The Homosexual Dilemma

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Says you. Muslims think...

Yet, there is absolutely NO EVIDENCE of that whatsoever.

Muslims DO however practice serial incest... which has gone on for no well over 700 years. As a result Muslims have largely rinsed from their culture, the necessity of genetic diversity... resulting in major cognitive limitations.

Sadly, the rest of the Ideological Left does not have this excuse... .

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

So you believe. And yet for the majority of the history of your faith {The Reader should remember here, that the Faith is Objective} and for at least a dozen centuries after your 'new message', Christians {The Reader should now note that the contributor has now shifted the appeal from the objectivity of the Faith, to the subjectivity intrinsic to the human being} still followed the OT when they wanted to.

The reader should remember that faith is utterly subjective, existing in the hearts of the believer.

Hey great... an emphatic assertion.

Now "Faith" is subjective.

As a Christian, I recognize that where I willfully engage in sexual intercourse, that I am responsible for the life conceived as a result of my actions. That God grants endows us with life and that I have the SAME RIGHTS as the life I conceived through my willful behavior.

As a result I CHOOSE to bear my responsibility to raise that child... deciding to NOT murder that human life because such is a MONUMENTAL INCONVENIENCE TO ME!

Now... let's define the terms:

Objective: >NOT< influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.

Subjective: based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.

Now... my Christian FAITH tells me that MY NEEDS ARE IRRELEVANT... that God endowed the child I conceived through my willful actions. My decision to NOT MURDER that child, which is perfectly LEGAL... is an action taken DESPITE SUCH BEING A MASSIVE INCONVENIENCE TO ME: PERSONALLY.

So, we find that when the terms are defined, where the actions common to faith are defined and compared to the defined terms that IN TRUTH, thus in REALITY: Faith rests in the tenets of ONE's RELIGION... The OBJECTIVE WILL OF GOD!

Where the individual acts in response to the OBJECTIVE TENETS OF HIS FAITH... he acts OBJECTIVELY... and where the individual acts in response to their own NEEDS; they act SUBJECTIVELY.

Left-think rejects objectivity... thus is it subjective.

Do you SEE how easy this stuff is folks?

 

[Skylar]

Now "Faith" is subjective.

Not just 'now'. Always. Its always been subjective. Your faith is defined by you, expressed by you, quantified by you, measured by you, verified by you, authenticated by you.

And no one else. There's nothing for us to see, taste, hear, quantify, measure, verify or authenticate. You might as well be telling us your favorite color for as much objective value as your faith has. No matter how you spin it, that's the epitome of subjectivity

Worse there are other people who have 'faith' as deeply as you do. And they explicitly contradict you. Who then is right? How would anyone know, as there's nothing to measure. You believe you are. They believe they are. But there's nothing objective to break the tie. Nor anything objective that mandates that either one of you are right.

As a Christian, I recognize that where I willfully engage in sexual intercourse, that I am responsible for the life conceived as a result of my actions. That God grants endows us with life and that I have the SAME RIGHTS as the life I conceived through my willful behavior.

And that's your belief. I may agree with you. I may disagree with you. It doesn't change the fact that your perspective is subjective, that your belief system is subjective, that your religion is utterly an infinitely malleable. You can take the same text and get wildly different meanings....because the meaning of your religion is whatever you want to be. A fact you can't account for your in your 'intrinsic' claims.

So you omit any mention of it from any reply and refuse to address the topic. But its not like your willful ignorance renders the flaw in your reasoning invisible to anyone else.

Keep running.

 

[Coyote]

Yet somehow in your twisted Leftist brain, American conservatives who are extremely tolerant of homosexuality but just don't agree with it are more of a danger than Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Egypt where homosexuals are hung in the streets.

Oh really?


This is where I feel duty bound to say - speak for yourself. Do not attempt to speak for me.

In fact, perversely the same Left that celebrates "gay rights" will also throw their support behind Islam and Muslims, reminding everyone ad nauseum that not all Muslims are terrorists every time a terrorist act occurs with the blessing of the Muslim community. All these "peaceful Muslims" think homosexuality is so wicked and socially harmful that they should be executed. Former Iranian president Ahmadinejad spoke to American college students and seeing their metrosexual qualities volunteered, "There are no homosexuals in Iran" to the oblivious idiots so proud to have such a progressive man speak to them. Your knee jerk affinity to Islam virtually ignores that they actually kill homosexuals every day while at the same time seeing mortal danger in Christians who remind you that God considers homosexuality to be a sinful lifestyle.

Not all Muslims are terrorists. Does that bother you? They are as varied and different as you Christians.
Muslims, Christians, anyone can hate homosexuality. People are free to think what they wish. It's when they act on it that there is a problem.
Not sure why you are even bringing Islam into this but let's straighten out a few things. The Abrahamic Faiths don't like homosexuals. At this point in time - Muslims are worse in that regard. But don't pretend that everythings fine and dandy with the Christian faith when we have American mega churches down in Africa trying to criminalize homosexuality and bring about the death penalty.
What's funny is - when it comes to homosexuality, you have a far closer affinity to the Muslims you purport to hate then you will ever admit to.

I don't hate Muslims and I don't hate homosexuals. I do hate sin and as the Bible says, "Hate what is evil, cling to what is good" (Romans 12:9)

And as far as the one example you cite of homosexuals being subject to the death penalty in Uganda, you should first of all know that they dropped the death penalty provision in 2013 in favor of life in prison, something lost on the Ferguson facts-don't-matter Left as they insanely cite this error over and over. But even imprisonment, especially life imprisonment, is wrong headed. Since Uganda is 1/6th Muslim, it's difficult to pin this just on Christians.

Uganda is only 12% Muslim hardly one sixth. They backed down - reluctantly - from the death penalty only because of intense international pressure (something lost on the facts-don't-matter right) As far as "pinning it on Christians" it was American churches' involvement that created the legislation and fanned anti-homosexual feeling in Uganda and other parts of Africa. The point is - when it comes to religion, they don't like homosexuals and it doesn't take much for someone to grab up a Bible and start hammering away. It's getting more civilized but it's still there beneath the surface. Now I'll grant you Christians are far better than Muslims at this point when it comes to tolerance and treatment of homosexuals - but it still not anything to be proud of.

And as a Catholic, I oppose the death penalty anyway.

My point, which you fail to refute, is that you on the Left have this hypocrisy of extolling Islam as a great faith while at the same time ignoring how they crush women's rights and kill homosexuals.

I'm kind of thinking you, on the Right, have this habit of sweeping generalizations that seem to come out of nowhere.

No one is "extolling Islam as a great faith". It's like any other faith - it's got it's good and it's bad. You can support the good and condemn the bad. Malala, the Pakistani girl that was shot by the Taliban religious extremists for her efforts in promoting education for girls is still a Muslim. She hasn't renounced her faith. She fights for change and improvement for girls and for her faith.

Somehow Christians thinking that men should be the head of the household are a bigger threat to you that Muslims who circumcise their women, give them no right to drive, vote, own land, or work a job without their husband's permission....and are subject to honor killings, being buried alive, stoned, and beheaded for all crimes real or imagined. This is how twisted you people are. Christians have proven themselves to be one of the most tolerant world religions, but you'll never give us credit for that because of your hatred for God and the people of God.

Here you are again with this ridiculous sweeping generalization and mixing apples and oranges.

No one thinks that. That's how twisted *you* are.

Christians are the most tolerant? Really? Some are. Some aren't. Some really aren't.

And no. I don't hate Christians either.

And that is the product of an unregenerated heart.

Speak for yourself.

 

[Skylar]

Says you. Muslims think...

Yet, there is absolutely NO EVIDENCE of that whatsoever.

Laughing......so all the hundreds of millions of Muslims, who believe in their book as you believe in yours, who believe in their prophet as you do your messiah, who have faith, who are devout theists...

.......are all delusionally wrong?

Laughing! You can't have it both ways. Every attempt to prove the exclusive truth of your beliefs using religious logic only disproves the validity of theism in general. As by your own reasoning, folks using the *exact* same processes of 'faith' that you are are self deluded.

But keep chopping away at theism. You only prove my point for me.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Now "Faith" is subjective.

Not just 'now'. Always. Its always been subjective. Your faith is defined by you, expressed by you, quantified by you, measured by you, verified by you, authenticated by you.

Your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted.



The Reader should recognize that your Faith is defined by GOD; defined by the reason as established by the laws God created which govern validity and soundness of your reasoning, You express such OBJECTIVELY when you take action which adheres to those OBJECTIVE laws, without regard to how such may or may NOT benefit YOU.

The opposition is a Relativist... subject to a disordered mind, which AXIOMATICALLY rejects objectivity.

You see folks, evil exists SOLELY IN THE SUBJECTIVE and it cannot exist where people reason objectively.

And that is truly all there is to this.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Says you. Muslims think...

Yet, there is absolutely NO EVIDENCE of that whatsoever.

Laughing......so all the hundreds of millions of Muslims...

ROFLMNAO!

Islam is a lie from soup to Mohammad. It exists through murder, mayhem, coercion and deceit. Absent those traits, Islam disappears with Mohammad's death. Absent a reign of incessant terror, Islam dies... Absent the absurdity of its appeal to earthly piety, only to strive for immortal sin... wherein one can upon passing to be with the holy father, to live in eternity with 70 women whose chastity was so critical them on earth that they lived without sexual desire... in order to allow a dead muslim molest them eternally... .

Now that defies what?

It defies REASON... it fails logical validity, it is absent of a soundly reasoned construct. Therefore, it is deceitful..., thus it serves to cloak the truth in darkness, which is what we as well reasoned people, recognize as: Evil.

 

[Skylar]

Now "Faith" is subjective.

Not just 'now'. Always. Its always been subjective. Your faith is defined by you, expressed by you, quantified by you, measured by you, verified by you, authenticated by you.

Your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted.

And now your tell. Whenever your arguments collapse, your logic fails and your assumptions are demonstrated to meaningless claptrap......you summarily and bizarrely declare victory. Its your white flag. We've done this dance before, Keyes. This is always where your argument breaks. And you know it.

You have no choice but to run. Because without my acceptance of your subjective faith as objective truth, you've got nothing. You have no rational basis for your beliefs, you have no logical reason to say, condemn gays as immoral. Even your claims of the objectivity of religion fall to dust, as you can't possibly support them.

And this is why your argument is so fragile and so pathetically unpersuasive. As the basis of your reasoning desperately requires that we already agree with you. If we don't, you've got nothing. No rational basis. No useful reasoning. No logic. No objective evidence. Just your belief....backed by your belief. Watch, I'll show you:

The Reader should recognize that your Faith is defined by GOD; defined by the reason as established by the laws God created which govern validity and soundness of your reasoning, You express such OBJECTIVELY when you take action which adheres to those OBJECTIVE laws, without regard to how such may or may NOT benefit YOU.

That's a testimonial. Not evidence. Not a logical or rational basis of argument. But instead just another recitation of the same beliefs you can't factually back, you can't rationally support, riddled with holes of logic that you can't possibly shore up. If your 'faith' is defined by 'god', then why do other people of faith disagree with you and explicitly contradict you? Did God change his mind and just not tell you?

You can't possibly explain save to insist that all other people of faith are wrong. And only you're right. Which is ridiculously unlikely. As there's nothing that mandates that any of you got it right. Nor can you explain the wild differences in interpretation between say, the Puritans, the Founders and Modern Christians....without falling back on subjective interpretation.

Did God change in 500 years? Or did the subjective interpretation of the meaning of the Bible change with history, culture, society, personal context and simple time? Its clearly the latter. You know it and I know it. But your argument breaks on this simple fact. So you ignore the glorious subjectivity of religion and pretend it doesn't exist.

You fail because you can't make anyone else ignore it.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Now "Faith" is subjective.

Not just 'now'. Always. Its always been subjective. Your faith is defined by you, expressed by you, quantified by you, measured by you, verified by you, authenticated by you.

Your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted.

And now your tell....

And your 2nd concession to the same standing points is duly recognized and summarily accepted.

 

[Skylar]

Says you. Muslims think...

Yet, there is absolutely NO EVIDENCE of that whatsoever.

Laughing......so all the hundreds of millions of Muslims...

ROFLMNAO!

Islam is a lie from soup to Mohammad. It exists through murder, mayhem, coercion and deceit.

So they're all deluded and incorrect?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

I'll put it in picture form so even Leftists can understand it:

Leftists think this:

Is a bigger threat than this:

And this:

And THAT makes them world class jackasses.

Get it now, Coyote?

 

[Skylar]

Now "Faith" is subjective.

Not just 'now'. Always. Its always been subjective. Your faith is defined by you, expressed by you, quantified by you, measured by you, verified by you, authenticated by you.

Your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted.

And now your tell....

And your 2nd concession to the same standing points is duly recognized and summarily accepted.

Its the same tell as before. Your white flag is your summary declaration of victory. As you clearly can't support your claims with logic and reason. So you abandon your every claim, toss your every argument on the midden heap....and run. Refusing to discuss the topic.

As without my acceptance of your subjective faith as objective truth....what possible basis of argument do you have? Nothing. And this is why your argument is so laughably unpersuasive. As it requires that I already agree with you to exist.

 

[bodecea]

You think it is reasonable to claim you are being sexually abused in this thread. Whatever you say drama queen.

So... you couldn't find the courage to learn?

Whatta shame.

Oh well... it's not like it's unexpected. I guess I just allowed myself to hope... despite the chances of it being so slim.

Have you filed a police report yet over the sexual abuse you've suffered in this thread? lol.

One more post on this unwelcomed subject and you'll be ignored.

Please understand it doesn't matter to me... you rarely add anything to a discussion, beyond the usual ego stroke that comes with being palpably superior to another person, but that is the natural result of a discussion with any Leftist... so that means that such is second only to typing, on any political message board.

SOooo... do ya see where we stand, here?

I can see why you would want us to forget your absurd allegations of being sexually abused in this thread. You're overly dramatic and insufferably arrogant. I can assure you I won't lose any sleep if you put me on ignore. Bye Felicia!

Permanent ignore.

What a blessing for mdk.

 

[bodecea]

I'll put it in picture form so even Leftists can understand it:

Leftists think this:

Is a bigger threat than this:

And this:

And THAT makes them world class jackasses.

Get it now, Coyote?

Ah yes...the "thank your lucky stars we don't kill you like the mooslims do so stop your bitching for equal rights" schtick.

 

[mdk]

So... you couldn't find the courage to learn?

Whatta shame.

Oh well... it's not like it's unexpected. I guess I just allowed myself to hope... despite the chances of it being so slim.

Have you filed a police report yet over the sexual abuse you've suffered in this thread? lol.

One more post on this unwelcomed subject and you'll be ignored.

Please understand it doesn't matter to me... you rarely add anything to a discussion, beyond the usual ego stroke that comes with being palpably superior to another person, but that is the natural result of a discussion with any Leftist... so that means that such is second only to typing, on any political message board.

SOooo... do ya see where we stand, here?

I can see why you would want us to forget your absurd allegations of being sexually abused in this thread. You're overly dramatic and insufferably arrogant. I can assure you I won't lose any sleep if you put me on ignore. Bye Felicia!

Permanent ignore.

What a blessing for mdk.

I am all torn up inside. It is the reason I am still awake at the Hour of the Wolf and not the Sugar Bowl.

 

[bodecea]

You use an example of something found in nature that harms others as if it makes sense as a comparison. That shows a fundamental lack, on your part, of discerning that which does no harm and that which does harm others. That is disturbing....even a little sociopathic.

When someone uses nature to defend that practice in humans, it deserves that type of response. If you want to use nature to defend the actions of humans, using all of nature is the only fair way.

Mark

That's kind of like saying if you use the Bible to defend marriage you have to use ALL the bible - the stonings and slavery etc.

Not exactly. The New Testament makes the Old Testament obsolete.

Mark

Tell that to the Dominionists and those who insist we live by the Ten Commandments. The OT is not obsolete, the NT just gives them permission to cherry pick their abominations.

The Old Testament gives no standing orders except for the 10 commandments. Standing orders are those with permanent effect, that is, that all generations are to adhere to them. God gave specific commandments to a specific people at a specific time for a specific reason. Those Christians who attempt to adhere to the whole law today are called "legalists" because they reject the gospel of grace and attempt to return to the outmoded Old Covenant. Really, the only ones saying that antiquated Biblical commandments are valid today are you Leftists, who are hostile to God and see through a shroud of adumbrated darkness, and unregenerated minds. What little you know of the Scriptures, and you know VERY little, you use against the message of the Bible and the message of the cross, confounding the people of God through your twisted regurgitation of what you don't understand.

Which version of the 10 commandments? The Jewish version? The Catholic version? The Protestant version? They are all different.

 

[bodecea]

Tell that to the Dominionists and those who insist we live by the Ten Commandments. The OT is not obsolete, the NT just gives them permission to cherry pick their abominations.

It is fascinating, isn't it? Adultery and sodomy have the exact same penalty in the OT. But you don't often hear for the execution of cheating husbands.

Why? Because it would directly effect too many of those condemning the gays.

Isn't that the truth.

And what about the abomination of eating shellfish? Talk about picking and choosing...

HAHA Jews! Can't eat shrimp! Can't eat lobsters, can't eat conks! Can't eat pork chops, can't eat bacon!

All that changed when Jesus came with the new message of mercy and grace to be placed within the laws or along side of them (pray over your food before you eat it), but it's still wise that we would look at the effects of that stuff upon our bodies (i.e. I ain't a gonna eat no horse or anything that doesn't split at the hoof where as the hoof is cloven instead), because God knows best about these things he had written unto the children of Israel to follow, and these were warnings unto us all for our own good and longevity in life.

So you believe. And yet for the majority of the history of your faith and for at least a dozen centuries after your 'new message', Christians still followed the OT when they wanted to. The puritians killed adulterers and gays. The foudners just gays. Modern American Christians, neither.

Did God's word change in the last 500 years? Or was that just the subjective interpretation of Christians?

Yeah, don't think to hard about that. Most theists don't.

The Puritans forbade Christmas celebrations and killed Quakers too. What a fun bunch of christians.

 

[bodecea]

If the Bible were the only religious book, that might be relevant. But there are thousands of them.

The Bible is the divinely inspired word of God. There is one... with a few dozen iterations interpreting such.

Actually there are many different variations...and many gospels and books that were randomly left out or put in at times, usually based on the political intentions of those doing the picking, choosing and translating.

 

[Skylar]

So... you couldn't find the courage to learn?

Whatta shame.

Oh well... it's not like it's unexpected. I guess I just allowed myself to hope... despite the chances of it being so slim.

Have you filed a police report yet over the sexual abuse you've suffered in this thread? lol.

One more post on this unwelcomed subject and you'll be ignored.

Please understand it doesn't matter to me... you rarely add anything to a discussion, beyond the usual ego stroke that comes with being palpably superior to another person, but that is the natural result of a discussion with any Leftist... so that means that such is second only to typing, on any political message board.

SOooo... do ya see where we stand, here?

I can see why you would want us to forget your absurd allegations of being sexually abused in this thread. You're overly dramatic and insufferably arrogant. I can assure you I won't lose any sleep if you put me on ignore. Bye Felicia!

Permanent ignore.

What a blessing for mdk.

Willful ignorance is pretty much all they have left. As they clearly can't carry their arguments on the basis of logic, reason, or evidence.

Its the folly of all religiously based arguments: they desperately require that you already agree with them in order for their argument to even exist.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Now "Faith" is subjective.

Not just 'now'. Always. Its always been subjective. Your faith is defined by you, expressed by you, quantified by you, measured by you, verified by you, authenticated by you.

Your concession is duly noted and summarily accepted.

And now your tell....

And your 2nd concession to the same standing points is duly recognized and summarily accepted.

Its the same tell as before. Your white flag is your summary declaration of victory. As you clearly can't support your claims with logic and reason. So you abandon your every claim, toss your every argument on the midden heap....and run. Refusing to discuss the topic.

As without my acceptance of your subjective faith as objective truth....what possible basis of argument do you have? Nothing. And this is why your argument is so laughably unpersuasive. As it requires that I already agree with you to exist.

Your 3rd Concession to the same standing point is duly noted and summarily accepted!

(Isn't it cool how strongly they feel that repeating argument which already failed to sustain their 'feelings', will miraculously spare their feelings from their own surrender? It's like Neville Chamberlain's seed somehow spread through the entire Ideological Left.)