodate ships. The original plan was more for cruise ships but a deep port could have accommodated cargo as well.

Your links are years old and I don't see any facts on the ground showing that these are true.

One link is from 2012, and the other is from M'Aan.. At the least they show that there has been times of opening up the embargo.. You had brought up the "bell peppers".. Produce a link showing that bell peppers are banned for export. Or specific instances where they were not allowed to cross. By YOUR rules -- make sure it's recent.


MAYBE -- there was just never SURPLUS for most years to export a particular crop like bell peppers or there was too much fighting to produce a representative yield.

From 2007 till 2010 many exports were blocked because of hamas control of gaza. Hamas had kicked out fatah from gaza and the agreement for exports was not with hamas but the PA.

Hamas was and in some cases still is a terrorist organization. They don't want formal negotiations with Israel. Any attempts as negotiations have been through third parties.
Hamas prefers to make 'demands' and fire on Israel rather than work out any agreement. Even after ceasefires, periods of quiet, hamas does not last long before they shatter the calm and attract Israeli retaliation.

I still had problems finding out the CURRENT rules for the blockade.. Why isn't there a precise statement of what can go in and out of Gaza? THAT -- bugs me... GREATLY..

Because it leaves room for Hamas and propaganists to claim that any old thing they confiscate can be blamed on the "illegal" Israeli blockade. And there's no reason NOT to publicly state the rules -- other than to torment and confuse the Gazans..

That is because it is not about security, it is about collective punishment. Generally all exports are banned. How can exports be a security threat?

Banned items include books, paper, pencils, toys, crayons, different foods, and other ridiculous things that have nothing to do with security.

Even chocolate is banned. Ali Abunimah joked about never seeing a chocolate tipped rocket.

 

[flacaltenn]

Your word is not proof, so produce the evidence that it was not
A) outside of the restricted zone
or
B) smuggling

I did. I produced the video that said they were in Gazan territorial waters.

The burden of proof is now on you to produce a video that says they weren't.

Didya WATCH it? Because at the end, the protesters said IN ENGLISH -- "We are International" presumably meaning they were in Intl waters and OUT of the six mile limit. Make up your mind Billo. Territorial or Intl..

If Gaza had a govt -- there would be a CLAIM to territorial waters.

"We are International" means that they are not Palestinian. Somebody like the ISM.

They notify the Israelis in hopes that they will be less trigger happy with foreign nationals.

BTW, Palestinians are allowed to fish to 20 miles by treaty.

What treaty and who signed it? Doesnt matter if there is a military embargo of weapons that needs to enforced.

 

[flacaltenn]

Bell peppers exported from Gaza for first time in years
Been exporting them for years, by land.
Boats are limited to six miles, for fishing.

No deep port in gaza for large ships. Israel was in the process if building one before the hand over of gaza to the palestinians. They were dredging to accommodate ships. The original plan was more for cruise ships but a deep port could have accommodated cargo as well.

Your links are years old and I don't see any facts on the ground showing that these are true.

One link is from 2012, and the other is from M'Aan.. At the least they show that there has been times of opening up the embargo.. You had brought up the "bell peppers".. Produce a link showing that bell peppers are banned for export. Or specific instances where they were not allowed to cross. By YOUR rules -- make sure it's recent.


MAYBE -- there was just never SURPLUS for most years to export a particular crop like bell peppers or there was too much fighting to produce a representative yield.

From 2007 till 2010 many exports were blocked because of hamas control of gaza. Hamas had kicked out fatah from gaza and the agreement for exports was not with hamas but the PA.

Hamas was and in some cases still is a terrorist organization. They don't want formal negotiations with Israel. Any attempts as negotiations have been through third parties.
Hamas prefers to make 'demands' and fire on Israel rather than work out any agreement. Even after ceasefires, periods of quiet, hamas does not last long before they shatter the calm and attract Israeli retaliation.

I still had problems finding out the CURRENT rules for the blockade.. Why isn't there a precise statement of what can go in and out of Gaza? THAT -- bugs me... GREATLY..

Because it leaves room for Hamas and propaganists to claim that any old thing they confiscate can be blamed on the "illegal" Israeli blockade. And there's no reason NOT to publicly state the rules -- other than to torment and confuse the Gazans..

That is because it is not about security, it is about collective punishment. Generally all exports are banned. How can exports be a security threat?

Banned items include books, paper, pencils, toys, crayons, different foods, and other ridiculous things that have nothing to do with security.

Even chocolate is banned. Ali Abunimah joked about never seeing a chocolate tipped rocket.

LinKs? FACTS? Spoiler alert. I found none.. You wont either.

 

[flacaltenn]

Bell peppers exported from Gaza for first time in years
Been exporting them for years, by land.
Boats are limited to six miles, for fishing.

No deep port in gaza for large ships. Israel was in the process if building one before the hand over of gaza to the palestinians. They were dredging to accommodate ships. The original plan was more for cruise ships but a deep port could have accommodated cargo as well.

Your links are years old and I don't see any facts on the ground showing that these are true.

One link is from 2012, and the other is from M'Aan.. At the least they show that there has been times of opening up the embargo.. You had brought up the "bell peppers".. Produce a link showing that bell peppers are banned for export. Or specific instances where they were not allowed to cross. By YOUR rules -- make sure it's recent.


MAYBE -- there was just never SURPLUS for most years to export a particular crop like bell peppers or there was too much fighting to produce a representative yield.

From 2007 till 2010 many exports were blocked because of hamas control of gaza. Hamas had kicked out fatah from gaza and the agreement for exports was not with hamas but the PA.

Hamas was and in some cases still is a terrorist organization. They don't want formal negotiations with Israel. Any attempts as negotiations have been through third parties.
Hamas prefers to make 'demands' and fire on Israel rather than work out any agreement. Even after ceasefires, periods of quiet, hamas does not last long before they shatter the calm and attract Israeli retaliation.

I still had problems finding out the CURRENT rules for the blockade.. Why isn't there a precise statement of what can go in and out of Gaza? THAT -- bugs me... GREATLY..

Because it leaves room for Hamas and propaganists to claim that any old thing they confiscate can be blamed on the "illegal" Israeli blockade. And there's no reason NOT to publicly state the rules -- other than to torment and confuse the Gazans..

Gaza imports - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Thanks.. that helps. If that list of post 2010 rules is actually correct, than PF needs to read it and come up to date. All the stuff like crayons, and notebooks is clearly labeled as BEFORE 2010. So as usual in this Wonderland forum ---- folks are fighting about the past and not the present or the future.

 

[flacaltenn]

Don't need the UN declaration PF.. I need the proof that bell peppers cannot leave Gaza by sea..

Bell peppers exported from Gaza for first time in years
Been exporting them for years, by land.
Boats are limited to six miles, for fishing.

No deep port in gaza for large ships. Israel was in the process if building one before the hand over of gaza to the palestinians. They were dredging to accommodate ships. The original plan was more for cruise ships but a deep port could have accommodated cargo as well.

Your links are years old and I don't see any facts on the ground showing that these are true.

One link is from 2012, and the other is from M'Aan.. At the least they show that there has been times of opening up the embargo.. You had brought up the "bell peppers".. Produce a link showing that bell peppers are banned for export. Or specific instances where they were not allowed to cross. By YOUR rules -- make sure it's recent.


MAYBE -- there was just never SURPLUS for most years to export a particular crop like bell peppers or there was too much fighting to produce a representative yield.

From 2007 till 2010 many exports were blocked because of hamas control of gaza. Hamas had kicked out fatah from gaza and the agreement for exports was not with hamas but the PA.

Hamas was and in some cases still is a terrorist organization. They don't want formal negotiations with Israel. Any attempts as negotiations have been through third parties.
Hamas prefers to make 'demands' and fire on Israel rather than work out any agreement. Even after ceasefires, periods of quiet, hamas does not last long before they shatter the calm and attract Israeli retaliation.

From 2007 till 2010 many exports were blocked because of hamas control of gaza. Hamas had kicked out fatah from gaza and the agreement for exports was not with hamas but the PA.​

Almost correct. It was an agreement with the PA. Not Fatah. Not Hamas. The PA was still there after the losers, Fatah, got the boot.

The PA hasnt done the job of governing or representing the Palis SINCE 2007. If its not functioning, its "not still there".. Just like an election that leads to no more elections,,,,,,, was really NOT an election.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Your word is not proof, so produce the evidence that it was not
A) outside of the restricted zone
or
B) smuggling

I did. I produced the video that said they were in Gazan territorial waters.

The burden of proof is now on you to produce a video that says they weren't.

Didya WATCH it? Because at the end, the protesters said IN ENGLISH -- "We are International" presumably meaning they were in Intl waters and OUT of the six mile limit. Make up your mind Billo. Territorial or Intl..

If Gaza had a govt -- there would be a CLAIM to territorial waters.

"We are International" means that they are not Palestinian. Somebody like the ISM.

They notify the Israelis in hopes that they will be less trigger happy with foreign nationals.

BTW, Palestinians are allowed to fish to 20 miles by treaty.

What treaty and who signed it? Doesnt matter if there is a military embargo of weapons that needs to enforced.

Under the Oslo Agreements, the fishing range was 20 nautical miles (approximately 37 km) Lift the restrictions on the Gaza fishing range B Tselem

It is amazing how little Israel supporters know. Most of what I post nobody has ever heard of. Then I have to go find a link to something I read 5 years ago.

It is no surprise though. One thing consistent about Israel supporters is that they refuse to learn anything. It shows in their posts.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Bell peppers exported from Gaza for first time in years
Been exporting them for years, by land.
Boats are limited to six miles, for fishing.

No deep port in gaza for large ships. Israel was in the process if building one before the hand over of gaza to the palestinians. They were dredging to accommodate ships. The original plan was more for cruise ships but a deep port could have accommodated cargo as well.

Your links are years old and I don't see any facts on the ground showing that these are true.

One link is from 2012, and the other is from M'Aan.. At the least they show that there has been times of opening up the embargo.. You had brought up the "bell peppers".. Produce a link showing that bell peppers are banned for export. Or specific instances where they were not allowed to cross. By YOUR rules -- make sure it's recent.


MAYBE -- there was just never SURPLUS for most years to export a particular crop like bell peppers or there was too much fighting to produce a representative yield.

From 2007 till 2010 many exports were blocked because of hamas control of gaza. Hamas had kicked out fatah from gaza and the agreement for exports was not with hamas but the PA.

Hamas was and in some cases still is a terrorist organization. They don't want formal negotiations with Israel. Any attempts as negotiations have been through third parties.
Hamas prefers to make 'demands' and fire on Israel rather than work out any agreement. Even after ceasefires, periods of quiet, hamas does not last long before they shatter the calm and attract Israeli retaliation.

From 2007 till 2010 many exports were blocked because of hamas control of gaza. Hamas had kicked out fatah from gaza and the agreement for exports was not with hamas but the PA.​

Almost correct. It was an agreement with the PA. Not Fatah. Not Hamas. The PA was still there after the losers, Fatah, got the boot.

The PA hasnt done the job of governing or representing the Palis SINCE 2007. If its not functioning, its "not still there".. Just like an election that leads to no more elections,,,,,,, was really NOT an election.

That depends on how you look at it. In June of 2007 Abbas left the government and set up an illegal "emergency government" in the West Bank. The liars call this the PA. The part of the legal PA that was in Gaza continued to be there.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Your links are years old and I don't see any facts on the ground showing that these are true.

One link is from 2012, and the other is from M'Aan.. At the least they show that there has been times of opening up the embargo.. You had brought up the "bell peppers".. Produce a link showing that bell peppers are banned for export. Or specific instances where they were not allowed to cross. By YOUR rules -- make sure it's recent.

MAYBE -- there was just never SURPLUS for most years to export a particular crop like bell peppers or there was too much fighting to produce a representative yield.

From 2007 till 2010 many exports were blocked because of hamas control of gaza. Hamas had kicked out fatah from gaza and the agreement for exports was not with hamas but the PA.

Hamas was and in some cases still is a terrorist organization. They don't want formal negotiations with Israel. Any attempts as negotiations have been through third parties.
Hamas prefers to make 'demands' and fire on Israel rather than work out any agreement. Even after ceasefires, periods of quiet, hamas does not last long before they shatter the calm and attract Israeli retaliation.

I still had problems finding out the CURRENT rules for the blockade.. Why isn't there a precise statement of what can go in and out of Gaza? THAT -- bugs me... GREATLY..

Because it leaves room for Hamas and propaganists to claim that any old thing they confiscate can be blamed on the "illegal" Israeli blockade. And there's no reason NOT to publicly state the rules -- other than to torment and confuse the Gazans..

That is because it is not about security, it is about collective punishment. Generally all exports are banned. How can exports be a security threat?

Banned items include books, paper, pencils, toys, crayons, different foods, and other ridiculous things that have nothing to do with security.

Even chocolate is banned. Ali Abunimah joked about never seeing a chocolate tipped rocket.

LinKs? FACTS? Spoiler alert. I found none.. You wont either.

According to Amnesty International, the Economist, Haaretz and UN reports, prior to June 2010, the following were banned or restricted:

Food. According to a UN report, importation of lentils, pasta, tomato paste and juice has been restricted.[15] Pasta has since been allowed. Sugar has always been allowed.[14] Soda, juice, jam, spices, shaving cream, potato chips, cookies and candy are now permitted.[16] Fruit, milk products in small packages and frozen food products are also allowed.[14] Dry food,[17] ginger and chocolate were at one point barred.[18]

Household items. A4 paper,[18] crayons, stationery, soccer balls, and musical instruments have been, at times, banned for import.[17] AFP includes toilet paper as a banned good,[4] though the BBC lists it as permitted.[3] According to the Haaretz the following items were banned in 2009: books, candles, crayons, clothing, cups, cutlery, crockery, electric appliances such as refrigerators and washing machines, glasses, light bulbs, matches, musical instruments, needles, sheets, blankets, shoes, mattresses, spare machine and car parts, and thread.[14]

Agriculture and fishing. According to Gisha, fishing ropes and rods, ginger and chocolate, hatcheries and spare parts for hatcheries, were at one point barred.[18]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_imports=​

Things jump around so there are variation from one time or source to the next.

 

[flacaltenn]

Your links are years old and I don't see any facts on the ground showing that these are true.

One link is from 2012, and the other is from M'Aan.. At the least they show that there has been times of opening up the embargo.. You had brought up the "bell peppers".. Produce a link showing that bell peppers are banned for export. Or specific instances where they were not allowed to cross. By YOUR rules -- make sure it's recent.


MAYBE -- there was just never SURPLUS for most years to export a particular crop like bell peppers or there was too much fighting to produce a representative yield.

From 2007 till 2010 many exports were blocked because of hamas control of gaza. Hamas had kicked out fatah from gaza and the agreement for exports was not with hamas but the PA.

Hamas was and in some cases still is a terrorist organization. They don't want formal negotiations with Israel. Any attempts as negotiations have been through third parties.
Hamas prefers to make 'demands' and fire on Israel rather than work out any agreement. Even after ceasefires, periods of quiet, hamas does not last long before they shatter the calm and attract Israeli retaliation.

From 2007 till 2010 many exports were blocked because of hamas control of gaza. Hamas had kicked out fatah from gaza and the agreement for exports was not with hamas but the PA.​

Almost correct. It was an agreement with the PA. Not Fatah. Not Hamas. The PA was still there after the losers, Fatah, got the boot.

The PA hasnt done the job of governing or representing the Palis SINCE 2007. If its not functioning, its "not still there".. Just like an election that leads to no more elections,,,,,,, was really NOT an election.

That depends on how you look at it. In June of 2007 Abbas left the government and set up an illegal "emergency government" in the West Bank. The liars call this the PA. The part of the legal PA that was in Gaza continued to be there.

That is such a large pile of horse shit I dont know how to start. NEITHER half of the PA has been functioning as an elected representative body since 2007. No meetings, no elections, no diplomacy, no legislation passed by representative vote. What part of NO FUNCTIONING NATIONAL representation dontcha understand?

 

[flacaltenn]

One link is from 2012, and the other is from M'Aan.. At the least they show that there has been times of opening up the embargo.. You had brought up the "bell peppers".. Produce a link showing that bell peppers are banned for export. Or specific instances where they were not allowed to cross. By YOUR rules -- make sure it's recent.

MAYBE -- there was just never SURPLUS for most years to export a particular crop like bell peppers or there was too much fighting to produce a representative yield.

From 2007 till 2010 many exports were blocked because of hamas control of gaza. Hamas had kicked out fatah from gaza and the agreement for exports was not with hamas but the PA.

Hamas was and in some cases still is a terrorist organization. They don't want formal negotiations with Israel. Any attempts as negotiations have been through third parties.
Hamas prefers to make 'demands' and fire on Israel rather than work out any agreement. Even after ceasefires, periods of quiet, hamas does not last long before they shatter the calm and attract Israeli retaliation.

I still had problems finding out the CURRENT rules for the blockade.. Why isn't there a precise statement of what can go in and out of Gaza? THAT -- bugs me... GREATLY..

Because it leaves room for Hamas and propaganists to claim that any old thing they confiscate can be blamed on the "illegal" Israeli blockade. And there's no reason NOT to publicly state the rules -- other than to torment and confuse the Gazans..

That is because it is not about security, it is about collective punishment. Generally all exports are banned. How can exports be a security threat?

Banned items include books, paper, pencils, toys, crayons, different foods, and other ridiculous things that have nothing to do with security.

Even chocolate is banned. Ali Abunimah joked about never seeing a chocolate tipped rocket.

LinKs? FACTS? Spoiler alert. I found none.. You wont either.

According to Amnesty International, the Economist, Haaretz and UN reports, prior to June 2010, the following were banned or restricted:

Food. According to a UN report, importation of lentils, pasta, tomato paste and juice has been restricted.[15] Pasta has since been allowed. Sugar has always been allowed.[14] Soda, juice, jam, spices, shaving cream, potato chips, cookies and candy are now permitted.[16] Fruit, milk products in small packages and frozen food products are also allowed.[14] Dry food,[17] ginger and chocolate were at one point barred.[18]

Household items. A4 paper,[18] crayons, stationery, soccer balls, and musical instruments have been, at times, banned for import.[17] AFP includes toilet paper as a banned good,[4] though the BBC lists it as permitted.[3] According to the Haaretz the following items were banned in 2009: books, candles, crayons, clothing, cups, cutlery, crockery, electric appliances such as refrigerators and washing machines, glasses, light bulbs, matches, musical instruments, needles, sheets, blankets, shoes, mattresses, spare machine and car parts, and thread.[14]

Agriculture and fishing. According to Gisha, fishing ropes and rods, ginger and chocolate, hatcheries and spare parts for hatcheries, were at one point barred.[18]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_imports=​

Things jump around so there are variation from one time or source to the next.

Dont care what was banned between 2006 and 2010. I care about the rules today.. In one post you claim that links are not new enough.,.. in the next, youre whining about old news.....

 

[P F Tinmore]

One link is from 2012, and the other is from M'Aan.. At the least they show that there has been times of opening up the embargo.. You had brought up the "bell peppers".. Produce a link showing that bell peppers are banned for export. Or specific instances where they were not allowed to cross. By YOUR rules -- make sure it's recent.


MAYBE -- there was just never SURPLUS for most years to export a particular crop like bell peppers or there was too much fighting to produce a representative yield.

From 2007 till 2010 many exports were blocked because of hamas control of gaza. Hamas had kicked out fatah from gaza and the agreement for exports was not with hamas but the PA.

Hamas was and in some cases still is a terrorist organization. They don't want formal negotiations with Israel. Any attempts as negotiations have been through third parties.
Hamas prefers to make 'demands' and fire on Israel rather than work out any agreement. Even after ceasefires, periods of quiet, hamas does not last long before they shatter the calm and attract Israeli retaliation.

From 2007 till 2010 many exports were blocked because of hamas control of gaza. Hamas had kicked out fatah from gaza and the agreement for exports was not with hamas but the PA.​

Almost correct. It was an agreement with the PA. Not Fatah. Not Hamas. The PA was still there after the losers, Fatah, got the boot.

The PA hasnt done the job of governing or representing the Palis SINCE 2007. If its not functioning, its "not still there".. Just like an election that leads to no more elections,,,,,,, was really NOT an election.

That depends on how you look at it. In June of 2007 Abbas left the government and set up an illegal "emergency government" in the West Bank. The liars call this the PA. The part of the legal PA that was in Gaza continued to be there.

That is such a large pile of horse shit I dont know how to start. NEITHER half of the PA has been functioning as an elected representative body since 2007. No meetings, no elections, no diplomacy, no legislation passed by representative vote. What part of NO FUNCTIONING NATIONAL representation dontcha understand?

You are just saying that because you do not know what happened.

And you don't want to know what happened. You will only believe what Israel tells you.

 

[montelatici]

One link is from 2012, and the other is from M'Aan.. At the least they show that there has been times of opening up the embargo.. You had brought up the "bell peppers".. Produce a link showing that bell peppers are banned for export. Or specific instances where they were not allowed to cross. By YOUR rules -- make sure it's recent.


MAYBE -- there was just never SURPLUS for most years to export a particular crop like bell peppers or there was too much fighting to produce a representative yield.

From 2007 till 2010 many exports were blocked because of hamas control of gaza. Hamas had kicked out fatah from gaza and the agreement for exports was not with hamas but the PA.

Hamas was and in some cases still is a terrorist organization. They don't want formal negotiations with Israel. Any attempts as negotiations have been through third parties.
Hamas prefers to make 'demands' and fire on Israel rather than work out any agreement. Even after ceasefires, periods of quiet, hamas does not last long before they shatter the calm and attract Israeli retaliation.

From 2007 till 2010 many exports were blocked because of hamas control of gaza. Hamas had kicked out fatah from gaza and the agreement for exports was not with hamas but the PA.​

Almost correct. It was an agreement with the PA. Not Fatah. Not Hamas. The PA was still there after the losers, Fatah, got the boot.

The PA hasnt done the job of governing or representing the Palis SINCE 2007. If its not functioning, its "not still there".. Just like an election that leads to no more elections,,,,,,, was really NOT an election.

That depends on how you look at it. In June of 2007 Abbas left the government and set up an illegal "emergency government" in the West Bank. The liars call this the PA. The part of the legal PA that was in Gaza continued to be there.

That is such a large pile of horse shit I dont know how to start. NEITHER half of the PA has been functioning as an elected representative body since 2007. No meetings, no elections, no diplomacy, no legislation passed by representative vote. What part of NO FUNCTIONING NATIONAL representation dontcha understand?

There were not many elections in Nazi occupied territories.

 

[flacaltenn]

From 2007 till 2010 many exports were blocked because of hamas control of gaza. Hamas had kicked out fatah from gaza and the agreement for exports was not with hamas but the PA.

Hamas was and in some cases still is a terrorist organization. They don't want formal negotiations with Israel. Any attempts as negotiations have been through third parties.
Hamas prefers to make 'demands' and fire on Israel rather than work out any agreement. Even after ceasefires, periods of quiet, hamas does not last long before they shatter the calm and attract Israeli retaliation.

From 2007 till 2010 many exports were blocked because of hamas control of gaza. Hamas had kicked out fatah from gaza and the agreement for exports was not with hamas but the PA.​

Almost correct. It was an agreement with the PA. Not Fatah. Not Hamas. The PA was still there after the losers, Fatah, got the boot.

The PA hasnt done the job of governing or representing the Palis SINCE 2007. If its not functioning, its "not still there".. Just like an election that leads to no more elections,,,,,,, was really NOT an election.

That depends on how you look at it. In June of 2007 Abbas left the government and set up an illegal "emergency government" in the West Bank. The liars call this the PA. The part of the legal PA that was in Gaza continued to be there.

That is such a large pile of horse shit I dont know how to start. NEITHER half of the PA has been functioning as an elected representative body since 2007. No meetings, no elections, no diplomacy, no legislation passed by representative vote. What part of NO FUNCTIONING NATIONAL representation dontcha understand?

There were not many elections in Nazi occupied territories.

I see no parallel there. Israel didnt cause the breakdown of Pali national democracy.
But yet of course its their fault that Arabs cant seem to get along under systems of govt that arent
Theocracies or dictators or military rule. The Palis screwed that up...

 

[flacaltenn]

The Palis screwed it up with a little pressure from the US to hold "elections" prematurely.

 

[P F Tinmore]

From 2007 till 2010 many exports were blocked because of hamas control of gaza. Hamas had kicked out fatah from gaza and the agreement for exports was not with hamas but the PA.​

Almost correct. It was an agreement with the PA. Not Fatah. Not Hamas. The PA was still there after the losers, Fatah, got the boot.

The PA hasnt done the job of governing or representing the Palis SINCE 2007. If its not functioning, its "not still there".. Just like an election that leads to no more elections,,,,,,, was really NOT an election.

That depends on how you look at it. In June of 2007 Abbas left the government and set up an illegal "emergency government" in the West Bank. The liars call this the PA. The part of the legal PA that was in Gaza continued to be there.

That is such a large pile of horse shit I dont know how to start. NEITHER half of the PA has been functioning as an elected representative body since 2007. No meetings, no elections, no diplomacy, no legislation passed by representative vote. What part of NO FUNCTIONING NATIONAL representation dontcha understand?

There were not many elections in Nazi occupied territories.

I see no parallel there. Israel didnt cause the breakdown of Pali national democracy.
But yet of course its their fault that Arabs cant seem to get along under systems of govt that arent
Theocracies or dictators or military rule. The Palis screwed that up...

Actually it was the US that trashed their whole political system in 2007 and has not allowed it to get back together again.

 

[aris2chat]

The Palis screwed it up with a little pressure from the US to hold "elections" prematurely.

Elections were held under Arafat. He rigged the election by letting Khalil, a little known 72 yr old grandmother, be his only opposition.........and she still got 12% of the vote.
Middle east is not known for truly fair elections. Most are won by 90+%, which to westerners is seen as near impossible. The process is still somewhat alien to the people. Elections are not choices but affirmation. There is no surprise as to who will win. More often than not candidates are forced off the ballot or are eliminated, permanently.
The fact that hamas was elected to parliament at all was a fluke. Fatah won the most votes, but the vote was split between too many candidates and hamas slid in by default. They did not have popular support even in gaza. After the elections they forced their way into control of gaza and killed or threw out fatah members of government.

Real democracy for the arabs is still quite a way off. They are still predominantly a tribal people.