The Homosexual Dilemma

[PaintMyHouse]

The faggots, and logic, won. Exactly how long are you little homophobes going to beat this issue, forever?

Probably. Since you and yours beat it forever and worn down Americans finally gave in. So tell me, why didn't you just give up when most Americans didn't agree with you?

Because Equality is an American Value. Homophobia, like yours, is just an American Tradition.

 

[Coyote]

Analysis New Study Did Not Prove That Gay Parents Are Better

I did not say better, I said at no disadvantage. There is no difference in outcomes between the children raised by intact gay families and intact straight families.

Uh huh....

'They took turns raping me': New claims of child sex abuse revealed as gay couple accused of molesting two of their 9 adopted children withdraw guilty plea and decide to go to trial

Read more: Gay couple accused of molesting two of their 9 adopted children withdraw guilty plea and decide to go on trial to fight allegations Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

You can always find examples of pedo abuse among both hetero and homo.

And yet in the short time that gay couples have been adopting, several of these horror stories have popped up. Statistics are already coming out indicating that a child is far more likely to be abused by a gay couple than their heterosexual counterparts. Since homo marriage and adoption are relatively new, the swift manner in which these horror stories are popping up doesn't set a promising trend.

Of course they do, because adoption by gay couples is in the public light. Yet look at all the horror stories about adoption by hetero couples. All it says is you will have bad players in both groups and there needs to be some means of weeding them out.

What statistics?

 

[80zephyr]

Limiting it to two is discriminatory. I mean, why can't a bi-sexual marry both the man and the woman he/she loves?

Mark

Because limiting ALL partnerships to one partner at a time is not discriminatory.

Now if someone were to propose that everyone EXCEPT Christians could marry two partners at a time, that would be discriminatory.

The simplest social rules are what our constitution demands. Interests deemed "Special" by the private sector should come as no surprise while interests deemed "Special" by any level of government is an abomination.

Treat all partnerships the same. Easy-squeezy.

Requiring marriage to a partner of the opposite sex was also applied equally, regardless of race, gender, or even sexual orientation.

Take that argument a step back in history: Requiring marriage to a partner of the same race was also applied equally.

Nope. Any man couldn't marry any woman. Now, they can. And since marriage is for reproduction, all discrimination stopped after racial intermarriage was allowed.

Mark

 

[Seawytch]

Analysis New Study Did Not Prove That Gay Parents Are Better

I did not say better, I said at no disadvantage. There is no difference in outcomes between the children raised by intact gay families and intact straight families.

Uh huh....

'They took turns raping me': New claims of child sex abuse revealed as gay couple accused of molesting two of their 9 adopted children withdraw guilty plea and decide to go to trial

Read more: Gay couple accused of molesting two of their 9 adopted children withdraw guilty plea and decide to go on trial to fight allegations Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

You can always find examples of pedo abuse among both hetero and homo.

And yet in the short time that gay couples have been adopting, several of these horror stories have popped up. Statistics are already coming out indicating that a child is far more likely to be abused by a gay couple than their heterosexual counterparts. Since homo marriage and adoption are relatively new, the swift manner in which these horror stories are popping up doesn't set a promising trend.

not surprising since almost all homosexuals were abused as children themselves.

This is another falsehood spread by anti gay bigots.

From the American Psychiatric Association:

What causes Homosexuality/Heterosexuality/Bisexuality?
No one knows what causes heterosexuality, homosexuality, or bisexuality. Homosexuality was once thought to be the result of troubled family dynamics or faulty psychological development. Those assumptions are now understood to have been based on misinformation and prejudice. Currently there is a renewed interest in searching for biological etiologies for homosexuality. However, to date there are no replicated scientific studies supporting any specific biological etiology for homosexuality. Similarly, no specific psychosocial or family dynamic cause for homosexuality has been identified, including histories of childhood sexual abuse. Sexual abuse does not appear to be more prevalent in children who grow up to identify as gay, lesbian, or bisexual, than in children who identify as heterosexual.

 

[ninja007]

Analysis New Study Did Not Prove That Gay Parents Are Better

I did not say better, I said at no disadvantage. There is no difference in outcomes between the children raised by intact gay families and intact straight families.

Uh huh....

'They took turns raping me': New claims of child sex abuse revealed as gay couple accused of molesting two of their 9 adopted children withdraw guilty plea and decide to go to trial

Read more: Gay couple accused of molesting two of their 9 adopted children withdraw guilty plea and decide to go on trial to fight allegations Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

You can always find examples of pedo abuse among both hetero and homo.

And yet in the short time that gay couples have been adopting, several of these horror stories have popped up. Statistics are already coming out indicating that a child is far more likely to be abused by a gay couple than their heterosexual counterparts. Since homo marriage and adoption are relatively new, the swift manner in which these horror stories are popping up doesn't set a promising trend.

Of course they do, because adoption by gay couples is in the public light. Yet look at all the horror stories about adoption by hetero couples. All it says is you will have bad players in both groups and there needs to be some means of weeding them out.

What statistics?

of course, because heterosexuals do 95% of the adopting. duh.

 

[80zephyr]

The faggots, and logic, won. Exactly how long are you little homophobes going to beat this issue, forever?

Probably. Since you and yours beat it forever and worn down Americans finally gave in. So tell me, why didn't you just give up when most Americans didn't agree with you?

Because Equality is an American Value. Homophobia, like yours, is just an American Tradition.

Typical leftist. Disagree, and out comes a label. Won't work for me, I won't be shouted down for being right.

Mark

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Analysis New Study Did Not Prove That Gay Parents Are Better

I did not say better, I said at no disadvantage. There is no difference in outcomes between the children raised by intact gay families and intact straight families.

Uh huh....

'They took turns raping me': New claims of child sex abuse revealed as gay couple accused of molesting two of their 9 adopted children withdraw guilty plea and decide to go to trial

Read more: Gay couple accused of molesting two of their 9 adopted children withdraw guilty plea and decide to go on trial to fight allegations Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

You can always find examples of pedo abuse among both hetero and homo.

And yet in the short time that gay couples have been adopting, several of these horror stories have popped up. Statistics are already coming out indicating that a child is far more likely to be abused by a gay couple than their heterosexual counterparts. Since homo marriage and adoption are relatively new, the swift manner in which these horror stories are popping up doesn't set a promising trend.

Of course they do, because adoption by gay couples is in the public light. Yet look at all the horror stories about adoption by hetero couples. All it says is you will have bad players in both groups and there needs to be some means of weeding them out.

What statistics?

Homosexuals represent less than 3% but are involved in nearly 1/3 of all sex abuse cases against children

MALE HOMOSEXUALS COMMIT A DISPROPORTIONATE NUMBER OF CHILD SEX ABUSE CASES
Homosexual apologists admit that some homosexuals sexually molest children, but they deny that homosexuals are more likely to commit such offenses. After all, they argue, the majority of child molestation cases are heterosexual in nature. While this is correct in terms of absolute numbers, this argument ignores the fact that homosexuals comprise only a very small percentage of the population.

The evidence indicates that homosexual men molest boys at rates grossly disproportionate to the rates at which heterosexual men molest girls. To demonstrate this it is necessary to connect several statistics related to the problem of child sex abuse: 1) men are almost always the perpetrator; 2) up to one-third or more of child sex abuse cases are committed against boys; 3) less than three percent of the population are homosexuals. Thus, a tiny percentage of the population (homosexual men), commit one-third or more of the cases of child sexual molestation.

Men Account for Almost All Sexual Abuse of Children Cases
An essay on adult sex offenders in the book Sexual Offending Against Children reported:"It is widely believed that the vast majority of sexual abuse is perpetrated by males and that female sex offenders only account for a tiny proportion of offences. Indeed, with 3,000 adult male sex offenders in prison in England and Wales at any one time, the corresponding figure for female sex offenders is 12!"[1]

Family Research Council

 

[ninja007]

I did not say better, I said at no disadvantage. There is no difference in outcomes between the children raised by intact gay families and intact straight families.

Uh huh....

'They took turns raping me': New claims of child sex abuse revealed as gay couple accused of molesting two of their 9 adopted children withdraw guilty plea and decide to go to trial

Read more: Gay couple accused of molesting two of their 9 adopted children withdraw guilty plea and decide to go on trial to fight allegations Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

You can always find examples of pedo abuse among both hetero and homo.

And yet in the short time that gay couples have been adopting, several of these horror stories have popped up. Statistics are already coming out indicating that a child is far more likely to be abused by a gay couple than their heterosexual counterparts. Since homo marriage and adoption are relatively new, the swift manner in which these horror stories are popping up doesn't set a promising trend.

not surprising since almost all homosexuals were abused as children themselves.

This is another falsehood spread by anti gay bigots.

From the American Psychiatric Association:

What causes Homosexuality/Heterosexuality/Bisexuality?
No one knows what causes heterosexuality, homosexuality, or bisexuality. Homosexuality was once thought to be the result of troubled family dynamics or faulty psychological development. Those assumptions are now understood to have been based on misinformation and prejudice. Currently there is a renewed interest in searching for biological etiologies for homosexuality. However, to date there are no replicated scientific studies supporting any specific biological etiology for homosexuality. Similarly, no specific psychosocial or family dynamic cause for homosexuality has been identified, including histories of childhood sexual abuse. Sexual abuse does not appear to be more prevalent in children who grow up to identify as gay, lesbian, or bisexual, than in children who identify as heterosexual.

b.s. its clear as day. An abused child has more chance of becoming gay because they were abused by a same sex parent- they get confused and depressed and angry; then they grow up and inflict that pain on their child, cycle never stops. They try to recreate it also with their homo partner. One is the alpha, one is the lesser.

 

[80zephyr]

Analysis New Study Did Not Prove That Gay Parents Are Better

I did not say better, I said at no disadvantage. There is no difference in outcomes between the children raised by intact gay families and intact straight families.

Uh huh....

'They took turns raping me': New claims of child sex abuse revealed as gay couple accused of molesting two of their 9 adopted children withdraw guilty plea and decide to go to trial

Read more: Gay couple accused of molesting two of their 9 adopted children withdraw guilty plea and decide to go on trial to fight allegations Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

You can always find examples of pedo abuse among both hetero and homo.

And yet in the short time that gay couples have been adopting, several of these horror stories have popped up. Statistics are already coming out indicating that a child is far more likely to be abused by a gay couple than their heterosexual counterparts. Since homo marriage and adoption are relatively new, the swift manner in which these horror stories are popping up doesn't set a promising trend.

Of course they do, because adoption by gay couples is in the public light. Yet look at all the horror stories about adoption by hetero couples. All it says is you will have bad players in both groups and there needs to be some means of weeding them out.

What statistics?

Lets say it is happening. Do you really believe anyone in America will own up to it with statistics, or will they hide it like the church hid pedophile priests?

Mark

 

[PaintMyHouse]

The faggots, and logic, won. Exactly how long are you little homophobes going to beat this issue, forever?

Probably. Since you and yours beat it forever and worn down Americans finally gave in. So tell me, why didn't you just give up when most Americans didn't agree with you?

Because Equality is an American Value. Homophobia, like yours, is just an American Tradition.

Typical leftist. Disagree, and out comes a label. Won't work for me, I won't be shouted down for being right.

You aren't right dummy, and the courts, and now the American people, grew up a bit and agree with me. So now what, you scream but you're all wrong while you get left in the past?

 

[ninja007]

THINK. child is abused by same sex parent; gets confused of their sexuality, grows up wanting to explore, fix that terrible experience from their childhood and repeat it. NOT that hard to figure out.

 

[Seawytch]

Limiting it to two is discriminatory. I mean, why can't a bi-sexual marry both the man and the woman he/she loves?

Mark

Because limiting ALL partnerships to one partner at a time is not discriminatory.

Now if someone were to propose that everyone EXCEPT Christians could marry two partners at a time, that would be discriminatory.

The simplest social rules are what our constitution demands. Interests deemed "Special" by the private sector should come as no surprise while interests deemed "Special" by any level of government is an abomination.

Treat all partnerships the same. Easy-squeezy.

Requiring marriage to a partner of the opposite sex was also applied equally, regardless of race, gender, or even sexual orientation.

Take that argument a step back in history: Requiring marriage to a partner of the same race was also applied equally.

Nope. Any man couldn't marry any woman. Now, they can. And since marriage is for reproduction, all discrimination stopped after racial intermarriage was allowed.

Mark

Right...we ended marriage discrimination based on race in 1967 (but the prevailing argument that it wasn't discrimination held out for 85 years) and now we are ending it based on gender in 2014-15. I don't want to marry a man just as Mildred Loving didn't want to marry a black person. The discrimination is exactly the same, the justification of the bigots is exactly the same...only the targets have changed. The outcomes will be the same though...the bigots lose.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

I did not say better, I said at no disadvantage. There is no difference in outcomes between the children raised by intact gay families and intact straight families.

Uh huh....

'They took turns raping me': New claims of child sex abuse revealed as gay couple accused of molesting two of their 9 adopted children withdraw guilty plea and decide to go to trial

Read more: Gay couple accused of molesting two of their 9 adopted children withdraw guilty plea and decide to go on trial to fight allegations Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

You can always find examples of pedo abuse among both hetero and homo.

And yet in the short time that gay couples have been adopting, several of these horror stories have popped up. Statistics are already coming out indicating that a child is far more likely to be abused by a gay couple than their heterosexual counterparts. Since homo marriage and adoption are relatively new, the swift manner in which these horror stories are popping up doesn't set a promising trend.

Of course they do, because adoption by gay couples is in the public light. Yet look at all the horror stories about adoption by hetero couples. All it says is you will have bad players in both groups and there needs to be some means of weeding them out.

What statistics?

Homosexuals represent less than 3% but are involved in nearly 1/3 of all sex abuse cases against children

MALE HOMOSEXUALS COMMIT A DISPROPORTIONATE NUMBER OF CHILD SEX ABUSE CASES
Homosexual apologists admit that some homosexuals sexually molest children, but they deny that homosexuals are more likely to commit such offenses. After all, they argue, the majority of child molestation cases are heterosexual in nature. While this is correct in terms of absolute numbers, this argument ignores the fact that homosexuals comprise only a very small percentage of the population.

The evidence indicates that homosexual men molest boys at rates grossly disproportionate to the rates at which heterosexual men molest girls. To demonstrate this it is necessary to connect several statistics related to the problem of child sex abuse: 1) men are almost always the perpetrator; 2) up to one-third or more of child sex abuse cases are committed against boys; 3) less than three percent of the population are homosexuals. Thus, a tiny percentage of the population (homosexual men), commit one-third or more of the cases of child sexual molestation.

Men Account for Almost All Sexual Abuse of Children Cases
An essay on adult sex offenders in the book Sexual Offending Against Children reported:"It is widely believed that the vast majority of sexual abuse is perpetrated by males and that female sex offenders only account for a tiny proportion of offences. Indeed, with 3,000 adult male sex offenders in prison in England and Wales at any one time, the corresponding figure for female sex offenders is 12!"[1]

Family Research Council

It doesn't ******* matter, it's not about the children.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

THINK. child is abused by same sex parent; gets confused of their sexuality, grows up wanting to explore, fix that terrible experience from their childhood and repeat it. NOT that hard to figure out.

It doesn't ******* matter, it's not about the children.

 

[Nyvin]

Uh huh....

'They took turns raping me': New claims of child sex abuse revealed as gay couple accused of molesting two of their 9 adopted children withdraw guilty plea and decide to go to trial

Read more: Gay couple accused of molesting two of their 9 adopted children withdraw guilty plea and decide to go on trial to fight allegations Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

You can always find examples of pedo abuse among both hetero and homo.

And yet in the short time that gay couples have been adopting, several of these horror stories have popped up. Statistics are already coming out indicating that a child is far more likely to be abused by a gay couple than their heterosexual counterparts. Since homo marriage and adoption are relatively new, the swift manner in which these horror stories are popping up doesn't set a promising trend.

not surprising since almost all homosexuals were abused as children themselves.

This is another falsehood spread by anti gay bigots.

From the American Psychiatric Association:

What causes Homosexuality/Heterosexuality/Bisexuality?
No one knows what causes heterosexuality, homosexuality, or bisexuality. Homosexuality was once thought to be the result of troubled family dynamics or faulty psychological development. Those assumptions are now understood to have been based on misinformation and prejudice. Currently there is a renewed interest in searching for biological etiologies for homosexuality. However, to date there are no replicated scientific studies supporting any specific biological etiology for homosexuality. Similarly, no specific psychosocial or family dynamic cause for homosexuality has been identified, including histories of childhood sexual abuse. Sexual abuse does not appear to be more prevalent in children who grow up to identify as gay, lesbian, or bisexual, than in children who identify as heterosexual.

b.s. its clear as day. An abused child has more chance of becoming gay because they were abused by a same sex parent- they get confused and depressed and angry; then they grow up and inflict that pain on their child, cycle never stops. They try to recreate it also with their homo partner. One is the alpha, one is the lesser.

There is no scientific evidence to back this up at all.

 

[Seawytch]

Just an "FYI" to folks just reading and lurking...the Family Research Council is not a credible source for anything resembling a scientific study. Neither is NARTH or Focus on the Family. I think it's apparent you can dismiss anything from "looneybird".

 

[Coyote]

No it does not, and few would argue it does. Rights are not unlimited but their application evolves as society evolves and becomes more inclusive. Basic rights were denied to both women and blacks in a way that was NOT considered discrimminatory until recent times.

What is the right in question? It's the right to marry.

Let's stop right there because your train just went off the tracks. Who is being denied the right to marry? It's only tortured Leftist "logic" that says if somebody can't marry whoever they want, a person of the same gender, a brother, aunt, or a horse or a goat, that they're being denied the right to marry. What kind of nonsense is that?

No one is arguing for an unlimited right to marry - strawman.

No culture in human history has said it's ok to marry whoever one wants. There's always been taboos for the protection and perpetuation of a strong society. So no, the right to marry is not being denied just because you can't marry whoever you want. And trying to read that "right" into the 14th Amendment, to marry whoever you want, flies off the tether of any legal precedent.

The right to marry is between two consenting adults (not incestual). Expanding that right to same sex couples does not weaken society in any way.

"Between two consenting adults", see you're already applying your own arbitrary opinion on what criteria should decide who somebody can marry. And you're drifting away from the legal argument because you don't have on that merits consideration. You insist that gay "marriage" doesn't weaken society, but again, it's just an opinion. And if these things are decided by opinion, which they should, then most Americans disagree with you and have passed laws requiring marriage be between a man and a woman. Hence the state marriage laws.

I stated at the beginning that no rights are unlimited, including marriage and that it can not infringe on the rights or well being of others or the public. That's pretty much the same with all rights, it's not my arbritrary opinion.

Children can't consent and can be harmed.
Animals can't consent and can be harmed.
Incest potentially affects public welfare when children are produced.

Legally - marriage is a right. Legally - it's definition is open to challange. There is no difference between denying marriage equality based on race and denying marriage equality based on gender. Why should rights be decided upon by public opinion? That is very dangerous.

What I want to know is why the Left is so terrified of democracy? If you think you're right, prevail upon your fellow man to convince them. But using Leftist hack ideologue judges to legislate from the bench sans any sound legal argument is the path you've chosen and the reason that people are starting to hate gay people like they never have before in this country.

We have a Constitution to protect us from the extremes of democracy and prevent mob rule. It was not public opinion that gained blacks their civil rights or the women the vote - it was ultimately the courts. Public opinion lies in the lynch mobs as readily as it does the concerted efforts to change legislation.

I would never intrust my rights to public opinion.

 

[80zephyr]

So, if limiting marriage to two is not discriminatory, then so is limiting marriage to one man and one woman. After all, everyone would live under the same law.

I mean, if we use your logic as a basis for our actions. Treat all partnerships the same.

Mark

It's about treating all partnerships the same.

If everyone can only marry one person - there is no discrimmination.

If everyone BUT flat footed people can marry more than one partner at a time -- then it is discrimminatory.

Like I said, I am treating them all the same, so there is no discrimination.

Mark

I added to my post but you answered before I finished.

Here are the possible marriage options - consenting adults only.
a. Men can marry women.
b. Women can marry women.
c. Men can marry men.

All can marry only one partner - thus no discrimmination.

If we only allow a. - then we are discrimminating against b and c.

Simply not true. If everyone is treated the same, there is no discrimination. If the law changed where a black could only marry a white, there would be no discrimination.

Everyone is treated equally.

Mark

Laws can be discriminatory in themselves - the example you gave above is one.

Laws should be as broad and inclusive as they can be without endangering people or the public. That's how I see it.

You can't allow adults to marry children - it's clearly damaging to children and children can not legally consent or understand the ramifications of what is happening to them. Incest is another area where there is potential damage if they choose to have children. But on the issue of gender there is no damage to society or to the individuals themselves.

Marriage should be between two consenting human adults - that's broad, inclusive and non-discrimminatory.

Who is being discrimminated against there? No one.

The next argument would be polygamy. I personally don't care if a someone chooses multiple spouses - to me, it's an individual choice between consenting adults. But I've heard reasonable arguments against it as well but that usually occurs in other countries.

The laws for marriage were as broad as they logically could be. A man is not "married" to another man, so there was no discrimination.

Mark

 

[Coyote]

BS. Every study shows it is worse for children with gay parents.

No, they don't, but you need them to because otherwise you are just another run-of-the-mill ****** hater. It's all about the children you say, only it isn't, it's about your fear of the dreaded "others"...

i don't fear the gayz, only for the children who grow up confused and pressured to be gay when they are straight.

Funny thing that, it doesn't seem to be the case. Loving parents accept what their children are.

Gay Parents As Good As Straight Ones BU Today Boston University

gay parents will be more likely to sex. abuse, as they were sex. abused themselves.

Do you have any unbiased sources that prove this claim?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

I did not say better, I said at no disadvantage. There is no difference in outcomes between the children raised by intact gay families and intact straight families.

Uh huh....

'They took turns raping me': New claims of child sex abuse revealed as gay couple accused of molesting two of their 9 adopted children withdraw guilty plea and decide to go to trial

Read more: Gay couple accused of molesting two of their 9 adopted children withdraw guilty plea and decide to go on trial to fight allegations Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

You can always find examples of pedo abuse among both hetero and homo.

And yet in the short time that gay couples have been adopting, several of these horror stories have popped up. Statistics are already coming out indicating that a child is far more likely to be abused by a gay couple than their heterosexual counterparts. Since homo marriage and adoption are relatively new, the swift manner in which these horror stories are popping up doesn't set a promising trend.

Of course they do, because adoption by gay couples is in the public light. Yet look at all the horror stories about adoption by hetero couples. All it says is you will have bad players in both groups and there needs to be some means of weeding them out.

What statistics?

Lets say it is happening. Do you really believe anyone in America will own up to it with statistics, or will they hide it like the church hid pedophile priests?

Mark

I've written more in length about how sexual child abuse is hidden because human nature doesn't want to admit it happens. What if the Catholic Church acted like the ****** brigade? What if instead of admitting we screwed up, that kids are being abused by priests and offending priests are being protected, we tried to shout down every accusation, point out that kids are also being molested in Baptist churches or Jehovah Witness and insist we don't have a problem with abusing children?

But the Catholic Church did not act like the ****** brigade. We owned up and took responsibility and made changes and now children are safer in the Catholic Church than most other sectors of society.

As long as the ****** brigade screams and hollers, kicks and stomps, and denies the children that are abused by gay couples, the problem will go on. They won't have a productive discussion of the problem complete with strategies to stop it from happening further. The Catholic Church developed a culture that protects children and notifies authorities if anything wrong happens. The gays have developed a culture of secrecy, denial, and silence that will ensure the perpetuity of sexual child abuse.